To all NON-KSU fans...who would you have hired?

[pissclams]

My only hope is that Frank Martin is better at coaching than you are at making a point.

[DrunkoMcGee]

My only hope is that Frank Martin is better at coaching than you are at making a point.

I still have not gotten one response as to how Frank Martin is qualified to be a Big 12 head coach. 

0-37 in high school certainly isn't good.

[michigancat]

You really need to move on to argument number two.

When all you do is repeat Jamie Dixon and Jose Juan Barea over and over again, it's hard to move on to other arguments.

I've pulled out Rod Barnes, Abdul Herrera, asked who the "qualified" coaches had recruited, noted that KSU ran a two week coaching search one year ago, discussed the value of the preservation of the recruiting class, asked for coaches in similar situations that have failed, cited Greg Doyel praising Martin's recruiting, and I still have Andy Kennedy in my hip pocket.

You have:

Short search
Resume
Barea isn't good

[michigancat]

I still have not gotten one response as to how Frank Martin is qualified to be a Big 12 head coach. 

I don't think Martin would be qualified if he wasn't able to guarantee next year's recruiting class - I've said that many times. It may shock you to hear this, but coaches can only do so much.  You kind of need players to do well.  Martin will have the most talented KSU team in at least twenty years...I'll trade that for some lame-ass mid-major any day of the week.

Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12.  At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history.  Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him.  Why is that so hard to understand?

Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter?  Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern.  I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.

Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.

*Slam dunk hire

Does this count as 51?

[pissclams]

My only hope is that Frank Martin is better at coaching than you are at making a point.

I still have not gotten one response as to how Frank Martin is qualified to be a Big 12 head coach. 

0-37 in high school certainly isn't good.

Read the words under my avatar, copy & paste them under yours.  You win.

BTW Rusty, I'm a huge Stingarees fan myself.

[DrunkoMcGee]

You really need to move on to argument number two.

When all you do is repeat Jamie Dixon and Jose Juan Barea over and over again, it's hard to move on to other arguments.

I've pulled out Rod Barnes, Abdul Herrera, asked who the "qualified" coaches had recruited, noted that KSU ran a two week coaching search one year ago, discussed the value of the preservation of the recruiting class, asked for coaches in similar situations that have failed, cited Greg Doyel praising Martin's recruiting, and I still have Andy Kennedy in my hip pocket.

You have:

Short search
Resume
Barea isn't good

Rod Barnes has nothing to do with Frank Martin.  Some guy probably won the lottery last week, it doesn't mean I'm going to win it tomorrow.

Addul Herrera apparently is a good talent, but he has never played in 2 seasons at Cincy and according to you, Cincy was fighting Jim Woolridge for his services.  Maybe the good programs across the country knew something that Frank Martin didn't.  

KSU ran a two week coaching search last year and hired Bob Huggins.  The program is in better shape today than it was a year ago, they ran a 20 hour coaching search, and decided to hire a complete unknown.  Who do you think was the better hire?

Frank Martin wasn't the only way to keep the recruiting class together.  You weren't going to let guys out of LOIs, so anybody that left KSU was going to be sitting out a year.  If an established coach is hired, you have at least a 50/50 shot at keeping the class in tact.  If Hill is kept as an assistant with the new hire, then the chances of keeping the class together are the same as they were when you hired Martin.  Apparently, this option was never explored.

Greg Doyel praised Martin as a recruiter.  Many other writers have criticized Martin for various things.  Is Doyle better than any of the other writers.  Is a guy really a great recruiter when his best recruits are Barea, Colon, and Herrera?  

Andy Kennedy has about as much to do with Frank Martin as Rod Barnes and Jamie Dixon do.  Only Kennedy has yet to make the NCAA tourney as a coach and he was let go at Cincy.  If you are going to use Rod Barnes as a shining example of assistants making the jump, then I guess what Sean Sutton did at OSU this year with 2 of the better players in the Big 12 on his roster is analogous to the situation at KSU and a predictor of what you can expect next season.  Enjoy the NIT again.

Do you have anything else Rusty?  Please tell me you have something better than what you said above.  Saving Andy Kennedy in the hip pocket probably wasn't as strong as you had hoped.

[michigancat]

Rod Barnes has nothing to do with Frank Martin.  Some guy probably won the lottery last week, it doesn't mean I'm going to win it tomorrow.

