Author Topic: CHIEFS  (Read 1461036 times)

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Offline wetwillie

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16650 on: January 22, 2019, 05:47:00 PM »
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16651 on: January 23, 2019, 08:14:30 AM »
so reportedly the chiefs defensive players and some assts were frustrated with sutton's lack of in-game adjustments, and it sounds like this has been brewing for quite some time now.

if you are the local columnist, writing a fire sutton column, maybe do some digging and reveal this through sources when arguing why sutton must go? seems like it would have been a more effective column than (insert misleading stats) and (insert 'facts' that lack context), but that's just me.

sounds like andy made the right call. still unconvinced he'll find a dramatically better replacement, but we will see.

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16652 on: January 23, 2019, 08:16:54 AM »
Rex Ryan an early name being listed.  :crossfingers:

rex did a great job with the defense offense when he was in buffalo!

https://www.theringer.com/2016/12/27/16045662/buffalo-bills-fire-rex-ryan-nfl-428163700e1

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16653 on: January 23, 2019, 09:23:45 AM »
I’m not as concerned as how his teams did defensively as HC as I am how they did when he was DC, which was really good. We’re all aware he flopped as a HC.

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16654 on: January 23, 2019, 09:42:38 AM »
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1088096838979330049

Should've just kept Sutton if this is what they elect to do.

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16655 on: January 23, 2019, 09:46:48 AM »
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1088096838979330049

Should've just kept Sutton if this is what they elect to do.

Per Wikipedia:
Quote
Coaching philosophy
Spagnuolo learned under Philadelphia coach Jim Johnson, and shares the same aggressive, blitz-heavy approach as his mentor. (He did not incorporate this philosophy during his time in New Orleans however). Spagnuolo uses a 4–3 base defense with a heavy emphasis on multiple blitz packages, including corner and safety blitzes. While defensive coordinator of the New York Giants, he often used a smaller defensive line, with three or even four defensive ends to further pressure the quarterback.

This philosophy proved successful, with the Giants leading the NFL in sacks in 2007. In Super Bowl XLII, Spagnuolo's defense sacked Tom Brady five times, which was the most he had been sacked in any game that season.
Kansas City Blue Barbecue fan.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16656 on: January 23, 2019, 10:16:59 AM »

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Kansas City Blue Barbecue fan.

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16658 on: January 23, 2019, 10:33:12 AM »
https://twitter.com/kkwhb/status/1088107847718748160

Quote from: j rake
i can go up and down the list of former coordinators who became head coaches who then got fired and become coordinators, who then failed as coordinators, who then languished around as a position coach before drifting off to obscurity. turns out, the star coordinator who became the sexy head coaching candidate was never even that good of a coordinator! many times, they just rode the wave of short-term success, took credit for achievement they weren't solely responsible for, and then got figured out.

editing my earlier post. sometimes instead of drifting off to obscurity they are given fourth chances by old pals.

welcome to KC, spags!

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16659 on: January 23, 2019, 10:47:53 AM »
Don't want Spagnuolo. Nope. No sir.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16660 on: January 23, 2019, 10:50:01 AM »
All we have to do to win is give Mahomes the ball and stop the run. It can't be that hard. We just need a good offseason.

Offline mocat

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16661 on: January 23, 2019, 10:54:10 AM »
we really should blitz all the time, which is high risk-high reward. over the course of a season, i think this would prove effective. however, in an individual situation where you MUST get a stop, does that work?  :dunno:

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16662 on: January 23, 2019, 11:03:37 AM »
we really should blitz all the time, which is high risk-high reward. over the course of a season, i think this would prove effective. however, in an individual situation where you MUST get a stop, does that work?  :dunno:

Not really. I think that with our offense, being super-aggressive on defense works out, though, because no other offense will be able to go score for score with us. So the odds are in our favor that we just won't find ourselves in many situations where we MUST get a stop. We just can't allow teams to run 7-8 minute drives against us like New England did. We won't win those games.

