KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: The Manhatter on August 01, 2007, 02:18:46 PM
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facts.
Pass Attempts in starts
Meier 184
Freeman 223
Interceptions in starts
Meier 10
Freeman 11
Attempts per int
Meier 18.4
Freeman 20.3
bowl teams faced in starts
Meier 3
Freeman 5
Oops...
(http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/kan/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/1254559.jpeg)
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
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Facts are irrelevent in discussion with ku. Similarly Husker fans like to bury their head in the sand and ignore facts. It's best to just make things up and include moral and almost victories.
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
Your dumb level needs to be checked.
Oh, wait. We don't have dumb scales that measure that high.
:loly:
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
Your dumb level needs to be checked.
Oh, wait. We don't have dumb scales that measure that high.
:loly:
Just because you were too young to remember the days when K-State fans wouldn't even consider comparing the two school's starting Quarterbacks doesn't make the exercise seem any less foolish.
:ksu:
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
LOL..very true. But it's still fun to post the facts.
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
I concur. I'd like to think that when compared to an weak armed, injury prone piece of crap, Josh has better numbers.
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
LOL..very true. But it's still fun to post the facts.
Love your posts Hatter, just prefer the ones when you focus your attn to the Nubs. This ku stuff is way below you.
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One of my favorite Hatter posts was the "ku Scoring Options are Being Eliminated As We Speak" one.
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Total TD's:
Meier - 18
Freeman - 8
Freemans only had 6 passing TD's in 270 attempts. Meier had 13 TD's in 184 attempts. Just the facts.
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Touchdowns are overrated.
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Total TD's:
Meier - 18
Freeman - 8
Freemans only had 6 passing TD's in 270 attempts. Meier had 13 TD's in 184 attempts. Just the facts.
Too lazy to look it up...what do the win totals look like?
TIA
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One of my favorite Hatter posts was the "ku Scoring Options are Being Eliminated As We Speak" one.
Comparing our program/players to theirs is bad. Making fun of them is good. :peek:
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facts.
Pass Attempts in starts
Meier 184
Freeman 223
Interceptions in starts
Meier 10
Freeman 11
Attempts per int
Meier 18.4
Freeman 20.3
bowl teams faced in starts
Meier 3
Freeman 5
Oops...
(http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/kan/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/1254559.jpeg)
I'm curious as to what it would look like if you eliminated the "in starts" part to it. It just seems a bit selective..
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Just because you were too young to remember the days when K-State fans wouldn't even consider comparing the two school's starting Quarterbacks doesn't make the exercise seem any less foolish.
I'm "old" enough to remember when these comparisons were made:
Dylen Smith, the next Michael Bishop (http://www.rockchalk.com/recruiting/mfb/99kurcrt.htm)
MO-KAN is reporting that Dylen (pronounced "Die len") Smith is still being recruited by ku. In the Cali JUCO championship bowl game Dylen passed for 400 yards on 38 completions for 51 attempts. Descriptions would make one think of Michael Bishop in athleticism and style.
:rolleyes:
Verballed Kansas Over: James Madison
:lol:
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Total TD's:
Meier - 18
Freeman - 8
Freemans only had 6 passing TD's in 270 attempts. Meier had 13 TD's in 184 attempts. Just the facts.
Too lazy to look it up...what do the win totals look like?
TIA
If you count moral victories, I think Meier is undefeated as a starter.
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According to a certain ku fan, the victory over UT by Freeman is really a moral defeat.
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Total TD's:
Meier - 18
Freeman - 8
Freemans only had 6 passing TD's in 270 attempts. Meier had 13 TD's in 184 attempts. Just the facts.
Too lazy to look it up...what do the win totals look like?
TIA
Well Freeman won 4 big 12 games and no ku team has done that since the conference was formed. So his crappy true freshman season they are always chirping about produced better results then anything any ku QB has ever done in big 12 play.
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Total TD's:
Meier - 18
Freeman - 8
Freemans only had 6 passing TD's in 270 attempts. Meier had 13 TD's in 184 attempts. Just the facts.
Too lazy to look it up...what do the win totals look like?
TIA
Well Freeman won 4 big 12 games and no ku team has done that since the conference was formed. So his crappy true freshman season they are always chirping about produced better results then anything any ku QB has ever done in big 12 play.