Andy Kennedy has about as much to do with Frank Martin as Rod Barnes and Jamie Dixon do.  Only Kennedy has yet to make the NCAA tourney as a coach and he was let go at Cincy.  If you are going to use Rod Barnes as a shining example of assistants making the jump, then I guess what Sean Sutton did at OSU this year with 2 of the better players in the Big 12 on his roster is analogous to the situation at KSU and a predictor of what you can expect next season.  Enjoy the NIT again.

In other words, the fact that the "lottery" struck three times in Kennedy, Barnes, and Dixon has nothing to do with the argument that "the odds are against Martin", but your faceless "qualified" arguments are? 

BTW, Sean Sutton is definitely valid comparison to Martin (except he was "more qualified" than guys like Roy, Dixon, Izzo, and Crean).  That makes three successes, one "failure".  What are the stats on the lottery?

Addul Herrera apparently is a good talent, but he has never played in 2 seasons at Cincy and according to you, Cincy was fighting Jim Woolridge for his services.  Maybe the good programs across the country knew something that Frank Martin didn't. 

Ohio State, Illinois, Miami, St. Johns, Alabama, Auburn, and Xavier also offered.

Greg Doyel praised Martin as a recruiter.  Many other writers have criticized Martin for various things.  Is Doyle better than any of the other writers.  Is a guy really a great recruiter when his best recruits are Barea, Colon, and Herrera?

Under the circumstances, I'd say that's a decent list.  I don't know everyone he recruited to Northeastern, because scout's records don't go back far enough.  BTW, nothing Martin has been criticized for have anything to do with whether or not he'll be successful...his recruiting ability will.

[sonofdaxjones]

You guys are honestly comparing Martin to Roy?  GMAB.

More like Quin Snyder.

Do you always have to be such a dumbass??

[DrunkoMcGee]

Rod Barnes has nothing to do with Frank Martin.  Some guy probably won the lottery last week, it doesn't mean I'm going to win it tomorrow.

Andy Kennedy has about as much to do with Frank Martin as Rod Barnes and Jamie Dixon do.  Only Kennedy has yet to make the NCAA tourney as a coach and he was let go at Cincy.  If you are going to use Rod Barnes as a shining example of assistants making the jump, then I guess what Sean Sutton did at OSU this year with 2 of the better players in the Big 12 on his roster is analogous to the situation at KSU and a predictor of what you can expect next season.  Enjoy the NIT again.

In other words, the fact that the "lottery" struck three times in Kennedy, Barnes, and Dixon has nothing to do with the argument that "the odds are against Martin", but your faceless "qualified" arguments are? 

BTW, Sean Sutton is definitely valid comparison to Martin (except he was "more qualified" than guys like Roy, Dixon, Izzo, and Crean).  That makes three successes, one "failure".  What are the stats on the lottery?

You count Kennedy as a success?  OK, I guess your definition of success is different than mine.  Mike Davis is another example of where it failed long term.  Hell, Barnes didn't even work out long term.  He took short term success at Ole Miss, left for what he thought to be a better job, and then was horrible.  So basically, you are left with Jamie Dixon. 

As for Barea, Colon, and Herrera being a decent list, again, your definition of decent is different than mine.  Only of those three has shown the ability to be a decent college basketball player and it's Barea at Northeastern.  Hitting .333 in recruiting isn't going to get it done in the Big 12. 

[michigancat]

You count Kennedy as a success?  OK, I guess your definition of success is different than mine.  Mike Davis is another example of where it failed long term. 

Kennedy was a tremendous success under the circumstances.  He had an NAIA transfer starting, yet was within a ridiculous McNamara performance of the NCAA tournament.

Bob Knight got fired...things are TOTALLY different when the predecessor gets fired.

You're confusing Barnes with Evans.

As for Barea, Colon, and Herrera being a decent list, again, your definition of decent is different than mine.  Only of those three has shown the ability to be a decent college basketball player and it's Barea at Northeastern.  Hitting .333 in recruiting isn't going to get it done in the Big 12. 

OK, who has Mark Fox recruited?  Chris Lowrey?  Mark Turgeon?  Dave Rose?

Try to use real names and not some anonymous "top 100" BS from goshockers.com.

[DrunkoMcGee]

You count Kennedy as a success?  OK, I guess your definition of success is different than mine.  Mike Davis is another example of where it failed long term. 

Kennedy was a tremendous success under the circumstances.  He had an NAIA transfer starting, yet was within a ridiculous McNamara performance of the NCAA tournament.

Bob Knight got fired...things are TOTALLY different when the predecessor gets fired.

You're confusing Barnes with Evans.

As for Barea, Colon, and Herrera being a decent list, again, your definition of decent is different than mine.  Only of those three has shown the ability to be a decent college basketball player and it's Barea at Northeastern.  Hitting .333 in recruiting isn't going to get it done in the Big 12. 

