KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: dr00d on February 20, 2007, 10:39:41 AM
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I have and damn is it long....that was my first impression anyways :D
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post it.
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yeah.... I have no idea what you're talking about.
Post it.
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I can't confirm it is legit, but by the same token, I see no reason why it isn't legit.
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Take it for what it is worth...no idea if this is for real.
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From: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "Dick Luman" <[email protected]>, "Alan Rahe" <[email protected]>, "Bob Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Brad Seib" <[email protected]>, "Brian Biggs" <[email protected]>, "Chris Jarvis" <[email protected]>, "Cynthia Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Dirk Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Don Dumler" <[email protected]>, "Gail Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Greg Besler" <[email protected]>, "Jan Burnette" <[email protected]>, "Jarrett Grosdidier" <[email protected]>, "Kasia Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Kirk Coen" <[email protected]>, "Lee Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Lisa Coen" <[email protected]>, "Mitch Running" <[email protected]>, "Rene' Morris" <[email protected]>, "Ron Wiegert" <[email protected]>, "Sherry Gangwish" <[email protected]>, "Stan Burnette" <[email protected]>, "Toby Denning" <[email protected]>, "Tom Carrico" <[email protected]>, "Travis Ochs" <[email protected]>, "Whitney Jarvis" <[email protected]>, "Ackerman, Chris" <[email protected]>, "Cris Paulson" <[email protected]>, "Curtis Radke" <[email protected]>, "Kara Ackerman" <[email protected]>, "Kim Johnson" <[email protected]>, "Mark Johnson" <[email protected]>
CC: "Dr. Jon Wefald" <[email protected]>, "Ron Prince" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re:
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:48:30 +0000
>Mr Luman,
>Thank you for addressing this with me directly, I really appreciate it. I've had the chance to meet you and get to know you a little bit and your reaction is not unexpected.
>
>This is a very lengthy response. I try to respond to every letter, email and call so that you do not have to go to tabloid sources for information. Please feel free to respond after reading it. This is a very critical moment in the growth/development of this program and I want you to decide for yourself with as much information as I can give you.
>
>My first objective before the discussions with the administration & upon arrival in Manhattan was to look at "why". Why would a coach retire after so much success? Why did the team, after winning the Big XII championship finish in last place in the north division two straight years? The bottom line is that there is never one thing, its many things or everything. From planning, to performance, to attitudes and to drive/hunger. I asked a lot of questions, did a lot of listening, reading and watching. Well, I set a plan to do the following:
>
>1) Fix recruiting. Everything from who, what, where, why and how. The roster was about to undergo a deep transition because of the next two senior classes being devoid of so many players who "signed" but never made it to Manhattan or players who couldn't hold it together enough to stay in school. We just didn't think we had enough talent to sustain winning in the future and evaluated that was a main difference in the recent teams and those teams that won the Big 12 north titles.
>
>Recruiting is not "sales" and "fast-talking", its a plan. Parents commit their kids to us for 4 years and their decisions are the life-blood of a college football program. From emphasis, to evaluation, to building the talent pool, to strategizing and finally "the fit".
>
>I know we are on the right track from both a "tool/talent" aspect as well as a "make-up" standpoint. While we will be a young team again this year, the future is very bright.
>
>2) Immediately fix the adult/student relationship in the building. Some of asst coaches & people in the Vanier Complex at K-State let all of you down, bottom line. Beside recruiting, there were other issues (that are not appropriate for me to repeat) that were occuring and those things were eroding the confidence of the players, and discouraging people in the program who were working passionately to "win". There were some people just going thru the motions and some simply not even moving. Understand the standard that was set at K-State(you got everyone's attn in college football) and now all the competition is reacting to that standard and some people in our organization rested on their laurels. I asked some very close friends of mine to come and help me get this program turned around. They did. In fact, I tried to warn them how hard this was going to be and that it could effectively be viewed as the toughest job they would ever tackle and it may cost us in ways we may not now know. They came anyhow. They believed in what we were here to do. This year took its toll on everyone involved, so we could get back into the post season, which was a "minimum" requirement for the organization but unexpected by anyone evaluating the program. Some "experts" (including media) thought we would win as few as one game.
>
>I believe, just as my old boss at Virginia believes, that you reward and advance those people who sacrifice and accomplish "above and beyond" the call of duty. That is what has occured with the asst coaches this offseason. I feel very proud about what we accomplished this season, considering where we came from, but we are not National Champions at K-State yet! These coaches and others put the program on their backs and carried it to a bowl game, winning season, win over Texas, two terrific recruiting classes despite the fact that EVERYONE had us dead-in-the-water picked consensus last place pre-season. Could everyone be wrong? Why did everyone say "it couldn't be done"? No, there was reason that the team was in legitimate danger of finishing last for the third straight year, but a small group of people changed all that. I am grateful to those people and loyal to them. That's why, I will not stand in the way of those coaches and their families being rewarded by advancement(Tim Horton became an offensive coordinator), financial reward(Raheem Morris Tampa almost doubling his salary) or lifestyle(Abby Boustead to pursue her MBA to run a company someday). They basically did not see their families and put life on hold for a year. I told them that it would be this hard and it was. They kept fighting, yet others just sat.
>
>The football profession took notice of the work we did this year. Many, many programs came in pursuit of all our coaches(including the head coach) for the incredible job we did this year and for what people know we will do in the future(key point). Some of them could not say no and it would be irresponsible for us(K-State) to compete with NFL type salaries, especially when we have infrastructure issues to address for the long-term success of this program. The changing economics in asst coaching salaries are due to a couple of factors. First, with the success of Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Sean Payton and Herm Edwards, many programs(college & pro) are wanting to find the next terrific coach who can do what these gentlemen have done. Some of our coaches that did not leave(James Franklin/Tim Tibesar/Matt Wallerstedt), but could have, fit that mold and will be sought in the future. Second, the salaries that some programs(Alabama-2.5 million pool per yr) are now paying for asst coaches has changed, forever, the economic landscape and all of their direct competitors(SEC & teams they recruit against) have taken an aggressive position "to compete/survive" financially with them (Pat Washington going to Miss State to recruit his hometown of Mobile, Al).
>
>Even coaches that haven't coached a snap here at K-State, who are excellent coaches, once identified with us, they became targets(Wes McGriff going to Miami). In years to come we have others who will be as aggressively pursued, because they are very good at what they do and have a work-ethic that is know in our business as being a "grinder". These coaches are no different than the young person trying to make partner in a law, advertising or consulting firm.
>
>If this sounds strange to you, go back and look at coach Snyder's tenure (and before) and you'll see some of the best coaches in college & professional football were once asst coaches here. Some were successful and well known here and for some it didn't work out and they had more success elsewhere. Its part of our business. This is a major factor about being the head coach at K-State(asst coach turnover) that I knew before I took the job. Its my job to replace them with other great coaches, not just guys who won't leave. I've got news for you, we have.
>
>Frank Leonard, who we just hired to coach the tight ends, turned down multiple lucrative NFL coaching jobs to come to K-State this offseason for much less. He's spent the last few years with the best football organization in the world-the New England Patriots. He's here because he believes in what we're doing.
>
>Dave Brock, who will coach our wr's, turned down a job to coach with Rutgers to come here(and he's from New Jersey!). Watch the Univ of North Carolina in the next couple of seasons, because as recruiting coordinator, he assembled two of the best classes in their schools' history that coach Bunting elected to red-shirt and now Butch Davis will reap the rewards for.
>
>We've had coaches (Ricky Rahne and our newest defensive graduate assistant) give up their full-time coaching jobs at other places to come and work for free as graduate assistants here at K-State because they know we will do it right, we will win and if they work hard-they too will advance.
>
>All these guys are rising super stars in the business, you've just never heard of them. You shouldn't, that's not your job-its mine.
>
>There's no free lunch for these coaches. We work hard, long hours with much stress and pressure. We wouldn't have it any other way. Its the only way to get where we want to go. If coaches don't or can't perform they know it causes the organization to suffer. But they all have wives and families they must provide for and students at K-State they are responsible to & for.
>
>3) Evaluate all aspects of the program.
>We have completed a year long evaluation of every department and every aspect of our program. I made no changes in the support staff on our arrival, although it was my right to do so. I did not want to come in and fire everyone with no chance to evaluate their abilities. I'm glad that we waited.
>
>We have terrific people in the support staff who are working hard and dedicated to excellence and they too will be highly sought after. Unfortunately, we discovered some who are not and will not. I will not go into the specifics of some of those evaluations but we have some of the very best people I have ever been around in some areas and unfortunately in other areas the performances has been so low for so long that change must be made.
