this team is awful

[FP TC etc.]

Wow, on page three this thread takes a turn for the great.  Excellent points by both SYS and rusty/mich cat. 

Was also thinking about how last season we were 11-5 in conference and somehow this season it seems as though 11-5 would be some kind of embarrassment.  Like sys pointed out we look like garbage on offense, but KSU is already better defensively than last year and the offense should improve over time. 

One other thing I wanted to mention is this school of thought going around that this is some sort of "last chance" to be good.  When the reality is that KSU bball is on its best footing in 20 years.  There will be dips in performance on some years and there will be peaks as well.  I see us plateauing as a fringe top 25 & 6/7 NCAA seed type program, but with up years where we are a 2/3 seed or so and down years where we may miss the dance. 

Yikes. That's a pretty shitty plateau.

[Trim]

9-1 is just fine.  Not winning with style is fine.  I'm a little apprehensive about the seeming turmoil and not knowing who's available to play every game.  Kind of wish we had a little more direction by now.  Maybe it's been this way every year and I don't remember because it all works itself out by the end.  

[Stevesie60]

Thought this was a decent read regarding our woes.

http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/2747

[nicname]

9-1 is just fine.  Not winning with style is fine.  I'm a little apprehensive about the seeming turmoil and not knowing who's available to play every game.  Kind of wish we had a little more direction by now.  Maybe it's been this way every year and I don't remember because it all works itself out by the end.  

I agree with this. 

[nicname]

Wow, on page three this thread takes a turn for the great.  Excellent points by both SYS and rusty/mich cat. 

Was also thinking about how last season we were 11-5 in conference and somehow this season it seems as though 11-5 would be some kind of embarrassment.  Like sys pointed out we look like garbage on offense, but KSU is already better defensively than last year and the offense should improve over time. 

One other thing I wanted to mention is this school of thought going around that this is some sort of "last chance" to be good.  When the reality is that KSU bball is on its best footing in 20 years.  There will be dips in performance on some years and there will be peaks as well.  I see us plateauing as a fringe top 25 & 6/7 NCAA seed type program, but with up years where we are a 2/3 seed or so and down years where we may miss the dance. 

Yikes. That's a pretty shitty plateau.

so you are saying that you wouldn't take 2007-08 through 2010-11 over and over and over again? 

[sys]

Maybe it's been this way every year and I don't remember because it all works itself out by the end.  

the beasley year was worse, at least in terms of on the court turmoil.  they were pretty shitty against everyone through the end of december (cal, oregon, the neutral games, xavier), then they had a week off and came out defending like a completely different team.  went on a expectation-raising streak to open conference play before reverting to their mean.

neither of the clemente years were that dramatic, either in shittyness early or in rapid improvement.

[catzacker]

Yeah people wanting us to 1) be substantially better than last year 2) throwing up lots of fast break dunk shots and 3 pointers or "impress" 3) win the Big 12

A) are idiots who did not really understand last year's team or our current squad

B) seem to have completely melted down due to things that have nothing to do with the actual team but with a whole host of peripheral issues

High comedy that it is this crowd calling out players as pussies.

winning the big 12, this year, with this team, is not an absurd expectation. 

[Trim]

Maybe it's been this way every year and I don't remember because it all works itself out by the end.  

the beasley year was worse, at least in terms of on the court turmoil.  

I'm talking about off the court or not getting onto the court turmoil.  On court turmoil's nothing for the Q@s.

[catzacker]

Maybe it's been this way every year and I don't remember because it all works itself out by the end.  

the beasley year was worse, at least in terms of on the court turmoil.  they were pretty cacty against everyone through the end of december (cal, oregon, the neutral games, xavier), then they had a week off and came out defending like a completely different team.  went on a expectation-raising streak to open conference play before reverting to their mean.

neither of the clemente years were that dramatic, either in cactyness early or in rapid improvement.

Beasley year:  awful early, great run in conference 7-1, sputter towards the end 3-5, USC.

Clem's first year:  awful early, f'ing iowa, like 0-4 to start conference, then 6-0, denis slaps t-magic, sputter at the end, suck on it Jank.

Last year:  decent early, but worried about the run of games we have coming up, then fort hays state, then fantastic basketball - suck it dayton, unlv, alabama, texas, energy get's frank'd, good conference play, stumble at the end, then EMAWastic basketball for like 3 weeks.  

this year:  I'll be nice and say underwhelming early......not sure what the next week will hold.  

we've never had this much "suspension" or "personal issues" in any year.  sutton came late but that wasn't turmoil, Colon was gone for the a while last year, denis slapped t-magic his first year, frank knocks out energy...that's pretty much it, iirc.  christ, this year it's been Sutton leaving, curtis not playing, jamar not playing, now wally gone-ish and frank's oversigned.  

updated for frank punching energy last year.

