Recruiting Watchers

[CHONGS]

I admit I am not able to keep up the all the recruiting buzz as you do.  I know the names and stars I guess, but not the "word on the street".

Are we really in trouble with our recruiting?  Is Frank recruiting Doc Sadler-level talent?  Mike Anderson-level?

How worried should EMAWs be?

Is the "3-star fit" a valid talking point?   

(I might have follow q's)

tia

[sys]

I admit I am not able to keep up the all the recruiting buzz as you do.  I know the names and stars I guess, but not the "word on the street".

Are we really in trouble with our recruiting?  Is Frank recruiting Doc Sadler-level talent?  Mike Anderson-level?

How worried should EMAWs be?

Is the "3-star fit" a valid talking point?   

(I might have follow q's)

tia

no, no, yes, not worried, yeah, kinda.

[CHONGS]

[CHONGS]

OK re-bump

new question:
Lets assume that our recruiting is something EMAWs should be worried about, then what is the problem with the staff?

Is is because they are lazy (the dax position)?
Or just ineffective?
or both?

[pike]

WRSOAT?

[michigancat]

Well, I think they made a big mistake with the 2008 class.   They completely overestimated their abilities and rough ridin' whiffed on everything.  Got CK, though, which was nice.  But I think this was a real slap in the face for them.

They've definitely shifted their strategy to offering lower level recruits earlier.  It really isn't a bad plan as long as you don't think replacing Fred Brown with Martavious Irving and Ron Anderson with JHR is a good idea - these second tier recruits often end up being pretty good players as juniors and seniors.

aTm is a good model of this.  Under Turgeon, they really don't have a lot of roster upheaval, so they've been led by a a solid core of 4-5 juniors and seniors every year.  None of the recruits have been real head-turners, but they've been able to get decent minutes as freshmen and sophomores which prepared them to lead the team as juniors and seniors.

[Dugout DickStone]

Well, I think they made a big mistake with the 2008 class.   They completely overestimated their abilities and effing whiffed on everything.  Got CK, though, which was nice.  But I think this was a real slap in the face for them.

They've definitely shifted their strategy to offering lower level recruits earlier.  It really isn't a bad plan as long as you don't think replacing Fred Brown with Martavious Irving and Ron Anderson with JHR is a good idea - these second tier recruits often end up being pretty good players as juniors and seniors.

aTm is a good model of this.  Under Turgeon, they really don't have a lot of roster upheaval, so they've been led by a a solid core of 4-5 juniors and seniors every year.  None of the recruits have been real head-turners, but they've been able to get decent minutes as freshmen and sophomores which prepared them to lead the team as juniors and seniors.

Big bowl of SLTH gumbo.

[Stevesie60]

Why would you want to play for a coach who will not play you if you make one mistake and you have a 30% chance of being run off?

[michigancat]

Well, I think they made a big mistake with the 2008 class.   They completely overestimated their abilities and effing whiffed on everything.  Got CK, though, which was nice.  But I think this was a real slap in the face for them.

They've definitely shifted their strategy to offering lower level recruits earlier.  It really isn't a bad plan as long as you don't think replacing Fred Brown with Martavious Irving and Ron Anderson with JHR is a good idea - these second tier recruits often end up being pretty good players as juniors and seniors.

aTm is a good model of this.  Under Turgeon, they really don't have a lot of roster upheaval, so they've been led by a a solid core of 4-5 juniors and seniors every year.  None of the recruits have been real head-turners, but they've been able to get decent minutes as freshmen and sophomores which prepared them to lead the team as juniors and seniors.

Big bowl of SLTH gumbo.

For the most part, yes.  But Frank's second tier recruiting is better than Doc's top tier recruiting.

[michigancat]

Why would you want to play for a coach who will not play you if you make one mistake and you have a 30% chance of being run off?

Frank lets lots of players make lots of mistakes. This is a dumb talking point.

[Stevesie60]

Why would you want to play for a coach who will not play you if you make one mistake and you have a 30% chance of being run off?

Frank lets lots of players make lots of mistakes. This is a dumb talking point.

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

[michigancat]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

[CNS]

The feasible change needed in recruiting is to get one big time guy ever once in a while.  Mix them in with the rest and keep the classes balanced, and we should do well with this.

[Stevesie60]

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

I do not think Frank's "treatment of players" has much of a negative affect on recruiting, because what he does isn't much different from most coaches.  You just don't notice because you don't pay attention to any other teams.

How can you watch other teams? All I can think is, "Man it'd be nice to look like that".

 

[Stupid Fitz]

Why would you want to play for a coach who will not play you if you make one mistake and you have a 30% chance of being run off?

Frank lets lots of players make lots of mistakes. This is a dumb talking point.