>
>I am evaluated on the performance of this organization on whole and on game day. We are committed to being the best organization in college football. Period. I need people who will support me in that mission. Good enough never is. The standards have been raised by the last 18 yrs and everyone in our organization must perform his/her job for us to win.
>
>Every aspect of the program contributes to winning and we can not accept a refusal to perform, lack of performance nor any underminding of the program on any level. For example, we inherited a team, last december, in which 43 of the 85 scholarship players were on academic warning. Meaning, if they had a repeat performance in the classroom, they could be lost, and certainly not graduate. Compound this with the players who had the football skills to finish last, for two straight years and we only had ONE player on the entire team that I could promote for any scholar-athlete award. Those are facts. Changes were going to be necessary for us to survive immediately but also to look parents in-the-eye for the recruitment of their sons. I'm proud to report, that this december, we had 6 players with a 4.0 gpa and 32 players OVER a 3.0gpa. Those 32 were named to the Big 12 commissioner's Honor Roll. On a team that finished 2nd in the north division in our first year! Had we not been willing to change, we may not have been able to win a single game because so many players may have been lost. I very proud of everyone associated with the academic support aspect because they were able, willing & excited to face the brutal truth and look for ways to reach our goals.
>
>4) Set the standards & demand compliance to them.
>I know how "change-adverse" we are in this part of the country(I'm from here) but throughout our program, we have addressed similar issues. We have seen vast improvement and in other areas we have met with resistance, coupled with a lack of performance.
>
>Many people outside of the organization do not know the importance of some positions and what they entail these days because of what those roles may sounded like when they were in high school or college many years ago. Everything we do is important and we have taken an entire year to evaluate the job performance of everyone.
>
>Many people believed that there would only now be one successful period of K-State football. In fact, most of them, didn't believe there would ever be a successful period. Most of them are quick to remind me, how awful K-State was in football not so long ago. I know! I was here! Who would want to go back to those "low moments" and "low expectations", not me. Many of these people are refered to in the title of Bill Snyder's book, "They said it couldn't be done."
>
>I reject such negativity, just as Bill Snyder did in 1988. I will not submit to it and will not allow it in this organization. Change is uncomfortable for some, I understand that. However, I'm asking that you look at the last 14 months and as change occurs, use the body-of-work to compare it against. People in this organization are expected and excited to perform, bottom-line.
>
>The 1982 Independence Bowl trophy was not on display with all the others until we arrived. We will honor the past but will not live in it.
>
>5) Plan and expect to win
>We are in the middle of our strategic planning phase for the upcoming year right now. These 6 weeks after signing date but before spring practice are the most important during the year. It is during this time we must decide who we will pursue(specifically) for next year and in concept what recruits our systems need in subsequent years. We will decide on the tactics and strategies that we will implement for next season now, so we have the time to train, develop, practice those methods that will help us win next year.
>That kind of specific planning and detail of agenda allows us to do a couple of things. One) our coaches to research all of the possible scenarios that could come up with on our opponents and to compare notes with many of our colleagues who might encounter the same. Two) allow our players to train and develop the specific skills they need so we do not waste time. For example, we were so out of shape last year, we could not sustain the tempo of a single practice and we fell further behind the competition as many of our players failed our basic conditioning test! It took us mid-way thru the year to "catch-up" and we lost some valuable training and therefore game-winning opportunities. That will not happen this season.
>
>I have never been more excited about a team or season in my career as a player or coach. I continue to tell recruits and coaches that K-State is the best coaching job in the country for the following reasons and I'm determined to win at the highest level here because of the following:
>One) we have a small but loyal fan base that demonstrates its love for K-State around every turn. 32K at last yrs spring game-never done before. 30K at this year's bowl game-has become the standard. 50k at every home game and unbelievable support for road games. This includes our student body!
>Two) we have the best administration in the country. They have invested their time and efforts to help recruit and support these student-athletes & coaches like no other place in the country. Rutgers, Marshall and others consistently point to the Jon Wefald, Kansas State model for university success.
>Three) Big 12 divisional play. We are so fortunate to have geographical division play in our conference. We have a chance each year to compete for the north division title. By winning that game, you are invited to the BCS tournament. That is our mission. We are putting our team together from a talent and make-up stand point to accomplish this.
>Four) we can attract terrific players to Manhattan/K-State. This game is about people and their relationships with each other, bottom line. Talented players from high school and junior college have come here and there is a reputation nation-wide for the expectation of excellence here. The kids that are in high school do not recall the dreary old days of failure, thank goodness. They don't fear, they don't despair. They know K-State as a nationally respected football program. Everyone they encounter must represent that when they visit.
>
>In conclusion, surely there are some that would like to see us fail. One group would be those that support our competitors' programs. I get that, it makes sense to me. Others may like to us fail for a variety of other reasons that are difficult to pin-down, be wary of those. However, there so many who want us and need us to succeed that we must stay focused on those individuals. We have a plan, we are demanding, we have integrity, we are fair and we will continue to succeed.
>Thank you for your time.
>Go State!
>
>Ron Prince
>Head Football Coach
>Kansas State University
>
>[email protected]
>800 992-9053
>785 532-7956 fax
>inside.kstatesports.com
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Holy crap.
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someone make a cliff notes. I'm tired and don't want to read.
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I probably should of chopped the top off with all the emails up there, but I figured it might help prove it if anyone actually talks to anyone of these people and can confirm real addresses perhaps?
I like how the entire ochs family is on there, do they have a major stake in the university somehow (besides the two sons playing as monster linebackers back in the day)?
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damn -- Uncle Bill left us in bad shape academically. HOLY $h!T!!!
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Every aspect of the program contributes to winning and we can not accept a refusal to perform, lack of performance nor any underminding of the program on any level. For example, we inherited a team, last december, in which 43 of the 85 scholarship players were on academic warning. Meaning, if they had a repeat performance in the classroom, they could be lost, and certainly not graduate. Compound this with the players who had the football skills to finish last, for two straight years and we only had ONE player on the entire team that I could promote for any scholar-athlete award. Those are facts. Changes were going to be necessary for us to survive immediately but also to look parents in-the-eye for the recruitment of their sons. I'm proud to report, that this december, we had 6 players with a 4.0 gpa and 32 players OVER a 3.0gpa. Those 32 were named to the Big 12 commissioner's Honor Roll. On a team that finished 2nd in the north division in our first year! Had we not been willing to change, we may not have been able to win a single game because so many players may have been lost. I very proud of everyone associated with the academic support aspect because they were able, willing & excited to face the brutal truth and look for ways to reach our goals.
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The football profession took notice of the work we did this year. Many, many programs came in pursuit of all our coaches(including the head coach) for the incredible job we did this year and for what people know we will do in the future(key point).
someone tried to hire Prince away?
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The football profession took notice of the work we did this year. Many, many programs came in pursuit of all our coaches(including the head coach) for the incredible job we did this year and for what people know we will do in the future(key point).
someone tried to hire Prince away?
LOL, I missed that...no way.
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Many, many programs came in pursuit of all our coaches(including the head coach) for the incredible job we did this year and for what people know we will do in the future(key point).
Thanks for pointing this out, Ron.
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Wow
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Wow. That's all I can say is WOW.
Ok, maybe shocked.
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Holy @#%$....Prince just laid the smack down. That's not "bold and daring" that's a big middle finger to everyone on that e-mail list.
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Woah.
If I were a fan of another school, I'd be worried.
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how much do you think prince charges for sprucing up memos and the like?
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Jesus.
I suddenly have more faith in RP than I ever had before reading this. Not that I think he'll win the national championship or anything, but that he's making our program overall much better than it was when he got here.
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someone make a cliff notes. I'm tired and don't want to read.
It took some time, but here you go:
&@#% YOU, SNYDER!!!
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I don't think it was a "&@#% you Snyder" as much as it was a "I inherited a team that was about to fall off the edge of a cliff."
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We went 4-12 our last 2 years with Snyder, and Prince went 4-4 his first year.
That should be enough evidence to give the stud a chance.
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Wow! Assuming this is legit, this doesn't surprise me but I could definitely see how it would surprise most of the Ron Prince haters. The only thing I'm surprised about is how bad our program was slipping as a whole the last couple years. If you don't think our program is in good hands with Prince, you aren't too bright.
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I don't think it was a "&*$@! you Snyder" as much as it was a "I inherited a team that was about to fall off the edge of a cliff."
Agreed. I took this as a "State of the KSU Union" address. Here's the situation, like it or not, warts and all.
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did you notice Travis Ochs and Mitch Running in the recipient list? Says something, not sure what? Is this a Catbacker group that emailed their concerns? It appears to have been a reply to an group of some kind. I am now firmly in Prince's corner. Well, until I decide against it anyway.
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I wish I could see Mr. Luman's email that spawned this.
