Everyone here is so much smarter than I am, so, please, answer this question...

[PoetWarrior]

about our linebackers.

Why don't any of our linebacker bodies, play linebacker?

Felder - Linebacker who added weight and now plays semi-effectively as a defensive end.

Berard - Linebacker who played defensive end at 220 or less pounds last year, does not see field this year.

Tigner - Linebacker who has never seen the field even though he possesses the best body and athleticism of any of our potential linebackers, has rotated between safety and linebacker.

Bumpas - Linebacker who has been converted to defensive end and will play there, undersized, for the remainder of his career.

It's good that Childs moved and Walker will be decent when he adds experience and some weight and Slaughter has more potential than Hrebec, but they're both little people who are not athletic.

Are you better off playing mannequins at defensive end or midgets at linebacker?

Does our system require short, slow, unathletic linebackers and light, small defensive ends?

You tell me, because I flat out don't know.

One more question: Is Arthur Brown going to gain 5 pounds and play defensive end next season?

[kso_FAN]

Could be an attempt to get more athletes on the field.  And yes, we will often be undersized at certain spots.

It also could be that these guys handled LB responsibilities (keys, reads, fits, etc.) worse than the guys we currently have out there. 

[PoetWarrior]

Seems as those there is a point of ineptitude that is reached which forces a choice.

The choice often is between athleticism and intelligence and the Kansas State coaches never seem to choose athleticism.

PoetWarrior is directly opposed to this philosophy on a football field, but PoetWarrior is simply a commoner.

[PoetWarrior]

Another obvious key is that our defensive ends play defensive tackle.

But it cannot simply be that we are undersized throughout.

Recruiting size is not difficult. At all.

[kso_FAN]

Another obvious key is that our defensive ends play defensive tackle.

But it cannot simply be that we are undersized throughout.

Recruiting size is not difficult. At all.

Actually, recruiting quality size, especially DTs, is very difficult in college football. 

And I get your athleticism over intelligence argument, but unless you are recruiting freaks like USC or Texas, you've got to have a good mix.  Even those schools have to have mostly sound players.  Athletic players who constantly get out of position on the football field will be taken advantage of every time. 

K-State coaches don't want to get fired.  They are going to play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win.  Period.  Now, those decisions probably at times are wrong, but almost every decision made by college coaches (including Snyder) is to try to win football games.

[kso_FAN]

I mean just think about it.  How in the heck did Wichita East not win a state title when they had the Brown brothers?  They didn't even come close and they had a bunch of other nice athletes on their teams.  But their teams were extremely undisciplined and they didn't have sound schemes.  Even at the high school level, this will get you beat.

[_33]

They have good motors, maybe?  I think our coaching staff values motors quite a bit.  All of our recruits are described as having very good motors despite their lack of size/speed/athleticism/intelligence/etc.

[jtksu]

An entire thread about PW's desire to have "better bodies" on the field?  Probably better put some pics up boyz.

[HeinBallz]

Don't forget about that linebacker that insisted on playing WR until he took his ball and went home. 

I'm not sure on his name... he never made an impact...  Mike something?   Mike Black?   

[Panjandrum]

Another obvious key is that our defensive ends play defensive tackle.

But it cannot simply be that we are undersized throughout.

Recruiting size is not difficult. At all.

Actually, recruiting quality size, especially DTs, is very difficult in college football. 

And I get your athleticism over intelligence argument, but unless you are recruiting freaks like USC or Texas, you've got to have a good mix.  Even those schools have to have mostly sound players.  Athletic players who constantly get out of position on the football field will be taken advantage of every time. 

K-State coaches don't want to get fired.  They are going to play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win.  Period.  Now, those decisions probably at times are wrong, but almost every decision made by college coaches (including Snyder) is to try to win football games.

Case in point: Marvin Simmons

Simmons was an exceptional athlete for his size.  However, he may have been the dumbest person I've ever encountered in my entire life.  His absence from the field was a direct correlation to him not understanding what he needed to do when he got out there.

[kso_FAN]

Another obvious key is that our defensive ends play defensive tackle.

But it cannot simply be that we are undersized throughout.

Recruiting size is not difficult. At all.

Actually, recruiting quality size, especially DTs, is very difficult in college football. 

And I get your athleticism over intelligence argument, but unless you are recruiting freaks like USC or Texas, you've got to have a good mix.  Even those schools have to have mostly sound players.  Athletic players who constantly get out of position on the football field will be taken advantage of every time. 

K-State coaches don't want to get fired.  They are going to play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win.  Period.  Now, those decisions probably at times are wrong, but almost every decision made by college coaches (including Snyder) is to try to win football games.

