BITB fires shot over Currie's bow, and basically calls Currie a huge POS

[Pete]

kkietz

Post #615
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And I don't really know what happened in this case, this is more of a crime than a "benefit".

If this is somebody they know, and not a person in position of management or ownership, they weren't getting anything because they were basketball players. Do you guys realize what young employees will do at your businesses? They will steal toilet paper, ketchup bottles, coffee and if you're in retail, anything they think they can get away with. They use their friends all the time to commit these "crimes". Many are minor, all of them are illegal and something you should be fired for.

But this is not what the NCAA is really that interested in. If Jake and Curtis scammed some stuff with somebody they know, the manager or owner of the store can press charges and should. Frank can suspend them if he wants.

My main concern here is that we have an overactive compliance department at K-state and I don't think the coaches are very thrilled with the way we do business in this area. Compliance people typically are experts and sounding boards for coaches that have questions. It's my understanding at KSU that we have a department that is constantly digging and looking for things. This is VERY RARE in NCAA athletics.

Seems to me if what we've heard so far is true, there could have been two viable solutions.

1)Store manager presses charges
2)Store manager agrees to press no charges if all items are returned and amployee is terminated.

So how did we get to a phone call made to athletics and athletics turns itself in and turns it over to NCAA?

[sonofdaxjones]

Like I said last night, kiss all hope of regular Near Glory goodbye if we have such a proactive, Stasi like compliance department and AD.

Keitz has a point, this is essentially stealing . . . press charges, suspend the guys for a game or two, make them pay restitution and fines, and leave the NCAA out of it.

Yeah, you could probably technically call it an "impermissable (sp?) beni" but at what point do you draw the line at people being people, and a K-State booster/athletic interests offering an illegal beni??

[catzacker]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

[doom]

Warm up the fire currie shirts?

[Pete]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

I thought it took more than that...not much more, but more than that.  I thought you had to at least donate....don't really know, though.

Anyway, I'm with Keitz on this....time to warm up the "fire so-and-so-in-the-compliance-dept" movement.

[sonofdaxjones]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

It does take a little more than that.  No much . . . like season tickets, or giving $5 buck to the Ahearn Fund. 

[deputy dawg]

Kietz is full of sh1t.  First, it doesn't meet the elements of a theft charge to be prosecuted in Kansas.  That should tell you a lot.

Here's the statute:
      21-3701.   Theft. (a) Theft is any of the following acts done with intent to deprive the owner permanently of the possession, use or benefit of the owner's property:

      (1)   Obtaining or exerting unauthorized control over property;

      (2)   obtaining by deception control over property;

      (3)   obtaining by threat control over property; or

      (4)   obtaining control over stolen property knowing the property to have been stolen by another.

      (b) (1)   Theft of property of the value of $100,000 or more is a severity level 5, nonperson felony.

      (2)   Theft of property of the value of at least $25,000 but less than $100,000 is a severity level 7, nonperson felony.

      (3)   Theft of property of the value of at least $1,000 but less than $25,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (4)   Theft of property regardless of the value from three separate mercantile establishments within a period of 72 hours as part of the same act or transaction or in two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (5)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a class A nonperson misdemeanor.

      (6)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony if committed by a person who has been convicted of theft two or more times.

      (c)   Conviction of a violation of a municipal ordinance prohibiting acts which constitute theft as defined by this section shall be considered a conviction of theft for the purpose of determining the number of prior convictions and the classification of the crime under this section.

Notice that the control over the property ty Pullen or Kelly is not "unauthorized".  It's not known if the employee used proper authorization, but from a legal standpoint, the employee is an "agent" of the store, and Pullen and Kelly have to accept that he is acting in the interests of the store.

RCPD has no problems charging student athletes.  Why doesn't one of the geniuses that think this is a "crime" request a police report on this?

[doom]

Kietz is full of sh1t.  First, it doesn't meet the elements of a theft charge to be prosecuted in Kansas.  That should tell you a lot.

Here's the statute:
      21-3701.   Theft. (a) Theft is any of the following acts done with intent to deprive the owner permanently of the possession, use or benefit of the owner's property:

      (1)   Obtaining or exerting unauthorized control over property;

      (2)   obtaining by deception control over property;

      (3)   obtaining by threat control over property; or

      (4)   obtaining control over stolen property knowing the property to have been stolen by another.

