KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: dubnation on January 22, 2009, 01:06:37 AM
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It comes to a point when you have to look at whats going on out on the court. The offense is the same damn play everytime down We have no movement on offense which leads to no driving lanes or passing lanes and that leads to turnovers. your strength is your guards well turn them loose let them attack and get them bigs out of the post so they have more room to work. you may call me crazy but our deffense is the reason that we are losing our get in your face man to man is ok but you have Kent and Colon playing tight man to man beyond the three point line why? they are to slow, can't recover, can't help the guards on screens you are setting them up for failure.
Starting line up should be
Pullen: lead guard has better court awareness will get the big men involved off of penetration and dishes
Clemente: likes to slash and create for himself not looking to pass not a true PG
Sutton: Put him on the block more have him flash more in the middle use him to his strengths
Samuel: he plays the blocks well he will bang and get boards
Colon: all effort he not great at anything bot he will give you effort sometimes thats what you need
deffense should be Fullcourt man to man then if they get it into half court we drop in to a 1-3-1 or 3-2 this will help protect our bigs and make it hard for teams to shoot the three but until they do that we will get back doored and constantly beaten by the 3pt shot
and the only people that play off the bench is Kent Anderson Brown and Awaji 9 players the other players are cheerleaders thats it
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I agree with the majority of your post excpet teh defense. the 1/3/1 would be better with full court press and man d needs to be used less, we need more looks that lock up outside shooters. we got owned hard tonight because of that.
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I pretty much agree with you. I'd like to see pressing and some deeper bench play. The S-boys need to be in the starting lineup. When you don't have the talent to compete, you can at least try to outrun people.
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Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.
For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL. TIA
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Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.
For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL. TIA
pfffttt
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Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.
For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL. TIA
FYI, a former assistant basketball coach under KSU hall-of-famers who still lives in Manhattan agrees with your assessment. Pretty much word-for-word, including the fact Clemente is apparently not getting any coaching.
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deffense should be Fullcourt man to man then if they get it into half court we drop in to a 1-3-1 or 3-2
so you're suggesting running a full court press until they dribble to 1/2 court, then instantly morphing into a zone, good teams would have trouble doing this and not allowing easy buckets let alone our team :cyclist:
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Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.
For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL. TIA
pfffttt
qft. It's like these morons don't even watch the games. (old fart loserbag coaches included)
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Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.
For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL. TIA
pfffttt
qft. It's like these morons don't even watch the games. (old fart loserbag coaches included)
Rustyksucat . . . how is the defense of all things Frank going over on phog.net??
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But you gotta run Pick and Roll!
With who you ask, and to what end? NONSENSE YOU JUST RUN IT!
If it was good enough for John Stockton, it's good enough for K-State.
As for the standing around nonsense, Baylor players stood around on offense just as much as ours did. Non every offense in the world is like the motion offense.
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The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open. Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open. But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times. :rolleyes:
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The offense was actually decent last night. Just not good enough to overcome ridiculous shooting/bad defense.
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Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.
For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL. TIA
pfffttt
qft. It's like these morons don't even watch the games. (old fart loserbag coaches included)
clemente needs to go? wtf? maybe the most retarded statement i've read on this board since i first joined
pick and roll? did you not see wtf clemente and kent were doing last night? did you idiots think it was the do-si-do.
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The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open. Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open. But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times. :rolleyes:
If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:
1. We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning. I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year. Make them walk away bruised from the game.
2. The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad. If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.
3. '08 class
4. Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands? :dunno:
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The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open. Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open. But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times. :rolleyes:
If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:
1. We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning. I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year. Make them walk away bruised from the game.
2. The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad. If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.
3. '08 class
4. Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands? :dunno:
On point #1; fatigue will often show more and more as confidence disappears. This team badly needs something good to happen to it. Badly.
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The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open. Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open. But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times. :rolleyes:
If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:
1. We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning. I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year. Make them walk away bruised from the game.
2. The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad. If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.
3. '08 class
4. Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands? :dunno:
I pretty much agree w/ that. They don't seem to play hard, (like they did against Kentucky).
