This Team is not being coached well

[dubnation]

It  comes to a point when you have to look at whats going on out on the court. The offense is the same damn play everytime down We have no movement on offense which leads to no driving lanes or passing lanes and that leads to turnovers. your strength is your guards well turn them loose let them attack and get them bigs out of the post so they have more room to work. you may call me crazy but our deffense is the reason that we are losing our get in your face man to man is ok but you have Kent and Colon playing tight man to man beyond the three point line why? they are to slow, can't recover, can't help the guards on screens you are setting them up for failure.

Starting line up should be
Pullen: lead guard has better court awareness will get the big men involved off of penetration and dishes
Clemente: likes to slash and create for himself not looking to pass not a true PG
Sutton: Put him on the block more have him flash more in the middle use him to his strengths
Samuel: he plays the blocks well he will bang and get boards
Colon: all effort he not great at anything bot he will give you effort sometimes thats what you need

deffense should be Fullcourt man to man then if they get it into half court we drop in to a 1-3-1 or 3-2 this will help protect our bigs and make it hard for teams to shoot the three but until they do that we will get back doored and constantly beaten by the 3pt shot
and  the only people that play off the bench is Kent Anderson Brown and Awaji 9 players the other players are cheerleaders thats it

[ednksu]

I agree with the majority of your post excpet teh defense.  the 1/3/1 would be better with full court press and man d needs to be used less, we need more looks that lock up outside shooters.  we got owned hard tonight because of that.

[PCR]

I pretty much agree with you.  I'd like to see pressing and some deeper bench play.  The S-boys need to be in the starting lineup.  When you don't have the talent to compete, you can at least try to outrun people. 

[Paul11]

Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.

For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL.  TIA

[steve dave]

Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.

For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL.  TIA

pfffttt

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.

For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL.  TIA

FYI, a former assistant basketball coach under KSU hall-of-famers who still lives in Manhattan agrees with your assessment.  Pretty much word-for-word, including the fact Clemente is apparently not getting any coaching.

[thefridge]

deffense should be Fullcourt man to man then if they get it into half court we drop in to a 1-3-1 or 3-2

so you're suggesting running a full court press until they dribble to 1/2 court, then instantly morphing into a zone, good teams would have trouble doing this and not allowing easy buckets let alone our team 

[michigancat]

Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.

For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL.  TIA

pfffttt

qft.  It's like these morons don't even watch the games.  (old fart loserbag coaches included)

[sonofdaxjones]

Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.

For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL.  TIA

pfffttt

qft.  It's like these morons don't even watch the games.  (old fart loserbag coaches included)

Rustyksucat . . . how is the defense of all things Frank going over on phog.net??

[Chingon]

But you gotta run Pick and Roll!

With who you ask, and to what end?  NONSENSE YOU JUST RUN IT!

If it was good enough for John Stockton, it's good enough for K-State.

As for the standing around nonsense, Baylor players stood around on offense just as much as ours did.  Non every offense in the world is like the motion offense.

[sonofdaxjones]

The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open.  Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open.   But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times.   

[michigancat]

The offense was actually decent last night.  Just not good enough to overcome ridiculous shooting/bad defense.

[mcmwcat]

Clemente needs to go. This team sucks at running an offense. It is awful to watch as a basketball purist. It is AAU garbage. We can't run on anyone in the Big 12.

For the love of god-RUN A PICK AND ROLL.  TIA

pfffttt

qft.  It's like these morons don't even watch the games.  (old fart loserbag coaches included)

clemente needs to go?  wtf?  maybe the most retarded statement i've read on this board since i first joined

pick and roll?  did you not see wtf clemente and kent were doing last night?  did you idiots think it was the do-si-do.

[Chingon]

The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open.  Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open.   But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times.   

If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
 
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:

1.  We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning.  I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year.  Make them walk away bruised from the game.

2.  The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad.  If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.

3.  '08 class

4.  Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands?

[ksu_FAN]

The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open.  Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open.   But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times.   

If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
 
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:

1.  We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning.  I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year.  Make them walk away bruised from the game.

2.  The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad.  If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.

3.  '08 class

4.  Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands?

On point #1; fatigue will often show more and more as confidence disappears.  This team badly needs something good to happen to it.  Badly.

[michigancat]

The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open.  Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open.   But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times.   

If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
 
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:

1.  We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning.  I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year.  Make them walk away bruised from the game.

2.  The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad.  If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.

3.  '08 class

4.  Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands?

I pretty much agree w/ that.  They don't seem to play hard, (like they did against Kentucky).

The only thing I would add to the criticism is the slow pace.  They absolutely need more transition offense.  Even after made baskets.  I get so pissed when the guy closest to the ball just lets it bounce after a make, and Clemente just stands around waiting on Kent or somebody to throw it in.

But mainly, just run run run.

[steve dave]

When Sutton pulled the ball out during transition and the announcer was all, "Smart move by Dominique Sutton" I was all, "Dumb move by Dominique Sutton". 

[Chingon]

The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open.  Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open.   But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times.   

If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
 
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:

1.  We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning.  I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year.  Make them walk away bruised from the game.

2.  The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad.  If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.

3.  '08 class

4.  Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands?

I pretty much agree w/ that.  They don't seem to play hard, (like they did against Kentucky).

The only thing I would add to the criticism is the slow pace.  They absolutely need more transition offense.  Even after made baskets.  I get so pissed when the guy closest to the ball just lets it bounce after a make, and Clemente just stands around waiting on Kent or somebody to throw it in.

But mainly, just run run run.