:thumbsup:
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Total TD's:
Meier - 18
Freeman - 8
Freemans only had 6 passing TD's in 270 attempts. Meier had 13 TD's in 184 attempts. Just the facts.
Too lazy to look it up...what do the win totals look like?
TIA
KSU did win a few despite Freeman's performance. Gotta love special teams.
Meier had more than double Freeman's TD's and 2/3 the int's. And you really can't blame Meier for ku's terrible secondary last year snatching defeat from the jaws of victory numerous times.
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According to a certain ku fan, the victory over UT by Freeman is really a moral defeat.
Yet another reason why ku fans should not reproduce. This sorta of logic represents what the movie Idiocracy predicted.
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Just because you were too young to remember the days when K-State fans wouldn't even consider comparing the two school's starting Quarterbacks doesn't make the exercise seem any less foolish.
I'm "old" enough to remember when these comparisons were made:
Dylen Smith, the next Michael Bishop (http://www.rockchalk.com/recruiting/mfb/99kurcrt.htm)
MO-KAN is reporting that Dylen (pronounced "Die len") Smith is still being recruited by ku. In the Cali JUCO championship bowl game Dylen passed for 400 yards on 38 completions for 51 attempts. Descriptions would make one think of Michael Bishop in athleticism and style.
:rolleyes:
Verballed Kansas Over: James Madison
:lol:
I said that we shouldn't be comparing our program/players to theirs. I won't dispute the fact that you are old balls though. 'Grats!
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:jerkoff:
Was it too difficult to see how my example proved your point?
Good grief you're slow.
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Hatter, post the entire list from your Phog post. It does a pretty good job showing that Meier and Freeman are pretty comperable. I will always think very highly of Freeman for giving us the ball 6 times in our game last year. Quite the humanitarian.
Overall, The Manslaughter has done a pretty good job of showing that Meier and Freeman aren't much different.
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:jerkoff:
Was it too difficult to see how my example proved your point?
Good grief you're slow.
I'm slow enough to read your post that says-
I'm "old" enough to remember when these comparisons were made:
Dylen Smith, the next Michael Bishop (http://www.rockchalk.com/recruiting/mfb/99kurcrt.htm)
One more time for the kid missing a chromosome...This thread isn't about ku fans comparing their players/program to ours. No one here said it was right or wrong. We do it all the time in basketball, it's natural. (http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?board=3.0) The issue is when we start feeling insecure enough to start comparing ourselves to them. Try to keep up junior.
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Man, I'm really understanding your reliance on mass liquor to meet women. But I do now realize that your living with momma isn't necessarily your choice, it's a reality forced upon you by your own limitations.
Is it so hard to understand how the absurd comparison of Dylen to Bishop by a ku fan illustrates the sad fact that a KSU fan is now comparing our QB to ku's QB?
It kind of illustrates how far KSU has slipped.
I'll break it down even further. No KSU fan would have ever thought of comparing our QBs to ku's from '94 - 2003. KSU fans laughed when others made the comparisons. This thread is about a KSU fan comparing KSU's QB to ku's.
Get it yet?
If not, your mind has gone as limp as your johnson.
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Overall, The Manslaughter has done a pretty good job of showing that Meier and Freeman aren't much different.
Except for that whole Win/Loss thing. But winning games has never been important for ku football, just the closeness of the losses, so why should it start now.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
What was their conference record as starters? TIA and LOL at your OOC.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).
Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?
Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Wasn't Toledo one of the top teams in the "MAC"?
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Man, I'm really understanding your reliance on mass liquor to meet women. But I do now realize that your living with momma isn't necessarily your choice, it's a reality forced upon you by your own limitations.
Is it so hard to understand how the absurd comparison of Dylen to Bishop by a ku fan illustrates the sad fact that a KSU fan is now comparing our QB to ku's QB?
It kind of illustrates how far KSU has slipped.
I'll break it down even further. No KSU fan would have ever thought of comparing our QBs to ku's from '94 - 2003. KSU fans laughed when others made the comparisons. This thread is about a KSU fan comparing KSU's QB to ku's.
Get it yet?
If not, your mind has gone as limp as your johnson.