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did you notice Travis Ochs and Mitch Running in the recipient list? Says something, not sure what? Is this a Catbacker group that emailed their concerns? It appears to have been a reply to an group of some kind. I am now firmly in Prince's corner. Well, until I decide against it anyway.
And Dirk...and about 22 other Ochs family members
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I wish I could see Mr. Luman's email that spawned this.
Yeah, me too. Was it a "WHAT THE !@#$^%!$# ARE YOU DOING TO THE PROGRAM? FIRING ALL THE LONG-TERM EMPLOYEES!" ... or a "We've heard some bad things and are looking for clarification..."
Somehow I think it is the former.
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Brad Seib...wasn't he the recepient of the "Drive" TD at OSU?
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I would guess that the list of people are those who Mr. Luman copied on his original message. I bet (actually I am pretty damn sure) that at least several of those could give a rat's ass about any of this.
Luman got 0wned.
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I would guess that the list of people are those who Mr. Luman copied on his original message. I bet (actually I am pretty damn sure) that at least several of those could give a rat's ass about any of this.
Luman got 0wned.
probably wouldn´t have got a response without the cc list though.
by the way, the letter is more of "i am doing a great job, and here is how/why" than a state of the program address.
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Yeah, how did dr00d get this?
Was he on Luman's list?
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Yeah, how did dr00d get this?
Was he on Luman's list?
If he was he better be posting the original email post haste.
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I would guess that the list of people are those who Mr. Luman copied on his original message. I bet (actually I am pretty damn sure) that at least several of those could give a rat's ass about any of this.
Luman got 0wned.
probably wouldn´t have got a response without the cc list though.
by the way, the letter is more of "i am doing a great job, and here is how/why" than a state of the program address.
You ever seen a "State of the Anything" before?
Same thing.
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Woah.
If I were a fan of another school, I'd be worried.
:lol:
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15 losses in 3 years . . . but "we're back".
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Snyder was such a douche.
Funny how now that he got fired, opposing fans love him, and hate Prince. Do I sense fear? Shake 'dem hatas off, Prince.
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15 losses in 3 years . . . but "we're back".
Not back yet, but getting there. We won the Big 12 North, played in a New Year's Day bowl, and came down to Manhattan for the biennial "kitty roast."
I just love how delusional you guys are. Your head coach sends out a ten page diatribe via email and suddenly you expect everyone to quake in fear. It's pretty amusing. You're the second best team in your own state for God sakes.
Prince can rage and vent however much he wants, but so long as he's bringing fourth-rate recruiting classes to the wasteland that is Manhattan, K-State will struggle to compete with the best teams in the Big 12.
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I'm surprised this hasn't been linked by the gp lurkers yet.
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I'm surprised this hasn't been linked by the gp lurkers yet.
I'm shocked that Tim Fitzgerald wasn't in the recipients list.
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15 losses in 3 years . . . but "we're back".
Not back yet, but getting there. We won the Big 12 North, played in a New Year's Day bowl, and came down to Manhattan for the biennial "kitty roast."
I just love how delusional you guys are. Your head coach sends out a ten page diatribe via email and suddenly you expect everyone to quake in fear. It's pretty amusing. You're the second best team in your own state for God sakes.
Prince can rage and vent however much he wants, but so long as he's bringing fourth-rate recruiting classes to the wasteland that is Manhattan, K-State will struggle to compete with the best teams in the Big 12.
I think one person said that other schools should be afraid . . . one.
Plus, you have no credibility when your school resides in a state that has 400 ton manure fires and yet you call Manhattan a wasteland. Lincoln is nowheresville where 225,000 people and a prison decided to reside. UNL has a but ugly campus, that's dominated by a butt ugly architectural monstrosity of a football stadium and another end of campus actually has railroad tracks going across it.
Plus I laugh at Cornhole State fans who consistantly tell us how good their guys are going to be, and how bad our guys are going to be when not one of them has played a single down of college football. This is what makes Cornhole State fans so funny, because you actually think Bill Callahan is going to take your football program to where it once was a decade ago . . . he's not going too.
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"I try to respond to every letter, email and call so that you do not have to go to tabloid sources for information"
lol. What a liar. Like he has enough time in a day to answer all the emails he gets. If he did that he would have no time to recruit...oh wait a minute, nevermind.
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"I try to respond to every letter, email and call so that you do not have to go to tabloid sources for information"
lol. What a liar. Like he has enough time in a day to answer all the emails he gets. If he did that he would have no time to recruit...oh wait a minute, nevermind.
You pretty much fail as a troll, in general. I group you a step below BMW. It's not a compliment.
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I've sent him two emails and he's responded to both. Don't tell Tim Weiser.
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We are so fortunate to have geographical division play in our conference. We have a chance each year to compete for the north division title. By winning that game, you are invited to the BCS tournament.
:confused:
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We are so fortunate to have geographical division play in our conference. We have a chance each year to compete for the north division title. By winning that game, you are invited to the BCS tournament.
:confused:
Yeah, that one had me a little "WTF?" too.
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We are so fortunate to have geographical division play in our conference. We have a chance each year to compete for the north division title. By winning that game, you are invited to the BCS tournament.
:confused:
Oh geez...Prince thinks there is a tournament.
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He's right.
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http://www.tournamentofroses.com/
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Who played in the north division championship game last year? And who won the BCS tournament? :confused:
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Personally I think someon telnetted to the open port on the mail server and forged the email on Prince's account. Back in the dark days of my tenure at a Fortune 50 company we used to do that in order to send messages from the company's CEO to our boss.
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Prince is basically echoing what I've been saying...just win the damn north every couple of years and great things can happen and everyone will be happy.
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For the record, I got the email on probably the 4th or 5th foward.
I tried to backtrack, from my source to their source 'who is a friend of one of the guys that is on the original email' and they didn't have the original email.
so...like I said, feel free to write it off for fake or whatever you wish since I can't confirm or deny validity.
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The beauty of my method of forgery is that it comes from the authentic server which makes it tough to prove it was a fake. Or at least the senior software engineers who received emails from our corporate CEO were never able to successfully prove they were forgeries. :D
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Brad Seib's email ([email protected]) seems legit...
"What it boils down to is that former athletes have the characteristics I look for in superior sales people. I've interviewed several outstanding applicants from A4H that are exactly what I'm looking for and will continue on through our hiring process." -Brad Seib, MetLife Agency Sales Director
http://www.athletes4hire.com/testimonials.php
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The beauty of my method of forgery is that it comes from the authentic server which makes it tough to prove it was a fake. Or at least the senior software engineers who received emails from our corporate CEO were never able to successfully prove they were forgeries. :D
oh please, don't make it sound like you are some uber hacker. All you have to do is log in as an admin on the exchange machine, put in your CEO's name and list him/her as the default user...send email
I did this on a couple occasions but only because he asked me to do this so he could leave for the day (he already had it written out, but needed to be spell/grammar checked by the secretary.
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I've seen this sort of thing before, from executives ... usually immediately prior to an utter disaster. For the benefit of the students in the crowd: if you get emails like this from executives in your employer's organization *RUN* don't walk but *RUN* for the nearest exit. If you fail to be an early adopter of the "I'm getting the &@#% out of here while the getting's good" attitude you might get trampled. Change is good and it does create vast opportunities but only for those who are at the top of the game driving the changes, if you're along for the ride watch out.
I like Prince and I think he's both a bright and sincere guy. I also think the odds against him having any significant success at KSU are long. And this email does smell more than a bit of desperation.
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I've seen this sort of thing before, from executives ... usually immediately prior to an utter disaster. For the benefit of the students in the crowd: if you get emails like this from executives in your employer's organization *RUN* don't walk but *RUN* for the nearest exit. If you fail to be an early adopter of the "I'm getting the &*$@! out of here while the getting's good" attitude you might get trampled. Change is good and it does create vast opportunities but only for those who are at the top of the game driving the changes, if you're along for the ride watch out.
I like Prince and I think he's both a bright and sincere guy. I also think the odds against him having any significant success at KSU are long. And this email does smell more than a bit of desperation.
what a downer.
either way i wouldn't mind reading something like this every year from a coach.
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I've seen this sort of thing before, from executives ... usually immediately prior to an utter disaster. For the benefit of the students in the crowd: if you get emails like this from executives in your employer's organization *RUN* don't walk but *RUN* for the nearest exit. If you fail to be an early adopter of the "I'm getting the &*$@! out of here while the getting's good" attitude you might get trampled. Change is good and it does create vast opportunities but only for those who are at the top of the game driving the changes, if you're along for the ride watch out.
I like Prince and I think he's both a bright and sincere guy. I also think the odds against him having any significant success at KSU are long. And this email does smell more than a bit of desperation.