The only thing I would add to the criticism is the slow pace. They absolutely need more transition offense. Even after made baskets. I get so pissed when the guy closest to the ball just lets it bounce after a make, and Clemente just stands around waiting on Kent or somebody to throw it in.
But mainly, just run run run.
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When Sutton pulled the ball out during transition and the announcer was all, "Smart move by Dominique Sutton" I was all, "Dumb move by Dominique Sutton".
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The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open. Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open. But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times. :rolleyes:
If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:
1. We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning. I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year. Make them walk away bruised from the game.
2. The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad. If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.
3. '08 class
4. Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands? :dunno:
I pretty much agree w/ that. They don't seem to play hard, (like they did against Kentucky).
The only thing I would add to the criticism is the slow pace. They absolutely need more transition offense. Even after made baskets. I get so pissed when the guy closest to the ball just lets it bounce after a make, and Clemente just stands around waiting on Kent or somebody to throw it in.
But mainly, just run run run.
I would love to run run run, but from what I have seen the last few weeks, is that they can't physically. I don't know what has happened, but they get very winded. Our legs seemed shot after the Kentucky game. I wonder if Frank may be working them TOO hard in practice??
I would still be OK with that, if it pays dividends next year.
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The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open. Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open. But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times. :rolleyes:
If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:
1. We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning. I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year. Make them walk away bruised from the game.
2. The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad. If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.
3. '08 class
4. Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands? :dunno:
I pretty much agree w/ that. They don't seem to play hard, (like they did against Kentucky).
The only thing I would add to the criticism is the slow pace. They absolutely need more transition offense. Even after made baskets. I get so pissed when the guy closest to the ball just lets it bounce after a make, and Clemente just stands around waiting on Kent or somebody to throw it in.
But mainly, just run run run.
The funny thing is when we played well early vs OU we pushed the ball no matter what. But it was mainly with the pass. We would rebound a make or miss, outlet, and get the ball up the floor to half court without a dribble. Obviously teams are going to and can take that away. So one complaint with Frank would be to find other ways to accomplish this task; we are going to be much better off getting the ball into our side of the floor within 5 seconds of the shot clock and looking to attack than getting into a position to start the offense or secondary within 10 seconds. This team definately can't slow down and try to play out of its offense.
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One more thing...
We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background. And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc. But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching". Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be. I think for example many don't buy Frank's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played". Or they played in a different uptempo style. Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc. There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.
This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Frank, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Franks sucks as a coach" posts. And really in any comments you read on a message board. Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.
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This Team is not being coached well
I said it last night...
(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ilsu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_action/1539898.jpeg)
Call him
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One more thing...
We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background. And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc. But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching". Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be. I think for example many don't buy Frank's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played". Or they played in a different uptempo style. Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc. There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.
This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Frank, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Franks sucks as a coach" posts. And really in any comments you read on a message board. Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.
:lol:
:powertard:
j/k
:gocho:
You have put into words what I wish I could coherently get across.
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This Team is not being coached well
I said it last night...
(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ilsu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_action/1539898.jpeg)
Call him
Didn't he get beat by WSU last night :confused: DO NOT WANT
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One more thing...
We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background. And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc. But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching". Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be. I think for example many don't buy Frank's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played". Or they played in a different uptempo style. Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc. There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.
This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Frank, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Franks sucks as a coach" posts. And really in any comments you read on a message board. Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.
I think it's much simpler than that. Teams w/ good players, or teams w/ bad players that run a "princeton" offense, are "well coached" in the eyes of the (dumb) fans.
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did gpc shut down or something?
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For the sake of the message board, could all gripes be put into one giant thread, that way we can just ignore 1 thread instead of 10?
tia
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did gpc shut down or something?
Much worse there.
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It is plainly clear to me that Frank is not a great coach, and I think everyone who is not a Franktard can admit this. Frank is not well-rounded enough to have his team look good regardless of the circumstances. (Example: our conference record is going to be brutal this year.) Would be nice to have another great coach someday -- the kind that can lead us to the Final Four. Oh well.
