Josh Freeman...int machine...what about Kerry?..

[michigancat]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.

Wasn't Toledo one of the top teams in the "MAC"?

[pissclams]

Man, I'm really understanding your reliance on mass liquor to meet women.  But I do now realize that your living with momma isn't necessarily your choice, it's a reality forced upon you by your own limitations.

Is it so hard to understand how the absurd comparison of Dylen to Bishop by a ku fan illustrates the sad fact that a KSU fan is now comparing our QB to ku's QB?

It kind of illustrates how far KSU has slipped.

I'll break it down even further.  No KSU fan would have ever thought of comparing our QBs to ku's from '94 - 2003.  KSU fans laughed when others made the comparisons.  This thread is about a KSU fan comparing KSU's QB to ku's.

Get it yet? 

If not, your mind has gone as limp as your johnson.

You really suck at this.  Now you're just flailing around as bad as the dying fish found between your wife's legs.  I'm sure you really believe you have a point, you're that dumb, it's ok.

KSU4ME  

[Legore]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.

Wasn't Toledo one of the top teams in the "MAC"?

Toledo finished a Maginoesque 3-5 in MAC play last season.   

[michigancat]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.

Wasn't Toledo one of the top teams in the "MAC"?

Toledo finished a Maginoesque 3-5 in MAC play last season.   

I'm sure all of their losses came away from the dreaded "Glass Bowl".

[Gimmered]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.

Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).

Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?

Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.

Well if all else fails lets check head to head. Hows that working out for you?

[waks]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.

Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).

Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?

Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.

Well if all else fails lets check head to head. Hows that working out for you?

OMG, OMG, one game! ku could beat K-State 1000 times and I wouldn't care as long as we had more wins.

[catzacker]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

And the level of competition was exactly the same, I'm sure.

Josh beat Oklahoma State - bowl team (won said bowl), Iowa State, Colorado, and no. 4 Texas - bowl team (won said bowl). He lost to no. 21 Nebraska - bowl team, no. 24 Missouri - bowl team, ku - bowl eligible (with moral victories over Baylor, Toledo, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Nebraska), and no. 12 ranked Rutgers - bowl team (won said bowl).

Kerry beat 4-7 Northwestern St, 4-8 Lousiana Monroe, 4-8 Iowa State, and 7-6 Kansas State. He lost to 5-7 Toledo, 7-6 OSU - bowl team (won said bowl game), 4-8 Baylor, and 8-5 Missouri - bowl team. Plus, wasn't one of those wins against a Div. I-AA team?

Josh didn't lose to a team with a losing record. Kerry lost to two. Obviously, it's not even comparable.

Well if all else fails lets check head to head. Hows that working out for you?

So OSU > NU?  I mean, head to head OSU beat NU so OSU's the better team, right?

[Jayhoxx]

I can sense the post coming . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .Someone is going to try and say that ku and K-State are on anything other than comperable footing.   

[Sandman]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

What was their conference record as starters?  TIA and LOL at your OOC.

So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses?  That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman.  Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary?  But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.

This thread was started to compare the two QB's.

Both were 4-4 as starters.  Meier is 1-0 head to head.  Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps.  Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.

Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not.  But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman.  Does Freeman have more upside? Sure.  But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.

[The Manhatter]

Seriously, you're comparing the Golden Boy to the Delivery Boy...the insecurity level of K-State's fanbase needs to be checked.

LOL..very true.  But it's still fun to post the facts.

Love your posts Hatter, just prefer the ones when you focus your attn to the Nubs.  This ku stuff is way below you.

does my bitterness over 39-20 show?  Do I have something in my teeth?

[NorthChamps07]

Call me back when KM puts the team on his back and carries them to victory, even if it's a I-AA program.  I'll count it!   Also, CC > KM

[The Manhatter]

Hatter, post the entire list from your Phog post.  It does a pretty good job showing that Meier and Freeman are pretty comperable.  I will always think very highly of Freeman for giving us the ball 6 times in our game last year.  Quite the humanitarian.

Overall, The Manslaughter has done a pretty good job of showing that Meier and Freeman aren't much different.

hmmm..comparable.  

Of course Meier started against the same schedule (cough NW St, La Mon, Toledo, Baylor, ISU) and had experienced players all around him not only in playing expeirence but experience in a program that had not changed in the previous year....not to mention a consistent running game.