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16663 on: January 23, 2019, 02:07:04 PM »
we really should blitz all the time, which is high risk-high reward. over the course of a season, i think this would prove effective. however, in an individual situation where you MUST get a stop, does that work?  :dunno:

Not really. I think that with our offense, being super-aggressive on defense works out, though, because no other offense will be able to go score for score with us. So the odds are in our favor that we just won't find ourselves in many situations where we MUST get a stop. We just can't allow teams to run 7-8 minute drives against us like New England did. We won't win those games.

one of the more remarkable things about the 2018 chiefs offense is how consistently good they were despite rarely getting a chance to stay in rhythm. the chiefs scored the most points in the league despite having the fourth fewest number of possessions, largely because the defense could never get off the field. the chiefs defense gave up, on average, 39.57 yards per possession - i.e. roughly four first downs per drive - and these drives lasted 6.7 plays. this inability to get off the field is the worst of any team since the '08 colts. so here you have the best offense the league has ever seen, and they're forced to sit on the sidelines while the defense lets opponents dink-and-dunk their way down the field for an inevitable score. the chiefs offense was definitely aggressive, and they took a good number of shots down field. but there's no doubt that the defense's inability to get off the field can be limiting when it comes to play calling. it's harder to take risks when you know you'll have to wait a long time before taking the field again.

in fairness to the defense, they did force 27 turnovers, which was 8th in the league. and forcing teams to run a ton of plays before reaching the end zone in theory increases the opponent's chances of making a mistake. but i don't think it has to be an either or. you can find a happy medium, or simply dominate your way to turnovers like the bears did (the bears forced 36 turnovers while allowing a league-low 26 yards per drive).

i'm definitely an advocate of an aggressive, kamikaze style of defense. good or bad, whatever happens, make it happen quickly.

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16664 on: January 23, 2019, 02:24:58 PM »
https://twitter.com/kkwhb/status/1088107847718748160

KK doing 1 of his spin jobs. He always talks about how yards don't matter, and then posts these numbers

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16665 on: January 23, 2019, 02:33:55 PM »
 :buh-bye:
I’m not as concerned as how his teams did defensively as HC as I am how they did when he was DC, which was really good. We’re all aware he flopped as a HC.

Yes.  I don't think SS is the best DC out there, but it's not a horrible hire

6 years as a DC. His ave rank on Pts allowed was 18.7 (17,5,31,27,2,30).  His Saints 2012 DC season with Payton suspended was a disaster.  His 5 years as NYG DC ave 16.2.  Not eye popping numbers but he's not a bad DC either

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16666 on: January 23, 2019, 02:38:49 PM »
I think Wade Phillips is a good DC, and I think most in the NFL think he is good or above average. His last 7 years as a DC, his teams ave rank on Pts allowed was 13.1

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16667 on: January 23, 2019, 04:59:02 PM »
j rake please post in here more during the 2019 season. i very much enjoy your posts.

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16668 on: January 23, 2019, 05:14:50 PM »
j rake please post in here more during the 2019 season. i very much enjoy your posts.

this thread is generally one of the better places for chiefs discussion it seems. chiefs planet is overrun by idiots.  :frown:

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16669 on: January 23, 2019, 05:23:52 PM »
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1088130140549378048?s=19

above is just one of countless examples where i wish there was more room for nuance when it comes to sports discussion. i've seen sutton get near unanimous criticism for being a buffoon regarding the chiefs' inability to stop the pats on three straight 3rd-and-10s. but check out the first clip in the video above.

how do you assign blame for that play? it can't be 100% sutton. imo it can't even be 50% sutton. can it even be 25% sutton? you've got two DBs, nelson and fuller, both taking dorsett and leaving edelman wide open across the middle. edelman is brady's go-to option on 3rd down all year long (all career long?), and that was especially true in this game. and in the biggest moment, two chiefs DBs chase after dorsett on the outside and leave edelman wide open across the middle for an easy first down.