You really suck at this. Now you're just flailing around as bad as the dying fish found between your wife's legs. I'm sure you really believe you have a point, you're that dumb, it's ok.
KSU4ME :flush:
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Wasn't Toledo one of the top teams in the "MAC"?
Toledo finished a Maginoesque 3-5 in MAC play last season.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Wasn't Toledo one of the top teams in the "MAC"?
Toledo finished a Maginoesque 3-5 in MAC play last season.
I'm sure all of their losses came away from the dreaded "Glass Bowl".
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).
Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?
Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.
Well if all else fails lets check head to head. Hows that working out for you?
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).
Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?
Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.
Well if all else fails lets check head to head. Hows that working out for you?
OMG, OMG, one game! ku could beat K-State 1000 times and I wouldn't care as long as we had more wins.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.
Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).
Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?
Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.
Well if all else fails lets check head to head. Hows that working out for you?
So OSU > NU? I mean, head to head OSU beat NU so OSU's the better team, right?
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I can sense the post coming . . . . . . . .
. . . . . .Someone is going to try and say that ku and K-State are on anything other than comperable footing. :rolleyes:
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
What was their conference record as starters? TIA and LOL at your OOC.
So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses? That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman. Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary? But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.
This thread was started to compare the two QB's.
Both were 4-4 as starters. Meier is 1-0 head to head. Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps. Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.
Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not. But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman. Does Freeman have more upside? Sure. But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
LOL..very true. But it's still fun to post the facts.
Love your posts Hatter, just prefer the ones when you focus your attn to the Nubs. This ku stuff is way below you.
does my bitterness over 39-20 show? Do I have something in my teeth?
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Call me back when KM puts the team on his back and carries them to victory, even if it's a I-AA program. I'll count it! ;) Also, CC > KM
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Hatter, post the entire list from your Phog post. It does a pretty good job showing that Meier and Freeman are pretty comperable. I will always think very highly of Freeman for giving us the ball 6 times in our game last year. Quite the humanitarian.
Overall, The Manslaughter has done a pretty good job of showing that Meier and Freeman aren't much different.
hmmm..comparable.
Of course Meier started against the same schedule (cough NW St, La Mon, Toledo, Baylor, ISU) and had experienced players all around him not only in playing expeirence but experience in a program that had not changed in the previous year....not to mention a consistent running game.
But yeah...comparable. :lol:
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jayhoxx axed me to post it so here it is in it's entirety for those who cannot "enter the phog" :ku:
this thread is amusing concerning the QB position. It's not even close in terms
of talent.
But let's look at the numbers more closely...
STARTS only. I really don't care what Freeman did as a true freshman coming in
as a relief pitcher early in the season.
Freeman went 4-4 as a starter( 4-3 in Big 12 play).
Meier went 4-4 as a starter (2-3 in Big 12 play).
Freeman had a much tougher schedule as a starter.
Freeman starts
opponent comp-att-yards-int-td
W - OSU 10-15-177-0-0
L - Nubb 23-47-272-2-0
L - Mizz 5-19-63-2-0
W - ISU 14-20-161-1-1 :lol:
W - Colo 22-26-251-0-2 :lol:
W - Tex 19-31-269-1-3
L - Kan 23-44-244-3-0 :lol:
L - Rut 10-21-129-2-0
4-4 (4-3) 126-223-1,566-11-6
Meier starts
opponent comp-att-yards-int-td
W - NW St 8-18-110-1-2 :lol:
W - La Mon 16-27-185-2-2 :lol:
L - Toledo 23-41-243-4-2 :lol:
L - OSU 15-27-187-1-3
L - Baylor 6-11-62-0-1 :lol:
W - ISU 17-22-199-0-2 :lol:
W - KSU 11-23-108-2-0
L - Mizz 8-15-99-0-1
4-4 (2-3) 104-184-1,193-10-13
:lol: = LOL opponents
summary
games started: Meier 8 Freeman 8
record as starter: Meier 4-4 Freeman 4-4
record in Big 12: Meier 2-3 Freeman 4-3
Bowl Opponents starts: Meier 3 Freeman 5
Top 15 opponents starts: Meier 0 Freeman 2
Completion % in starts: Meier 56.5 Freeman 56.5
Yards per game in starts: Meier 149.1 Freeman 195.8
Yards per attempt: Meier 6.5 Freeman 7.0
Yards per completion: Meier 11.5 Freeman 12.4
interceptions in starts: Meier 10 Freeman 11 (wow, big diff. w/ lighter sched)
TD's passing in starts: Meier 13 Freeman 6 (thank you soft sched!!)
