MEH

[MakeItRain]

I'm going to guess it's this, and this is just a guess.  With this team, with no true point guard, all of these guys, Sprads included are shooting guards, Frank has to decide who is the most valuable at the 2 and the guy playing the point has to sacrifice some O to keep the offense going.

With this revelation I am going to give up a talking point.  I thought the combo-guard look would work with this team like it did last year, but not quite as well.  It is obvious that the combo-guard positions only work when one of the guys is an actual point guard.

Probably pretty accurate, though I'd call Sprads more of a PG than a SG.

Now you're going to force me to go back to those old talking points.  I believe that Sprads would be much more productive as a shooting guard, next to a true point guard.  He is more than a PG now but like I said I think it is negatively effecting every part of his game.  He is a much better shooter than he's been, he is being asked to do too much.

hes a true freshman.  hes also a point guard, just not a very good one.  in no way is he a shooting guard at this level.

If you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to qualify that opinion.

which part?

which part do you think, if you have to ask nevermind

the chicks on Venus have 7 tits, how do I know, I just do, I have an eye for such things

[Cire]

I've never seen a D1 point guard have so much trouble getting a ball up the court.  it's excruciating.

[swish1]

I'm going to guess it's this, and this is just a guess.  With this team, with no true point guard, all of these guys, Sprads included are shooting guards, Frank has to decide who is the most valuable at the 2 and the guy playing the point has to sacrifice some O to keep the offense going.

With this revelation I am going to give up a talking point.  I thought the combo-guard look would work with this team like it did last year, but not quite as well.  It is obvious that the combo-guard positions only work when one of the guys is an actual point guard.

Probably pretty accurate, though I'd call Sprads more of a PG than a SG.

Now you're going to force me to go back to those old talking points.  I believe that Sprads would be much more productive as a shooting guard, next to a true point guard.  He is more than a PG now but like I said I think it is negatively effecting every part of his game.  He is a much better shooter than he's been, he is being asked to do too much.

hes a true freshman.  hes also a point guard, just not a very good one.  in no way is he a shooting guard at this level.

If you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to qualify that opinion.

which part?

which part do you think, if you have to ask nevermind

the chicks on Venus have 7 tits, how do I know, I just do, I have an eye for such things

he is in over his head.  hes not athletic enough to ever play the 2.  i have no idea how good of a shooter he actually is.  other than that my opinion is solely that he is a freshman point guard being asked to start irregardless of his actual talent level.  what has he done to show any ability to play shooting guard other than probably being a decent shooter when given plenty of time to shoot the ball?

[MakeItRain]

I'm going to guess it's this, and this is just a guess.  With this team, with no true point guard, all of these guys, Sprads included are shooting guards, Frank has to decide who is the most valuable at the 2 and the guy playing the point has to sacrifice some O to keep the offense going.

With this revelation I am going to give up a talking point.  I thought the combo-guard look would work with this team like it did last year, but not quite as well.  It is obvious that the combo-guard positions only work when one of the guys is an actual point guard.

Probably pretty accurate, though I'd call Sprads more of a PG than a SG.

Now you're going to force me to go back to those old talking points.  I believe that Sprads would be much more productive as a shooting guard, next to a true point guard.  He is more than a PG now but like I said I think it is negatively effecting every part of his game.  He is a much better shooter than he's been, he is being asked to do too much.

hes a true freshman.  hes also a point guard, just not a very good one.  in no way is he a shooting guard at this level.

If you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to qualify that opinion.

which part?

which part do you think, if you have to ask nevermind

the chicks on Venus have 7 tits, how do I know, I just do, I have an eye for such things

he is in over his head.  hes not athletic enough to ever play the 2.  i have no idea how good of a shooter he actually is.  other than that my opinion is solely that he is a freshman point guard being asked to start irregardless of his actual talent level.  what has he done to show any ability to play shooting guard other than probably being a decent shooter when given plenty of time to shoot the ball?

What level of athleticism do you need at the two that you don't need at the one?  Your argument for him playing the point is that he isn't athletic enough for the two?  Please tell me you're not being serious?  If he is what you say, "a decent shooter when given plenty of time to shoot the ball," doesn't that make him ideal to play the two.  "Hey kid I don't think you are as athletic as the other guys, not really able to create much, so I'm going to put you at the point."  Make plenty of sense.