I think this is more akin to a new CEO/President having to answer tough questions from shareholders. You see this as doom/gloom, a sinking ship type of email, while I see it as a "You want the truth? Things were a mess when I arrived and yes changes are being made whether you agree or not. Times they are a'changin. There's a news sheriff in town and his name is Reggie Hammonds." This isn't the type of email you send to employees. This is the type of message that gets sent to disgruntled shareholders who want to know why the company wasn't performing as it had in the past, who are also wondering just WTF you are doing to correct things.
And before you make some comment about my possible lack of business experience, I do indeed have plenty of it....
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=8149.0
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Wow...two pages of drivel wondering whether a pointless email is legitimate.
Who cares?
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I've seen this sort of thing before, from executives ... usually immediately prior to an utter disaster. For the benefit of the students in the crowd: if you get emails like this from executives in your employer's organization *RUN* don't walk but *RUN* for the nearest exit. If you fail to be an early adopter of the "I'm getting the &*$@! out of here while the getting's good" attitude you might get trampled. Change is good and it does create vast opportunities but only for those who are at the top of the game driving the changes, if you're along for the ride watch out.
I like Prince and I think he's both a bright and sincere guy. I also think the odds against him having any significant success at KSU are long. And this email does smell more than a bit of desperation.
Example?
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Example?
Are you familiar with the history of the Iridium and Teledesic programs down there in the Valley of the Sun? Corpspeak of this type precedes the fall. Though the whole thing smacks of desperation the content isn't nearly as bad as: a) the fact that he felt the need to say anything at all of this sort, and b) they way in which he said it. I don't really have a problem with it, I'm just calling 'em as as I see 'em in light of my own experience. YMMV
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Example?
Are you familiar with the history of the Iridium and Teledesic programs down there in the Valley of the Sun? Corpspeak of this type precedes the fall. Though the whole thing smacks of desperation the content isn't nearly as bad as: a) the fact that he felt the need to say anything at all of this sort, and b) they way in which he said it. I don't really have a problem with it, I'm just calling 'em as as I see 'em in light of my own experience. YMMV
Yes. And I don't think this is the same thing.
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Example?
Are you familiar with the history of the Iridium and Teledesic programs down there in the Valley of the Sun? Corpspeak of this type precedes the fall. Though the whole thing smacks of desperation the content isn't nearly as bad as: a) the fact that he felt the need to say anything at all of this sort, and b) they way in which he said it. I don't really have a problem with it, I'm just calling 'em as as I see 'em in light of my own experience. YMMV
Yes. And I don't think this is the same thing.
Me either as I'll be surprised if we find out that Prince is actually the author here.
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
That doesn't validate anything. Those guys make up some weird crap sometimes..
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
That doesn't validate anything. Those guys make up some weird @#%$ sometimes..
No, it's real.
I think drood put it on here first.
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
That doesn't validate anything. Those guys make up some weird @#%$ sometimes..
No, it's real.
I think drood put it on here first.
8-4 and K-State won't lose another game all year (we're 2-3 since then).
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Prince is an attention hoor.
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
That doesn't validate anything. Those guys make up some weird @#%$ sometimes..
No, it's real.
I think drood put it on here first.
Yeah, when I first got the email, I read through it and posted it here. Hey, at least you can see your site produced something besides trolls and tard fights, MJ.
I was simply stating that, although most of the people on other sites don't believe, there are a ton of people with good information on gpc. You just have to sort through all the trash and read between the lines with some posters. I have no doubt that some of the people that were cc'd in that email are members of gpc.
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
That doesn't validate anything. Those guys make up some weird @#%$ sometimes..
No, it's real.
I think drood put it on here first.
Yeah, when I first got the email, I read through it and posted it here. Hey, at least you can see your site produced something besides trolls and tard fights, MJ.
I was simply stating that, although most of the people on other sites don't believe, there are a ton of people with good information on gpc. You just have to sort through all the trash and read between the lines with some posters. I have no doubt that some of the people that were cc'd in that email are members of gpc.
The tard fights are not real, they're choreographed.. like rasslin'. :peek:
Anyway, yeah, GPC has lots of good stuff, but me and Super Mario Chalmers talked about it for a while and he and I thought it was nicely done. Prince being raised in a military background, this is just the kind of stuff a military commander does..well the good ones anyway.
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The power of one single email and others who copy it around.
Can you believe this thread spawned a thread just like it on so many other boards? They finally got the email copied over to the Wabash at gpc.com and several people there are confirmed they received the original email from Prince, so I'd say that validates it. I'm still waiting to see the original email to Prince.
That doesn't validate anything. Those guys make up some weird @#%$ sometimes..
No one who wanted to make a false email under Prince's name would have the energy nor the sheer poetic awesomeness that Bold and Daring exhibits with this 'email' that is in all respect a literary masterpiece.
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He had to have made fifty drafts of that damn email.
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1st, I think it is from Prince. 2nd, I don't think he minded that it went public. Sort of an "indirect response" to Janssen and the like.
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I think it deserves a reply. In fact, each sentence deserves a three or four sentence response. Everyone pick a sentence and fire away. We'll send it off to Ron when all sentences have been responded to.
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1st, I think it is from Prince. 2nd, I don't think he minded that it went public. Sort of an "indirect response" to Janssen and the like.
A person would have to assume that any email can be made public at any time. Someone like Prince, who at least seems pretty "tech savvy" should and does know this.
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Seems really, really odd that a head FB coach would do something like this. BS wouldn't have done it. Mason wouldn't have done it, but he was a prick anyway. Terry Allen might've, but I doubt he would have expounded this way and in such detail. Mangino has alluded to the way the program was when he got here verbally, but he has never written a prodigous email to any fans that I am aware of. I wrote him an email back in '02 without response, and anything I've received from him has been terse and one-sentence.
Do you guys think he would talk (or has talked) to the media about the letter? Especially the academic dirty laundry? That seems the most surprising aspect of the letter to me.
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Do you guys think he would talk (or has talked) to the media about the letter? Especially the academic dirty laundry? That seems the most surprising aspect of the letter to me.
I don't think he would discuss it publicly, but he definitely wanted it made public, like FAN said. Does that make sense?
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Here is the original latter to Prince and Wefald supposedly...
cut and pasted from the email I got (not directly from anyone on the original mind you)
Sent by a guy in OP . I left out his info. I'm sure he is thrilled with Wildcatnation getting his contact numbers.
"Cc:"Dr. Jon Wefald" , "Ron Prince"
>Subject:
>
>Attached is an article appearing in yesterday's Manhattan Mercury. The
story was prompted by the reported firing of Jim "Shorty" Kleinau, the
Football Equipment Manager of the last 28 years. We have all discussed the
football coaching staff turnover issues among ourselves, but now the ax
seems to be falling deep into the foundation of the football program. I
have been a supporter of Coach Prince from day one, and maybe I am
becoming too much of a softie in my old age, but it seems to me that
releasing individuals who have given so much to Kansas State University
for such a long time is just not the right thing to do. We all understand
that winning is more fun than the alternative, but I guess I just do not
understand how replacing the long-time equipment manager is going to
translate to more W's. "
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and maybe I am becoming too much of a softie in my old age, but it seems to me that
releasing individuals who have given so much to Kansas State University
for such a long time is just not the right thing to do.
That sounds more like Snyder's philosophy towards assistant coaches over the last few years.
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I tend to believe the E-mail is from Prince.. This may make me appear an idiot if he later recants.
The "shorty thing" really doesn't bother me. Perhaps Prince wanted a higher tech level of managment that shorty was unwilling to implement. Perhaps shorty was tired and left. I don't know and neither to you guys.
What I do know is that the football program was sinking fast and looked like crap the two years prior to Prince. A lot of that was due to the attitude of the players and assitant coaches. Many seemed to be complacent after winning a Big XII title. This combined with a drop off in talent due to recruiting busts and lack of player development on the offensive and defensive lines led to losses.
I believe Snyder was wise to realize he really didn't have the desire to do what was required to turn it around quickly. I may be suffering from a bad case of drinking the purple Koolaid but the revelations in the letter make sense to me. I have renewed confidence in this team heading into next year.
Perhaps I am faling into the evil trap which Prince has sprung? If so the waters warm and feels good so far.
:ksu:
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Here is the original latter to Prince and Wefald supposedly...
cut and pasted from the email I got (not directly from anyone on the original mind you)
Sent by a guy in OP . I left out his info. I'm sure he is thrilled with Wildcatnation getting his contact numbers.