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As bad as the offense is I think the biggest problem is on D. Over and over high major teams shoot 50 plus percent on us. We're over aggressive and extend our defense way to far on the floor which spreads us out. IT's either a lay up in the lane or a wide open 3 and it's been happening all year going back to the Kentucky game. I mean Kentucky shot like 70% against us or something stupid like that. Every team we've played at some point has started dialing stuff up to take advantage of our blind aggression. Oregon is awful I mean flat awful and they started back dooring us like crazy in the second half.
Frank always talks about the way he wants to guard and how it's takes longer to learn but at some point it just gets stupid. Either his players are not good enough for system, he's not coaching the system well enough, or the system just plain doens't work. My guess is it's a combination of all three things; his system requires really good players we don't have, he does a poor job of coaching and teaching it, and it's not the best system to defend teams that have big 12 level talent.
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It is plainly clear to me that Frank is not a great coach, and I think everyone who is not a Franktard can admit this.
I'd agree, but I've said before, there's maybe five high major coaches like that in the country. Everyone else wins/loses strictly based on talent.
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As bad as the offense is I think the biggest problem is on D. Over and over high major teams shoot 50 plus percent on us. We're over aggressive and extend our defense way to far on the floor which spreads us out. IT's either a lay up in the lane or a wide open 3 and it's been happening all year going back to the Kentucky game. I mean Kentucky shot like 70% against us or something stupid like that. Every team we've played at some point has started dialing stuff up to take advantage of our blind aggression. Oregon is awful I mean flat awful and they started back dooring us like crazy in the second half.
Frank always talks about the way he wants to guard and how it's takes longer to learn but at some point it just gets stupid. Either his players are not good enough for system, he's not coaching the system well enough, or the system just plain doens't work. My guess is it's a combination of all three things; his system requires really good players we don't have, he does a poor job of coaching and teaching it, and it's not the best system to defend teams that have big 12 level talent.
Frank is not a "great coach". No doubt. They're rare.
And I agree with most of this assessment, definately doesn't have the complete roster to defend the way he wants and now teams are pretty much dicing us up. So he has a choice; go to some half court based defense with some ball pressure but mainly defend the paint man (like Wooly essentually) or continue to try to coach like he believes. Its pretty clear Frank is choosing to sink or swim with what he believes and fortunately for him he's got some guys coming to buy him time. We'll see if it works long term, but clearly its going to be a long one this year. I'll give him some time.
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Would be nice to have another great coach someday -- the kind that can lead us to the Final Four. Oh well.
What do you mean "another"? Huggins is by far the best we've had in my lifetime and that was a very special situation that lasted one year. Hartman never made a final 4. Kruger never made a final 4. Altman (55% winning percentage) and everyone after him until Hugs sucked balls. Does your time machine go back to Winter?
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Good lord folks, Frank is in only his 2nd year as a major division 1 college coach. And yes I don't think he is doing the greatest job at gameplanning or changing what's not working but there has to be a learning curve and last year gets thrown out due to the Beasley/Walker factor. Any retard on a message board could win games with those guys on the floor. Martin is learning and I hope in the next 2-3 years will know what to do with a bunch of average players when that situation comes around.
I can think of a perfect example of where coaching is not the whole problem. last night Celmente jumps into the air at the top of the arch and throws a rocket to the ankles of pullen who is 3 ft away. Now in all the camps and coaches I have been to or around none have ever shown me that pass so I'm assuming Clemente did this on his own. This is only one example of things I'm sure Martin did not teach these players, and by the look on his face after such plays only further solidifies my feeling on the subject.
On a good note we held our turn overs down last night. :thumbsup: Baylor is just a lot better then us!
