Recruiting Watchers

[michigancat]

Is is because they are lazy (the dax position)?
Or just ineffective?
or both?

A new option emerged: They staff bit off more than they could chew in 2008 (the rusty theory) and struck out.

was this caused by being lazy and complacent?

I don't think so.  By all indications, they were recruiting hard back then.  I think they just used poor judgment for the 2008 class and then made it worse by running off players like Sutton, Brown, and Anderson.   And I don't think all our problems are due to the 2008 class, it's just that it changed their approach for the 2010 and 2011 classes.

[kso_FAN]

Good thread, especially Rusty's posts.

[MakeItRain]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

Coach K dropped the ol' [redacted] today

[ednksu]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

I'm not sure about recruiting but I think negative treatment has a negative effect on the program at some level.  Whether it means that recruits don't come (maybe our 2 defections to mizzou?) or players leave early (long list) it has to have some negative effect somewhere.  You don't see Franks kind of  negative reinforcement in other top tier coaches.  If a player fucks up they usually stay in.  You look at Duke/SJU game Sunday coach K never did that when basic fundamentals on the defensive end were ignored.  SJU was able to attack the rim at will, failure at all levels to stop penetration.  K never took out his best players for long periods of time to punish them.  When SJU started to have defensive breakdowns allowing Duke to come back to 15 Lavin (sp) took players out, instructed them and got them back into the flow of the game.  Look at Michigan State, a team with a collapse just as massive as ours.  Izzou isn't destroying his players for the sake of destruction.  He is teaching them how they mumped up and where they need to be next time. 

[swish1]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

I'm not sure about recruiting but I think negative treatment has a negative effect on the program at some level.  Whether it means that recruits don't come (maybe our 2 defections to mizzou?) or players leave early (long list) it has to have some negative effect somewhere.  You don't see Franks kind of  negative reinforcement in other top tier coaches.  If a player effs up they usually stay in.  You look at Duke/SJU game Sunday coach K never did that when basic fundamentals on the defensive end were ignored.  SJU was able to attack the rim at will, failure at all levels to stop penetration.  K never took out his best players for long periods of time to punish them.  When SJU started to have defensive breakdowns allowing Duke to come back to 15 Lavin (sp) took players out, instructed them and got them back into the flow of the game.  Look at Michigan State, a team with a collapse just as massive as ours.  Izzou isn't destroying his players for the sake of destruction.  He is teaching them how they effed up and where they need to be next time. 

personally if i were a recruit and i had a choice between going to a school coached by frank martin, where i would get benched all the time for unknown reasons, or i could go to a school coached by bill self who really doesnt give a crap if i push a bitch into a sink, im gonna go to school where i can push that rough ridin' bitch into the god damn sink...

[michigancat]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

I'm not sure about recruiting but I think negative treatment has a negative effect on the program at some level.  Whether it means that recruits don't come (maybe our 2 defections to mizzou?) or players leave early (long list) it has to have some negative effect somewhere.  You don't see Franks kind of  negative reinforcement in other top tier coaches.  If a player fucks up they usually stay in.  You look at Duke/SJU game Sunday coach K never did that when basic fundamentals on the defensive end were ignored.  SJU was able to attack the rim at will, failure at all levels to stop penetration.  K never took out his best players for long periods of time to punish them.  When SJU started to have defensive breakdowns allowing Duke to come back to 15 Lavin (sp) took players out, instructed them and got them back into the flow of the game.  Look at Michigan State, a team with a collapse just as massive as ours.  Izzou isn't destroying his players for the sake of destruction.  He is teaching them how they mumped up and where they need to be next time. 

You notice how Frank never yelled at Beasley and Clemente and Walker?  Yeah.  If Frank had Nolan Smith, he wouldn't come out if he made mistakes.  If he had Kyle Singler, he wouldn't come out if he made mistakes, just like McGruder, Pullen, and Samuels don't come out for making mistakes. And if you think Steve Lavin is some kind of in-game mastermind, well, OK.  Run with that.

And Izzo kicked an RSCI top 100 junior off the team last week. 

[michigancat]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

I'm not sure about recruiting but I think negative treatment has a negative effect on the program at some level.  Whether it means that recruits don't come (maybe our 2 defections to mizzou?) or players leave early (long list) it has to have some negative effect somewhere.  You don't see Franks kind of  negative reinforcement in other top tier coaches.  If a player effs up they usually stay in.  You look at Duke/SJU game Sunday coach K never did that when basic fundamentals on the defensive end were ignored.  SJU was able to attack the rim at will, failure at all levels to stop penetration.  K never took out his best players for long periods of time to punish them.  When SJU started to have defensive breakdowns allowing Duke to come back to 15 Lavin (sp) took players out, instructed them and got them back into the flow of the game.  Look at Michigan State, a team with a collapse just as massive as ours.  Izzou isn't destroying his players for the sake of destruction.  He is teaching them how they effed up and where they need to be next time. 

personally if i were a recruit and i had a choice between going to a school coached by frank martin, where i would get benched all the time for unknown reasons, or i could go to a school coached by bill self who really doesnt give a crap if i push a bitch into a sink, im gonna go to school where i can push that rough ridin' bitch into the god damn sink...