Case in point: Marvin Simmons

Simmons was an exceptional athlete for his size.  However, he may have been the dumbest person I've ever encountered in my entire life.  His absence from the field was a direct correlation to him not understanding what he needed to do when he got out there.

Yeah, another good example.

And in case someone interprets this wrong; by no means am I saying we need to just play "coach 'em up" players.  You've got to have athletes to win in the Big 12.  But you've also got to be sound and have a little discipline.  Recruit the best athletes/players you can get, but you've also got to get guys that can be coached and fit into your system as well. 

[bakerman]

You can be the biggest, fastest, strongest guy to get to a hole, but it does absolutely non good if it's the wrong hole. Not saying I think what we have out there is good, but maybe in practices(something we don't see) those guys are making terrible reads.

[HeinBallz]

You can be the biggest, fastest, strongest guy to get to a hole, but it does absolutely non good if it's the wrong hole. Not saying I think what we have out there is good, but maybe in practices(something we don't see) those guys are making terrible reads.

are we still talking about football? 

[bakerman]

You can be the biggest, fastest, strongest guy to get to a hole, but it does absolutely non good if it's the wrong hole. Not saying I think what we have out there is good, but maybe in practices(something we don't see) those guys are making terrible reads.

are we still talking about football? 

only slightly

[PoetWarrior]

Another obvious key is that our defensive ends play defensive tackle.

But it cannot simply be that we are undersized throughout.

Recruiting size is not difficult. At all.

Actually, recruiting quality size, especially DTs, is very difficult in college football. 

And I get your athleticism over intelligence argument, but unless you are recruiting freaks like USC or Texas, you've got to have a good mix.  Even those schools have to have mostly sound players.  Athletic players who constantly get out of position on the football field will be taken advantage of every time. 

K-State coaches don't want to get fired.  They are going to play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win.  Period.  Now, those decisions probably at times are wrong, but almost every decision made by college coaches (including Snyder) is to try to win football games.

I'm not so sure recruiting size for the DL is difficult. I'll go find some guys, they won't be super talented, but they'll be big and adequate. Is it possible big and adequate is better than small and adequate? We always go small/slow and smart. Maybe try big and dumb? Both are flawed, maybe one works better than another. It probably depends on the individual.


The biggest problem in sports is that coaches think that because we've been playing a game for 100 years that every philosophy or attitude has been figured out and there is no reason to try to do things differently. So, Joe Bob Clements and Chris Cosh may be 100% sure that they are playing the right player at a certain position, but I'm 99% sure that they haven't tried enough options. Does the linebacker position need to exist? Why do basketball teams need a small person that can dribble the ball and pass well to be on the court? Maybe try 5 guys who can jump and are all over 6'9"?

Kansas State requires innovation because we cannot compete otherwise.

[PoetWarrior]

Case in point: Marvin Simmons

Simmons was an exceptional athlete for his size.  However, he may have been the dumbest person I've ever encountered in my entire life.  His absence from the field was a direct correlation to him not understanding what he needed to do when he got out there.

Simmons was actually pretty good when he was on the field, but when you're kicked off the team, you're no longer on the field.


If I had one point (but this isn't my thread, this is yours) it would be that I acknowledge that all of the players and scenarios that have been described are, possibly, flawed, but coaches should still be testing every available option.

[PoetWarrior]

I even, maybe, not totally sure, believe that coaching is more important than talent, because it is wholly up to the coaches awareness to allow the players ( or  ) to succeed, by playing them, getting them into a position to succeed, individual motivation, etc.

[PoetWarrior]

Does anyone think the average coach is aware and intelligent?

I don't.


My opinion.

[PoetWarrior]

Dear Coach Cosh (or whatever your name is),

Please start Tigner and Berard at linebacker against Central Florida College/University.

We're not going to lose the game anyway. Give it a shot. It will be fun.

Everyone on the team and in the stands will really enjoy it.

[PoetWarrior]

Maybe the offensive coordinator (the old guy), could extend an olive branch in our direction and start Harper at QB.

We haven't tried that yet.

Might be the difference between us winning and losing the national championship game.

[Bill Clarahan]

You really enjoy talking to yourself, you're gonna blend in just fine in the rest home

[Kat Kid]

Poet.  Preach on brother.

[steve dave]

Kansas State requires innovation because we cannot compete otherwise.

I agree wholeheartedly with this

[Pendergast]

PoetWarrior, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[jtksu]

PoetWarrior, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

not a bad 37th post.