Look I know what Will is on this team, that was settled by fan about 20 posts ago, ideally we would not want a ball mover as our starting point guard.  This isn't really up for any kind of debate.

[swish1]

I'm going to guess it's this, and this is just a guess.  With this team, with no true point guard, all of these guys, Sprads included are shooting guards, Frank has to decide who is the most valuable at the 2 and the guy playing the point has to sacrifice some O to keep the offense going.

With this revelation I am going to give up a talking point.  I thought the combo-guard look would work with this team like it did last year, but not quite as well.  It is obvious that the combo-guard positions only work when one of the guys is an actual point guard.

Probably pretty accurate, though I'd call Sprads more of a PG than a SG.

Now you're going to force me to go back to those old talking points.  I believe that Sprads would be much more productive as a shooting guard, next to a true point guard.  He is more than a PG now but like I said I think it is negatively effecting every part of his game.  He is a much better shooter than he's been, he is being asked to do too much.

hes a true freshman.  hes also a point guard, just not a very good one.  in no way is he a shooting guard at this level.

If you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to qualify that opinion.

which part?

which part do you think, if you have to ask nevermind

the chicks on Venus have 7 tits, how do I know, I just do, I have an eye for such things

he is in over his head.  hes not athletic enough to ever play the 2.  i have no idea how good of a shooter he actually is.  other than that my opinion is solely that he is a freshman point guard being asked to start irregardless of his actual talent level.  what has he done to show any ability to play shooting guard other than probably being a decent shooter when given plenty of time to shoot the ball?

What level of athleticism do you need at the two that you don't need at the one?  Your argument for him playing the point is that he isn't athletic enough for the two?  Please tell me you're not being serious?  If he is what you say, "a decent shooter when given plenty of time to shoot the ball," doesn't that make him ideal to play the two.  "Hey kid I don't think you are as athletic as the other guys, not really able to create much, so I'm going to put you at the point."  Make plenty of sense.

Look I know what Will is on this team, that was settled by fan about 20 posts ago, ideally we would not want a ball mover as our starting point guard.  This isn't really up for any kind of debate.

the difference in athleticism between the 2 and the 1 would be vertical ability.  spradling doesnt have that.  being a good point guard doesnt necessarily require one to be terribly athletic, see doug gottlieb.  you can penetrate and create without being terribly athletic, but that isnt the point i was trying to make.

hes not a shooting guard.  he is a backup point guard that is being asked to start as a true freshman.  that is the point i was trying to make.  i dont see how you can say he would be more productive as a shooting guard unless you are talking only about scoring; and why would you want him to be playing off the ball when we have better options like russell and irving?

[Cire]

He's a spot shooter.   He'd be perfect at texas tech.

[MakeItRain]

the difference in athleticism between the 2 and the 1 would be vertical ability.  

I'm not trying to be mean, but what the eff does this mean?  Are you talking about the ability to jump, because if so LOmotherfuckingL, stop now.  Besides the fact that you can have a vertical of 4" and be a good shooting guard, even if "vertical ability" were a true standard of athleticism at the two, Will is a much better jumper than Jake, does that make him a better two?  Seriously, what are you talking about bro?

the difference in athleticism between the 2 and the 1 would be vertical ability.  spradling doesnt have that.  being a good point guard doesnt necessarily require one to be terribly athletic, see doug gottlieb.  you can penetrate and create without being terribly athletic, but that isnt the point i was trying to make.

Again not trying to be mean but Doug Gottlieb was one of the greatest point guards in the history of the conference if not the best.  He is OSU's all-time leader in assists, and #2 in the history of the conference in only 2 years played, and #10 in the in the history of the NCAA.  

You don't have that without ability to get to the rim, amazing vision, and great touch.  Will has showed none of that.

hes not a shooting guard.  he is a backup point guard that is being asked to start as a true freshman.  that is the point i was trying to make.  i dont see how you can say he would be more productive as a shooting guard unless you are talking only about scoring; and why would you want him to be playing off the ball when we have better options like russell and irving?

