KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: fatty fat fat on August 26, 2007, 10:07:25 PM
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that you would like to see join this years squad.
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Tony Kitt. An experienced *garbage man* would be a nice add. Can't say I would have a second person to add.
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Elliot Hatcher
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Cartier, Lance.
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Galen Morisson (not kidding)
Tony Kitt
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"Galen Morisson (not kidding)"
Interesting. What do you see Galen adding to the team?
I'll admit this is a tough question to fully answer now because it's really unknown how the current mix of players will, well, mix and see what the deficiencies are. I had thought of my 2nd being Josh Reid or Aaron Schwartzendruber. If you pick Aaron though, you might as well go with Larry Reid.
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Related: Who was the best shooter of that era? Best PG?
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Larry Reid would definitely have to be one of them...
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Massey & Cartier.
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cartier and dejesus
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Larry Reid and Hatcher
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Massey
Hatcher
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"Galen Morisson (not kidding)"
Interesting. What do you see Galen adding to the team?
I'll admit this is a tough question to fully answer now because it's really unknown how the current mix of players will, well, mix and see what the deficiencies are. I had thought of my 2nd being Josh Reid or Aaron Schwartzendruber. If you pick Aaron though, you might as well go with Larry Reid.
I picked Galen because he shot about 44% from 3 and made about 3 a game, and 3 point shooting is my biggest worry for this season. No one really came close to that but DeJesus. Gilson shot about the same percentage, but we it seems like we have 8 or 9 small forwards on the roster.
Tony Kitt could defend about any big man on the league (except maybe Arthur, but he's a bad matchup for anyone), in addition to what you already said about him.
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that you would like to see join this years squad.
Larry Reid and Massey
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that you would like to see join this years squad.
Larry Reid and Massey
exactly who I was thinking
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Two Masseys
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paco may..and thats it.
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Tony Kitt and Hatcher for his triples and defense.
After that it would be Pasco and Peete. Those two with good coaching could have been very good.
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Massey & Cartier.
:thumbsup:
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Quentin Buchanan and Travis Reynolds. JC represent.
P.S. srsly, Larry Reid and Cartier Martin
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no love for the seabass? :crybaby:
:sleep:
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Massey & Cartier.
:thumbsup:
I change my vote from two Massey's to this as well. Paco May comes in third folowed by Kitt.
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no love for the seabass? :crybaby:
:sleep:
he came to mind....but not so much.
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Sidike Sidibe sp
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Anton Hubert and Richie Terry. 3 point specialist and defensive stopper.
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Richie Terry
:lol: :lol:
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reid and martin. good thoughts on kitt, but they need shooters more. reid over hatcher is a tough call, but i think reid would fit the team a little better.
morrison is ridiculous, he is one player where the stats are irrelevant. cancer, pussy, better off without him, etc.
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:love: :love: Cartier (so he could go to the NCAA's, and cause he was a really good player)
Massey ( He played his heart every game, and he was goofy)
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Joe Leonard and Matt Siebrandt.
:eyeseeyou:
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Pervis Pasco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!111!!11
(http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/ncb/2003/0313/photo/pasco_i.jpg)
:blank:
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Serge and Paco. Just because they were both good guys.
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MANNY DIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
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MANNY DIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
MCMW
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MANNY DIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
MCMW
Pervis pasco and he can only play against Colorado.
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I'd say Lance Harris as a sophomore.
No other years, just sophomore.
The other would either be Cartier or Massey.
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I'd say Lance Harris as a sophomore.
No other years, just sophomore.
The other would either be Cartier or Massey.
I just want Lance and Cartier's outside ability. It would allow our forwards more room.
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reid and martin. good thoughts on kitt, but they need shooters more. reid over hatcher is a tough call, but i think reid would fit the team a little better.
morrison is ridiculous, he is one player where the stats are irrelevant. cancer, pussy, better off without him, etc.
Kitt pulled down over 9 boards a game, shot 50% from the floor, 70% from the line and played above average defense on opposing centers.
