presby game

[KITNfury]

so, like, ksu has played 3 real games...and 2 of them have been complete dogsh*t efforts, specifically in post play (imo).  we blaming it on the competition? 

I think deep down we all know we're overrated by quite a bit, but just want to dismiss it until we absolutely have to.

No we all don't know that.  Many of us don't take Phog talking points to heart and know that there isn't a such thing as under or overrated in CBB and certainly not at this point in the season.  It isn't football it will all work out in the end.

Who said it won't work out in the end? We aren't a top 5 team right now, probably not a top 10 team either. If you can't see that then you're Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Not sure why I'm even having this conversation with you, but anyway.  I  know I have seen more college basketball than you and although its hard to tell at this point at this point who is what I don't have a problem with where anyone is ranked not sure how anyone could.  How many teams have you seen play?  There are literally scores of writers in both polls who disagree with you.  Don't be so insecure, those Phog talking points don't mean anything.

In the millions of basketball games you've watched, how many teams did you see with poor post play and thought "Now that's an outstanding team".

Guard play has been ok, post play has sucked pretty much every game. If Kelly steps up huge, we might be ok, but right now, we are not playing good and don't deserve the accolades we are getting. I don't give a crap what the Phog says, that's what I'm saying.

I bet you thought Colon was a stud last year.

I thought he was probably the worst starter on a Big 12 team. I'm not sure your point. Because I think what we have now have underperformed means I think Colon was good?

[Benja]

so, like, ksu has played 3 real games...and 2 of them have been complete dogsh*t efforts, specifically in post play (imo).  we blaming it on the competition? 

I think deep down we all know we're overrated by quite a bit, but just want to dismiss it until we absolutely have to.

No we all don't know that.  Many of us don't take Phog talking points to heart and know that there isn't a such thing as under or overrated in CBB and certainly not at this point in the season.  It isn't football it will all work out in the end.

Who said it won't work out in the end? We aren't a top 5 team right now, probably not a top 10 team either. If you can't see that then you're Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Not sure why I'm even having this conversation with you, but anyway.

lol. Love it when people start their replies with stuff like this. Textbook cliche condescending bbs'ing, keep up the good work.

On to the matter at hand; yes, you can't really take much of anything from this game except the fact that Frank can now use it to destroy the team and their faces and hopefully have them extremely JYC-focused for a tourney that does present a great opportunity for us.

[michigancat]

Or We can just throw it at the feet of "hey, frank's teams never play well early" and just move on to other more fun topics like Stan's inability to not be destroyed by Frank before the half time or post game interview even starts. 

That sounds like a great idea.  When you add it all up, our guards look a little better than expected and frontcourt looks a little worse than expected.  Like I said.  Who gives a eff.  I mean, last year, you were pretty sure we were off the bubble after Ole Miss beat us.  It's November.  Sheesh. 

so, same expectations for each team year in and year out?

zack, I know you understand what I'm saying.  no need to bring in a lame strawman.

Hey guys...i'm not sure what to make of this optimistic Rusty. Please advise.

you and dave can kiss my ass.

[The Whale]

HBBIQ types, plz advise.  imLBBIQo, our offense against the zone hasn't looked as completely dogshit so far this season as in the past.  Freddy still gets lost at times, but the team doesn't seem to crap it's pants when opponents go zone.

Is this really the case?

[kso_FAN]

HBBIQ types, plz advise.  imLBBIQo, our offense against the zone hasn't looked as completely dogcac so far this season as in the past.  Freddy still gets lost at times, but the team doesn't seem to crap it's pants when opponents go zone.

Is this really the case?

Mostly.  We generated some pretty good shots against the zone in the first and second halves last night.  I really had no problem with the operation of the offense, sometimes you just don't hit open shots, and we didn't.  But I think that was more related to an overall poor effort.  But at this point I do not think its any sort of trend, its a team that played a tough opponent two days ago, looking forward to a great tournament next week, playing a terrible opponent in between.  I would love for us to be bigger than that and put forth great effort no matter what, but I'm not surprised we didn't.  As long as we come out and play vs Gonzaga the way we did vs Tech we will be fine.  Really.

[MakeItRain]

HBBIQ types, plz advise.  imLBBIQo, our offense against the zone hasn't looked as completely dogcac so far this season as in the past.  Freddy still gets lost at times, but the team doesn't seem to crap it's pants when opponents go zone.

Is this really the case?