I would love to run run run, but from what I have seen the last few weeks, is that they can't physically.  I don't know what has happened, but they get very winded.  Our legs seemed shot after the Kentucky game.  I wonder if Frank may be working them TOO hard in practice??

I would still be OK with that, if it pays dividends next year.

[ksu_FAN]

The Baylor players could stand around . . . then all they had to do was run a simple little screen and somebody was wide open.  Or all they had to do was have the guard penetrate a little and dish, and somebody was wide open.   But hey, Frank did switch defenses a couple of times.   

If I though Frank was a lost cause I would call for his head.
 
In anticipation of dax's strawmen here are things I am currently critical of Frank about, but not to the point where I make a post in every single basketball thread:

1.  We look tired out there, which I hope is not a sign of poor conditioning.  I was hoping at the very least we would out-muscle and "thug" teams this year.  Make them walk away bruised from the game.

2.  The team lets themselves get too caught up in the moment, for good and bad.  If the team gets down their confidence plummets to the point where effort seems to suffer.

3.  '08 class

4.  Our hands seem very slippery this year, maybe they all have small hands?

I pretty much agree w/ that.  They don't seem to play hard, (like they did against Kentucky).

The only thing I would add to the criticism is the slow pace.  They absolutely need more transition offense.  Even after made baskets.  I get so pissed when the guy closest to the ball just lets it bounce after a make, and Clemente just stands around waiting on Kent or somebody to throw it in.

But mainly, just run run run.

The funny thing is when we played well early vs OU we pushed the ball no matter what.  But it was mainly with the pass.  We would rebound a make or miss, outlet, and get the ball up the floor to half court without a dribble.  Obviously teams are going to and can take that away.  So one complaint with Frank would be to find other ways to accomplish this task; we are going to be much better off getting the ball into our side of the floor within 5 seconds of the shot clock and looking to attack than getting into a position to start the offense or secondary within 10 seconds.  This team definately can't slow down and try to play out of its offense.

[ksu_FAN]

One more thing...

We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background.  And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc.  But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching".  Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be.  I think for example many don't buy Frank's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played".  Or they played in a different uptempo style.  Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc.  There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.

This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Frank, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Franks sucks as a coach" posts.  And really in any comments you read on a message board.  Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.

[WavetheWheat]

This Team is not being coached well

I said it last night...


Call him

[Chingon]

One more thing...

We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background.  And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc.  But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching".  Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be.  I think for example many don't buy Frank's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played".  Or they played in a different uptempo style.  Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc.  There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.

This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Frank, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Franks sucks as a coach" posts.  And really in any comments you read on a message board.  Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.

 




 j/k

You have put into words what I wish I could coherently get across.

[steve dave]

This Team is not being coached well

I said it last night...


Call him

Didn't he get beat by WSU last night    DO NOT WANT

[michigancat]

One more thing...

We have to remember the perception of "well coached" is going to vary a bunch depending on your background.  And most of that will come from your experience with coaches (if you even played), and otherwise you are probably just pulling stuff you heard from Vitale, etc.  But the style you played, the things they emphasized, and whether or not they were even a good coach themselves will dictate what you think is "good coaching".  Granted, there are certain fundamentals that will be pretty standard, but the scheme, style, and philosophy issues won't be.  I think for example many don't buy Frank's uptempo style b/c most folks didn't play that way "when they played".  Or they played in a different uptempo style.  Or how a coach attacks pressure or inbounds plays, etc.  There are many, many successful ways to do this and most of the successful folks (as coaches) did it with better players than their opponents.

This isn't meant to be a grand defense of Frank, there are probably things he could do better, but I think its important to remember as we read (and will read more of) these "Franks sucks as a coach" posts.  And really in any comments you read on a message board.  Just b/c you played or were taught a certain way doesn't make it the "right way" to play or coach.

I think it's much simpler than that.  Teams w/ good players, or teams w/ bad players that run a "princeton" offense, are "well coached" in the eyes of the (dumb) fans.

[cireksu]

did gpc shut down or something?

[Oklahoma_Cat]

For the sake of the message board, could all gripes be put into one giant thread, that way we can just ignore 1 thread instead of 10?

tia

[ksu_FAN]

did gpc shut down or something?

Much worse there.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

It is plainly clear to me that Frank is not a great coach, and I think everyone who is not a Franktard can admit this.  Frank is not well-rounded enough to have his team look good regardless of the circumstances.  (Example: our conference record is going to be brutal this year.)  Would be nice to have another great coach someday -- the kind that can lead us to the Final Four.  Oh well.

[Legore]

As bad as the offense is I think the biggest problem is on D.  Over and over high major teams shoot 50 plus percent on us.  We're over aggressive and extend our defense way to far on the floor which spreads us out.   IT's either a lay up in the lane or a wide open 3 and it's been happening all year going back to the Kentucky game.  I mean Kentucky shot like 70% against us or something stupid like that.  Every team we've played at some point has started dialing stuff up to take advantage of our blind aggression.  Oregon is awful I mean flat awful and they started back dooring us like crazy in the second half.

Frank always talks about the way he wants to guard and how it's takes longer to learn but at some point it just gets stupid.  Either his players are not good enough for system, he's not coaching the system well enough, or the system just plain doens't work.  My guess is it's a combination of all three things; his system requires really good players we don't have, he does a poor job of coaching and teaching it, and it's not the best system to defend teams that have big 12 level talent.  

[michigancat]

It is plainly clear to me that Frank is not a great coach, and I think everyone who is not a Franktard can admit this. 

I'd agree, but I've said before, there's maybe five high major coaches like that in the country.  Everyone else wins/loses strictly based on talent.