[Pett]

I love each and every one of them. But I hate that they're taking the "depressed" route through all of this.

[nicname]

Maybe it's been this way every year and I don't remember because it all works itself out by the end.  

the beasley year was worse, at least in terms of on the court turmoil.  they were pretty shitty against everyone through the end of december (cal, oregon, the neutral games, xavier), then they had a week off and came out defending like a completely different team.  went on a expectation-raising streak to open conference play before reverting to their mean.

neither of the clemente years were that dramatic, either in shittyness early or in rapid improvement.

The 0-4 B12 start followed by reeling off 7 (i think) straight was pretty dramatic.  But, no there was not really too much turmoil unless you count Frank verbally assaulting Jake on a nightly basis.

[Acceleration Man]

This team is very frustrating to watch right now, and the reason for it is really simple. We have a ton of potential, but very mediocre performance. Entering the season, I had major doubts that our ranking was deserved, and as it stands right now, there's no way we're deserving of being #5 (maybe 15-20, and not so much because of good performance, but good depth). But here's the good news/bad news all in one: we could be the #5 team if we played hard and smart for 40 minutes.

Watching this team consistently underperform (not to expectations, but to potential) is what grates on me. And I'm not talking about 3-pt shooting percentages or turnovers while pressing the court. I'm talking about laziness on defense, careless unforced turnovers across the board, regular misses by our bigs at point blank range, and wildly inconsistent performance by almost everyone on the roster. Martin has basically said the same thing this whole season (so when you're calling us idiots for being frustrated with this team, you're calling Martin an idiot too, JFC)

To put it simply, this team would be fun to watch if they had a some JYC and Doberman in them. It's Martin's style, but the team is refusing to play to his expectations. The results are difficult to watch, simply because I know that this team is capable of MUCH better than anything we've seen so far, and if they continue to play this way, it will result in a number of losses that didn't need to happen.

[sys]

there was a lot of martin-sutton drama in all of sutton's years.

[nicname]

@acceleration Man.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of our problems aren't effort related.  If that were the case the defense wouldn't be playing as well as they are.  the biggest problem is not having a legitimate guard to compliment Jake Pullen.  This is especially noticeable when Jake is forced to run the point.  Without a complimentary guard Jake is basically AJ Abrahms offensively, but he is a much better defender than Abrahms.  Because of this we are not loose and free while on offense, we are not having fun while on offense.

We are also missing JYC Dom no doubt.  Watch PW's video and notice what Denis and JYC Dom bring to the table.  Also notice that the majority of Jake's highlights are him hitting open 3's.    

It is also important to remember that Dom didn't always play this way -- about half the time he played like a FP, TC -- but he was our X-factor last year and when he was in JYC mode we were really tough to beat.  

[A-Lishious]

This year wont be that bad no matter what happens. No next year...

No Jake, no Judge, no Kelly.

:baddreamemoticon:

[wetwillie]

Transition basketball is fun to watch. Playing abnormally fast is fun to watch. Both are things this team does not do.

[MakeItRain]

 

The early season meltdowns by tarded fans and idiot media types had become incredibly boring.  How in year four have people not seen by now that Frank creates a lot of this?  Even if this is your first season watching k-state basketball, hasn't there been enough examples to see that the head coach is creating obstacles for the team.  If he's soooo unhappy why not tighten up the rotations?  Its like his substitution patterns in the non-con are done with a magic 8 ball.

[T42YS]

I figured it out. Lack of talent isn't the reason we suck...in fact it's the exact opposite. See this?



It's called "failing upwards." We're so goddamn good that we pass over into the "suck" end of the good-suck spectrum (shaped as a circle). This team has hit the area in the spectrum where everything just comes back around to where they are so rough ridin' good that they can play like an 0-26 team and still end up 9-0 against teams who can't be considered "semi-pro." Our newfound level of talent is so misunderstood that it just fucks up the entire structure of everything we've been conceptually conditioned to understand in the world of NCAABB. Not even the CPI can explain this in empirical terms.

Think about it, it's actually a good thing that this team is only trained to use its mind-bending, wisdom-defying skills in college basketball. Can you imagine if these guys were working on a time machine? We'd be bbs'ing in a medieval hut while a bunch of Babylonians stormed the castle with laser guns, bros.






^goEMAW'ers trying to comprehend the cessation of the good-suck spectrum to the KSU Overabundance of Talent Loop Feedback Phenomenon (KSUOOTLFP), hence all of the meltdowns the past few days

[michigancat]

Yeah people wanting us to 1) be substantially better than last year 2) throwing up lots of fast break dunk shots and 3 pointers or "impress" 3) win the Big 12

A) are idiots who did not really understand last year's team or our current squad

B) seem to have completely melted down due to things that have nothing to do with the actual team but with a whole host of peripheral issues

High comedy that it is this crowd calling out players as pussies.

winning the big 12, this year, with this team, is not an absurd expectation. 