"Cc:"Dr. Jon Wefald" , "Ron Prince"
>Subject:
>
>Attached is an article appearing in yesterday's Manhattan Mercury. The
story was prompted by the reported firing of Jim "Shorty" Kleinau, the
Football Equipment Manager of the last 28 years. We have all discussed the
football coaching staff turnover issues among ourselves, but now the ax
seems to be falling deep into the foundation of the football program. I
have been a supporter of Coach Prince from day one, and maybe I am
becoming too much of a softie in my old age, but it seems to me that
releasing individuals who have given so much to Kansas State University
for such a long time is just not the right thing to do. We all understand
that winning is more fun than the alternative, but I guess I just do not
understand how replacing the long-time equipment manager is going to
translate to more W's. "
Thanks. Totally classless, Nation!
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I'm sure that this is his. He didn't say anything that wasn't known did he. What's the big deal. He's re-stating what is obvious to some but what others choose not to see.
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I'm sure that this is his. He didn't say anything that wasn't known did he. What's the big deal. He's re-stating what is obvious to some but what others choose not to see.
Was it known that "someone" tried to hire him? Did you know that 45 of 70 players were on academic warning?
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Have you read bill Snyder's book??? Did you see or hear about players being suspended this spring and summer for undisclosed reasons? Including players shuffled on the depth chart and such for "no apparent reason"
I didn't know he was pursued by other schools.
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Have you read bill Snyder's book??? Did you see or hear about players being suspended this spring and summer for undisclosed reasons? Including players shuffled on the depth chart and such for "no apparent reason"
Um, no I haven't read Snyder's book. However, players being suspended and moved on the depth chart happens all the time. I didn't see anything that made me think "45 players are an eyelash away from being ineligible".
I also didn't know that guy turned down a job at Rutgers.
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well bill snyder said in his book that there were things going on in the program recently that as he put it "crept" in and he nor the staff could get a handle on them and stop them. Doesn't explicetly say grades but I think he did mention discepline.
Also this summer KK was interviewing BS and asked if they recruited JF. Said that he was on their radar early and got "bad" information about him. Apparently one of the assistants F'd that up. Snyder dropped the topic immediately.
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"Did you know that 45 of 70 players were on academic warning?"
one look at your graduation rates and that shouldn't be surprising
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prince is the master of an old politician technique used when things go wrong called deflect and deny.
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"Did you know that 45 of 70 players were on academic warning?"
one look at your graduation rates and that shouldn't be surprising
Link?
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I wish I could see Mr. Luman's email that spawned this.
I didn't see it, but I've had it read to me by someone on the receipt list. Mainly in response to the firing/leaving of assistant coaches and other staff.
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from: [email protected]
cc: "Ron Prince" <[email protected]>
Why the two different domains?
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One's an alias.
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type in www.ksu.edu
and www.k-state.edu
tell me what you come up with.
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What does that have to do with e-mail?
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GP dudes thinks its legit.
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What does that have to do with e-mail?
I'm not a "computer guy" but I assume that because the school has 2 domains then email could have 2 domains. Maybe I'm wrong?
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Yes, you could have two e-mail accounts, one for k-state.edu and one for ksu.edu.
However, having to maintain two accounts is difficult to do when you're in Prince's position, so they have one as his regular e-mail, the other is an alias that dumps into the regular. That's my guess, but he could have two e-mail accounts and manage both of them.
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Ahhhhhhh, I assumed that the 2 domains would go to the same account.
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"Did you know that 45 of 70 players were on academic warning?"
one look at your graduation rates and that shouldn't be surprising
We graduate the highest percentage of student athletes in the entire big XII. Try again.
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"Did you know that 45 of 70 players were on academic warning?"
one look at your graduation rates and that shouldn't be surprising
We graduate the highest percentage of student athletes in the entire big XII. Try again.
Oops!
Waks, you should know Nebraska fans don't know anything about reality. They live in a fantasy world.
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from: [email protected]
cc: "Ron Prince" <[email protected]>
Why the two different domains?
Noticed that as well; I'm willing to bet he had a secretary type it for him as he spoke. There's probably two email accounts; one that he uses primarily; and one that goes to an assistant. All of his mail probably goes to the assistant, where it's read and forwarded to prince if it requires anything beyound coach speak.
I do this all of the time for the owner of our co. He has two email accounts. One that we advirtise on the websight, and one that only his friends know about. All of the crap mail goes to me and I respond for him. Sometimes he just tells me what to write, and rather than sitting at his computer to do it for him; I type it and send it out for him.
His assistant probably typed it and CC'd it to weiser and prince so they'd have a copy.
That one detail makes me believe this is legit; as if this was a forgery; no one would have thought to do something like that.
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Here is the original latter to Prince and Wefald supposedly...
cut and pasted from the email I got (not directly from anyone on the original mind you)
Sent by a guy in OP . I left out his info. I'm sure he is thrilled with Wildcatnation getting his contact numbers.
"Cc:"Dr. Jon Wefald" , "Ron Prince"
>Subject:
>
>Attached is an article appearing in yesterday's Manhattan Mercury. The
story was prompted by the reported firing of Jim "Shorty" Kleinau, the
Football Equipment Manager of the last 28 years. We have all discussed the
football coaching staff turnover issues among ourselves, but now the ax
seems to be falling deep into the foundation of the football program. I
have been a supporter of Coach Prince from day one, and maybe I am
becoming too much of a softie in my old age, but it seems to me that
releasing individuals who have given so much to Kansas State University
for such a long time is just not the right thing to do. We all understand
that winning is more fun than the alternative, but I guess I just do not
understand how replacing the long-time equipment manager is going to
translate to more W's. "
Thanks. Totally classless, Nation!
How did I get dragged into this.
If someone did go to the effort of faking it (I, however, think it's legit for the same reasons FAN does), they apparently had emailed him before because that's his exact signature. I have emailed him on a couple of occasions...most recently asking about some other OOC opponents he might be working on.
I tend to think it's him that replies to a lot of them (Blackberry)...but who knows. I know when I've emailed Mr. Weiser, all I get is a canned response that I'm sure is sent by a secretary. I think I might have it memorized.
Raheem liked to email too.
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from: [email protected]
cc: "Ron Prince" <[email protected]>
Why the two different domains?
Noticed that as well; I'm willing to bet he had a secretary type it for him as he spoke. There's probably two email accounts; one that he uses primarily; and one that goes to an assistant. All of his mail probably goes to the assistant, where it's read and forwarded to prince if it requires anything beyound coach speak.
The two acounts are actually the same account. Several years ago K-State changed its website address from www.ksu.edu to www.k-state.edu. They are both the same sight and will both take you the same place. Similarily if you go to the KSU webmail sight (webmail.ksu.edu or webmail.k-state.edu) they are the exact same. I'm a student with a @k-state.edu and I still type it ksu.edu like I did when I as a freshman. Again they are the same account. No difference. No conspiracy.
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from: [email protected]
cc: "Ron Prince" <[email protected]>
Why the two different domains?
Noticed that as well; I'm willing to bet he had a secretary type it for him as he spoke. There's probably two email accounts; one that he uses primarily; and one that goes to an assistant. All of his mail probably goes to the assistant, where it's read and forwarded to prince if it requires anything beyound coach speak.
The two acounts are actually the same account. Several years ago K-State changed its website address from www.ksu.edu to www.k-state.edu. They are both the same sight and will both take you the same place. Similarily if you go to the KSU webmail sight (webmail.ksu.edu or webmail.k-state.edu) they are the exact same. I'm a student with a @k-state.edu and I still type it ksu.edu like I did when I as a freshman. Again they are the same account. No difference. No conspiracy.
As I said, one is actual, the other is an alias. You're perception is logically correct, but in reality, you have one box under one of those domains, and the other just points to it.
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As I said, one is actual, the other is an alias. You're perception is logically correct, but in reality, you have one box under one of those domains, and the other just points to it.
(http://members.cox.net/mglynn4/ksu/mjrodbadge.jpg)
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"I try to respond to every letter, email and call so that you do not have to go to tabloid sources for information"
lol. What a liar. Like he has enough time in a day to answer all the emails he gets.
I've sent Prince email before and received personal replies...and for the record, I'm just "Joe Fan," not some big money, fat-cat donor. Look, you can tell when the response you get is a "canned" message. That's not what I got from Prince. Whether you want to believe it or not, he DOES personally respond to emails that are sent his way.
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Someone tell him not to &@#% with the jerseys.
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Cornhole dumbasses on this board continue to prove how stupid they are:
KSU 2006 NCAA Football Graduation Rate Report:
Graduation Success Rate 76%
Federal Graduation Rate 63%
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I don't get why so many people:
A) Don't believe Ronald really sent this
B) Don't want to believe Ronald really sent this
What's the big f'ing deal?
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Chad, you graduated, right?
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Gopowercat is trying to validate it as we speak.