Very dumb.  Frank will let you make a mistake if you don't shazbot! off in practice and if he thinks you will ever learn from the mistake down the line.  

[wetwillie]

I think I will reserve judgment until the '12 class is complete.  I don't care how frank gets players here whether it is a transfer(CK, Denis, Omari?, Aspirilla, etc) or traditional high school kids.  If he fails to land any top 100 level talent in the 2012 class or bring in another high level transfer then I will fall off the bandwagon.  We got him his practice facility and his contract extension it isn't unreasonable to expect him to get a big name especially since he put together very average recruiting classes in '10 and '11. 

[Fuktard]

One and doners aren't going to come to KSU....for those thinking we'll land a class of Beasley's every year, you're going to be disappointed.  As I've said before, we aren't going to recruit with KU.  What we can do is sign solid 3 and 4 star players that will likely be solid contributors as juniors and seniors.  That's my hope.

[sonofdaxjones]

As I said on another tread . . . Gipson, Rodriquez (if he signs) and Diaz is baseline recruiting for this staff, anything less than that is a complete failure, particularly in light of the fact that we're paying an assistant $450K a year to supposedly land us a "blue chip" now and again.

[Dugout DickStone]

One and doners aren't going to come to KSU....for those thinking we'll land a class of Beasley's every year, you're going to be disappointed.  As I've said before, we aren't going to recruit with KU.  What we can do is sign solid 3 and 4 star players that will likely be solid contributors as juniors and seniors.  That's my hope.

there is no reason at all that there can't be a one and doner every few years.  Frank has shown the ability to feature those players and get them to the next level.  He certainly doesn't Rush or Cole them and slow their path to the League.

A one and doner doesn't give a crap where he plays.  He wants his stats and he wants to stay healthy.  Does he want to win?  Sure, but it's not at the top of the list.

[doom]

Well, I think they made a big mistake with the 2008 class.   They completely overestimated their abilities and effing whiffed on everything.  Got CK, though, which was nice.  But I think this was a real slap in the face for them.

They've definitely shifted their strategy to offering lower level recruits earlier.  It really isn't a bad plan as long as you don't think replacing Fred Brown with Martavious Irving and Ron Anderson with JHR is a good idea - these second tier recruits often end up being pretty good players as juniors and seniors.

aTm is a good model of this.  Under Turgeon, they really don't have a lot of roster upheaval, so they've been led by a a solid core of 4-5 juniors and seniors every year.  None of the recruits have been real head-turners, but they've been able to get decent minutes as freshmen and sophomores which prepared them to lead the team as juniors and seniors.

Big bowl of SLTH gumbo.

For the most part, yes.  But Frank's second tier recruiting is better than Doc's top tier recruiting.

so why are they currently better?

[michigancat]

One and doners aren't going to come to KSU....for those thinking we'll land a class of Beasley's every year, you're going to be disappointed.  As I've said before, we aren't going to recruit with KU.  What we can do is sign solid 3 and 4 star players that will likely be solid contributors as juniors and seniors.  That's my hope.

there is no reason at all that there can't be a one and doner every few years.  Frank has shown the ability to feature those players and get them to the next level.  He certainly doesn't Rush or Cole them and slow their path to the League.

A one and doner doesn't give a crap where he plays.  He wants his stats and he wants to stay healthy.  Does he want to win?  Sure, but it's not at the top of the list.

I don't even care about the one-and-done kids.  Just land one or two top 100's a year, and I'll be pretty happy.  Beat Oklahoma State or Marquette or aTm for a recruit some time.  People dissatisfied with recruiting don't expect us to be Carolina over night, we just want us to get a little better.

so why are they currently better?

Are they?

[Acceleration Man]

I don't even care about the one-and-done kids.  Just land one or two top 100's a year, and I'll be pretty happy.  Beat Oklahoma State or Marquette or aTm for a recruit some time.  People dissatisfied with recruiting don't expect us to be Carolina over night, we just want us to get a little better.

Amazingly, I completely agree with this. Sounds like reasonable expectations.

[kougar24]

Rusty is in a pretty solid mood right now. I like it. Kind of restores a bit of my hope that's been eroded away over the past few months.

[Cartierfor3]

Why would you want to play for a coach who will not play you if you make one mistake and you have a 30% chance of being run off?

Frank lets lots of players make lots of mistakes. This is a dumb talking point.

I refuse to believe that a recruit sees that. You think a 5* looks at Frank's treatment of players and wants to play here? I'm sure 5 heart players do, but I don't want them anymore.

You give these kids way too much credit. 

[CHONGS]

Is is because they are lazy (the dax position)?
Or just ineffective?
or both?

A new option emerged: They staff bit off more than they could chew in 2008 (the rusty theory) and struck out.

was this caused by being lazy and complacent?