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when I say coaching is the problem I mean when what you want to do is not working what do you do to adapt to the team your playing because pressing a team with 4 ballhandlers is rather dumb, doubling down off of the hottest shooter in the game is dumb, everyone did it so that had to be coaching what they was told to do, and your best guard and scorer is not heavily involved in the offense plays aren't ran for him until the clock runs down under 10sec. if a team is pick and rolling you to death and getting to the basket at will and you don't tell the team to jump the screen or hedge the dribbler but in stead you do the same thing the whole game that wasn't working thats coaching. believe me I can go on. and who ever said it is only 5 coaches that can coach needs to watch other teams play and watch there schemes and see changes during the game and then come back to the board and apologize
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when I say coaching is the problem I mean when what you want to do is not working what do you do to adapt to the team your playing because pressing a team with 4 ballhandlers is rather dumb, doubling down off of the hottest shooter in the game is dumb, everyone did it so that had to be coaching what they was told to do, and your best guard and scorer is not heavily involved in the offense plays aren't ran for him until the clock runs down under 10sec. if a team is pick and rolling you to death and getting to the basket at will and you don't tell the team to jump the screen or hedge the dribbler but in stead you do the same thing the whole game that wasn't working thats coaching. believe me I can go on. and who ever said it is only 5 coaches that can coach needs to watch other teams play and watch there schemes and see changes during the game and then come back to the board and apologize
He defended the pick and roll multiple ways...going under the pick, hedging, and trapping. He also tried zone.
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when I say coaching is the problem I mean when what you want to do is not working what do you do to adapt to the team your playing because pressing a team with 4 ballhandlers is rather dumb, doubling down off of the hottest shooter in the game is dumb, everyone did it so that had to be coaching what they was told to do, and your best guard and scorer is not heavily involved in the offense plays aren't ran for him until the clock runs down under 10sec. if a team is pick and rolling you to death and getting to the basket at will and you don't tell the team to jump the screen or hedge the dribbler but in stead you do the same thing the whole game that wasn't working thats coaching. believe me I can go on. and who ever said it is only 5 coaches that can coach needs to watch other teams play and watch there schemes and see changes during the game and then come back to the board and apologize
Relative or former coach of Jake?
And granted you make some decent points about the coaching issues, but are the players ever at fault? At least partially? I've always been of the opinion that the fault lies somewhere in the middle between coaches and players.
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doubling down off of the hottest shooter in the game is dumb, everyone did it.
pretty sure that not a single 3 dunn got was off his man doubling down. if there was, it was only once.
he got open off late rotations, poor rotations, in the zone when samuels got caught too far down, out of the broken press and off broken plays/off. boards. pretty much every way except having his man double down.
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I think it's much simpler than that. Teams w/ good players, or teams w/ bad players that run a "princeton" offense, are "well coached" in the eyes of the (dumb) fans.
fans like motion offenses and princeton type sets. they love open posts and backdoors. basically, they like movement and pretty.
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I think it's much simpler than that. Teams w/ good players, or teams w/ bad players that run a "princeton" offense, are "well coached" in the eyes of the (dumb) fans.
fans like motion offenses and princeton type sets. they love open posts and backdoors. basically, they like movement and pretty.
It helps LBBIQ types know something is happening.
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doubling down off of the hottest shooter in the game is dumb, everyone did it.
pretty sure that not a single 3 dunn got was off his man doubling down. if there was, it was only once.
he got open off late rotations, poor rotations, in the zone when samuels got caught too far down, out of the broken press and off broken plays/off. boards. pretty much every way except having his man double down.
He got a couple as a result of trapping the pick n roll. but that was rotations, like you said.
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One more thing...
We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background. And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc. But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching". Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be. I think for example many don't buy Wooly's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played". Or they played in a different uptempo style. Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc. There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.
This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Wooly, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Wooly sucks as a coach" posts. And really in any comments you read on a message board. Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.
Did you recycle that?
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For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
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For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
tells you nothing. we don't have players to execute the things needed to have a positive a-to ratio.
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For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
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Last three games:
Baylor:
Pullen 2 of 8
Clemente 7 of 19
Brown 0 fer 1
Nebraska:
Pullen 1 of 7
Clemente 5 of 14
Brown 1 of 1
Kansas:
Pullen 5 of 15
Clemente 3 of 13
Brown 4 of 10
I'm SHOCKED the assist numbers sucked.