attempts per int's: Meier 18.4 Freeman 20.3
consistent running game to help passing game: Meier - yes Freeman - No
Healthy receivers: Meier - yes Freeman - No
Experienced OL: Meier - yes Freeman - No
Year in program: Meier - yes Freeman - No
1st year head coach and offense - Meier - No Freeman - yes
Bowl - Meier - No Freeman - Yes
Bottom line is that Meier had a solid running game and an offense surrounding
him where there were experienced players both as starters and in an offensive
system under a head coach who had been there for 5 years. Freeman had an
inconsistent running game and an offense surrounding him where there were
INexperienced players in the new offense under a first year head coach. And he
had a receiving corps that was banged up throughout the year.
Meier did throw more TD passes by virtue of a weaker schedule. Congrats to
Kerry.
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They were both 4-4 as starters.
What was their conference record as starters? TIA and LOL at your OOC.
So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses? That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman. Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary? But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.
This thread was started to compare the two QB's.
Both were 4-4 as starters. Meier is 1-0 head to head. Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps. Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.
Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not. But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman. Does Freeman have more upside? Sure. But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.
Yes, if you don't count the conference win/loss record (which by ku football standards you shouldn't) they had a very comparable year (also not counting KM being a RS freshman and JF being a true freshman).
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KSU4ME :flush:
^^^ All PC has ^^^
I'll ensure any post I think you might read is broken down to a third grade level.
Obee-kaybee?
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So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses? That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman. Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary? But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.
This thread was started to compare the two QB's.
Both were 4-4 as starters. Meier is 1-0 head to head. Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps. Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.
Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not. But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman. Does Freeman have more upside? Sure. But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.
f'ng priceless.
10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against...ready for this? NW St, La Monroe, and Toledo.
Do I need to repeat that? Okay, I will...10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against NW St., La Monroe, and Toledo.
Wait..if you call now I'll throw in 4 more TD's vs. Baylor and Iowa State for absolutely free! That's right...Meier scored 14 of his 18 TD's vs. NW St, La Monroe, Toledo, Baylor, and ISU!!
Seriously...does anybody truly need any more information? If you think Meier had a better year when he faced doorknob teams and had a better supporting cast in terms of experience, consistent running game, etc. then you are walking around w/ a hole in your head or something.
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facts
(http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/kan/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/1254559.jpeg)
What's going on with his mustache?
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So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses? That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman. Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary? But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.
This thread was started to compare the two QB's.
Both were 4-4 as starters. Meier is 1-0 head to head. Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps. Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.
Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not. But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman. Does Freeman have more upside? Sure. But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.
f'ng priceless.
10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against...ready for this? NW St, La Monroe, and Toledo.
Do I need to repeat that? Okay, I will...10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against NW St., La Monroe, and Toledo.
Wait..if you call now I'll throw in 4 more TD's vs. Baylor and Iowa State for absolutely free! That's right...Meier scored 14 of his 18 TD's vs. NW St, La Monroe, Toledo, Baylor, and ISU!!
Seriously...does anybody truly need any more information? If you think Meier had a better year when he faced doorknob teams and had a better supporting cast in terms of experience, consistent running game, etc. then you are walking around w/ a hole in your head or something.
What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year? I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse. You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier. Freeman was bad last year. 6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.
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Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet. In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.
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Meier stats came against garbage competition.
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What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year? I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse. You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier. Freeman was bad last year. 6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.
Meier was a redshirt freshman...not a true freshman.
Meier had an OL.
Meier had a healthy receiving corps.
Meier had a consistent running game.
Meier had experienced players surrounding him.
Meier had players surrounding him who had spent a great deal of time in Mangino's offense.
and other than his TD numbers(which were inflated against the pastsies) his numbers were WORSE!!
Go ahead and throw in Freeman's int's against Louisville or Baylor or whomever when he's an 18 year old unprepared in relief duty if it makes you feel better.
All things fairly equal ask yourself, honestly, if you think the moustache holds a candle to Freeman.