You keep mentioning that he is a true freshman, I'm well aware of that, I don't expect anymore than he is currently giving so that talking point is dull to me.  Also you are talking about this team, I have already said he is playing the point on this team because his abilities at the 2 are the easiest to do without right now.  I've said that more than once, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.  I want Will to play the two coming off of the bench behind Nick and Tay and next to a real point guard.

[Dr Rick Daris]

I'm going to guess it's this, and this is just a guess.  With this team, with no true point guard, all of these guys, Sprads included are shooting guards, Frank has to decide who is the most valuable at the 2 and the guy playing the point has to sacrifice some O to keep the offense going.

With this revelation I am going to give up a talking point.  I thought the combo-guard look would work with this team like it did last year, but not quite as well.  It is obvious that the combo-guard positions only work when one of the guys is an actual point guard.

Probably pretty accurate, though I'd call Sprads more of a PG than a SG.

Now you're going to force me to go back to those old talking points.  I believe that Sprads would be much more productive as a shooting guard, next to a true point guard.  He is more than a PG now but like I said I think it is negatively effecting every part of his game.  He is a much better shooter than he's been, he is being asked to do too much.

hes a true freshman.  hes also a point guard, just not a very good one.  in no way is he a shooting guard at this level.

agree with everything mir has said. it's taytay or bust.

[swish1]

the difference in athleticism between the 2 and the 1 would be vertical ability.  

I'm not trying to be mean, but what the eff does this mean?  Are you talking about the ability to jump, because if so LOmothereffingL, stop now.  Besides the fact that you can have a vertical of 4" and be a good shooting guard, even if "vertical ability" were a true standard of athleticism at the two, Will is a much better jumper than Jake, does that make him a better two?  Seriously, what are you talking about bro?

the difference in athleticism between the 2 and the 1 would be vertical ability.  spradling doesnt have that.  being a good point guard doesnt necessarily require one to be terribly athletic, see doug gottlieb.  you can penetrate and create without being terribly athletic, but that isnt the point i was trying to make.

Again not trying to be mean but Doug Gottlieb was one of the greatest point guards in the history of the conference if not the best.  He is OSU's all-time leader in assists, and #2 in the history of the conference in only 2 years played, and #10 in the in the history of the NCAA.  

You don't have that without ability to get to the rim, amazing vision, and great touch.  Will has showed none of that.

hes not a shooting guard.  he is a backup point guard that is being asked to start as a true freshman.  that is the point i was trying to make.  i dont see how you can say he would be more productive as a shooting guard unless you are talking only about scoring; and why would you want him to be playing off the ball when we have better options like russell and irving?

You keep mentioning that he is a true freshman, I'm well aware of that, I don't expect anymore than he is currently giving so that talking point is dull to me.  Also you are talking about this team, I have already said he is playing the point on this team because his abilities at the 2 are the easiest to do without right now.  I've said that more than once, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.  I want Will to play the two coming off of the bench behind Nick and Tay and next to a real point guard.

first of all "will is a better jumper than jake"?  even IF thats true its not like jake is a true shooting guard.  jake makes up for his lack of vertical abilty (height, vertical jump, explosiveness/quickness off the floor, etc...) in other areas that he is clearly more talented in than spradling ever will be.

at what point did I ever claim spradling was gottlieb?  gottlieb is a great example of an nonathletic player that is a great point guard and nothing you said disproves that fact.  in fact everything you said about gottlieb proved my point which was that you dont have to be athletic to be a good point guard.

i guess we agree on the last part except i dont want spradling to ever play the 2 because he doesnt contribute at that position imo.

im not even sure what we are arguing about at this point other than spradling is not a 2 guard.

[MakeItRain]

at what point did I ever claim spradling was gottlieb?  gottlieb is a great example of an nonathletic player that is a great point guard and nothing you said disproves that fact.  in fact everything you said about gottlieb proved my point which was that you dont have to be athletic to be a good point guard.

I'll make the point simpler.  Spradling has none of the attributes that made Gottleib a good point guard, therefore he isn't a good point guard.

