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Offline j rake

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Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« on: July 08, 2010, 01:11:05 PM »
TLDR, but maybe you'll want to.


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We now know one thing for sure about LHC Bill Snyder: The man has a liberal return policy.

Although the football program Snyder bequeathed to Ron Prince in 2006 was not quite the same one that had nearly played for the national title in 1998, or even the same one that won the Big 12 championship in 2003 -- Snyder himself had gone just 9-13 in his final two seasons -- it was a program that still had strong recruiting ties in its home state and still generally owned the state. Snyder beat archrival Kansas in three of his last four tries. The program had some wear on it, but it still had value.

But when Prince returned the program to Snyder in 2009, it was falling apart. There were frayed edges, missing pieces, mustard stains all over it. It was a mess.

Relationships with Kansas high school coaches had dissolved. The program was filled with an outrageous number of junior college transfers. And Kansas had won three in a row, the Jayhawks' longest streak in the series since the 1988-90. But Snyder took it back anyway, and when he returned, he likened the situation to a rocky sea.

"I would hope that I can settle the waters," he said. "The important thing is to be able to smooth those waters and draw the K-State family back into a true family."

The concerns about Snyder upon his return were that, at 69 years old, he might not be socially and technologically savvy enough to compete in an ever-changing recruiting landscape and that, frankly, part of the reason the first Snyder era ended is that the program appeared to be on a decline under his watch. In his typically understated fashion, Snyder noted he had gotten the hang of text messaging, and then promptly took a largely overmatched team with no passing game -- usually a terminal illness in the modern Big 12 -- or a 6-6 record that included a crushing blow to rival Kansas, which freefell to a 5-7 record and ran off its coach.

Even better, Snyder started plucking highly recruited Kansas prep players who had gotten away to other schools. Sophomore Chris Harper, of Wichita left Oregon to play for Snyder.

Another receiver, sophomore Broderick Smith of Garden City, left Minnesota for K-State. And Wichita linebacker Arthur Brown, one of the most highly recruited players in the state's recent memory, left Miami and enrolled at Kansas State this spring. Snyder also signed the Rivals.com No. 4 player in the state of Kansas, running back DeMarcus Robinson of Wichita (the top three players in the state are all headed to Oklahoma).

So while it would be stretching to say the ship is back on course for the BCS, at least the vessel isn't leaking anymore. Snyder proved in one season that any concerns he was too old for this racket were premature.

That all said, what Snyder returns for 2010 is still a significantly flawed team, and it begins, as it often does, at quarterback. Snyder managed to cobble together decent quarterback play from transfer Grant Gregory and senior running back/wildcat quarterback Daniel Thomas (6-2, 228), but Gregory is gone, meaning the top returner is senior Carson Coffman (6-3, 211), who & well, he did not excite the fan base during his time as the starter early last season.

Though his per-game passing numbers were a little better than Gregory's, the Wildcats' offense labored with the immobile Coffman under center, and lost to Louisiana-Lafayette and UCLA, both games that, in retrospect, Kansas State probably would have won if Gregory had been the quarterback.

OFFENSE

QUARTERBACKS

Although spring games are given to preposterous events, few around the country could challenge this stat line: Carson Coffman -- 28-for-51, 440 yards, seven touchdowns (in, by the way, a 79-0 win for his purple squad).

This from a guy who threw for all of 860 yards and two touchdowns in six games last season.

So what in the name of Michael Bishop does this mean? "He was all right," Snyder said. Oh.

The unspoken message from Snyder seemed to be that the senior Coffman (6-3, 211), who called all his own plays in the spring game, was probably going to be the starting quarterback in the fall. But that wasn't a message many K-State followers were eager to believe just yet (it's that whole "860 yards in six games" thing).

No matter what you think, it's difficult not to see the quarterback position as a concern again this season for the Wildcats. Coffman is a careful, rigid pocket passer who struggles on the move and took a lot of sacks last season. As such, he is not a good fit for the offense Snyder has traditionally liked, which employs a lot of option, zone read and quarterback draws.

Fans are eager to see junior Sammuel Lamur (6-4, 221), a junior college transfer who red-shirted last season. He is more athletic than Coffman and thus, more of a natural fit for Snyder, but he was never a productive player at either of the two junior colleges he attended, throwing for a combined 575 yards while completing just 42 percent of his 102 passes and running for 59 total yards as a career backup. As a starter in the spring game, he completed 10-for-16 passes for 57 yards.