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16670 on: January 23, 2019, 09:23:23 PM »
quick story (update: not quick!) ...

so back in 2011, when andy reid was coach of the eagles, his defense was led by first-time coordinator juan castillo. the defense performed so poorly that most expected reid to fire castillo after just one season. but a month after the season ended, castillo still had his job, and reid confirmed at a press conference that he would remain on staff. but would he remain as coordinator?

rumors swirled that reid might demote castillo and hire a new defensive coordinator. reid's top choice?

steve spagnuolo.

but spags never came to the eagles and instead took a coordinator job elsewhere. in a press conference, reid admitted that he offered spags a job, but did not specify if he was offered the coordinator gig. the assumption has always been that he did not.

anyway, reid rolled with castillo as coordinator for a second year and the results were again terrible. the eagles defense allowed 27 points per game. only one defense in the NFC allowed more points.

that defense was the saints.

steve spagnuolo's saints.

the defense set records, just not the good ones. for example, they became the first team in NFL history to allow 7,000 yards in a season. that's an average of 437 yards per game.

only one defense since has come close to matching that level of terrible. it was the 2015 new york giants.

steve spagnuolo's giants.

after getting fired by the saints, spags got ripped anonymously by a former player.

Quote
One Saints player, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said a "resounding" yes when asked if he thought Spagnuolo should be fired after just one season.

"Trust me all the guys were being politically correct this season when answering questions," the player said. "It's bad."

The player added: "To give up what we gave up can't be all talent. Look at where his units (have) been ranked before. I think one top 10?"

The Saints finished last in the NFL in total defense, last in run defense, 31st in pass defense.

"Players have no say in anything," the player said. "It was (a) complete opposite from before where it was a simple D that players had lot of control and say. We couldn't suggest (expletive)...Nothing ever changed. It was his way only.

"Don't even get me started on lack (of) ability to adjust during games. Bad, bad, bad."

spags got back on his feet in 2015, taking the giants DC job. anonymous players again ripped him, and spags responded by saying sarcastically that he "doesn't know anonymous." but soon enough, he had a chance to respond to on-the-record criticism.

like this from eli apple:

Quote
“This year it has become a little more difficult with the defense, and why this year you’ve seen more miscommunication problems out there."

and this from landon collins:

Quote
“We kind of have been all over the place, trying stuff instead of just being us."

the most common criticism of spagnuolo's defenses - beyond it being frequently terrible - was that his scheme was too complicated and that he didn't make proper in-game adjustments.

that's the exact same criticism anonymous players just levied against bob sutton.

Offline mocat

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16671 on: January 23, 2019, 09:27:56 PM »
steveth spagnuolittrell :frown:

Offline j rake

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16672 on: January 23, 2019, 09:30:28 PM »

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16673 on: January 23, 2019, 10:33:13 PM »
J Rake,

You are absolutely correct. Fuller and Nelson both taking the same WR was really bad.

On that 3rd & 10 and the next 3rd & 10....why in the blue hell do we have 2 safeties playing that deep?  Brady threw 3 passes 20+ yds all game.   Have the 2 safeties way closer, possibly doing a double team on Edelman or Gronk

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 10:42:34 PM by Powercat Posse »

Offline 'taterblast

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Re: CHIEFS
« Reply #16674 on: January 24, 2019, 07:01:06 AM »
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1088130140549378048?s=19

above is just one of countless examples where i wish there was more room for nuance when it comes to sports discussion. i've seen sutton get near unanimous criticism for being a buffoon regarding the chiefs' inability to stop the pats on three straight 3rd-and-10s. but check out the first clip in the video above.

how do you assign blame for that play? it can't be 100% sutton. imo it can't even be 50% sutton. can it even be 25% sutton? you've got two DBs, nelson and fuller, both taking dorsett and leaving edelman wide open across the middle. edelman is brady's go-to option on 3rd down all year long (all career long?), and that was especially true in this game. and in the biggest moment, two chiefs DBs chase after dorsett on the outside and leave edelman wide open across the middle for an easy first down.

coach your players better or call a better play. either way GTFO BOB