Mostly.  We generated some pretty good shots against the zone in the first and second halves last night.  I really had no problem with the operation of the offense, sometimes you just don't hit open shots, and we didn't.  But I think that was more related to an overall poor effort.  But at this point I do not think its any sort of trend, its a team that played a tough opponent two days ago, looking forward to a great tournament next week, playing a terrible opponent in between.  I would love for us to be bigger than that and put forth great effort no matter what, but I'm not surprised we didn't.  As long as we come out and play vs Gonzaga the way we did vs Tech we will be fine.  Really.

_fan teach me to be as eloquent and patient with idiots (not you whale) as you.

[pissclams]

i didn't think we looked that bad last night.  jamar tried to shoot us out of the game and we weren't getting o-rebounds in the second half, but overall we didn't play that badly.  jamar will play better over time esp when the post game is working better.

props to the blue hose, they played well and knocked down shots when they needed to.

+1 on rusty's comment about huggs/martin early season teams (something i said weeks ago    )  

and martin is doing what he does in the early season, tries to build depth

[GetVocalwithCurt]

HBBIQ types, plz advise.  imLBBIQo, our offense against the zone hasn't looked as completely dogcac so far this season as in the past.  Freddy still gets lost at times, but the team doesn't seem to crap it's pants when opponents go zone.

Is this really the case?

Mostly.  We generated some pretty good shots against the zone in the first and second halves last night.  I really had no problem with the operation of the offense, sometimes you just don't hit open shots, and we didn't.  But I think that was more related to an overall poor effort.  But at this point I do not think its any sort of trend, its a team that played a tough opponent two days ago, looking forward to a great tournament next week, playing a terrible opponent in between.  I would love for us to be bigger than that and put forth great effort no matter what, but I'm not surprised we didn't.  As long as we come out and play vs Gonzaga the way we did vs Tech we will be fine.  Really.

I am concerned about rotations on defense. there were open shots against va tech that presbyterian knocked down last night. but i guess our d is always going to allow open corner threes

[kso_FAN]

I am concerned about rotations on defense. there were open shots against va tech that presbyterian knocked down last night. but i guess our d is always going to allow open corner threes

Any defense will allow open looks when they play at about 85% of their expected effort. 

Plus to me the biggest factor in last night's poor defense was not pressuring the ball.  Pres was able to be comfortable getting into offense.  Usually we suffocate people once they cross half court and when we do give up and open shot its b/c they penetrate and kick and don't rotate well.  But when we play really hard just as often the offense gets sped up and they throw the ball out of bounds or off target so we can still recover.  Last night we just sort of played off the ball, pressured once in a while, but not consistent, and Pres was able to move the ball comfortably and comfortably shoot an open shot.  Most teams with a pulse are going to make those.  This is another reason we only had 4 points off transition, we didn't get the tipped balls or bad passes we usually get that lead to lay ups b/c we had very little perimeter pressure. 

Remember all those times Denis used to get beat?  Well he was playing as he was taught, pressure the ball all over the floor if you are a guard.  The fact that our guards weren't getting beat last night is actually a better show of their poor effort than if they had.

But like I said, I'm not overly concerned, I expect us to show up and play vs Gonzaga.

[Benja]

It's cute watching our fans slowly learn basketball.

[MakeItRain]

I am concerned about rotations on defense. there were open shots against va tech that presbyterian knocked down last night. but i guess our d is always going to allow open corner threes

Any defense will allow open looks when they play at about 85% of their expected effort. 

Plus to me the biggest factor in last night's poor defense was not pressuring the ball.  Pres was able to be comfortable getting into offense.  Usually we suffocate people once they cross half court and when we do give up and open shot its b/c they penetrate and kick and don't rotate well.  But when we play really hard just as often the offense gets sped up and they throw the ball out of bounds or off target so we can still recover.  Last night we just sort of played off the ball, pressured once in a while, but not consistent, and Pres was able to move the ball comfortably and comfortably shoot an open shot.  Most teams with a pulse are going to make those.  This is another reason we only had 4 points off transition, we didn't get the tipped balls or bad passes we usually get that lead to lay ups b/c we had very little perimeter pressure. 

Remember all those times Denis used to get beat?  Well he was playing as he was taught, pressure the ball all over the floor if you are a guard.  The fact that our guards weren't getting beat last night is actually a better show of their poor effort than if they had.

But like I said, I'm not overly concerned, I expect us to show up and play vs Gonzaga.

Neither the guards or forwards pressured the ball.  Frank was bitching about the post players playing behind, well fronting only works when there is pressure on the passer.  There were instances early in the game where the post players were fronting and the guards were lobbing passes right over the front.

I also saw Freddy allow his man to make hi-low passes because he refused to pressure the ball.

[kso_FAN]

Neither the guards or forwards pressured the ball.  Frank was bitching about the post players playing behind, well fronting only works when there is pressure on the passer.  There were instances early in the game where the post players were fronting and the guards were lobbing passes right over the front.