      (b) (1)   Theft of property of the value of $100,000 or more is a severity level 5, nonperson felony.

      (2)   Theft of property of the value of at least $25,000 but less than $100,000 is a severity level 7, nonperson felony.

      (3)   Theft of property of the value of at least $1,000 but less than $25,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (4)   Theft of property regardless of the value from three separate mercantile establishments within a period of 72 hours as part of the same act or transaction or in two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (5)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a class A nonperson misdemeanor.

      (6)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony if committed by a person who has been convicted of theft two or more times.

      (c)   Conviction of a violation of a municipal ordinance prohibiting acts which constitute theft as defined by this section shall be considered a conviction of theft for the purpose of determining the number of prior convictions and the classification of the crime under this section.

Notice that the control over the property ty Pullen or Kelly is not "unauthorized".  It's not known if the employee used proper authorization, but from a legal standpoint, the employee is an "agent" of the store, and Pullen and Kelly have to accept that he is acting in the interests of the store.

RCPD has no problems charging student athletes.  Why doesn't one of the geniuses that think this is a "crime" request a police report on this?

 

[Pete]

JFC, we need a ruling on who to start hating now.  Dillards, our AD's office, Frank, Jake/Curt....this is all very confusing.

[deputy dawg]

Kietz is full of sh1t.  First, it doesn't meet the elements of a theft charge to be prosecuted in Kansas.  That should tell you a lot.

Here's the statute:
      21-3701.   Theft. (a) Theft is any of the following acts done with intent to deprive the owner permanently of the possession, use or benefit of the owner's property:

      (1)   Obtaining or exerting unauthorized control over property;

      (2)   obtaining by deception control over property;

      (3)   obtaining by threat control over property; or

      (4)   obtaining control over stolen property knowing the property to have been stolen by another.

      (b) (1)   Theft of property of the value of $100,000 or more is a severity level 5, nonperson felony.

      (2)   Theft of property of the value of at least $25,000 but less than $100,000 is a severity level 7, nonperson felony.

      (3)   Theft of property of the value of at least $1,000 but less than $25,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (4)   Theft of property regardless of the value from three separate mercantile establishments within a period of 72 hours as part of the same act or transaction or in two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (5)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a class A nonperson misdemeanor.

      (6)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony if committed by a person who has been convicted of theft two or more times.

      (c)   Conviction of a violation of a municipal ordinance prohibiting acts which constitute theft as defined by this section shall be considered a conviction of theft for the purpose of determining the number of prior convictions and the classification of the crime under this section.

Notice that the control over the property ty Pullen or Kelly is not "unauthorized".  It's not known if the employee used proper authorization, but from a legal standpoint, the employee is an "agent" of the store, and Pullen and Kelly have to accept that he is acting in the interests of the store.

RCPD has no problems charging student athletes.  Why doesn't one of the geniuses that think this is a "crime" request a police report on this?

So, you know that the clerk didn't have authority to give this stuff away.  Do tell if you know something the rest of the public does not. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Dawg does bring up a great point.

So it was up to a couple of college guys to the mature ones, ask the questions about the clerks authority etc. etc. . . . not going to happen.

This is one reason why a 3 game suspension is Bull$hit.  

Hell who knows . . . 

[Dugout DickStone]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

There is no way on earth this is accurate.

[MakeItRain]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

There is no way on earth this is accurate.

Pretty sure that's what the season ticket packet says.  Someone near their season ticket faq page check this.

[mcmwcat]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

I thought it took more than that...not much more, but more than that.  I thought you had to at least donate....don't really know, though.

Anyway, I'm with Keitz on this....time to warm up the "fire so-and-so-in-the-compliance-dept" movement.

let's do it the KU way - not have a compliance dept during hoops season and see what we can get away with

[kougar24]

Dammit, I was afraid we were headed down this road when Currie bragged about carrying around the budget on a flashcard in his pocket.

[Trim]

Kietz is full of sh1t.  First, it doesn't meet the elements of a theft charge to be prosecuted in Kansas.  That should tell you a lot.