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Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet. In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.
You got me on that one. Good stuff. How many years you been waiting to break that one out?
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I have to admit, looking at the Texas boxscore from today, my jaw dropped when I saw Free's stats.
Unreal.
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Meier won't start next year this thread is moot.
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So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses? That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman. Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary? But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.
This thread was started to compare the two QB's.
Both were 4-4 as starters. Meier is 1-0 head to head. Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps. Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.
Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not. But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman. Does Freeman have more upside? Sure. But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.
f'ng priceless.
10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against...ready for this? NW St, La Monroe, and Toledo.
Do I need to repeat that? Okay, I will...10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against NW St., La Monroe, and Toledo.
Wait..if you call now I'll throw in 4 more TD's vs. Baylor and Iowa State for absolutely free! That's right...Meier scored 14 of his 18 TD's vs. NW St, La Monroe, Toledo, Baylor, and ISU!!
Seriously...does anybody truly need any more information? If you think Meier had a better year when he faced doorknob teams and had a better supporting cast in terms of experience, consistent running game, etc. then you are walking around w/ a hole in your head or something.
What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year? I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse. You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier. Freeman was bad last year. 6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.
Freeman (a true freshman) was good enough to lead KSU to win 4 conference games, something no KSU QB has done since 2003, that's why we think he had a good year, not because when compared to your pussy, weak armed, injury prone redshirt freshman QB he's better.
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Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet. In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.
You got me on that one. Good stuff. How many years you been waiting to break that one out?
Not as long as for the John Randle embarrassment. :flush: I don't have anything more recent because that's about when I stopped reading GoPropagandaCat :flush: althogether. From the looks of things around here these days, I'll have plenty more in the very near future. :flush:
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Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet. In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.
You got me on that one. Good stuff. How many years you been waiting to break that one out?
Not as long as for the John Randle embarrassment. :flush: I don't have anything more recent because that's about when I stopped reading GoPropagandaCat :flush: althogether. From the looks of things around here these days, I'll have plenty more in the very near future. :flush:
Did you have to bring up Randle? :banghead:
I cannot escape chum..my sweaty-toothed madman.
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What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year? I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse. You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier. Freeman was bad last year. 6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.
Meier was a redshirt freshman...not a true freshman.
Meier had an OL.
Meier had a healthy receiving corps.
Meier had a consistent running game.
Meier had experienced players surrounding him.
Meier had players surrounding him who had spent a great deal of time in Mangino's offense.
and other than his TD numbers(which were inflated against the pastsies) his numbers were WORSE!!
Go ahead and throw in Freeman's int's against Louisville or Baylor or whomever when he's an 18 year old unprepared in relief duty if it makes you feel better.
All things fairly equal ask yourself, honestly, if you think the moustache holds a candle to Freeman.
Once again you're trashing Meier while trying to defend Freeman. I've admitted I'm not impressed with Meier, but the fact remains Freeman was worse. He had six passing TD's in 8 starts (plus quite a few appearances in games he didn't start). That's less than one a game. That's bad against any competition. He had 15 int's and lord knows how many fumbles lost. That's bad against any competition. And the 18 year true freshman in a relief role thing that you're pulling out, ku's Reesing didn't do so bad in that role. So why, exactly, is everyone supposed to be in awe of Freeman? Was it his awesome Spring Game performance?
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Once again you're trashing Meier while trying to defend Freeman. I've admitted I'm not impressed with Meier, but the fact remains Freeman was worse. He had six passing TD's in 8 starts (plus quite a few appearances in games he didn't start). That's less than one a game. That's bad against any competition. He had 15 int's and lord knows how many fumbles lost. That's bad against any competition. And the 18 year true freshman in a relief role thing that you're pulling out, ku's Reesing didn't do so bad in that role. So why, exactly, is everyone supposed to be in awe of Freeman? Was it his awesome Spring Game performance?
If you close your eyes and nod three times Freeman will no longer be talented and capable of winning games on his own.
keep telling yourself over and over again that some int's (half of which were tipped by his own receivers) and a lack of TD's (Prince ran it a ton near the redzone) indicate some kid just one year out of high school sucks.
good stuff.