Expecting to compete for the B12 is not absurd, but expecting to win it is pretty goddam absurd.  Even though everyone but Doc picked us first.  And even if you think KSU has the most talented team in the league, (which is also a bit absurd) you are smart enough to realize Baylor and KU have talent that is ridiculously close - close enough that none of the three should be expected to just run away from the pack.

[catzacker]

Yeah people wanting us to 1) be substantially better than last year 2) throwing up lots of fast break dunk shots and 3 pointers or "impress" 3) win the Big 12

A) are idiots who did not really understand last year's team or our current squad

B) seem to have completely melted down due to things that have nothing to do with the actual team but with a whole host of peripheral issues

High comedy that it is this crowd calling out players as pussies.

winning the big 12, this year, with this team, is not an absurd expectation. 

Expecting to compete for the B12 is not absurd, but expecting to win it is pretty goddam absurd.  Even though everyone but Doc picked us first.  And even if you think KSU has the most talented team in the league, (which is also a bit absurd) you are smart enough to realize Baylor and KU have talent that is ridiculously close - close enough that none of the three should be expected to just run away from the pack.

I probably should have said compete, rather than "win".  I agree with you.

[michigancat]

Yeah people wanting us to 1) be substantially better than last year 2) throwing up lots of fast break dunk shots and 3 pointers or "impress" 3) win the Big 12

A) are idiots who did not really understand last year's team or our current squad

B) seem to have completely melted down due to things that have nothing to do with the actual team but with a whole host of peripheral issues

High comedy that it is this crowd calling out players as pussies.

winning the big 12, this year, with this team, is not an absurd expectation. 

Expecting to compete for the B12 is not absurd, but expecting to win it is pretty goddam absurd.  Even though everyone but Doc picked us first.  And even if you think KSU has the most talented team in the league, (which is also a bit absurd) you are smart enough to realize Baylor and KU have talent that is ridiculously close - close enough that none of the three should be expected to just run away from the pack.

I probably should have said compete, rather than "win".  I agree with you.

So why the meltdown? 

[catzacker]

Yeah people wanting us to 1) be substantially better than last year 2) throwing up lots of fast break dunk shots and 3 pointers or "impress" 3) win the Big 12

A) are idiots who did not really understand last year's team or our current squad

B) seem to have completely melted down due to things that have nothing to do with the actual team but with a whole host of peripheral issues

High comedy that it is this crowd calling out players as pussies.

winning the big 12, this year, with this team, is not an absurd expectation.  

Expecting to compete for the B12 is not absurd, but expecting to win it is pretty goddam absurd.  Even though everyone but Doc picked us first.  And even if you think KSU has the most talented team in the league, (which is also a bit absurd) you are smart enough to realize Baylor and KU have talent that is ridiculously close - close enough that none of the three should be expected to just run away from the pack.

I probably should have said compete, rather than "win".  I agree with you.

So why the meltdown?  

based on how they are playing, I don't see them truly competing for the big 12 at all. unless you count finishing t-2 with baylor/mu, 3-4 games behind ku.  i'm not saying turn out the lights, they definitely have time to get better.  but I would have expected (maybe hoped is a better word) that with what was coming back, we'd be at a different place than we are right now. maybe the same record, but a different place.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah people wanting us to 1) be substantially better than last year 2) throwing up lots of fast break dunk shots and 3 pointers or "impress" 3) win the Big 12

A) are idiots who did not really understand last year's team or our current squad

B) seem to have completely melted down due to things that have nothing to do with the actual team but with a whole host of peripheral issues

High comedy that it is this crowd calling out players as pussies.

winning the big 12, this year, with this team, is not an absurd expectation. 

Expecting to compete for the B12 is not absurd, but expecting to win it is pretty goddam absurd.  Even though everyone but Doc picked us first.  And even if you think KSU has the most talented team in the league, (which is also a bit absurd) you are smart enough to realize Baylor and KU have talent that is ridiculously close - close enough that none of the three should be expected to just run away from the pack.

I probably should have said compete, rather than "win".  I agree with you.

So why the meltdown? 

based on how they are playing, I don't see them truly competing for the big 12 at all. unless you count finishing t-2 with baylor/mu, 3-4 games behind ku.

KU has looked good, but not 3-4 games better than K-State and Baylor. Texas and Mizzou look pretty good as well. We could finish anywhere from 1-5.

[pissclams]

baylor's schedule has been garbage this year, i don't understand how anyone could have them listed at the top of the big 12 right now.

ku and mu have both played shitty at different points this year.  the b12 has a lot of potential but will be average on more nights than not.

[CNS]

  How in year four have people not seen by now that Frank creates a lot of this? ... hasn't there been enough examples to see that the head coach is creating obstacles for the team.