The other quarterbacks who played in the spring are freshmen Billy Cosh (6-1, 219) and Ryan Manes (6-4, 194), who attempted a combined 11 passes. K-State also has true freshman Ty Zimmerman (6-1, 202) and sophomore transfer Collin Klein (6-5, 233), who also plays receiver.

An interesting option for Snyder could be sophomore Chris Harper (6-1, 234), who signed with Oregon as a dual-threat quarterback and played the position there for part of the 2008 season before moving to wide receiver and eventually transferring to K-State, where he red-shirted last season. The Wildcats list Harper as a wide receiver, and he didn't play any quarterback during spring ball, but Snyder, never one to divulge his plans anyway, has that in his back pocket if he wants it. The bottom line is, though, that there is not much predictive experience in that group.

A viable option is to use senior running back Daniel Thomas (6-2, 228), who was recruited as a quarterback, as a situational QB. Thomas is a long, powerful runner who has been effective in the Wildcat formation and is just enough of a threat to throw that defenses can't cheat as much as they'd like to. The problem with using him this way is that you don't get to use him at running back, and you couldn't survive for four quarters with such a limited passer. But at the very least he gives Snyder a curveball he can mix in.

No matter who is playing the position, Kansas State is going to have to be a little creative to make it work. And no matter what the Wildcats decide to do, it's unlikely this is going to be much of a passing team. The quarterback's role will be to not lose the game. Winning it will be the job of the defense, special teams and an occasional well-timed play-action pass.

RUNNING BACKS

There were times last season it looked like Daniel Thomas was the dad and opposing defenders were the rug rats, hanging on his legs and trying to take down the giant.

Thomas isn't so much a Ferrari as he is a John Deere -- durable, unstoppable, and loaded with torque. He led the Big 12 with 1,265 rushing yards in a first-team All-Big 12 campaign as a junior transfer last season, when he carried the ball a Big 12-high 247 times for 11 touchdowns and a 5.1-yard average.

This is made all the more remarkable when you know Kansas State's passing game ranked 106th in the nation last season. Thomas wasn't bursting through gaping holes in the middle of five-wide formations. He was gliding off tackle and dragging safeties.

With an entire offseason to learn a position he just picked up last year, Snyder thinks Thomas is a better, more prepared back this season. "I think he learned more about the nuances about the position that he plays," Snyder said, "and learning how to slow down a little bit and finding the creases a little bit better."

This is certainly Kansas State's greatest offensive strength. But if there is a concern, it is that Thomas is the only returning running back with any significant experience.

Senior William Powell (5-9, 205) was the second-best runner in the spring game (11 carries, 88 yards), but he appeared in just six games last season, and was a special teams guy at that.

Tim Flanders (5-9, 211) is a speedy red-shirt freshman who was the No. 9 player in the state of Oklahoma as a senior. John Hubert (5-7, 182) is another red-shirt freshman who was an all-state selection in Texas when he ran for 2,853 yards and 41 touchdowns as a senior. Flanders and Hubert both played sparingly in the spring game, combining for 36 yards on seven carries. DeMarcus Robinson (5-9, 192), a four-star prospect according to Rivals.com, may be the most gifted of the reserves, and could get some time as a true freshman.

In any case, it will definitely not be a running-back-by-committee situation for the Wildcats, although as often as they are likely to be running it, a quick No. 2 back would be a nice complement to Thomas' bullying style.

RECEIVERS

If you can count on one thing with Kansas State's receivers, it is that you know they're hungry.

Neither of the Wildcats' top two wideouts, senior Aubrey Quarles (5-11, 202) or sophomore Broderick Smith (6-2, 206), played last season, and both are itching to get back on the field. "It feels great," Quarles said after the spring game. "Last year I had a rough time trying to get on the field, but now I'm back out there."

While tiny playmaker Brandon Banks is off to the NFL, this was a position at which the Wildcats should be able to withstand some attrition.

Quarles, who made 34 catches in 2008 but redshirted last season, returns as a senior this year, where he figures to start alongside Smith, now eligible after transferring from Minnesota after the 2008 season. He started two games for the Gophers that year, catching five passes for 50 yards and a touchdown. It's been a long wait for Smith, but he thinks it has been a valuable respite.

"I think it was worth it," he said. "I appreciate the coaches having patience with me and for bringing me into this program, letting me get accustomed to this program."

In that wild spring game, Smith had 12 receptions for 167 yards and four touchdowns, while Quarles added nine grabs for 105 yards and a score.

All of which seemed to establish Smith as a go-to receiver for K-State, though he was reluctant to make that proclamation himself. "We have a really good receiving group," he said. "I think that if all of us just keep working hard we could all be the go-to guy. We will just have to see what comes around in the fall."