But yeah...comparable.  

[The Manhatter]

jayhoxx axed me to post it so here it is in it's entirety for those who cannot "enter the phog"


this thread is amusing concerning the QB position.  It's not even close in terms
of talent.
 
But let's look at the numbers more closely...
 
STARTS only.  I really don't care what Freeman did as a true freshman coming in
as a relief pitcher early in the season.
 
Freeman went 4-4 as a starter( 4-3 in Big 12 play).
Meier went 4-4 as a starter (2-3 in Big 12 play). 
 
Freeman had a much tougher schedule as a starter.
 
Freeman starts
opponent  comp-att-yards-int-td
 
W - OSU  10-15-177-0-0
L  - Nubb 23-47-272-2-0
L  - Mizz  5-19-63-2-0
W - ISU   14-20-161-1-1 
W - Colo  22-26-251-0-2   
W - Tex   19-31-269-1-3
L -  Kan   23-44-244-3-0   
L -  Rut   10-21-129-2-0
4-4 (4-3) 126-223-1,566-11-6
 
Meier starts
opponent  comp-att-yards-int-td
 
W - NW St  8-18-110-1-2   
W - La Mon 16-27-185-2-2   
L - Toledo   23-41-243-4-2   
L - OSU      15-27-187-1-3
L - Baylor     6-11-62-0-1   
W - ISU      17-22-199-0-2   
W - KSU      11-23-108-2-0
L  - Mizz      8-15-99-0-1
4-4 (2-3)    104-184-1,193-10-13

  = LOL opponents
 
summary
 
games started: Meier 8 Freeman 8
record as starter: Meier 4-4  Freeman 4-4
record in Big 12: Meier 2-3  Freeman 4-3
Bowl Opponents starts: Meier 3  Freeman 5
Top 15 opponents starts: Meier 0  Freeman 2
Completion % in starts: Meier 56.5  Freeman 56.5
Yards per game in starts: Meier 149.1  Freeman 195.8
Yards per attempt: Meier 6.5  Freeman 7.0
Yards per completion: Meier 11.5  Freeman 12.4
interceptions in starts: Meier 10 Freeman 11 (wow, big diff. w/ lighter sched)
TD's passing in starts: Meier 13  Freeman 6 (thank you soft sched!!)
attempts per int's: Meier 18.4  Freeman 20.3
consistent running game to help passing game: Meier - yes  Freeman - No
Healthy receivers:  Meier - yes  Freeman - No
Experienced OL:  Meier - yes  Freeman - No
Year in program:  Meier - yes  Freeman - No
1st year head coach and offense - Meier - No  Freeman - yes
Bowl - Meier - No  Freeman - Yes
 
 
Bottom line is that Meier had a solid running game and an offense surrounding
him where there were experienced players both as starters and in an offensive
system under a head coach who had been there for 5 years.  Freeman had an
inconsistent running game and an offense surrounding him where there were
INexperienced players in the new offense under a first year head coach.  And he
had a receiving corps that was banged up throughout the year.
 
Meier did throw more TD passes by virtue of a weaker schedule.  Congrats to
Kerry.

[catzacker]

They were both 4-4 as starters.

What was their conference record as starters?  TIA and LOL at your OOC.

So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses?  That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman.  Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary?  But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.

This thread was started to compare the two QB's.

Both were 4-4 as starters.  Meier is 1-0 head to head.  Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps.  Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.

Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not.  But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman.  Does Freeman have more upside? Sure.  But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.

Yes, if you don't count the conference win/loss record (which by ku football standards you shouldn't) they had a very comparable year (also not counting KM being a RS freshman and JF being a true freshman). 

[KSU4ME]

KSU4ME 

^^^ All PC has ^^^

I'll ensure any post I think you might read is broken down to a third grade level.

Obee-kaybee?

[The Manhatter]

So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses?  That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman.  Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary?  But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.

This thread was started to compare the two QB's.

Both were 4-4 as starters.  Meier is 1-0 head to head.  Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps.  Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.

Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not.  But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman.  Does Freeman have more upside? Sure.  But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.

f'ng priceless.

10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against...ready for this?  NW St, La Monroe, and Toledo.

Do I need to repeat that?  Okay, I will...10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against NW St., La Monroe, and Toledo.