Yeah, I bet Travis Releford is a big fan of the push the bitch into a sink policy.  So is Quintrell Thomas and Tyrone Appleton, etc.

[KSUTOMMY]

My LBBIQ is making love to this thread right  now!

[The Whale]

LBBIQ Recruiting Analysis -- The targeting of recruits is well above average.  Frank and co. have locked on to a lot of 'cruits early who end up moving up the charts.  The problem has been closing on those recruits, which is something they need to fix.  Really wish Willie Reed was going to be on the team next year though.

[yoga-like_abana]

Remember pre-season how happy we were, oh, those were the days.

we even had kids wanting to transfer here or walk on here that would not have even come her on a scholly in prior years.

[sys]

i pretty much agree with everything michiganc said in this thread.  to more directly address chingon, i think the staff may focus a little too narrowly when picking recruiting targets, and may take a little bit too much time in handing out offers.  oth, i think they know what they're doing, and generally have a very good handle on recruiting landscapes.

i don't think they're lazy, and i do agree that they changed strategies a bit with 2010 and 2011 re. a possible overconfidence problem.

[swish1]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

I'm not sure about recruiting but I think negative treatment has a negative effect on the program at some level.  Whether it means that recruits don't come (maybe our 2 defections to mizzou?) or players leave early (long list) it has to have some negative effect somewhere.  You don't see Franks kind of  negative reinforcement in other top tier coaches.  If a player effs up they usually stay in.  You look at Duke/SJU game Sunday coach K never did that when basic fundamentals on the defensive end were ignored.  SJU was able to attack the rim at will, failure at all levels to stop penetration.  K never took out his best players for long periods of time to punish them.  When SJU started to have defensive breakdowns allowing Duke to come back to 15 Lavin (sp) took players out, instructed them and got them back into the flow of the game.  Look at Michigan State, a team with a collapse just as massive as ours.  Izzou isn't destroying his players for the sake of destruction.  He is teaching them how they effed up and where they need to be next time. 

personally if i were a recruit and i had a choice between going to a school coached by frank martin, where i would get benched all the time for unknown reasons, or i could go to a school coached by bill self who really doesnt give a crap if i push a bitch into a sink, im gonna go to school where i can push that effing bitch into the god damn sink...

Yeah, I bet Travis Releford is a big fan of the push the bitch into a sink policy.  So is Quintrell Thomas and Tyrone Appleton, etc.

maybe if travis releford would push a bitch into a sink he'd be a fan of the policy.

[jtksu]

Seems like the intense media attention to Frank shows that his behavior is not all that common.  Yeah, even quiet dudes like Coach K will rip their player's asses but that is not the norm for them.  Frank does nothing but rip ass, I seldom see him praise his players.  Last year, I was totally cool with Frank's behavior but I've soured a bit on it this season.  Plus, it's much harder to defend his behavior to non KSU fans this year and that's a bit of a pain in the ass.

[kstatefreak42]

Remember that one time when Kansas State University had signed Mike Beasley and Bill Walker...AND got a soft verbal from OJ Mayo?.........I miss you huggie bear. eff off frank... for now..


I cant even imagine what it would of been like if OJ Mayo didnt take those benefits etc...and signed with Bill at KSU.

PG- Clent Stewart
SG-OJ Mayo
SF-Bill Walker
PF- ???????????????
C- Michael Beasley

[Kat Kid]

Remember that one time when Kansas State University had signed Mike Beasley and Bill Walker...AND got a soft verbal from OJ Mayo?.........I miss you huggie bear. eff off frank... for now..


I cant even imagine what it would of been like if OJ Mayo didnt take those benefits etc...and signed with Bill at KSU.

PG- Clent Stewart
SG-OJ Mayo
SF-Bill Walker
PF- ???????????????
C- Michael Beasley

Good chance we could have had 1 average D1 player out there with 3 superstars.  Just need to find a point guard.

[steve dave]

Remember that one time when Kansas State University had signed Mike Beasley and Bill Walker...AND got a soft verbal from OJ Mayo?.........I miss you huggie bear. eff off frank... for now..


I cant even imagine what it would of been like if OJ Mayo didnt take those benefits etc...and signed with Bill at KSU.

PG- Clent Stewart
SG-OJ Mayo
SF-Bill Walker
PF- DAREN KENT (WHO WOULD HE HAVE DUNKED ON IN THE TOURNY IF OJ WAS ON HIS OWN TEAM!?)
C- Michael Beasley