For now, fans will have to take Smith's word for that, because the rest of the K-State receiving corps is mostly unproven.

Redshirt freshman Tremaine Thompson (5-7, 165) certainly looks like Banks on the field. He's up for starting consideration and had six grabs for 86 yards and a touchdown in the spring game. K-State is also excited about sophomore Chris Harper, a highly recruited Wichita native who sat out last season after transferring from Oregon, where he made a switch from quarterback to wide receiver partway through the 2008 season. Though he had just one catch in the spring game, Harper is expected to contribute this season and may be the most talented receiver on the team.

He and the rest of the receivers give the Wildcats a generally beefy group that could make for a nice fit in K-State's ground-oriented offense. "I keep hearing that we've got a lot of size on us," Quarles said. "And we've got to take advantage of that by being more physical on the blocks and getting more yards after the catch."

OFFENSIVE LINE

The Wildcats return four starters along the offensive line -- seniors Zach Kendall (6-2, 312), Kenny Mayfield (6-4, 338) and Wade Weibert (6-4, 303) and junior Clyde Aufner (6-5, 300) -- which is good. But K-State lost its best lineman, Nick Stringer, who happened to play the unit's most important position, left tackle.

Fortunately, K-State has a replacement presumably ready to go in Zach Hanson, a 6-foot-8, 313-pound red-shirt junior who was Stringer's backup last season.

If Hanson wins the left tackle job, it will give the Wildcats an offensive line on which the average player is 6-5, 315 pounds and in his fourth season in the program. Those tend to be good signs. And considering four of those guys blocked for the Big 12's leading rusher last season, there is some production to go with the promise.

But K-State's offense was entirely one-dimensional last season, and the offensive line bears its share of blame for that. The group allowed 26 sacks in 2009, which ranked 71st in the nation. But when you realize that was on a team that attempted just 298 passes, easily the lowest total in the Big 12, you can see pass protection was a major issue, one that isn't likely to improve with the immobile Carson Coffman under center instead of the speedy Grant Gregory, who was the starter most of last season.


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Offline j rake

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 01:11:30 PM »
DEFENSE

DEFENSIVE LINE

If it hasn't registered yet that there aren't many proven players on the Kansas State roster, you can either familiarize yourself with almost all the other position groups, or you can just take the defensive line as your example.

K-State's leading pass rusher, Jeffrey Fitzgerald, is gone, along with his seven sacks. Nobody else on the team had more than three sacks last year, those three belonging to senior defensive end Antonio Felder (6-2, 244).

The rest of the 20 sacks Kansas State had in 2009 (a total which ranked 10th in the Big 12) came from a combination of 10 other players, six of which aren't on the team anymore, meaning the entirety of K-State's returning defense had 5.0 sacks last season.

The good news, if there is any, is that the K-State staff knew all of this, and recruited accordingly, signing five defensive linemen in the 2010 class, four of which are junior college transfers who will need to contribute right away.

The group's most promising player is junior defensive end Adam Davis (6-1, 249) of Hutchinson (Kansas) Community College, a prospect who chose the Wildcats over Kansas and Missouri.

The other transfers are tackles Javonta Boyd (6-4, 302) and Justin Williams (6-0, 290), both juniors, and sophomore Ray Kibble (6-5, 310), none of which were especially heavily recruited.

The Wildcats will probably need two of them to be regular contributors if they are to absorb the offseason attrition with any success. Keep in mind that even with the players K-State lost, it was in the middle of the Big 12 pack in most defensive categories, so it would be awfully nice for the Wildcats if a couple of the newcomers became stars.

LINEBACKERS

The leader of the group undoubtedly is junior Alex Hrebec (5-11, 251), who had just 32 tackles as a sophomore last season, another example of the overall roster's apparent depletion.

The Wildcats actually have two linebackers -- senior Jarrett Wright (5-11, 224) and junior Brian Hertzog (5-10, 205) -- who weren't on any high school or college roster last season and are likely to start at least one guy who either didn't play at all or had fewer than 30 tackles last year.

Leading candidates for those starting spots are sophomore Jerrell Childs (6-1, 225), a converted running back, senior Kevin Vulture (6-0, 219), senior Josh Berard (6-1, 212) and junior Kadero Terrell (6-1, 237), the most productive of which has been Vulture, who made 29 tackles last year. Berard played in six games last season, making two tackles, one of which was a sack. But Childs is the most intriguing, if for no other reason than his athletic ability.