Wait..if you call now I'll throw in 4 more TD's vs. Baylor and Iowa State for absolutely free!  That's right...Meier scored 14 of his 18 TD's vs. NW St, La Monroe, Toledo, Baylor, and ISU!!


Seriously...does anybody truly need any more information?  If you think Meier had a better year when he faced doorknob teams and had a better supporting cast in terms of experience, consistent running game, etc. then you are walking around w/ a hole in your head or something.

[S. Parker]

facts

What's going on with his mustache?

[Sandman]

So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses?  That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman.  Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary?  But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.

This thread was started to compare the two QB's.

Both were 4-4 as starters.  Meier is 1-0 head to head.  Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps.  Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.

Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not.  But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman.  Does Freeman have more upside? Sure.  But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.

f'ng priceless.

10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against...ready for this?  NW St, La Monroe, and Toledo.

Do I need to repeat that?  Okay, I will...10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against NW St., La Monroe, and Toledo.

Wait..if you call now I'll throw in 4 more TD's vs. Baylor and Iowa State for absolutely free!  That's right...Meier scored 14 of his 18 TD's vs. NW St, La Monroe, Toledo, Baylor, and ISU!!


Seriously...does anybody truly need any more information?  If you think Meier had a better year when he faced doorknob teams and had a better supporting cast in terms of experience, consistent running game, etc. then you are walking around w/ a hole in your head or something.

What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year?  I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse.  You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier.  Freeman was bad last year.  6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.

[chum1]

Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet.  In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.

[fatty fat fat]

Meier stats came against garbage competition.

[The Manhatter]

What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year?  I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse.  You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier.  Freeman was bad last year.  6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.

Meier was a redshirt freshman...not a true freshman.
Meier had an OL.
Meier had a healthy receiving corps.
Meier had a consistent running game.
Meier had experienced players surrounding him.
Meier had players surrounding him who had spent a great deal of time in Mangino's offense.

and other than his TD numbers(which were inflated against the pastsies) his numbers were WORSE!!

Go ahead and throw in Freeman's int's against Louisville or Baylor or whomever when he's an 18 year old unprepared in relief duty if it makes you feel better.

All things fairly equal ask yourself, honestly, if you think the moustache holds a candle to Freeman.

[The Manhatter]

Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet.  In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.

You got me on that one.  Good stuff.  How many years you been waiting to break that one out? 

[fatty fat fat]

I have to admit, looking at the Texas boxscore from today, my jaw dropped when I saw Free's stats.

Unreal.

[cireksu]

Meier won't start next year this thread is moot.

[catzacker]

So only QB's are responsible for wins and losses?  That's pretty much what is being said by those supporting Freeman.  Meier is to be blamed becasue ku had a crapty secondary?  But Freeman is to be praised because your special teams saved your bacon on more than one occasion.

This thread was started to compare the two QB's.

Both were 4-4 as starters.  Meier is 1-0 head to head.  Meier had 10 more total touchdowns and 8 more passing touchdowns despite much less attemps.  Meier had 10 ints to Freemans 15.

Listen, I'm certainly not saying that Meier is the greatest things since sliced bread, because he's not.  But the fact remains, in almost anyway you slice it, Meier had just as good a year if not better than Freeman.  Does Freeman have more upside? Sure.  But all potential means is you ain't don it yet.

f'ng priceless.

10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against...ready for this?  NW St, La Monroe, and Toledo.

Do I need to repeat that?  Okay, I will...10 of Meier's 18 TD's came against NW St., La Monroe, and Toledo.

Wait..if you call now I'll throw in 4 more TD's vs. Baylor and Iowa State for absolutely free!  That's right...Meier scored 14 of his 18 TD's vs. NW St, La Monroe, Toledo, Baylor, and ISU!!


Seriously...does anybody truly need any more information?  If you think Meier had a better year when he faced doorknob teams and had a better supporting cast in terms of experience, consistent running game, etc. then you are walking around w/ a hole in your head or something.

What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year?  I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse.  You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier.  Freeman was bad last year.  6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.

Freeman (a true freshman) was good enough to lead KSU to win 4 conference games, something no KSU QB has done since 2003, that's why we think he had a good year, not because when compared to your pussy, weak armed, injury prone redshirt freshman QB he's better.  

[chum1]

Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet.  In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.