Of course it fits the elements.  I've prosecuted it.

[catzacker]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

There is no way on earth this is accurate.

Pretty sure that's what the season ticket packet says.  Someone near their season ticket faq page check this.

i think i mispoke...it is season tickets..but it says any financial contribution.  for some reason I thought they extended this to just buying a a ticket.   from ark's website:

The NCAA defines a booster as:
* An individual who is a member of the institution's athletics booster club.

* An individual who has made financial contributions to the booster club or the Athletic Department.

* An individual who is involved in providing benefits (e.g. summer jobs) to prospects or enrolled student-athletes.

* An individual who has been otherwise involved in promoting University of Arkansas (i.e. buying season tickets).

[MakeItRain]

kkietz

Post #615
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And I don't really know what happened in this case, this is more of a crime than a "benefit".

If this is somebody they know, and not a person in position of management or ownership, they weren't getting anything because they were basketball players. Do you guys realize what young employees will do at your businesses? They will steal toilet paper, ketchup bottles, coffee and if you're in retail, anything they think they can get away with. They use their friends all the time to commit these "crimes". Many are minor, all of them are illegal and something you should be fired for.

But this is not what the NCAA is really that interested in. If Jake and Curtis scammed some stuff with somebody they know, the manager or owner of the store can press charges and should. Frank can suspend them if he wants.

My main concern here is that we have an overactive compliance department at K-state and I don't think the coaches are very thrilled with the way we do business in this area. Compliance people typically are experts and sounding boards for coaches that have questions. It's my understanding at KSU that we have a department that is constantly digging and looking for things. This is VERY RARE in NCAA athletics.

Seems to me if what we've heard so far is true, there could have been two viable solutions.

1)Store manager presses charges
2)Store manager agrees to press no charges if all items are returned and amployee is terminated.

So how did we get to a phone call made to athletics and athletics turns itself in and turns it over to NCAA?

Do people think about multiple scenarios or do they generally just run with the first line of bullshit that pops into their head?  Rhetorical question.

If you're the compliance dept, do you handle this as soon as you find out or do you say eff it let the NCAA possibly find out on their own and we'll deal with it if they do?  To blame the AD or compliance department is the dumbest rough ridin' thing I have ever seen.  Not surprising considering the source.  If you are K-State you don't eff with the NCAA.  We don't swing a hammer you yessir them as much as possible to keep them out of your face.

[MakeItRain]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

There is no way on earth this is accurate.

Pretty sure that's what the season ticket packet says.  Someone near their season ticket faq page check this.

i think i mispoke...it is season tickets..but it says any financial contribution.  for some reason I thought they extended this to just buying a a ticket.   from ark's website:

The NCAA defines a booster as:
* An individual who is a member of the institution's athletics booster club.

* An individual who has made financial contributions to the booster club or the Athletic Department.

* An individual who is involved in providing benefits (e.g. summer jobs) to prospects or enrolled student-athletes.

* An individual who has been otherwise involved in promoting University of Arkansas (i.e. buying season tickets).

 From the KSU Compliance dept.

A ‘representative’ of Kansas State’s athletic
interests is: an individual who is known (or who
should have been known) by a member of KState’s
executive or athletics administration to:
• have participated in or to be a member of
an agency or organization promoting KSU
athletics.
• have made fi nancial contributions to the
athletic department or to an athletic booster
organization of K-State.
• have been involved otherwise in promoting
the institution’s athletic program.
• bought or received tickets to a K-State athletics
event.
Once an individual is identified as an ‘athletic
representative,’ the person retains that identity
forever.

so yes all you need to do is go to a game

http://www.kstatesports.com/compliance/pdf/48390.pdf

[MakeItRain]

if the employee ever attended a ksu athletic event, he/she is considered a booster.  

There is no way on earth this is accurate.

Pretty sure that's what the season ticket packet says.  Someone near their season ticket faq page check this.

i think i mispoke...it is season tickets..but it says any financial contribution.  for some reason I thought they extended this to just buying a a ticket.   from ark's website:

The NCAA defines a booster as:
* An individual who is a member of the institution's athletics booster club.

* An individual who has made financial contributions to the booster club or the Athletic Department.