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Yeah, it's really hard to have more assists than turnovers when you have more turnovers than field goal makes. It's practically impossible.
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Im not a friens or coach im a fan and you look at any team and you see there best players put i situations they can succeed at. show me a play that has been ran to get your guards open shots other then one on one drive and dishes thats not coaching thats sitting back watching aau ball when you have big men that can score you play sf and sg on wings pf and C on the blocks and when you are guard heavy and not post presence you run motion to get driving lanes for shots or passing lanes look at duke thats the type of movement we need we may not get their results all the time but the shots we get would be a lot better. hell you have kent anderson and colon they wouldn't see the court for any other big 12 team so why we running the same plays we did for beasley and walker. I don't hate frank but I think he is stubborn and needs to look into changing some things. everyone waiting for next year the coaching will be the same but the talent will be better then the coach so some of his dumb decisions will be over looked. and he has been here two years and still hasnt set his rotation we are not deep so we need our best players out there to compete
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As bad as the offense is I think the biggest problem is on D. Over and over high major teams shoot 50 plus percent on us. We're over aggressive and extend our defense way to far on the floor which spreads us out. IT's either a lay up in the lane or a wide open 3 and it's been happening all year going back to the Kentucky game. I mean Kentucky shot like 70% against us or something stupid like that. Every team we've played at some point has started dialing stuff up to take advantage of our blind aggression. Oregon is awful I mean flat awful and they started back dooring us like crazy in the second half.
Frank always talks about the way he wants to guard and how it's takes longer to learn but at some point it just gets stupid. Either his players are not good enough for system, he's not coaching the system well enough, or the system just plain doens't work. My guess is it's a combination of all three things; his system requires really good players we don't have, he does a poor job of coaching and teaching it, and it's not the best system to defend teams that have big 12 level talent.
Frank is not a "great coach". No doubt. They're rare.
And I agree with most of this assessment, definately doesn't have the complete roster to defend the way he wants and now teams are pretty much dicing us up. So he has a choice; go to some half court based defense with some ball pressure but mainly defend the paint man (like Wooly essentually) or continue to try to coach like he believes. Its pretty clear Frank is choosing to sink or swim with what he believes and fortunately for him he's got some guys coming to buy him time. We'll see if it works long term, but clearly its going to be a long one this year. I'll give him some time.
I agree with your assessment. And I think Frank plays a lot of games with a mind on the future and what his teams will need to do rather than what they need right now. Kind of like how we complained about sub patterns last year or who got minutes or who sat, but all of those decisions seemed like they were more for what was on the horizon. I wish they'd had a little more results, but this season is kind of a wash right now anyway.
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As bad as the offense is I think the biggest problem is on D. Over and over high major teams shoot 50 plus percent on us. We're over aggressive and extend our defense way to far on the floor which spreads us out. IT's either a lay up in the lane or a wide open 3 and it's been happening all year going back to the Kentucky game. I mean Kentucky shot like 70% against us or something stupid like that. Every team we've played at some point has started dialing stuff up to take advantage of our blind aggression. Oregon is awful I mean flat awful and they started back dooring us like crazy in the second half.
Frank always talks about the way he wants to guard and how it's takes longer to learn but at some point it just gets stupid. Either his players are not good enough for system, he's not coaching the system well enough, or the system just plain doens't work. My guess is it's a combination of all three things; his system requires really good players we don't have, he does a poor job of coaching and teaching it, and it's not the best system to defend teams that have big 12 level talent.
Frank is not a "great coach". No doubt. They're rare.
And I agree with most of this assessment, definately doesn't have the complete roster to defend the way he wants and now teams are pretty much dicing us up. So he has a choice; go to some half court based defense with some ball pressure but mainly defend the paint man (like Wooly essentually) or continue to try to coach like he believes. Its pretty clear Frank is choosing to sink or swim with what he believes and fortunately for him he's got some guys coming to buy him time. We'll see if it works long term, but clearly its going to be a long one this year. I'll give him some time.