Does he appear to take care of the ball?  No
Does he appear to be a good passer?  No
Does he create opportunities for his teammates?  No
Can he penetrate defenses with the dribble?  No
Does he appear to have good vision?  Nope

Will is two things, smart on the court and a good spot up shooter.  With all this in mind I have no idea how anyone could think he would ideally make a better point guard than a shooting guard.  I really hate trashing the kid, like I said I think he would be very effective if he could actually play the role he's intended for.  He shouldn't be asked to be the guy to make this offense go.

[swish1]

at what point did I ever claim spradling was gottlieb?  gottlieb is a great example of an nonathletic player that is a great point guard and nothing you said disproves that fact.  in fact everything you said about gottlieb proved my point which was that you dont have to be athletic to be a good point guard.

I'll make the point simpler.  Spradling has none of the attributes that made Gottleib a good point guard, therefore he isn't a good point guard.

Does he appear to take care of the ball?  No
Does he appear to be a good passer?  No
Does he create opportunities for his teammates?  No
Can he penetrate defenses with the dribble?  No
Does he appear to have good vision?  Nope

Will is two things, smart on the court and a good spot up shooter.  With all this in mind I have no idea how anyone could think he would ideally make a better point guard than a shooting guard.  I really hate trashing the kid, like I said I think he would be very effective if he could actually play the role he's intended for.  He shouldn't be asked to be the guy to make this offense go.

i guess we just different opinions on what a shooting guard should bring to the table.  my opinion is that a shooting guard should be an athletic type of player that can finish at the rim, create his own shot, but can also score from the outside while you just want a guy who can hit the occasional 3.

i would rather have a backup point guard who is smart, handles the ball reasonably well (for a true freshman who still needs to work on his left hand), and doesnt make big mistakes; while allowing someone with some actual talent to be playing off the ball, running off of screens, drawing defenses away so the point guard has a good passing lane into the post, etc.

trust me, i am fully aware spradling isnt gottlieb.

[MakeItRain]

i guess we just different opinions on what a shooting guard should bring to the table.  my opinion is that a shooting guard should be an athletic type of player that can finish at the rim, create his own shot, but can also score from the outside while you just want a guy who can hit the occasional 3.

So what does a small forward do in your offense?

i would rather have a backup point guard who is smart, handles the ball reasonably well (for a true freshman who still needs to work on his left hand), and doesnt make big mistakes; while allowing someone with some actual talent to be playing off the ball, running off of screens, drawing defenses away so the point guard has a good passing lane into the post, etc.

He has the second highest TOR among guards, at some point he's going to actually have to prove he's a good ball handler instead of having that bestowed on him.  I bet that if you reviewed the game film from the season you can count on one hand the number of times he made a post entry pass.

[swish1]

i guess we just different opinions on what a shooting guard should bring to the table.  my opinion is that a shooting guard should be an athletic type of player that can finish at the rim, create his own shot, but can also score from the outside while you just want a guy who can hit the occasional 3.

So what does a small forward do in your offense?

i would rather have a backup point guard who is smart, handles the ball reasonably well (for a true freshman who still needs to work on his left hand), and doesnt make big mistakes; while allowing someone with some actual talent to be playing off the ball, running off of screens, drawing defenses away so the point guard has a good passing lane into the post, etc.

He has the second highest TOR among guards, at some point he's going to actually have to prove he's a good ball handler instead of having that bestowed on him.  I bet that if you reviewed the game film from the season you can count on one hand the number of times he made a post entry pass.

the small forward and the shooting guard are pretty similar in a lot of offenses...  a 1-4, the triangle, a basic motion or a basic flex, the 2 and the 3 are nearly interchangeable...  when it comes to zone offenses the only real difference is when you have someone running the baseline...

again, i am not saying he's a great ball handler right now.  he still needs to vastly improve his left hand.  but he is an nonathletic guard adjusting to playing against athletes vastly superior to what he was playing against at the high school level. 

i can remember at least 3 post entry attempts he made to curtis kelly alone in the second half of the florida game... 

again, i am not a will spradling defender.  he should not be playing this much.  i am slightly confused as to how we got here.

[theKSU]

This team tried to get the ball to JO 3 straight times when they had a chance to take the lead and watched the ball piddle out of bounds each time.  Their problem right now is that not enough guys know how to handle the basketball.  The suspensions will pay off in the long run because Tay and Sprads will eventually learn how to stop pissing away possessions. 