OK, who has Mark Fox recruited?  Chris Lowrey?  Mark Turgeon?  Dave Rose?

Try to use real names and not some anonymous "top 100" BS from goshockers.com.

You're right, I confuese Barnes and Evans.  Barnes got fired from Ole Miss so he was not the long term answer.  I'm not sure why you think this helps your argument.

As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter.  They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you.  Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada.  Tatum is a very good player at SIU.  Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s.  You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there?  I don't know much about Dave Rose. 

[yosh]

LOL @ "long term"

[michigancat]

You're right, I confuese Barnes and Evans.  Barnes got fired from Ole Miss so he was not the long term answer.  I'm not sure why you think this helps your argument.

I said I'd be thrilled if Martin has three 20 win seasons and a national coach of the year in his first four, like Barnes did.

As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter.  They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you.  Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada.  Tatum is a very good player at SIU.  Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s.  You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there?  I don't know much about Dave Rose. 

In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?

[DrunkoMcGee]

As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter.  They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you.  Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada.  Tatum is a very good player at SIU.  Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s.  You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there?  I don't know much about Dave Rose. 

In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?

Absolutely not.  He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name).  Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs. 

[michigancat]

As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter.  They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you.  Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada.  Tatum is a very good player at SIU.  Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s.  You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there?  I don't know much about Dave Rose. 

In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?

Absolutely not.  He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name).  Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs. 

If you can count recruits that weren't directly tied to the coach (Fazekas, Kemp...heck, Tatum was a Painter recruit) I get to count Beasley, Walker, Sutton, etc.

Martin is the better recruiter.

[DrunkoMcGee]

As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter.  They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you.  Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada.  Tatum is a very good player at SIU.  Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s.  You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there?  I don't know much about Dave Rose. 

In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?

Absolutely not.  He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name).  Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs. 

If you can count recruits that weren't directly tied to the coach (Fazekas, Kemp...heck, Tatum was a Painter recruit) I get to count Beasley, Walker, Sutton, etc.

Martin is the better recruiter.

I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players.  I know enough about KSU's recruiting that Frank Martin had nothing to do with Beasley and very little to do with Walker and Sutton.  Beasley's quote was that he would go to a Juco if that was where Dalonte Hill was coaching.  Walker was a Huggins guy all along.

[michigancat]

I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players.

Tatum wasn't even a Chris Lowery recruit.

The fact that you don't know anything about Turgeon's or Rose's recruits pretty much confirms that they've never recruited anyone as good as Barea.

Martin = Matt Painter?

[kst8cat]

As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter.  They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you.  Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada.  Tatum is a very good player at SIU.  Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s.  You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there?  I don't know much about Dave Rose. 

In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?

Absolutely not.  He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name).  Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs. 

If you can count recruits that weren't directly tied to the coach (Fazekas, Kemp...heck, Tatum was a Painter recruit) I get to count Beasley, Walker, Sutton, etc.

Martin is the better recruiter.

I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players.  I know enough about KSU's recruiting that Frank Martin had nothing to do with Beasley and very little to do with Walker and Sutton.  Beasley's quote was that he would go to a Juco if that was where Dalonte Hill was coaching.  Walker was a Huggins guy all along.

Walker said it was important to him to have continuity in the program and that he would strongly consider a transfer if we brought in an outsider.  I think everybody involved in the program wants continuity for the upcoming year to be successful.  Everyone involved with the progam seems to think Martin was qualified and will make a great coach, and I have no reason to doubt that based on my hearing him speak during postgame interviews and based on other good things I have heard from those inside the program.  Plus Brad Underwood was promoted to assistant, and I think everyone agrees that was a good hire.  He lowered himself to DOBO last year just to be at K-State.  He was a Florida Juco head coach before that.

[DrunkoMcGee]

I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players.

Tatum wasn't even a Chris Lowery recruit.

The fact that you don't know anything about Turgeon's or Rose's recruits pretty much confirms that they've never recruited anyone as good as Barea.

Martin = Matt Painter?

Sorry, I don't follow SIU, Nevada, WSU, or BYU recruiting at all.  I know the coaches have recruited good enough players to win at a high level.    

Recruiting one guy doesn't make somebody a stud recruiter.  Barea was good.  He hasn't recruited anybody since then that has had an impact at the college level.  He's only made one NCAA tourney as an assistant.  There is not a real big history of success with Frank Martin.  Hell, even the high school success was tainted and wiped out of the record books.