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I know most the folks on that list. Mainly because I work with someone on that list. I asked him/her about why Prince fired Shorty. He/She showed me the e-mail.
It's legit.
And as a ku fan, I have to say I'm impressed with what Prince said. I've questioned a number of Prince decisions since he took over (and hoped they turned out for the worse), but I think this was rather calculated. The people on that list have been tied to KSU for quite some time, and are in fact friends with Shorty. They are the kind of people that hope KSU wins them all, but not at the expense of a dear friend and a valuable friend of the KSU football program. That's why the e-mail was sent. I think Prince knew there was a good chance this would get beyond the hands of the recipients. So he took a lot of time and effort in his response, addressing a lot of concerns outside those of Mr. Luman so that fans understand the depth of the program's problems. Perhaps intentionally, he took a shot at the previous regime. But you can't say it wasn't deserved if it is in fact true a number of students were within an eyelash of academic casualty.
Whether or not he wins ballgames, he comes out looking pretty sharp to this Jayhawk fan.
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I don't get why so many people:
A) Don't believe Ronald really sent this
B) Don't want to believe Ronald really sent this
What's the big f'ing deal?
You do remember a portion of the fanbase that thought his video on the VA website was cut / pasted / butchered to make him look good, right? Then they realized that he could coach-speak with the best of 'em. Then his team beat Texas, then lost to ku. All of the sudden, he was the devil, especially for not beating a Top-15 team in the first bowl game that KSU had participated in in 3 years.
I'm not ready to annoint him as the "chosen one", but he has lit some fires to burn the program-killing apathetic efforts that ran the FB program into the ground the past few years.
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This past football season was so up and down I could barely stand to follow it. Prince hired = everyone saying who the F is that guy.
After hearing Prince speak = everyone loving him
Towards the beginning of the season = everyone questioning crap he is doing
After the Illinois State game = a lynch mob is nearly formed to go after him
After FAU, Marshall, and staying in the Louisville game = everyone likes him again
After Baylor game = F Ron Prince
After OSU game = Awesome, Freeman's a God
After NU and Mizzou games = I don't know about this guy
After CU and ISU = We may not get beat by +40 against Texas
After Texas = Holy crap we are Fcking AWESOME!!!! :ksu: :ksu:
After ku game = I hate Ron Prince
After Rutgers game = This blows, our football program sucks
After recruiting class is finalized = This isn't that bad
After Shorty gets fired = Crumbling foundation that Snyder built
After email = this kind of makes sense
I can't go through another season like that.
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Waks, I have to say that is the most succinct and accurate rundown of this season I've seen. I personally think since Snyder's leaving our fanbase has been ever more fickle and nervous...the foundation of snyder and his godlike status to the fans and boosters meant that his failings would be passed over even though the program was struggling. I revere Snyder more than anyone I know but give Prince a chance...we're going to be looking like Alabama fans if we don't watch out how we treat a first year coach.
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I still have a completely open mind. As long as we keep seeing improvement then I will be happy. A 8 win season will satisfy me this year. I would also like a bowl win. But an 8 win season is the most important thing to me right now..
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This past football season was so up and down I could barely stand to follow it. Prince hired = everyone saying who the F is that guy.
After hearing Prince speak = everyone loving him
Towards the beginning of the season = everyone questioning @#%$ he is doing
After the Illinois State game = a lynch mob is nearly formed to go after him
After FAU, Marshall, and staying in the Louisville game = everyone likes him again
After Baylor game = F Ron Prince
After OSU game = Awesome, Freeman's a God
After NU and Mizzou games = I don't know about this guy
After CU and ISU = We may not get beat by +40 against Texas
After Texas = Holy @#%$ we are Fcking AWESOME!!!! :ksu: :ksu:
After ku game = I hate Ron Prince
After Rutgers game = This blows, our football program sucks
After recruiting class is finalized = This isn't that bad
After Shorty gets fired = Crumbling foundation that Snyder built
After email = this kind of makes sense
I can't go through another season like that.
LOL
that was pretty good.
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Holy @#%$! NJHawk gets owned in the face by Prince. (this is part one - the full text exceeds the character limit)
So help me God, I've spent my free time over the last 3 days going skimming Prince's novel looking for errors, lies, misrepresentations and sheer arrogance. I'm gonna post the the document with my comments, but here is a summary of what I found:
Indictments of Bill Snyder's 4erformance: 10 sentences
Praise for Bill Snyder: 3 sentences
Pompous Statements or Pronouncements: 12
Bald Faced Lies: 2
Spelling/Grammar/Punctuation/Capitalizatoin Errors: 14
FYI - I decided to track the spelling (etc...) errors because Prince is so freaking scary smart, reads so many freaking books and is so freaking impressed with his own intelligence, that in this day of word processors and advanced e-mail clients, there is no excuse for any of these errors to crop up. I did decide, however, not to track sentence fragments, because I'd still be marking up the e-mail in 2038 if I had.
Here we go:
Quote:Mr Luman,
Thank you for addressing this with
me directly, I really appreciate it. I've had the chance to meet you and get to
know you a little bit and your reaction is not unexpected.
This is a very
lengthy response. I try to respond to every letter, email and call so that you
do not have to go to tabloid sources of information. (“Tabloid” has many
meanings. From this context, it can pretty much only mean something luridly or
vulgarly sensational. In other words, all sources outside of Prince, including
and especially the media, are lurid or vulgarly sensational. This is Prince’s
first, but far from his last, pompous pronouncement in this little
novel) Please feel free to respond after reading it. This is a very
critical moment in the growth/development of this program and I want you to
decide for yourself with as much information as I can give you.
My first
objective before the discussions with the administration & upon arrival in
Manhattan was to look at "why". Why would a coach retire after so much success?
Why did the team, after winning the Big XII championship finish in last place in
the north division two straight years? (Indicts Snyder for
losing) The bottom line is that there is never one thing, its many
things or everything. From planning, to performance, to attitudes and to
drive/hunger. (Indicts Snyder for poor planning, performance and
drive) I asked a lot of questions, did a lot of listening, reading and
watching. Well, I set a plan to do the following:
1) Fix recruiting.
(Indicts Snyder for poor recruiting) Everything from who, what,
where, why and how. The roster was about to undergo a deep transition because of
the next two senior classes being devoid of so many players who "signed" but
never made it to Manhattan or players who couldn't hold it together enough to
stay in school. We just didn't think we had enough talent to sustain winning in
the future and evaluated that was a main difference in the recent teams and
those teams that won the Big 12 north titles.
Recruiting is not "sales"
and "fast-talking", its (Should be “it’s”. Not scary smart
punctuation) a plan. Parents commit their kids to us for 4 years
(Prince, however, reserves the right to renege on his commitment to
their kids at any time) and their decisions are the life-blood of a
college football program. From emphasis, to evaluation, to building the talent
pool, to strategizing and finally "the fit".
I know we are on the right
track from both a "tool/talent" aspect as well as a "make-up" standpoint. While
we will be a young team again this year, the future is very bright.
2)
Immediately fix the adult/student relationship in the building. Some of asst
coaches & people in the Vanier Complex at K-State let all of you down,
bottom line. (Indicts Snyder for having a poor staff) Beside
(Should be “besides”. Not scary smart grammar) recruiting,
there were other issues (that are not appropriate for me to repeat)
(Indicts Snyder for something undefined that can only be inferred to be
deeply scandalous. That's not pompous, its slimy.) that were occuring
(Should be occurring. Not scary smart spelling) and those
things were eroding the confidence of the players, and discouraging people in
the program who were working passionately to "win". There were some people just
going thru the motions and some simply not even moving. (Indicts Snyder
for not motivating his coaches and players) Understand the standard
that was set at K-State (you got everyone's attn in college football) and now
all the competition is reacting to that standard and some people in our
organization rested on their laurels. (Second indictment of Snyder for
not motivating his coaches and players) I asked some very close friends
of mine to come and help me get this program turned around. They did. In fact, I
tried to warn them how hard this was going to be and that it could effectively
be viewed as the toughest job they would ever tackle (Indicts Snyder for
letting the program slip into oblivion) and it may cost us in ways
we may not now know.(Pompous. Drama. Queen.) They came
anyhow. They believed in what we were here to do. This year took its toll on
everyone involved, so we could get back into the post season, which was a
"minimum" requirement for the organization but unexpected by anyone evaluating
the program. Some "experts" (including media) thought we would win as few as one
game.
I believe, just as my old boss at Virginia believes, that you
reward and advance those people who sacrifice and accomplish "above and beyond"
the call of duty. That is what has occurred (Should be “occurred”. Not
scary smart spelling) with the asst coaches this offseason. I feel very
proud about what we accomplished this season (K-State went from 5-6 to
7-6. Definitely an accomplishment of epic proportions), considering
where we came from, but we are not National Champions at K-State yet!