I also saw Freddy allow his man to make hi-low passes because he refused to pressure the ball.

Good points.  If our guards don't pressure the ball it really doesn't matter how our posts play.  But you are right, we let their one good big catch and post all night.  But it was easy to get the entry b/c our guards played off, and it was easy for him to catch b/c we kept playing behind him. 

[catzacker]

our guard pressure was okay, not great, but not bad.  I mean, we forced how many turnovers - I'd say most were guard orientated?  If anything our guards were getting beat because we pressure so much and then the inevitable help and kick out to the open wing for a 3.  Our posts, regardless of the pressure on the perimeter, did just an absolute horrible job of putting a body on coleman or forcing him off spots. 

[Acceleration Man]

Coming in late on this thread, but to respond to SD's original thought -- yeah, I think that this is a game the guys needed to get their attention, and Frank will be all over them. My predictos for the Zags and Marq/Duk'ems is that we play with a lot of effort, but we will be woefully inept offensively (because Martin has run their legs into tapioca pudding).

[pencat]

i didn't think we looked that bad last night.  jamar tried to shoot us out of the game and we weren't getting o-rebounds in the second half, but overall we didn't play that badly.  jamar will play better over time esp when the post game is working better.

props to the blue hose, they played well and knocked down shots when they needed to.

+1 on rusty's comment about huggs/martin early season teams (something i said weeks ago    )  

and martin is doing what he does in the early season, tries to build depth

wow

Some common sense erupts from a gigantic clusterfrak

 

[kougar24]

Am I the only one who thinks it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to say "I know Curtis is out, but..." when trying to talk about how crappy our post play has been? He's our best post by a large margin; of course his presence is going to help a ton.

[sonofdaxjones]

Didn't see the game, but was K-State in Frank's stupid over play the ball-get beat-everybody else bust ass to stop ball-thus leaving guys wide open "defense"??

[Rage Against the McKee]

Didn't see the game, but was K-State in Frank's stupid over play the ball-get beat-everybody else bust ass to stop ball-thus leaving guys wide open "defense"??

They were alternating between that defense and the follow the post out of the lane so a cutting player has a wide open layup defense.

[Poster formerly known as jthutch]

OT: I think I just thought of a new tactic that Frank can use if there is another lack luster effort on the Cats part.  He should just leave.  Walk off the court go to the locker room with like 7 minutes left in the game.  I can hear him say it now "hey those kids gave up on me and our fans so I quit on them tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day and we will see if they want to be ball players."

[Stevesie60]

OT: I think I just thought of a new tactic that Frank can use if there is another lack luster effort on the Cats part.  He should just leave.  Walk off the court go to the locker room with like 7 minutes left in the game.  I can hear him say it now "hey those kids gave up on me and our fans so I quit on them tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day and we will see if they want to be ball players."

Are you Frank Martin? Because this is literally what he would do. I almost guarantee that this happens in the non-con this year or next.

[Dugout DickStone]

"I told the guys after the game I hope they have a good social life," Martin said. "Because I'm getting ready to ruin it."

Ladies and Emaws, your 2010-11 version of "buy in or quit"

[AlwaysEMAW]

OT: I think I just thought of a new tactic that Frank can use if there is another lack luster effort on the Cats part.  He should just leave.  Walk off the court go to the locker room with like 7 minutes left in the game.  I can hear him say it now "hey those kids gave up on me and our fans so I quit on them tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day and we will see if they want to be ball players."

Are you Frank Martin? Because this is literally what he would do. I almost guarantee that this happens in the non-con this year or next.

Kinda seemed like he gave up on even yelling real loud in their faces last night.

[Stevesie60]

OT: I think I just thought of a new tactic that Frank can use if there is another lack luster effort on the Cats part.  He should just leave.  Walk off the court go to the locker room with like 7 minutes left in the game.  I can hear him say it now "hey those kids gave up on me and our fans so I quit on them tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day and we will see if they want to be ball players."

Are you Frank Martin? Because this is literally what he would do. I almost guarantee that this happens in the non-con this year or next.

Kinda seemed like he gave up on even yelling real loud in their faces last night.

This belongs in the "Phogtastic" thread, or whatever it's called, but he was obviously looking for the leader to step up.

[Clevey 2 Times]

I'm on board with this being the perfect outcome 3 days before taking on a reeling Gonzaga team. Would hate to be a part of the team right now though, those stairs are going to be worn down

Why is Gonzaga reeling? Their only loss to SDSU, or am I missing something?

[yosh]

K-State quatz: handling out moral victories to shitty teams since 2006