I agree with your assessment. And I think Frank plays a lot of games with a mind on the future and what his teams will need to do rather than what they need right now. Kind of like how we complained about sub patterns last year or who got minutes or who sat, but all of those decisions seemed like they were more for what was on the horizon. I wish they'd had a little more results, but this season is kind of a wash right now anyway.
Its just a weird situation with Frank. In some ways this is sort of like his first year and he has to battle whether to fit the players to his system or fit his system to the players. Last year you just fit everything to Beasley and to a lesser extent Walker, but this year its different. So the question becomes is he inept or is he "getting worse to get better" and trying to make guys fit a system that doesn't fit their skills.
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For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
love reading this retards posts :lol: so angry and stupid :lol:
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
opcat?
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For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
When you say crap like this do you really expect any fan to take you seriously. I hope for your sake that you are someone's bad sock.
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
love reading this retards posts :lol: so angry and stupid :lol:
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
When you say crap like this do you really expect any fan to take you seriously. I hope for your sake that you are someone's bad sock.
Nope, no sock here. Just a ksu alumn that thinks Frank is so far in over his head. Just like Prince.
Its a major gamble when you hire inexperienced coaches like Frank. Hell even Prince had more experience than Frank
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For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
When you say crap like this do you really expect any fan to take you seriously. I hope for your sake that you are someone's bad sock.
Nope, no sock here. Just a ksu alumn that thinks Frank is so far in over his head. Just like Prince.
Its a major gamble when you hire inexperienced coaches like Frank. Hell even Prince had more experience than Frank
I suppose I can handle that. Just say that if that's your opinion; your need to reference race in nearly half your posts is dumb.
And Prince didn't have 'Te. The discussions about Frank must always have 'Te tied to them. The two go together.
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
When you say crap like this do you really expect any fan to take you seriously. I hope for your sake that you are someone's bad sock.
Nope, no sock here. Just a ksu alumn that thinks Frank is so far in over his head. Just like Prince.
Its a major gamble when you hire inexperienced coaches like Frank. Hell even Prince had more experience than Frank
Yeah we should get Wooly back he has experience. Who the frack are we going to get in here who has experience? Bob Knight, you think he is looking for a job yet? We have recruits comming next year give the guy a couple of years. We need to see how he reacts and if he can start to turn the corner.
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
love reading this retards posts :lol: so angry and stupid :lol:
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
love reading this retards posts :lol: so angry and stupid :lol:
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
Ur right Steve, we COULD go 12-0 from here on out. The odds are in our favor for sure, right.
What excuse are we going to use when we dont win a game this year?
Blaming it on the schedule looks more pathetic as the season goes on.
But hey, were a smart fanbase, im sure we'll come up with another "excuse for sucking".
Has a HOF coach ever gone 0-16 in conf. before?
-
For the first time in two weeks, the Wildcats finished with more assists (11) than turnovers (10). That brings their four-game assist-turnover ratio to 36-68.
This stat -- maybe more than any other -- positively reeks of lame-ass coaching. It's shocking.
I disagree with that statment. Martin is not out there dribbling off of his foot and throwing rocket passes to the ankles of fellow teammates.
Who recruited and brought DC and JP to Kstate you dumb f***?
Jesus this fanbase can make more f'n excuses than an out of work black person.
This is starting to remind me of the Princetards making "excuses" for the teams piss poor performance.
When its all said and done (after we finish 3-13) the blame will fall soley on FrackFaceFrank.
love reading this retards posts :lol: so angry and stupid :lol:
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
Ur right Steve, we COULD go 12-0 from here on out. The odds are in our favor for sure, right.
What excuse are we going to use when we dont win a game this year?
Blaming it on the schedule looks more pathetic as the season goes on.
But hey, were a smart fanbase, im sure we'll come up with another "excuse for sucking".
Has a HOF coach ever gone 0-16 in conf. before?
Well... some of us are smart anyway.
-
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
Ur right Steve, we COULD go 12-0 from here on out. The odds are in our favor for sure, right.
What excuse are we going to use when we dont win a game this year?
Blaming it on the schedule looks more pathetic as the season goes on.