You got me on that one.  Good stuff.  How many years you been waiting to break that one out?

Not as long as for the John Randle embarrassment.     I don't have anything more recent because that's about when I stopped reading GoPropagandaCat    althogether.  From the looks of things around here these days, I'll have plenty more in the very near future.   

[The Manhatter]

Speaking of all time great Manhatter thoughts, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Are you ready for the beef?/300 lb. ballerina sig yet.  In general, it's probably pretty bad news if you are a recruit and Manhatter is excited about you - kind of a bad omen.

You got me on that one.  Good stuff.  How many years you been waiting to break that one out?

Not as long as for the John Randle embarrassment.     I don't have anything more recent because that's about when I stopped reading GoPropagandaCat    althogether.  From the looks of things around here these days, I'll have plenty more in the very near future.   

Did you have to bring up Randle? 

I cannot escape chum..my sweaty-toothed madman.

[Sandman]

What does any of that have anything to do with Freeman being ineffective and plain bad most of last year?  I stated I wasn't that impressed at all with Meier, but the fact is, Freeman was worse.  You stand up for Freeman by saying nothing about him, but instead trash Meier.  Freeman was bad last year.  6 td's and 15 int's are bad, who cares who they are against.

Meier was a redshirt freshman...not a true freshman.
Meier had an OL.
Meier had a healthy receiving corps.
Meier had a consistent running game.
Meier had experienced players surrounding him.
Meier had players surrounding him who had spent a great deal of time in Mangino's offense.

and other than his TD numbers(which were inflated against the pastsies) his numbers were WORSE!!

Go ahead and throw in Freeman's int's against Louisville or Baylor or whomever when he's an 18 year old unprepared in relief duty if it makes you feel better.

All things fairly equal ask yourself, honestly, if you think the moustache holds a candle to Freeman.

Once again you're trashing Meier while trying to defend Freeman.  I've admitted I'm not impressed with Meier, but the fact remains Freeman was worse.  He had six passing TD's in 8 starts (plus quite a few appearances in games he didn't start).  That's less than one a game.  That's bad against any competition.  He had 15 int's and lord knows how many fumbles lost. That's bad against any competition.  And the 18 year true freshman in a relief role thing that you're pulling out, ku's Reesing didn't do so bad in that role. So why, exactly, is everyone supposed to be in awe of Freeman?  Was it his awesome Spring Game performance?

[The Manhatter]

Once again you're trashing Meier while trying to defend Freeman.  I've admitted I'm not impressed with Meier, but the fact remains Freeman was worse.  He had six passing TD's in 8 starts (plus quite a few appearances in games he didn't start).  That's less than one a game.  That's bad against any competition.  He had 15 int's and lord knows how many fumbles lost. That's bad against any competition.  And the 18 year true freshman in a relief role thing that you're pulling out, ku's Reesing didn't do so bad in that role. So why, exactly, is everyone supposed to be in awe of Freeman?  Was it his awesome Spring Game performance?

If you close your eyes and nod three times Freeman will no longer be talented and capable of winning games on his own.

keep telling yourself over and over again that some int's (half of which were tipped by his own receivers) and a lack of TD's (Prince ran it a ton near the redzone) indicate some kid just one year out of high school sucks.

good stuff.

[catzacker]

Once again you're trashing Meier while trying to defend Freeman.  I've admitted I'm not impressed with Meier, but the fact remains Freeman was worse.  He had six passing TD's in 8 starts (plus quite a few appearances in games he didn't start).  That's less than one a game.  That's bad against any competition.  He had 15 int's and lord knows how many fumbles lost. That's bad against any competition.  And the 18 year true freshman in a relief role thing that you're pulling out, ku's Reesing didn't do so bad in that role. So why, exactly, is everyone supposed to be in awe of Freeman?  Was it his awesome Spring Game performance?

So Arthur with his 5 stars and his fairly weak 8.6ppg in conference won't be better next year?  That's what you're arguing.  Arthur didn't really do crap for as much hype as I had to hear from ku fans, yet you expect him to get better, right?  Why the hell can't KSU fans expect the same thing from Freeman?  Freeman had good games and bad games, and when it was all said and done, led his team to a bowl game and 4 conference wins (both for the first time since 2003).  And all of that behind an offensive line that could get overtaken by angry girl scouts.