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Once again you're trashing Meier while trying to defend Freeman. I've admitted I'm not impressed with Meier, but the fact remains Freeman was worse. He had six passing TD's in 8 starts (plus quite a few appearances in games he didn't start). That's less than one a game. That's bad against any competition. He had 15 int's and lord knows how many fumbles lost. That's bad against any competition. And the 18 year true freshman in a relief role thing that you're pulling out, ku's Reesing didn't do so bad in that role. So why, exactly, is everyone supposed to be in awe of Freeman? Was it his awesome Spring Game performance?
So Arthur with his 5 stars and his fairly weak 8.6ppg in conference won't be better next year? That's what you're arguing. Arthur didn't really do crap for as much hype as I had to hear from ku fans, yet you expect him to get better, right? Why the hell can't KSU fans expect the same thing from Freeman? Freeman had good games and bad games, and when it was all said and done, led his team to a bowl game and 4 conference wins (both for the first time since 2003). And all of that behind an offensive line that could get overtaken by angry girl scouts.
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So we can debate the stats all night long, but the bottom line is this:
Would you rather have JF or KM under center this year...all other things being equal?
I chose Josh, and deep down, we all know the Hawkers would too.
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So we can debate the stats all night long, but the bottom line is this:
Would you rather have JF or KM under center this year...all other things being equal?
I chose Josh, and deep down, we all know the Hawkers would too.
Q F T
End of thread.
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So we can debate the stats all night long, but the bottom line is this:
Would you rather have JF or KM under center this year...all other things being equal?
I chose Josh, and deep down, we all know the Hawkers would too.
Alright, once again, you bring up Meier. How many times can I say I'm not that impressed with him. I'm just asking you why anyone should be so impressed with Freeman. Once again, potential means you ain't done it yet. His two worst games of the year were the last two games of the year, both blowouts. His spring game performance was terrible. Why this blind optimism about him?
"keep telling yourself over and over again that some int's (half of which were tipped by his own receivers) and a lack of TD's (Prince ran it a ton near the redzone) indicate some kid just one year out of high school sucks."
This one cracks me up Hatter. They were tipped so they shouldn't count? Tell Freeman to throw it to where they can make a clean catch. Once again, 6 TDs in 8 starts. That's bad. Nice you're trying to blame it on Prince.
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He played against tough competition. His bad games are to be expected from an 18 year old true frosh in a team who are all learning a new scheme.
4-3 vs big 12 competition. Amazing when you consider Mangino has never nabbed 4 big 12 wins in one season.
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Lighting up Texas and CU(who had a solid defense) is enough for me.
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Passing touchdowns are overrated. As long as the ball gets in, then I'm good. And we had no shortage of that against ISU, OSU, Texas, Colorado, and even ku and Mizzou.
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Could one of you (Hatter) please post the passing defense national rankings of the teams Freeman started against? Thanks.
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Could one of you (Hatter) please post the passing defense national rankings of the teams Freeman started against? Thanks.
I see where this is headed...some beak thought he was clever on the phog by insinuating LaMonroe, Toledo, and NW St. were more potent pass D's than Tejas due to rankings or something like that. Good stuff.
Thanks hoxx...I enjoyed it.
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Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.
:curse:
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Meier stats came against garbage competition.
that should end this discussion right there...
no need to bring up the fact that KSU was under a new coach
Freeman was a true FR
AND the fact that even with a hot and cold QB we still won more games with a tougher schedule
What is up with all these f'ing ku tools on here?
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Average national rank for pass defenses in conference starts:
KM: 72
JF: 88
Average national rank for total defense in conference starts:
KM: 82
JF: 67
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1) Hatter, you didn't answer the question there either.
2) Hatter's post is related to passing ability. The fact that he can't/won't run has nothing to do with that.
3) The difference in ranking supports the premise that Freeman and Meier really aren't too different.
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Freeman and Meier really aren't too different.
:bs:
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Several NFL scouts called my private line to inform the that they will be taking a hard look at Kerry when he decides to hang up his college cleats.
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Your sarcasm only hurts Josh.
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1) Hatter, you didn't answer the question there either.
2) Hatter's post is related to passing ability. The fact that he can't/won't run has nothing to do with that.
3) The difference in ranking supports the premise that Freeman and Meier really aren't too different.
I can't take you seriously w/ this stuff.