Otherwise CU is going to beat this team.. twice maybe.  Doc is on some crazy winning streak. Havs is gaying out (no offense) for the Clones on Twitter. Look out Nortards, we're back!  K-State Basketball is back!!  Nice suits, foot stomping, great defense, 2 non-clueless guys on offense, running the shot clock out--welcome back to the Tan Tom era. 

[wetwillie]

This team tried to get the ball to JO 3 straight times when they had a chance to take the lead and watched the ball piddle out of bounds each time.  Their problem right now is that not enough guys know how to handle the basketball.  The suspensions will pay off in the long run because Tay and Sprads will eventually learn how to stop pissing away possessions. 

Otherwise CU is going to beat this team.. twice maybe.  Doc is on some crazy winning streak. Havs is gaying out (no offense) for the Clones on Twitter. Look out Nortards, we're back!  K-State Basketball is back!!  Nice suits, foot stomping, great defense, 2 non-clueless guys on offense, running the shot clock out--welcome back to the Tan Tom era. 

If nothing else good came from tonight at least maybe guys like this will jump off the bandwagon for good.

[CNS]

My take aways:

 - Tay or bust at PG.  Showed good handles and dece penetration last night.

 - Sprads seems to lack either the speed or the recognition that he has his man beat

 - It is hard for our guys to remember that teams who press will press when they make a shot

 - Rodney is awesome

 - We need to branderson no fewer than two guards in the off season

 - Want Shane to catch up quick

[mcmwcat]

there is no easy answer at the PG/Combo.  i like in order

1. russel
2. irving
3. spradling
4. myles

WHERE IS 95!?!?

[kso_FAN]

Lots of fans are only going to get more and more frustrated until Rod gets here.

[CNS]

Lots of fans are only going to get more and more frustrated until Rod gets here.

  Will he fill the gap as a frosh?

I think Art would say yes, but ....

[Poster formerly known as jthutch]

there is no easy answer at the PG/Combo.  i like in order

1. russel
2. irving
3. spradling
4. myles

WHERE IS 95!?!?

Yes were is 95?  I was hoping to see him last night with Pullen being out but he didn't even see the floor.  He must not like to play defense.

[felix rex]

Lots of fans are only going to get more and more frustrated until Rod gets here.

Not this guy. I am at a definitive "we are what we are" state. 

[slimz]

Irving had some nice drives last night, especially in the first half.  However, he has a tendency to lower his head and not look to pass once he decides to drive, and once UNLV keyed on that in the second half, he was much less productive, and missed several opportunities to pass out to an open teammate and instead dribbled into a turnover. Much more comfortable with him bringing the ball up the court than anyone besides Jake.

Spradling brings no plus to the PG spot right now. He can't pass to open teammates because his back is usually to them as he's shielding his dribble. He gets his pocket picked. As someone else said, he would be more valuable right now as a 2 off the bench who could focus on spot-up shooting.

[Benja]

What's the most important position in college basketball (especially come tournament time)?

If you said pg, you're right. Do we want Doc at that position for us night in and night out? No, we do not. It's a GLARING hole for this team. IDEALLY, as has already been pointed out, he should be playing off ball, getting some spot up three's, and not being asked to shoulder the load at PG on a supposed top five team as a rough ridin' freshmen from shawnee.

Then again, ideally, Doc would be getting 10 min a game, tops, we'd not failed over and over in recruiting to the point where we have no options at the one, and I'd be getting a blowjob at work right now.

But the fact is, this is what we have at the pg spot, it's not gonna change until next year, and unfortunately that probably places a pretty definite ceiling on what this team can accomplish this year, even if/when the front court players do decide to show up.

[Benja]

Another reason we should probably just play jake more at the one and hope somebody (irving/russel/doc/95?) continues to develop at the two.

[MakeItRain]

Then again, ideally, Doc would be getting 10 min a game, tops, we'd not failed over and over in recruiting to the point where we have no options at the one, and I'd be getting a blowjob at work right now.

Calling Spradling a recruiting failure is taking it too far.