(Prince got himself confused here. This is a letter to justify his
actions. He got lost in all the words and started down his patented BS marketing
path. If boosters are angry with you, that don’t want to hear about your dreams
for National Championships, they want to hear about how you are going to fix the
perceived problems. Regardless, more pompousity.) These coaches and
others put the program on their backs and carried it to a bowl game, winning
season, win over Texas , two terrific recruiting classes despite the fact that
EVERYONE had us dead-in-the-water picked consensus last place pre-season. Could
everyone be wrong? Why did everyone say "it couldn't be done"? No, there was
reason that the team was in legitimate danger of finishing last for the third
straight year, but a small group of people changed all that. I am grateful to
those people and loyal to them. That's why, I will not stand in the way
(Um, how could he stand in the way?) of those coaches and their
families being rewarded by advancement (Tim Horton became an offensive
coordinator), financial reward (Raheem Morris Tampa almost doubling his salary)
or lifestyle (Abby Boustead to pursue her MBA to run a company someday)
(You don’t need a MBA to run a company and most people who hold MBA’s
don’t run companies). They basically did not see their families and put
life on hold for a year. (This is what all football coaches do, all
year, every year) I told them that it would be this hard and it was.
They kept fighting, yet others just sat. (Snyder is thrown under the
boss when his staff didn’t perform. When the staff didn’t perform for Prince, it
was entirely the staff’s fault)
The football profession took
notice of the work we did this year. Many, many programs came in pursuit of all
our coaches (including the head coach) (Bald faced lie. BCS schools that
replaced coaches in the off season: Alabama, Arizona State, Boston College, Iowa
State, Louisville, Miami, Michigan State, Minnesota, NC State, North Carolina,
Stanford. Minnesota might have given Prince a call, but not any of those other
programs) for the incredible job we did this year and for what people
know we will do in the future (key point) (So Prince’s word, which is
not highly regarded after the greyshirt/scholarship pulling fiasco, on what some
undefined group of people’s opinion of how Prince will do in the future,
constitutes a “key point”. Gotcha.) Some of them could not say no and
it would be irresponsible for us (K-State) to compete with NFL type salaries
(I thought Prince chose not to stand in people’s way, not that he was
prevented from standing in their way due to economics), especially when
we have infrastructure issues to address for the long-term success of this
program. The changing economics in asst coaching salaries are due to a couple of
factors. First, with the success of Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Sean Payton and
Herm Edwards, many programs (college & pro) (Prince says college and
pro, but he only talks about pro coaches. Changes in the pro coaching
environment are not changes to the college coaching environment. He might be
able to build a case here, but his choice of examples reflects an effort that is
both lazy and sloppy) are wanting (“wanting” is incorrect verb
use. Not scary smart grammar) to find the next terrific coach who can
do what these gentlemen have done. Some of our coaches that did not leave (James
Franklin/Tim Tibesar/Matt Wallerstedt), but could have (Franklin only
stuck around because he couldn’t find another job, Tibesar was promoted beyond
his wildest dreams and Wallerstedt is K-State to the core, he even grew up in
Manhattan), fit that mold and will be sought in the future. Second, the
salaries that some programs (Alabama-2.5 million pool per yr) are now paying for
asst coaches has changed (Its only semantics, but Prince’s second point
as detailed here is identical to his first point), forever, the
economic landscape and all of their direct competitors (SEC & teams they
recruit against) have taken an aggressive position "to compete/survive"
financially with them (Pat Washington going to Miss State to recruit his
hometown of Mobile, Al).
Even coaches that haven't coached a snap here
at K-State, who are excellent coaches, once identified with us, they became
targets (Wes McGriff going to Miami ). (This is Prince’s second bald
faced lie. McGriff was a hot commodity before Prince hired him. I won’t go into
details, but Prince lied to McGriff in order to get him to come to K-State over
other schools that we trying to land him.) In years to come we have
others who will be as aggressively pursued, because they are very good at what
they do and have a work-ethic that is know in our business as being a "grinder".
These coaches are no different than the young person trying to make partner in a
law, advertising or consulting firm.
If this sounds strange to you, go
back and look at coach (Should be “Coach”. Not only poor capitalization,
but also disrespectful) Snyder's tenure (and before) and you'll see
some of the best coaches in college & professional football were once asst
coaches here. (Stop the presses; Prince actually praises Snyder, the man
who gave K-State its only extended success) Some were successful and
well known here and for some it didn't work out and they had more success
elsewhere. Its part of our business. This is a major factor about being the head
coach at K-State (asst coach turnover) (This is either an admission that
Prince believes K-State is the only program that experiences high turnover,
which is both stupid and insane, or that a job at K-State is so bad it produces
high turnover. I’m not sure which belief is more disturbing if I’m a Wildcat
fan) that I knew before I took the job. Its (Should be “it’s”.
Not scary smart punctuation by Prince) my job to replace them with
other great coaches, not just guys who won't leave. I've got news for you, we
have.
Frank Leonard, who we just hired to coach the tight ends, turned
down multiple lucrative NFL coaching jobs to come to K-State this offseason for
much less. He's spent the last few years with the best football organization in
the world-the New England Patriots. He's here because he believes in what we're
doing. (More BS. Leonard is there because no other organization thought
he was capable of being a position coach. The fact that Leonard MAY have been
offered more money by NFL teams in no way means those organizations were willing
to offer him the level of responsibility Leonard wanted. That is why he is at
K-State, not because he believes in Prince)
Dave Brock, who will
coach our wr's, turned down a job to coach with Rutgers to come here (and he's
from New Jersey!) (Interesting. Considering Rutgers didn’t lose any
staff, Brock was probably offered an administrative position. I grew up in NJ
too, but I’m not moving back there for a demotion). Watch the Univ of
North Carolina in the next couple of seasons, because as recruiting coordinator,
he assembled two of the best classes in their schools' history that coach
Bunting elected to red-shirt and now Butch Davis will reap the rewards
for.
We've had coaches (Ricky Rahne and our newest defensive graduate
assistant) give up their full-time coaching jobs at other places to come and
work for free as graduate assistants here at K-State because they know we will
do it right (Or, it could be that they know that you need a Masters
degree to climb the coaching ladder and K-State was the first BCS school to
offer them the opportunity), we will win and if they work hard-they too
will advance.
All these guys are rising super stars in the business,
you've just never heard of them. You shouldn't, that's not your job-its mine.
(In case you missed it, this is Prince telling the readers that he is
smarter than they are. Its also pompous as hell)
There's no free
lunch for these coaches. We work hard, long hours with much stress and pressure.
We wouldn't have it any other way. Its (Should be “it’s”. Not scary
smart punctuation by Prince) the only way to get where we want to go.
If coaches don't or can't perform they know it causes the organization to
suffer. But they all have wives and families they must provide for and students
at K-State they are responsible to & for.
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Part 2:
3) Evaluate all aspects of
the program.
We have completed a year long evaluation of every department and
every aspect of our program. I made no changes in the support staff on our
arrival, although it was my right to do so (Prince sounds like a spoiled
child with the last part of this sentence. They’re my toys and I can do with
them as I please!!!!! Arrogant and pompous.). I did not want to come in
and fire everyone with no chance to evaluate their abilities. I'm glad that we
waited. (Huh? Prince has ostensibly fired the majority of his support
staff because they failed to perform. Why is he happy he kept a bunch of poor
performers around for an extra year?)
We have terrific people in
the support staff who are working hard and dedicated to excellence and they too
will be highly sought after. Unfortunately, we discovered some who are not and
will not. I will not go into the specifics of some of those evaluations but we
have some of the very best people I have ever been around in some areas and
unfortunately in other areas the performances has (Should be “have”. Not
scary smart grammar by Prince) been so low for so long (Indicts
Snyder for poor personnel management) that change must be
made.
I am evaluated on the performance of this organization on whole and
on game day. We are committed to being the best organization in college
football. Period. I need people who will support me in that mission. Good enough
never is. (Pretty phrase that is meaningless psycho-babble, in addition
to being pompous) The standards have been raised by the last 18 yrs and
everyone in our organization must perform his/her job for us to win.
(Another bone of praise thrown in Snyder’s
direction)
Every aspect of the program contributes to winning
and we can not accept a refusal to perform, lack of performance nor any
underminding (Should be “undermining”. Not scary smart
spelling.) of the program on any level. For example, we inherited a
team, last December (Should be “December”. Not scary smart
capitalization), in which 43 of the 85 scholarship players were on
academic warning.(Indicts Snyder for academics. Also I question to
appropriateness of releasing this sort of information to the public, not matter
how small and important the intended group of recipients is) Meaning,
if they had a repeat performance in the classroom, they could be lost, and
certainly not graduate.(Point of order. I flunked out of college twice.