Again...La Monroe, NW St, and Toledo....Texas, Nebraska, and Rutgers...what more needs to be said? Meier started against the first three while Freeman started against the latter.
Freeman can't run? See video of Patton/Freeman...Freeman rolls out just fine. If Meier had KSU's OL pass blocking for him last year he would not have been able to scramble out of most of those situations in the pocket either. Meier ran in the option behind a veteran OL. Good for him. Besides...why is it some big deal about whether our QB can run? It's not like Meier is going to go off running this year after ku lost 100 career starts in the interior OL.
thanks hoxx.
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3) The difference in ranking supports the premise that Freeman and Meier really aren't too different.
Freeman faced better overall defenses. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the defense's ability take away the run greatly affects the offense's ability to pass as the offense become more predictable or rather is forced to be one dimensional; couple that with an offensive line that is terrible/inexperienced and that leaves the QB in a bad situation. It's weird, I know. Learn more about football here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football)
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This is how I like to think about it. Kerry Meier's stats are over inflated in the very same way that Snyder's team stats were.
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This is how I like to think about it. Kerry Meier's stats are over inflated in the very same way that Snyder's team stats were.
QFT. Snyder blew.
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Passing touchdowns are overrated. As long as the ball gets in, then I'm good. And we had no shortage of that against ISU, OSU, Texas, Colorado, and even ku and Mizzou.
I'll just touch on the ku game here. You had twenty total points. 7 from a special teams return. 7 from a long run by Patton that ku players gave up on. 6 from two field goals. Freeman had six total turnovers. His play led directly to more ku points than KSU (int and fumble loss for TDs). Yes, I can see why you'd use that game to support Freeman.
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Hatter continues to refuse to post the actual rankings of those pass defenses. And when you take away the run, you need to rely on a pass defense that is often shorthanded due to run support. So, if the pass defense is already poorly ranked, then you would think Golden Boy could pick them apart. No?
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Hatter continues to refuse to post the actual rankings of those pass defenses. And when you take away the run, you need to rely on a pass defense that is often shorthanded due to run support. So, if the pass defense is already poorly ranked, then you would think Golden Boy could pick them apart. No?
Dude, if pass defense rankings are the gold standard to judging a team, you are pretty much &@#%ed as a ku fan.
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Isn't it a pretty good place to start when comparing interception stats between QB's? Right, right. That would be silly. :ksu:
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Again, if you want to measure an opponents strength by passing defense, I'll happily oblige.
ku #118 in the country.
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And Freeman did what against #118 . . . . . ?
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I do like how you guys are dragging your defense in the mud (calling it the worst in the country) to make freeman look bad.
3 moles of LOL there.
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I'm not dragging anyone anywhere. The D-backfield was already in the mud and cost us 3 games and we didn't get enough pressure from the DE's (except for the K-State game). Talib was a shutdown corner with no support. The d-backs look to be improved for this year (new blood couldn't be worse) and the DE's still worry me.
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Passing touchdowns are overrated. As long as the ball gets in, then I'm good. And we had no shortage of that against ISU, OSU, Texas, Colorado, and even ku and Mizzou.
I'll just touch on the ku game here. You had twenty total points. 7 from a special teams return. 7 from a long run by Patton that ku players gave up on. 6 from two field goals. Freeman had six total turnovers. His play led directly to more ku points than KSU (int and fumble loss for TDs). Yes, I can see why you'd use that game to support Freeman.
You're pretty f*cking retarded. I said that we didn't have problems putting points on the board in those games. We had 20 or more points in each of those games. 30 or more against the first four I mentioned. I didn't say anything about turnovers. All I said was that I didn't care how points were scored whether it be on the ground or through the air. Thanks for exhibiting your stupidity though.
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Geez, you beakers are annoying. Let's try and explain it to you simply. Freeman obviously has tremendous potential. Typically, players improve as they move through the college ranks...particularly between their first and second seasons playing. From reports I have seen, Freeman played very well in the spring practices, but just laid a giant egg in the spring game. KSU fans are excited about Freeman because of his potential and because he showed some tremendous flashes of his abilities in performances against some quality competition. It would appear that with an improved O-Line (can the Cats line get any worse?), and more experience that will help him learn to avoid those bad throws, Freeman should be much better this year. Couple that with a hopefully improved front line and the Cats have some good potential. Now, they have to realize that but surely even a beak can see the Freeman potential.