That would put hour top dogs in great position.
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(http://delivery.viewimages.com/xv/57038341.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19396908EAF14430D358E9175FBE2F4F3B5ED02D5B55D3033D3)
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Massey and Tim Ellis
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kind of surprising really, but thinking it over, pick any 2 past points you want, and they wouldn't be a huge upgrade over stewart and young. ksu's weakness at the point is a little overdone.
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Mine: Reid/Martin
We'd prolly win the NC with those two.
Ellis would be my 3rd.
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Hatcher and Reid would be massive upgrades at the PG position.
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Hatcher and Reid would be massive upgrades at the PG position.
why? stewart is a better spot up shooter than either. young is a better defender than either. and since ksu wants the ball in beasley/hoskins/walker´s hands 90% of the time, pg ball handling is less important.
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Hatcher and Reid would be massive upgrades at the PG position.
why? stewart is a better spot up shooter than either. young is a better defender than either. and since ksu wants the ball in beasley/hoskins/walker´s hands 90% of the time, pg ball handling is less important.
We're pretty limited because we can only pass and not dribble. Both in half court offense as well as in doing things like trying to break full court presses or run fast breaks. Hatcher would give us the ability to do those types of things like no one since Hatcher. Another great element that Hatcher would bring - which has been sadly lacking for a long time - is give us a guy that can actually shoot off the dribble. We've had "spot up only" shooters coming out of our asses recently. They're nearly worthless if there isn't a point guard who can effectively pass the ball to them. And they're nothing but a joke when they're you're point guard. For, it's impossible to set yourself up with a great pass.
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who is hatcher?
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Elliot Hatcher. 1996 1st team all conference. Led team to last NCAA tournament appearance. Our last good PG. Not a coincidence.
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Another great element that Hatcher would bring - which has been sadly lacking for a long time - is give us a guy that can actually shoot off the dribble.
any contested shot by anyone other than beasley, walker, or hoskins is a bad shot. hence, hatcher's skillset is largely unnecessary.
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i moved to mhk in time for the 96-97 season. I got to witness Mark Young for one season! :love: :love:
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Another great element that Hatcher would bring - which has been sadly lacking for a long time - is give us a guy that can actually shoot off the dribble.
any contested shot by anyone other than beasley, walker, or hoskins is a bad shot. hence, hatcher's skillset is largely unnecessary.
I love Hoskins. Hatcher was better.
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I love Hoskins. Hatcher was better.
he was great for that team. other than davis, who else could score? for a team with 2 potential lottery picks, and a returning proven scorer, he shoots too much.
not saying he wouldn't be a nice addition, just that the upgrade is not as significant as it might seem at first glance.
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I love Hoskins. Hatcher was better.
he was great for that team. other than davis, who else could score? for a team with 2 potential lottery picks, and a returning proven scorer, he shoots too much.
not saying he wouldn't be a nice addition, just that the upgrade is not as significant as it might seem at first glance.
I have spoken with Billy Donovan extensively on this matter and he assures me that having too many good players is not a cause for concern. Not everyone is going to be on every night. And adding Hatcher would be adding a guy that could go off for 25 to 30 and brings skills very different from those of the existing players (unlike someone like Cartier).
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I love Hoskins. Hatcher was better.
he was great for that team. other than davis, who else could score? for a team with 2 potential lottery picks, and a returning proven scorer, he shoots too much.
not saying he wouldn't be a nice addition, just that the upgrade is not as significant as it might seem at first glance.
I have spoken with Billy Donovan extensively on this matter and he assures me that having too many good players is not a cause for concern. Not everyone is going to be on every night. And adding Hatcher would be adding a guy that could go off for 25 to 30 and brings skills very different from those of the existing players (unlike someone like Cartier).
Galen was the same way. What a guy.
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Two playas....
T Kitt - Can board and defend and would have no problem collecting putbacks while letting our stars create. :billypopcorn: Plus smoked mad kaya and schooled fools at the rec.
E Hatcher - I'm in agreement on the "get as many good players as possible" philosophy. Could fill it up and once de-pantsed Coach Mark Fox at probably the worst D1 camp I could have attended (Tom Asbury BBall Camp).
As an aside - L Reid and E Hatch were both much better than C Stewart and B Young.
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How about Duane Davis, without the baggage? He was actually a pretty solid PG.
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How about Duane Davis, without the baggage? He was actually a pretty solid PG.
qft. remember when ku hurt him before the 97-98 game in bram? we were pretty much screwed the minute that happened. I always thought the 97-98 team was better than 98-99 because of DD.
^^holy sh1t I am a KSU basketball GOD^^^^
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How about Duane Davis, without the baggage? He was actually a pretty solid PG.
qft. remember when ku hurt him before the 97-98 game in bram? we were pretty much screwed the minute that happened. I always thought the 97-98 team was better than 98-99 because of DD.
^^holy sh1t I am a KSU basketball GOD^^^^
After that Chris Griffin was the PG. He simply wasn't a Big 12 PG, decent back-up probably, but not a #1.
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You're right, Chris was a PAC 10 PG. ;)
I'd take Jeff Wires anyday over Chris Griffin.
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Hatcher and Reid would be massive upgrades at the PG position.
why? stewart is a better spot up shooter than either. young is a better defender than either. and since ksu wants the ball in beasley/hoskins/walker´s hands 90% of the time, pg ball handling is less important.
You can't be serious. Hatcher shot 39% on triples over his career, and had over 100 3 pt attempts each year. The only year Stewart shot that good was when he only attempted 37. Hatcher triples Stewarts steal totals and was also a significantly better rebounder.
Stewart averaged less than 3 assists a game last year, and had guys like Hoskins and Martin to dish to. Hatcher averaged over 3 assists a game with half the talent around him.
Oh yeah, and Hatcher almost triples Stewarts career scoring average. Let's be honest, no team is going to divert attention from Beasley/Walker to a guy that is averaging less than 5.5 ppg on his career.
As for pressuring a defense, consider this nugget. Hatcher had more FT attempts his Senior year than Stewart has had in his entire career.
I fail to think of a single way that Stewart could be considered superior to Hatcher. Hatcher literally didn't have knees and he could still dunk all over Stewart.
I'm going to assume you never saw Elliot Hatcher play, and that's why you could say these things.
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he was great for that team. other than davis, who else could score? for a team with 2 potential lottery picks, and a returning proven scorer, he shoots too much.
not saying he wouldn't be a nice addition, just that the upgrade is not as significant as it might seem at first glance.
quoting my previous post to avoid redundancy in responding to all the people who point out that hatcher was better than stewart or young.
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he was great for that team. other than davis, who else could score? for a team with 2 potential lottery picks, and a returning proven scorer, he shoots too much.
not saying he wouldn't be a nice addition, just that the upgrade is not as significant as it might seem at first glance.
quoting my previous post to avoid redundancy in responding to all the people who point out that hatcher was better than stewart or young.
Did he shoot too much because no one else was on the team, or because he was a ball hog? I'm guessing he'd shoot less if he'd play w/ two lottos.
You could argue that Larry Reid shot too much, too, but he was pretty much the only offensive threat.
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He was hitting 39% from downtown, he wasn't shooting too much. He was dishing over 100 assists a season, he wasn't a ball hog.
Stewart doesn't score and doesn't dish. How does that make him better than a guy that is very good at both?
In what aspect of the game was Stewart better than Hatcher?
Just name one.
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Did he shoot too much because no one else was on the team, or because he was a ball hog? I'm guessing he'd shoot less if he'd play w/ two lottos.
You could argue that Larry Reid shot too much, too, but he was pretty much the only offensive threat.
i'm not sayin he was a ball hog. i'm sure he would shoot less.
my point is just that the upgrade he would provide would not be that significant because the shots hatcher would take would come at expense of beasley/walker/hoskins opportunities, not stewart opportunities.
does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?
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He was hitting 39% from downtown, he wasn't shooting too much. He was dishing over 100 assists a season, he wasn't a ball hog.
Stewart doesn't score and doesn't dish. How does that make him better than a guy that is very good at both?
In what aspect of the game was Stewart better than Hatcher?
Just name one.
see my response to rusty. stewart can hit an open, feet planted, 3 as well or better than hatcher could. ksu doesn't need a point to do much more than that. hence hatcher's more expansive skillset would not help the team as much as it would seem.
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does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?
...........
see my response to rusty. stewart can hit an open, feet planted, 3 as well or better than hatcher could. ksu doesn't need a point to do much more than that. hence hatcher's more expansive skillset would not help the team as much as it would seem.
Hatcher was a better 3 pt shooter. Period. Shot better percentages on more attempts.
And a better assist guy.
Not to mention a better defender and rebounder.
Still waiting to hear how that's not an upgrade.
Somehow you have convinced yourself that being a worse shot and less adept at setting up teammates is a good thing. Are you dating Kat Kid? This would explain much.
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Still waiting to hear how that's not an upgrade.
jesus fjucking christ dude. i want to like you, cause you evidently have followed ksu bball for more than a decade. but learn to fjucking read the posts you attack. i've now stated in 3-4 posts that hatcher is better than stewart or young (this means i acknowledge that he would be an upgrade, btw). my point is only that the upgrade is less than might seem immediately obvious.
if you want to attack that point, go ahead. or just decide i'm full of shlt and stop responding. either is fine. just don't keep negating a point i'm not stating.
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if you want to attack that point, go ahead. or just decide i'm full of shlt and stop responding. either is fine. just don't keep negating a point i'm not stating.
Setting up strawmen is about all KSU4ME knows how to do when faced with intelligence, reason, wit, and overall good looks.
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Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.
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Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.
actually, i didn't say that. but at least you are getting closer to what i actually did say.
where are you getting your hatcher stats? link them and i'll take a look and see if i'm talking out of my ass.
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Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.
actually, i didn't say that. but at least you are getting closer to what i actually did say.
where are you getting your hatcher stats? link them and i'll take a look and see if i'm talking out of my ass.
Hatcher: 89-231, .385
http://admin.xosn.com//pdf4/51017.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=400
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thanks. hatcher's 3 stats are only marginally better. his main advantage is that he would combine the good points of both young and stewart in the same player. which is nice, but i still think i'm right that he wouldn't actually improve the team that much.
looking over the stats again, i'd rather have peete than any of the guards previously mentioned. i've now come full circle on him. wooldridge was an idiot not to have let him call himself the point.
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looking over the stats again, i'd rather have peete than any of the guards previously mentioned. i've now come full circle on him. wooldridge was an idiot not to have let him call himself the point.
QFT
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Stats-
http://admin.xosn.com/pdf4/73045.pdf?SPSID=3083&SPID=213&KEY=RELAIMJADQZXOYN.20070417151528&DB_ACCOUNT_TYPE=AGENT&skip_agent_menus=NO&DB_MENU_ID=286&skip_agent_info=NO&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=400
I'd take Elliot over Stew but that has more to do with Stew banging KatKid's girlfriend repeatedly than it does with overall gameplay of either guard. What a great little nugget of find.
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looking over the stats again, i'd rather have peete than any of the guards previously mentioned. i've now come full circle on him. wooldridge was an idiot not to have let him call himself the point.
You're right about Wooldridge being an idiot, but why would you take Peete over Hatcher, Morrison, or Reid?
Another good name no one mentioned is Nick Williams.
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Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.
actually, i didn't say that. but at least you are getting closer to what i actually did say.
stewart can hit an open, feet planted, 3 as well or better than hatcher could
We're not going to upgrade the 3 or 4 spot, and likely not the 2 spot if that's where Sutton plays. And Hatcher is better than any PG we have in every category.
When Stewart took a significant number of 3s, enough to keep a defense honest, he shot worse than Hatcher did. He shot 36% on 107 attempts last year, and 32% on 72 attempts 2 years ago, combining to shoot 35% in the seasons where he actually took the shots. Hatcher shot better, and he was a point of focus for the opposing defense. Stewart rarely attempted a three that wasn't wide freaking open, and he still didn't shoot as good.
No true PG = ultimate straw man
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You're right about Wooldridge being an idiot, but why would you take Peete over Hatcher, Morrison, or Reid?
Another good name no one mentioned is Nick Williams.
over hatcher - bigger, stronger, more athletic. can defend small guards as well, and can defend bigger guards better. better rebounder. just as good an outside shot. peete's weakness was shot selection, but coaching should be able to improve that.
over morrison - bigger, stronger, much, much, much better defender. also i hated morrison.
over reid - pretty much the same rationale as with hatcher, but hatcher was a better defender than reid.
williams was a poor defender at ksu, and didn't have the outside shot. he doesn't really fit a need for the 07-08 team.
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Nick's shot came around at the end of the season (finished at 38%). Coach "Fool's Gold" probably made him make 10 in a row in practice or something before he'd let him take one in a game.
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Peete's greatest strength was getting into the lane and drawing fouls. The guy could create, something that was very rare in the dark ages. Hatcher did that as well, but Hatcher was a better shooter - inside, outside and at the line.
Will we ever see something like this (http://www.nba.com/jazz/Revue/hawks_05.html) for Stewart?
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Peete's greatest strength was getting into the lane and drawing fouls. The guy could create, something that was very rare in the dark ages.
peete's greatest weakness was getting into the lane and not getting a call. the times he got the call didn't make up for the times he didn't. if he had played for a coach that believed in the 3 point shot, and could have been convinced to take a few more 3s, and a lot less 2s, he could have been really good.
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126 3 pt attempts isn't holding back, but Peete also struggled with shot selection. Part of that was his youth, but Harris and Martin were better distance shooters that year, so I don't know if more triples was the answer for Peete.
I loved the guy, and he'd be my second Guard choice after Hatcher.
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126 3 pt attempts isn't holding back, but Peete also struggled with shot selection. Part of that was his youth, but Harris and Martin were better distance shooters that year, so I don't know if more triples was the answer for Peete.
I loved the guy, and he'd be my second Guard choice after Hatcher.
i agree, he shot too much (100 more attempts than martin, almost as many as massey), and looking back, yeah probably a few too many 3s too. but 35% on 3s is better than 39% on 2s, even factoring in fts.
great defender though. and versatile.
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does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?
Yes. He will find some way to &@#% things up. Exactly how he does this isn't important. And it's not like he's any &@#%ing good at setting up scorers in the first place.
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does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?
Yes. He will find some way to frack things up. Exactly how he does this isn't important. And it's not like he's any fracking good at setting up scorers in the first place.
If we need somone to dribble down the court (like he's trying to sneak up on someone) and then not penetrate (because he's physically unable to dribble competently into the lane) and try to pass the ball to the wing (where it almost gets picked off) to one of the lottery picks...then Clent's our guy. Although he his good for a spot up 3.
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Since all the proper answers are taken, I'll go:
Kimm and Wallace.
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does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?
Yes. He will find some way to frack things up. Exactly how he does this isn't important. And it's not like he's any fracking good at setting up scorers in the first place.
If we need somone to dribble down the court (like he's trying to sneak up on someone) and then not penetrate (because he's physically unable to dribble competently into the lane) and try to pass the ball to the wing (where it almost gets picked off) to one of the lottery picks...then Clent's our guy. Although he his good for a spot up 3.
Be fair to Clent. He is an excellent passer, so long as his target is unguarded and standing outside the 3 pt line.
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does position even matter?
isn't it usually "best avalible"?
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Matt Seibrant has not gotten enough love in this thread....
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isn't it usually "best avalible"?
Yeah, usually. A team usually has adequate guards, though.
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I'd have to go with Reid and Kitt/Massey.