Not only did I graduate, I now have a MBA. I do not, however, own my own
business……) Compound this with the players who had the football skills
to finish last (Really nice job throwing what are now his players under
the bus. At least he didn’t throw Snyder under the bus on this one, he decided
to place the blame squarely on the shoulders of his players for sucking.
Nice.), for two straight years and we only had ONE player on the entire
team that I could promote for any scholar-athlete award. Those are facts.
Changes were going to be necessary for us to survive immediately but also to
look parents in-the-eye for the recruitment of their sons. I'm proud to report,
that this december (Should be “December”. Not scary smart
capitalization), we had 6 players with a 4.0 gpa and 32 players OVER a
3.0gpa. (Okay, any way you cut this, it is REALLY bad. The first
possible interpretation is that Prince is manipulating the hell out of the
numbers. At the top of this paragraph he basically states the 42 kids were doing
okay academically, i.e. not on warning. 42 is more than 32 or 38, so there may
have been zero change in academic performance for those 42 and Prince is just
taking credit for it. The second way to interpret this sentence is that almost
50% of the team improved their GPA by somewhere between 1 and 2 full points. I
don’t care how you change work habits, when you have that many students have
that big a jump, there is probably some very serious academic fraud going
on) Those 32 were named to the Big 12 commissioner's Honor Roll. On a
team that finished 2nd in the north division in our first year! Had we not been
willing to change, we may not have been able to win a single game because so
many players may have been lost. I very proud of everyone associated with the
academic support aspect because they were able, willing & excited to face
the brutal truth and look for ways to reach our goals.
4) Set the
standards & demand compliance to them.
I know how "change-adverse" we are
in this part of the country (I'm from here) but throughout our program, we have
addressed similar issues. We have seen vast improvement (Define
improvement. In this context, merely change, whether for good or bad, can be
defined as improvement) and in other areas we have met with resistance,
coupled with a lack of performance.
Many people outside of the
organization do not know the importance of some positions and what they entail
these days because of what those roles may sounded like when they were in high
school or college many years ago. (Translation: Prince knows everything,
you people know nothing. Another pompous pronouncement) Everything we
do is important and we have taken an entire year to evaluate the job performance
of everyone.
Many people believed that there would only now be one
successful period of K-State football. In fact, most of them, didn't believe
there would ever be a successful period. (This is either more
lazy/sloppy writing, which I have my money on, or a telling insight into where
Prince perceives the problem. Per this sentence, the problem people are those
who were involved or around the program before the early 90s. In other words,
the administrators and alumni who have been around long enough to build up
either influence or enough cash to guarantee influence.) Most of them
are quick to remind me, how awful K-State was in football not so long ago. I
know! I was here! (Really? I was not aware Junction City was a suburb of
Manhattan. I’m also pretty sure Dodge City CC and Appalachian State are not
satellite campuses of KSU.) Who would want to go back to those "low
moments" and "low expectations", not me. Many of these people are refered
(Should be “referred”. Not scary smart spelling) to in the
title of Bill Snyder's book, "They said it couldn't be done."
I reject
such negativity, just as Bill Snyder did in 1988. (One more bone of
praise to Snyder. I’m sure Snyder’s cup runeth over after that
compliment) I will not submit to it and will not allow it in this
organization. Change is uncomfortable for some, I understand that. However, I'm
asking that you look at the last 14 months and as change occurs, use the
body-of-work to compare it against. People in this organization are expected and
excited to perform, bottom-line.
The 1982 Independence Bowl trophy was
not on display with all the others until we arrived. We will honor the past but
will not live in it. (Another empty and meaningless, but nevertheless,
pompous, pronouncement)
5) Plan and expect to win
We are in
the middle of our strategic planning phase for the upcoming year right now.
These 6 weeks after signing date but before spring practice are the most
important during the year. It is during this time we must decide who we will
pursue (specifically) for next year and in concept what recruits our systems
need in subsequent years. We will decide on the tactics and strategies that we
will implement for next season now, so we have the time to train, develop,
practice those methods that will help us win next year.
That kind of specific
planning and detail of agenda allows us to do a couple of things.
One) our
coaches to research all of the possible scenarios that could come up with on our
opponents (All of the possible scenarios? More pompous poppycock. If he
all likely, that would be reasonable, but that’s not good enough fro Prince. He
has to make sure you know he’s the best, even when what he’s claiming is flat
out impossible) and to compare notes with many of our colleagues who
might encounter the same. Two) allow our players to train and develop the
specific skills (So are Prince and staff violating NCAA rules, or is
Prince just trying to make conditioning sound as grandiose as possible? Not even
Prince is scary smart enough to be that blatant about violating NCAA rules, so
I’m gonna chalk this one up to pompousity) they need so we do not waste
time. For example, we were so out of shape last year, we could not sustain the
tempo of a single practice and we fell further behind the competition as many of
our players failed our basic conditioning test! It took us mid-way thru the year
to "catch-up" and we lost some valuable training and therefore game-winning
opportunities. (Game winning opportunities? Every game K-State lost was
by double digits, with the smallest margin of loss being 14 and the average
margin of loss being 19. Any game they had an opportunity to win, they won,
which is a credit to Prince. However, that does give lie to his statement that
conditioning, or, in Prince-speak, lack of skill development, let
“opportunities” slip away.) That will not happen this season.
I
have never been more excited about a team or season in my career as a player or
coach. I continue to tell recruits and coaches that K-State is the best coaching
job in the country for the following reasons and I'm determined to win at the
highest level here because of the following:
One) we have a small
(ouch) but loyal fan base that demonstrates its love for
K-State around every turn. 32K at last yrs spring game-never done before.
(No mention of the fact that the Spring game was little more than a side
event for an all day carnival and bar-b-que cook off) 30K at this
year's bowl game-has become the standard. 50k at every home game and
unbelievable support for road games. This includes our student body!
Two) we
have the best administration in the country. They have invested their time and
efforts to help recruit and support these student-athletes & coaches like no
other place in the country. Rutgers, Marshall and others consistently point to
the Jon Wefald, Kansas State model for university success. (No, they
point to Wefald as the model of university negligence, as he consistently
ignores the academics side of his job to play around in K-State
athletics.)
Three) Big 12 divisional play. We are so fortunate to
have geographical division play in our conference. We have a chance each year to
compete for the north division title. By winning that game, you are invited to
the BCS tournament. (BCS tournament?!?!?!? Does this guy even know what
planet he’s on?) That is our mission. We are putting our team together
from a talent and make-up stand point to accomplish this.
>Four) we can
attract terrific players to Manhattan/K-State. This game is about people and
their relationships (Interesting confession considering Prince burns
bridges faster than a pyromaniac with a tanker truck full of gas and a pocket
full of matches) with each other, bottom line. Talented players from
high school and junior college have come here (under the previous
administration) and there is a reputation nation-wide for the
expectation of excellence here. The kids that are in high school do not recall
the dreary old days of failure, thank goodness. They don't fear, they don't
despair. (This is Prince admonishing the recipients of the e-mail for
fearing and despairing at his actions. Little men, put your trust in Ron Prince.
He knows all. Only a little bit pompous…..) They know K-State as a
nationally respected football program. Everyone they encounter must represent
that when they visit.
In conclusion, surely there are some that would
like to see us fail. One group would be those that support our competitors'
programs. I get that, it makes sense to me. Others may like to us fail for a
variety of other reasons that are difficult to pin-down, be wary of those.
(Again, another shot at the recipients of the e-mail. The very act of
questioning Prince’s actions means that they want K-State to fail.
Pompous) However, there so many who want us and need us to succeed that
we must stay focused on those individuals. we (Should be “We”. Not scary
smart capitalization) have a plan (As does every other football
team in the country, even those with 2-10 records), we are demanding
(as is almost every other program in the country), we have
integrity (Insinuation that other programs lack integrity), we
are fair and we will continue to succeed.
Thank you for your time.
Go
State!
Ron Prince
Head Football Coach
Kansas State University
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What a fag.
-
He seriously went line-by-line on that thing?
I wonder if Prince will post a rebuttal. :)
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This is my favorite "NJHawkRedux-ism"
If he all likely, that would be reasonable, but that’s not good enough fro Prince.
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This is my favorite "NJHawkRedux-ism"
If he all likely, that would be reasonable, but that’s not good enough fro Prince.
INCORRECT GRAMMAR ALERT!
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That was one of the most pathetic things I've ever read. Forget any kind of criticism regarding his critiques, that was just pathetic. And we aren't their rivals.