But hey, were a smart fanbase, im sure we'll come up with another "excuse for sucking".
Has a HOF coach ever gone 0-16 in conf. before?
I never said we'd be good this season. I said we'd be mediocre. In actuality we are less than mediocre. Doesn't change the fact that you are hilariously racist and angry bro.
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plz, some admin needs to change his avatar to a white hood. tia
-
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
Ur right Steve, we COULD go 12-0 from here on out. The odds are in our favor for sure, right.
What excuse are we going to use when we dont win a game this year?
Blaming it on the schedule looks more pathetic as the season goes on.
But hey, were a smart fanbase, im sure we'll come up with another "excuse for sucking".
Has a HOF coach ever gone 0-16 in conf. before?
I never said we'd be good this season. I said we'd be mediocre. In actuality we are less than mediocre. Doesn't change the fact that you are hilariously racist and angry bro.
I am angry. Angry as hell at our athletic administration. No other athletic department in this conf. screws up more than ours.
And do people honestly believe that if Huggy wouldnt have left, that FM would be a head coach anywhere in Div 1 bball? Hell no.
But sure, we'll hire him.
I guess the blame goes more on Huggy than anyone. First off, if it wouldnt have been for Huggy NOBODY at ksu or even the big 12 conf. would even know who the frack FM is, let alone offer him a HC job. Secondly, if Huggy wouldnt have jumped ship, our AD wouldnt have been forced to choose between keeping the supposed top ranked recruiting class (which meant hiring a head coach way in over his head) or finding an EXPERIENCED head coach (and potentially losing the class).
And please Franktards, dont tell me there isnt any decent EXPERIENCED coaches in this country anymore.
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And please Franktards, dont tell me there isnt any decent EXPERIENCED coaches in this country anymore.
There are plenty, and I dont' want them (except for a select few that we couldn't land anyway). As long as talent keeps signing we will get much better. Of this I can assure you. Worst case scenario is we hire Jank in a few years.
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Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
Ur right Steve, we COULD go 12-0 from here on out. The odds are in our favor for sure, right.
What excuse are we going to use when we dont win a game this year?
Blaming it on the schedule looks more pathetic as the season goes on.
But hey, were a smart fanbase, im sure we'll come up with another "excuse for sucking".
Has a HOF coach ever gone 0-16 in conf. before?
I never said we'd be good this season. I said we'd be mediocre. In actuality we are less than mediocre. Doesn't change the fact that you are hilariously racist and angry bro.
I am angry. Angry as hell at our athletic administration. No other athletic department in this conf. screws up more than ours.
And do people honestly believe that if Huggy wouldnt have left, that FM would be a head coach anywhere in Div 1 bball? Hell no.
But sure, we'll hire him.
I guess the blame goes more on Huggy than anyone. First off, if it wouldnt have been for Huggy NOBODY at ksu or even the big 12 conf. would even know who the frack FM is, let alone offer him a HC job. Secondly, if Huggy wouldnt have jumped ship, our AD wouldnt have been forced to choose between keeping the supposed top ranked recruiting class (which meant hiring a head coach way in over his head) or finding an EXPERIENCED head coach (and potentially losing the class).
And please Franktards, dont tell me there isnt any decent EXPERIENCED coaches in this country anymore.
No one ever thought otherwise about Frank in regards to his ability to get a job when Huggs left.
But the question is where would we be right now if we hadn't have hired Frank/'Te? Seriously, think about that one.
-
Steve, if you wanna talk about stupid, how about your classic preseason bball prediction.
What was it again?
Oh, thats right, 12-4 conf. followed by a NCAA birth.
Next
:lol:
Ur right Steve, we COULD go 12-0 from here on out. The odds are in our favor for sure, right.
What excuse are we going to use when we dont win a game this year?
Blaming it on the schedule looks more pathetic as the season goes on.
But hey, were a smart fanbase, im sure we'll come up with another "excuse for sucking".
Has a HOF coach ever gone 0-16 in conf. before?
