The Royals

[mocat]

also i have dished out plenty of Ned criticism in the past for actions that are stupid. but you guys seriously get on him for every single loss, which makes me question your ability to think coherently after a loss.

[Cartierfor3]

i'm not saying he can't get better, but i'm also saying you guys are ridiculous for wanting him fired for "going with his gut" and whatnot. aren't you "going with your gut" when you question his decisions after the fact? 100% of the world thought we had it locked up last night with Herrera/Davis/Holland. Herrera and Davis didn't have it last night, so you blame Ned? gmafb. i'm not even being a dick. you guys look ridiculous.

I called for him to leave Herrera in in the moment, not after the fact, for the record.

So no is the answer. Other than mocking Ned haters, no, Steve Dave has no reason of substance why Ned Yost should return in 2015.

he will have posted two winning seasons in a row for the KC royals. which nobody has done for as long as I've followed baseball. he has the same KC royals in a legitimate playoff race which nobody has done either. I mean, the arguments are much more powerful than your repetitive butthurt after every loss because he either made or didn't make some move. the fact that mocking you is fun is just a bonus.

That's fine, and that's a legit point. It is great to be this close to the playoffs, but to me, that doesn't validate poor managerial decisions, the revolving hitting coach position, and the old school baseball dogma. Its not like I'm alone in this belief, he is viewed as a tactical buffoon by many in baseball. I mean, he fired the hitting coach to hit more homeruns, and we've hit significantly less in the 2 years since. I wouldn't fire him now, but I'd rather not bring him back in 2015. The Seitzer thing, if we miss the playoffs, is a fireable offense.

I'll move on from the Ned thing though and be Royal.   

[8manpick]

i mean we have exactly 1 more loss on the season than Detroit. just 1.

our manager is not holding us back from being 100-50 right now.

With WAY less talent

[mocat]

i believe whole-heartedly the #1 thing holding us back this year is William R. Butler.

which is very sad considering what he has done every other year he has ever played baseball.

[Cartierfor3]

i believe whole-heartedly the #1 thing holding us back this year is William R. Butler.

which is very sad considering what he has done every other year he has ever played baseball.

Agreed. The weeks where he hit we were on fire.

[kso_FAN]

I'm in agreement with mocat (on both Ned and Butler).

When Ned does dumb things, I have gotten on him, but many of his dumb things are pretty subjective when you look back.

And mocat is also correct that when Butler has played well, this team has been fantastic. When Butler is bad (and he's been beyond terrible since late August) this team is probably around a .500 team.

And on the 2008 deal...

Yes the Brewers made a bold move and it worked out. The Brewers were in the midst of a tremendous skid (much worse than we've seen this September) winning only 3 of their previous 14 games when the move was made while dropping 3 games in the division standings (they were never closer than 3 games to the Cubs after August 1st anyway) and falling 2 games behind the Mets in the wildcard.

Sveum then continued the skid and lost 4 of his first 5 as manager before the Brewers won 6 of their last 7 to win the wildcard. So Sveum went 7-5 in his 12 games before the Brewers got beat by the Phillies 3-1 in the playoffs. It didn't hurt that the Brewers' closest competition for the wildcard (the Mets) finished by losing 6 of their final 9 games.

[mocat]

this is non-biased statting:

look at what Billy does:

In wins (313 plate appearances) .306/.364/.439, .803 OPS, 42 runs scored, 85 hits, 19 doubles, 6 HR, 25 walks, 45 RBI
In losses (253 plate appearances) .216/.261/.292, .553 OPS, 11 runs scored, 51 hits, 9 doubles, 3 HR, 14 walks, 14 RBI

i mean it is so obvious to me, right there in black and white. and so infuriating. and so sad. like, incredibly sad.

[AppleJack]

The biggest thing holding us back is plate discipline / pitch recognition. I am amazed how often these guys swing at 3rd strikes that are outside of the zone. It's infuriating. And they have done nothing about it.

[kso_FAN]

this is non-biased statting:

look at what Billy does:

In wins (313 plate appearances) .306/.364/.439, .803 OPS, 42 runs scored, 85 hits, 19 doubles, 6 HR, 25 walks, 45 RBI
In losses (253 plate appearances) .216/.261/.292, .553 OPS, 11 runs scored, 51 hits, 9 doubles, 3 HR, 14 walks, 14 RBI

i mean it is so obvious to me, right there in black and white. and so infuriating. and so sad. like, incredibly sad.

And I think Ned has tried to give Billy plenty of opportunities to get it turned around in September. Billy usually responds by hitting it to the shortstop on 1 pitch with RISP. :(

[mocat]

look at that OPS disparity. 

250 points higher in wins. two. hundred. fifty.

[Cartierfor3]

Billy has 1 hit in his last 8 games. They said on the radio that's the only time in his career that has happened.

[mocat]

let me put it this way. if Billy was hitting his career average, the royals would have scored conservatively at least 40 more runs on the season. that is an extra 1 run every 4 games. certainly enough for us to be in 1st place right now. we did not need a great season from Butler. we needed an average season from him. what we got was the worst season of his career

[AppleJack]

97% chance he in an Oakland A's uniform next season.

[Cartierfor3]

97% chance he in an Oakland A's uniform next season.

I don't think so

[mocat]

97% chance he in an Oakland A's uniform next season.

too many Billy B's in one town






















 

[AppleJack]

omg 

[Asteriskhead]

lol at KC baseball fans. the closest we've been to the playoffs in your entire lives and you want to fire the coach because he either shakes it up too much or not enough depending on what he did in the most recent loss. we are adorable.

I want him fired because he's an unconfident loser who can't take criticism.

[ksupamplemousse]

Ned has plenty of managerial quirks that are not unique to him. It's crap that every manager does, and it drives fans crazy. Ned has two things working against him though. 1) He almost never pinch hits, but almost always pinch runs. The stats say that this is rough ridin' stupid, and it is. 2) He manages the hackingest bunch of mother fuckers to ever roam the planet. It's gotten worse since he's been here. I know that he's not the hitting coach, and that he is not solely responsible, but he could provide enough incentive (demotion in the batting order, sitting players, recommendation to send players down to the minors) to keep us from being historically bad in this department. He just doesn't seem to think it's all that important.

[kso_FAN]

I think the swing away philosophy is just organizational. It has to be.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think the swing away philosophy is just organizational. It has to be.

How do you fix that? Replace all the managers?

[ksupamplemousse]

I think the swing away philosophy is just organizational. It has to be.

It is, but somehow it's gotten worse since he's been manager, and in a sport where the law of averages is constantly trying to pull you back to the mean, that's a particularly astounding and depressing accomplishment.

[mocat]

they must really be happy with the #5 best batting average in MLB, while completely ignoring every single other meaningful batting stat

[Cartierfor3]

Team stats

2012: .716 OPS
2014: .685 OPS

2012: 404 BB
2014: 353 BB (still a week and a half left)

Maybe the person responsible for firing the hitting coach after 2012 should be held accountable. Also, we need better players.

[Cartierfor3]

But for real though, its an organizational philosophy. We don't draft, sign, or trade for players who are patient hitters. We look for upside and athleticism, speed, and tools. By the time they are on the team, a hitting coach or manager isn't going to change a hitter's approach as much as I'd like them to.

This article explained it very well: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/03/moneyball-and-bubba/related/

[PIPE]

  at all of you who pin your hopes on Billy Butler........