* An individual who is involved in providing benefits (e.g. summer jobs) to prospects or enrolled student-athletes.

* An individual who has been otherwise involved in promoting University of Arkansas (i.e. buying season tickets).

 From the KSU Compliance dept.

A ‘representative’ of Kansas State’s athletic
interests is: an individual who is known (or who
should have been known) by a member of KState’s
executive or athletics administration to:
• have participated in or to be a member of
an agency or organization promoting KSU
athletics.
• have made fi nancial contributions to the
athletic department or to an athletic booster
organization of K-State.
• have been involved otherwise in promoting
the institution’s athletic program.
• bought or received tickets to a K-State athletics
event.
Once an individual is identified as an ‘athletic
representative,’ the person retains that identity
forever.

so yes all you need to do is go to a game

http://www.kstatesports.com/compliance/pdf/48390.pdf

Not even sure why this matters, you cannot receive impermissible benefits from anyone, authorized rep or not

[deputy dawg]

Kietz is full of sh1t.  First, it doesn't meet the elements of a theft charge to be prosecuted in Kansas.  That should tell you a lot.

Of course it fits the elements.  I've prosecuted it.

I doubt it was a jury trial.  Prosecutors get bogus pleas all the time.  Your defendant was a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), which of course, you relied upon to get your plea.

["storm"nut]

this is the reason K-State will never be good at anything. We will never be able to bring in or keep a winning coach with a compliance office like ours. Have a compliance office that will "do the right thing" and follow ever letter of the law will scare away any good coach from our program and lead to a good up and comer to leave. If I ma not giving a big enough hint, Frank was more pissed that compliance would not let him handle this internally. You take the keys away from a coach he will find a new car to drive sooner rather than later.

[deputy dawg]

Kietz is full of sh1t.  First, it doesn't meet the elements of a theft charge to be prosecuted in Kansas.  That should tell you a lot.

Here's the statute:
      21-3701.   Theft. (a) Theft is any of the following acts done with intent to deprive the owner permanently of the possession, use or benefit of the owner's property:

      (1)   Obtaining or exerting unauthorized control over property;

      (2)   obtaining by deception control over property;

      (3)   obtaining by threat control over property; or

      (4)   obtaining control over stolen property knowing the property to have been stolen by another.

      (b) (1)   Theft of property of the value of $100,000 or more is a severity level 5, nonperson felony.

      (2)   Theft of property of the value of at least $25,000 but less than $100,000 is a severity level 7, nonperson felony.

      (3)   Theft of property of the value of at least $1,000 but less than $25,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (4)   Theft of property regardless of the value from three separate mercantile establishments within a period of 72 hours as part of the same act or transaction or in two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct is a severity level 9, nonperson felony.

      (5)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a class A nonperson misdemeanor.

      (6)   Theft of property of the value of less than $1,000 is a severity level 9, nonperson felony if committed by a person who has been convicted of theft two or more times.

      (c)   Conviction of a violation of a municipal ordinance prohibiting acts which constitute theft as defined by this section shall be considered a conviction of theft for the purpose of determining the number of prior convictions and the classification of the crime under this section.

Notice that the control over the property ty Pullen or Kelly is not "unauthorized".  It's not known if the employee used proper authorization, but from a legal standpoint, the employee is an "agent" of the store, and Pullen and Kelly have to accept that he is acting in the interests of the store.

RCPD has no problems charging student athletes.  Why doesn't one of the geniuses that think this is a "crime" request a police report on this?

 

The clerk had authorized control over the property, so it wasn't stolen.  Good cite if  Pullen and Kelly were buying the goods from a fence.  That's not what's going on here.

[Stupid Fitz]

JFC, we need a ruling on who to start hating now.  Dillards, our AD's office, Frank, Jake/Curt....this is all very confusing.

I pretty much hate all of them at this point.  I think I hate our compliance dicks the most though.  Frank should have "handled" this.  They got a discount on a few polos from some whore at fracking Dillards, they didn't get a money bag from a damn booster.   

[WillieWatanabe]

JFC, we need a ruling on who to start hating now.  Dillards, our AD's office, Frank, Jake/Curt....this is all very confusing.