I never said we'd be good this season. I said we'd be mediocre. In actuality we are less than mediocre. Doesn't change the fact that you are hilariously racist and angry bro.
I am angry. Angry as hell at our athletic administration. No other athletic department in this conf. screws up more than ours.
And do people honestly believe that if Huggy wouldnt have left, that FM would be a head coach anywhere in Div 1 bball? Hell no.
But sure, we'll hire him.
I guess the blame goes more on Huggy than anyone. First off, if it wouldnt have been for Huggy NOBODY at ksu or even the big 12 conf. would even know who the frack FM is, let alone offer him a HC job. Secondly, if Huggy wouldnt have jumped ship, our AD wouldnt have been forced to choose between keeping the supposed top ranked recruiting class (which meant hiring a head coach way in over his head) or finding an EXPERIENCED head coach (and potentially losing the class).
And please Franktards, dont tell me there isnt any decent EXPERIENCED coaches in this country anymore.
No one ever thought otherwise about Frank in regards to his ability to get a job when Huggs left.
But the question is where would we be right now if we hadn't have hired Frank/'Te? Seriously, think about that one.
Exactly...we'd have hired some Doc Sadler type...B-Easy woulda gone somewhere else... (no NCAA or NIT in 2008) and 5 years from now we'd be playing .500 b-ball with no-names mixed in with horizon league all-stars...
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.500 the right way. big difference.
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.500 the right way. big difference.
LOL
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And please Franktards, dont tell me there isnt any decent EXPERIENCED coaches in this country anymore.
[/quote]
There are experienced coaches out there no doubt but non that want to come into this job. Our administartions in in the crapper, if Frank leaves so does 'te as well as the recruits. So there we are sitting in the same spot with a new coach mediocer recruiting and middle to bottom of the big 12.
I am not sold that Martin is the best guy for the job either but I'm giving him a few years. As long as the talent next year is as good as adveritised and he can get them to win and competet for a big 12 championship in a couple of years I'm happy. If after they have the talent and he hasn't done any better than sliding into 3rd place in the big 12 then maybe I will call for him to find a new job.
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he hasn't done any better than sliding into 3rd place in the big 12 then maybe I will call for him to find a new job.
I would be freakin' stoked to slide into third place in the Big 12 :love:
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he hasn't done any better than sliding into 3rd place in the big 12 then maybe I will call for him to find a new job.
I would be freakin' stoked to slide into third place in the Big 12 :love:
As would I but if the talent is as good as it should be Martin should be competing for 1st place instead of getting 3rd because nobody else is very good. And I am taking about next year or 2011 because there is not sliding into 3rd place with an 0-4 start unless this team starts to eat there wheaties.
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he hasn't done any better than sliding into 3rd place in the big 12 then maybe I will call for him to find a new job.
I would be freakin' stoked to slide into third place in the Big 12 :love:
As would I but if the talent is as good as it should be Martin should be competing for 1st place instead of getting 3rd because nobody else is very good. And I am taking about next year or 2011 because there is not sliding into 3rd place with an 0-4 start unless this team starts to eat there wheaties.
No. Top half would be cool. OU, ku, BU, and UT will all clearly have more talent than KSU.
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No. Top half would be cool. OU, ku, BU, and UT will all clearly have more talent than KSU.
:curse:
would have been a great post to get my retard/talent thread off the ground.
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No. Top half would be cool. OU, ku, BU, and UT will all clearly have more talent than KSU.
:curse:
would have been a great post to get my retard/talent thread off the ground.
lp?
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no idea what lp means.
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no idea what lp means.
link please.
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gmafbp.
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botp
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Frank and Te can recruit. That is all that is required right now. :users:
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Frank and Te can recruit. That is all that is required right now. :users:
At some point coaching that world beater talent will come into affect. Or in Franks case, probably not.
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Frank and Te can recruit. That is all that is required right now. :users:
i guess.....
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Frank and Te can recruit. That is all that is required right now. :users:
totally agree. no matter how crapty a coach one might be, eventually if u keep recruiting awesome u end up with 5 nba draft picks who can win a title. like bill self did.