"He is a very athletic kid," Hrebec said. "He's been doing a nice job for us and has caught on pretty quickly. I'm excited to have him on our side of the ball."

If he can make that transition quickly, he would give K-State a needed boost of athletic ability at the position.

DEFENSIVE BACKS

It is difficult to pin Kansas State's improvement in the secondary on any one person. LHC Bill Snyder deserves some credit, as in 2009 the entire defense suddenly looked ... prepared. But juniors Emmanuel Lamur (6-4, 219) and Tysyn Hartman (6-3, 206) deserve plenty of credit, too.

Neither of the safeties had been a major factor in 2008. Lamur was in junior college and Hartman was learning the position on the fly after switching from quarterback early in the year.

But as full-timers last season, they became two of K-State's most productive defensive players. Lamur led the team with 68 tackles, adding three interceptions, and Hartman led the team with five picks, adding 54 tackles and 11 passes defended, which ranked second on the team to departed cornerback Josh Moore.

Speaking of cornerbacks, the Wildcats need to find one to replace Moore, who was second on the team in tackles and led K-State in pass breakups.

Junior David Garrett (5-7, 175), a starter last year, is a strong candidate, as is sophomore Darious Thomas (5-11, 181), who started a game last year.

Anchoring the cornerback position figures to be senior Stephen Harrison (5-11, 183), a former walk-on who started seven of K-State's final eight games in 2009, breaking up 11 passes, which ranked seventh in the Big 12.

But no matter who the starters are, all three are likely to get plenty of playing time against Big 12 foes who like to spread the field, forcing defenses into a lot of nickel packages.

SPECIAL TEAMS

There is no replacing Brandon Banks, the tiny, dashing, electrifying return man who led the Big 12 with a 28.9 kick return average and returned four kickoffs for touchdowns on what was the nation's No. 6 return unit.

The Wildcats do have someone of Banks' approximate size, though, in sophomore receiver Adam Repass-Orduna (5-4, 161), who returned kicks in the spring game along with senior running back William Powell and sophomore receiver Gage McKinnis (5-9, 185).

Junior Tysyn Hartman was K-State's best punt returner in 2009 with a 13.1 average on eight tries, and enters this season the man to beat for those duties.

KICKERS

If Kansas State plays anything like it did last year -- and all signs say it will -- sophomore kicker Josh Cherry (6-0, 190) could be one of the Wildcats' most important players.

Cherry, who got off to a horrific start in 2009, finished conference play with 11 field goals, which was third in the Big 12 on a team that ranked ninth in scoring offense, and made 12 of his last 15 field goals, which made him 12-for-20 for the year, which made him the most average kicker in the Big 12.

K-State could use better red zone production from its offense, but also from Cherry. The Wildcats ranked 11th in the Big 12 in red zone offense last year, in large part because they went just 8-for-12 on red-zone field goal tries.

PUNTERS

Ryan Doerr (6-3, 188), a former high school All-American, returns after a decent freshman season that saw him rank sixth in the Big 12 with a 41.9-yard average.

Despite being from Katy, Texas, Doerr seemed to have a fine grasp on the importance of the Sunflower Showdown series with Kansas, as he had his best day of the year against the Jayhawks, booting a 53-yarder and pinning KU inside its 20 three times in the same game.

NEWCOMERS

You have to temper your expectations for Kansas State in 2010.

What distant observers might not realize is that LHC Bill Snyder is still trying to plug the holes Ron Prince poked in the side of the ship.

In 2008, the former K-State coach signed 33 players, 19 of which were junior college transfers. Of those 33, 17 are still on the roster, although only two, Aubrey Quarles and Daniel Thomas, would really be considered impact players.

So Kansas State needed some immediate help, both for production and for depth. Signing four junior college defensive linemen was big, because the Wildcats were painfully shallow and inexperienced there. Four-star junior defensive end Adam Davis should give the Wildcats some immediate help on the edge.

The other prize in the class was freshman running back DeMarcus Robinson, a four-star prospect who chose the Wildcats over Missouri, Louisville and Kansas. Because of Thomas, running back isn't a position of immediate need, but Robinson could be valuable in spelling Thomas and changing the pace.

BLUE RIBBON ANALYSIS

Let's be frank. On paper, this is not at all a good team.
But the same could have been said last year, when Snyder

cobbled together a 6-6 record, and even had the Wildcats leading the Big 12 North for a while.

So you never want to count out LHC Bill Snyder, but K-State appears to be a ways away from winning anything of significance. Unlike the last decade, this new one begins with a couple of North Division teams -- Nebraska and Missouri -- putting a little distance between themselves and the rest of the division, those schools, K-State included, don't appear poised to make up in the short term.

What Snyder has to work with is a legitimate star at running back, a big, run-blocking offensive line, some promising receivers and a workable secondary.

If he can coax good play out of his special teams (which he usually does), and get some solid game management from the quarterback, K-State will probably be good enough to be competitive in most games. It's difficult to say, though, which teams in the Big 12 Kansas State should definitely beat.

WHAT?

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 01:21:51 PM »
here's my summary for people who don't like to read:

k-state will definitely be good or bad or somewhere in between.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 01:47:07 PM »
Quote
It's difficult to say, though, which teams in the Big 12 Kansas State should definitely beat.

Texas.  :lynchmob:

Offline steve dave

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 02:54:46 PM »
Mods, please move to the Post the entire contents of really long books board.  tia.

Offline MeatSauce

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 03:31:27 PM »
Quote
the speedy Grant Gregory

 :confused:

Offline j rake

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 06:54:24 PM »
Mods, please move to the Post the entire contents of really long books board.  tia.

Not a book. Got it from ESPN wasteofmoneysider.

Offline 06wildcat

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 06:54:39 PM »
Quote
the speedy Grant Gregory

 :confused:
Comparing him to Coffman would give one the impression that GG was the fastest man on the planet. In one of the non-con games CC's juke on an option play brought him to a dead stop. It worked because of the shitty competition. In conference play he would have been leaving on a stretcher.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 07:45:22 PM »
i almost stopped reading when it said that kstate would've beat ucla and lalafayette w/ GG and then i did stop when it said that collin klein was a sophomore transfer.

Offline felix rex

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 10:00:41 AM »
Quote
Cherry, who got off to a horrific start in 2009, finished conference play with 11 field goals, which was third in the Big 12 on a team that ranked ninth in scoring offense, and made 12 of his last 15 field goals, which made him 12-for-20 for the year, which made him the most average kicker in the Big 12.

For some reason, this was really funny to me.

K-State: Where most average happens!
"How will I recruit to Manhattan? Well, distance. And the proud state of basketball. It start there, and then daily flights to Dallas, because I'm really good at going out. Like top five good. Ask my wife. She wants me to be happy."

Offline steve dave

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 10:02:47 AM »
Mods, please move to the Post the entire contents of really long books board.  tia.

Not a book. Got it from ESPN wasteofmoneysider.

Is their hoops recruiting coverage any good?  You should copy and paste anything that mentions k-state.  Nobody reads this board so nobody will bust your balls about it. 

Offline KSU4TC

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Re: Blue Ribbon preview: Kansas State
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2010, 10:26:27 AM »
Offense:

Quarterbacks: Senior Carson Coffman came out of the spring as the starter. With his helmet on, he looks like Screech Powers out there. Can throw the ball a maximum of 28 yards, so if K-State fans are looking for the long ball to one of their unexperienced receivers, forgetaboutit. Couldn't win in 2009, and won't win games for the Cats in 2010.

Samuel Lamur might appear to be the best bet as QB for the Snyder Offensive system, but this guy couldn't even start at JUCO. I mean cripes, my next door neighbors kid went down to Butler CC and backed up their QB for 2 years and he didn't even play organized football until his senior year in high school.

Collin Klein was injured in the Spring and didn't play in the spring game. Played WR last year; so that should tell you just how polished of a QB this kid is.

GRADE = D-

Runningbacks: Daniel Thomas is a stud. Was a QB @ JUCO. Had to learn on the fly. In 2010 he'll probably get injured in the first game against UCLA -- that's the luck of the Cats. As far as backups, nobody has played any significant downs, so their pretty much high school kids wanting to get out there and play.

GRADE = B+

OFFENSIVE LINE: 4 starters back from 2009. Well, in 2009 these guys sucked, so that's not good news. It's like saying "I remember back in 8th grade when Susie Carmichael was average looking. Over the summer she stayed average and in 9th grade, she'll still looked average"

GRADE = C-

RECEIVERS:

Everyone is pretty much new out there. Yeah, yeah, Broderick Smith and Chris Harper played receiver @ their other schools. Combined they caught like 10 passes. Yippee. At least Lamark Brown transferred. That hikes up the grade a level. And who the hell is playing tight end this year for the Cats? Does anyone know? We'll just say Tightee McTighterman is going to start. I'd guess Tightee has better hands than Lamark Brown... given.

GRADE = D+