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And Freeman did what against #118 . . . . . ?
No Moreira, No Yamon, 1/2 Jordy...wonder why?
good stuff.
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Hatter continues to refuse to post the actual rankings of those pass defenses. And when you take away the run, you need to rely on a pass defense that is often shorthanded due to run support. So, if the pass defense is already poorly ranked, then you would think Golden Boy could pick them apart. No?
This football thing seems to confuse you. If a team takes the run away, then the offense becomes one dimensional, therefore leaving the offense with nothing else left but to throw the ball (something that even a bad passing defense can take advantage of - see ku). Freeman played against better overall defenses in conference and won 4 games - and in 3 of those games he was damn near the major part of winning (UT, OSU, CU). KM on the other hand, lead his team to 2 conference wins against far worse defenses.
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Passing touchdowns are overrated. As long as the ball gets in, then I'm good. And we had no shortage of that against ISU, OSU, Texas, Colorado, and even ku and Mizzou.
I'll just touch on the ku game here. You had twenty total points. 7 from a special teams return. 7 from a long run by Patton that ku players gave up on. 6 from two field goals. Freeman had six total turnovers. His play led directly to more ku points than KSU (int and fumble loss for TDs). Yes, I can see why you'd use that game to support Freeman.
You're pretty f*cking retarded. I said that we didn't have problems putting points on the board in those games. We had 20 or more points in each of those games. 30 or more against the first four I mentioned. I didn't say anything about turnovers. All I said was that I didn't care how points were scored whether it be on the ground or through the air. Thanks for exhibiting your stupidity though.
Well, this was a discussion about Freeman. And you were really satisfied with 20 points against ku? It did leave you 19 short. Boy you're easy to please, especially against a horrible pass defense.
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Passing touchdowns are overrated. As long as the ball gets in, then I'm good. And we had no shortage of that against ISU, OSU, Texas, Colorado, and even ku and Mizzou.
I'll just touch on the ku game here. You had twenty total points. 7 from a special teams return. 7 from a long run by Patton that ku players gave up on. 6 from two field goals. Freeman had six total turnovers. His play led directly to more ku points than KSU (int and fumble loss for TDs). Yes, I can see why you'd use that game to support Freeman.
You're pretty f*cking retarded. I said that we didn't have problems putting points on the board in those games. We had 20 or more points in each of those games. 30 or more against the first four I mentioned. I didn't say anything about turnovers. All I said was that I didn't care how points were scored whether it be on the ground or through the air. Thanks for exhibiting your stupidity though.
Well, this was a discussion about Freeman. And you were really satisfied with 20 points against ku? It did leave you 19 short. Boy you're easy to please, especially against a horrible pass defense.
I was satisfied with a true Freshman QB being an integral part of a 4-4 conference record and a bowl appearance...I'm sorry that we don't consider you our superbowl. I'm also sorry that in year 6, you still don't know what it's like to win 4 conference games.
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Passing touchdowns are overrated. As long as the ball gets in, then I'm good. And we had no shortage of that against ISU, OSU, Texas, Colorado, and even ku and Mizzou.
I'll just touch on the ku game here. You had twenty total points. 7 from a special teams return. 7 from a long run by Patton that ku players gave up on. 6 from two field goals. Freeman had six total turnovers. His play led directly to more ku points than KSU (int and fumble loss for TDs). Yes, I can see why you'd use that game to support Freeman.
You're pretty f*cking retarded. I said that we didn't have problems putting points on the board in those games. We had 20 or more points in each of those games. 30 or more against the first four I mentioned. I didn't say anything about turnovers. All I said was that I didn't care how points were scored whether it be on the ground or through the air. Thanks for exhibiting your stupidity though.
Well, this was a discussion about Freeman. And you were really satisfied with 20 points against ku? It did leave you 19 short. Boy you're easy to please, especially against a horrible pass defense.
My statement wasn't regarding Freeman, necessarily. It was regarding the stupidity in your whole "only six td passes in eight games" argument.
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(http://soulgardening.typepad.com/photos/keys_july_2005/gross.jpg)
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Thread successfully terminated. :yuck: