Who should the dems blame?

[Pete]

Guess Melania was double booked at the time.

[michigancat]

Let’s accept your premise that the country too racist or sexist to elect Kamala

People didn't vote for Trump over her because of her race or sex. They voted for the person they thought was the best vehicle for white, Christian nationalism.

-if Trump is such an existential threat then don’t nominate Kamala

To me, your question is ultimately like: why didn't the Dems fight white, Christian nationalism by nominating a white, Christian nationalist of their own?

-explain how Trump made big gains among not just minorities but everyone

The only big gains from any group that I'm aware of were with Latino voters. But I would say nearly all groups of Trump voters unwittingly voted against their own self interests.

He definitely made similar gains with black voters and younger voters, at least compared to 2020. The Latino shift just started earlier so they have shifted way more than any group since 2016

Stop trying to blame us. Black men literally shifted 1 percent from 2020 to 2024 to trump and black people overall shifted exactly 0%. The only real demographic shift trump was from hispanic men and women and trump showed his thanks by immediately appointing a man making the media rounds by saying he's going to attempt to deport legal citizens. Celebrate good times, come on!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/

I wasn't blaming anyone but Dems, but those exit polls are different from what I was seeing shortly after the election.

Like where in earth did this come from?

https://x.com/MatthewFoldi/status/1856348668736991301

[I_have_purplewood]

Lmao wut

Oh crap, I thought I was replying to SS7.

[MakeItRain]

Kamala is not good at campaigning and was accepted simply because the democrat leadership was afraid of the backlash if they chose someone else. Dems have a bad habit of painting themselves into corners with their fake outrage.

lol, she was fine at campaigning. There would not have been another Democrat who would have been better. She lost to a dude who committed every conventional sin known to God and man while on the trail. She lost to a guy who, multiple times the last week of the campaign, mimicked giving microphones blow jobs. He went to the largest city in a swing state and told them how shitty their city is.

People using the explanation that she was a bad campaigner to explain how she lost to Donald rough ridin' Trump, are the same ones who talked about how a former District Attorney, US Senator, and Vice President wasn't qualified to be president while voting for Donald rough ridin' Trump. The reasoning of these two particular critiques are transparent A.F.

Didn't she commit adultery earlier in her career?

Bruh

I didn't think she was bad at campaigning

Glad we agree, I don't know what any of that other stuff is all about, I didn't speak about any of it.

[MakeItRain]

Let’s accept your premise that the country too racist or sexist to elect Kamala

People didn't vote for Trump over her because of her race or sex. They voted for the person they thought was the best vehicle for white, Christian nationalism.

-if Trump is such an existential threat then don’t nominate Kamala

To me, your question is ultimately like: why didn't the Dems fight white, Christian nationalism by nominating a white, Christian nationalist of their own?

-explain how Trump made big gains among not just minorities but everyone

The only big gains from any group that I'm aware of were with Latino voters. But I would say nearly all groups of Trump voters unwittingly voted against their own self interests.

He definitely made similar gains with black voters and younger voters, at least compared to 2020. The Latino shift just started earlier so they have shifted way more than any group since 2016

Stop trying to blame us. Black men literally shifted 1 percent from 2020 to 2024 to trump and black people overall shifted exactly 0%. The only real demographic shift trump was from hispanic men and women and trump showed his thanks by immediately appointing a man making the media rounds by saying he's going to attempt to deport legal citizens. Celebrate good times, come on!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/

I wasn't blaming anyone but Dems, but those exit polls are different from what I was seeing shortly after the election.

Like where in earth did this come from?

https://x.com/MatthewFoldi/status/1856348668736991301

I don't know who that dude is but he's a liar mcliarsons. His graphic cites AP VoteCast. A couple of things, AP VoteCast is not an exit poll. Their data also shows a 1 point shift to trump, this dude is a clown and I'm about to tell him so.
https://apnews.com/article/election-harris-trump-women-latinos-black-voters-0f3fbda3362f3dcfe41aa6b858f22d12

[MakeItRain]

Rusty, I have no idea how you found that dude's account to cite but a very quick once over of his account reveals that he's a conservative propagandist. That graphic is a textbook definition of misinformation.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Kamala is not good at campaigning and was accepted simply because the democrat leadership was afraid of the backlash if they chose someone else. Dems have a bad habit of painting themselves into corners with their fake outrage.

lol, she was fine at campaigning. There would not have been another Democrat who would have been better. She lost to a dude who committed every conventional sin known to God and man while on the trail. She lost to a guy who, multiple times the last week of the campaign, mimicked giving microphones blow jobs. He went to the largest city in a swing state and told them how shitty their city is.

People using the explanation that she was a bad campaigner to explain how she lost to Donald rough ridin' Trump, are the same ones who talked about how a former District Attorney, US Senator, and Vice President wasn't qualified to be president while voting for Donald rough ridin' Trump. The reasoning of these two particular critiques are transparent A.F.

Campaigning involves answering direct questions and taking positions, good or bad.  She was one of the worst campaigners in history.  Even SNL made fun of her inability or reluctance to answer questions.

[michigancat]

Rusty, I have no idea how you found that dude's account to cite but a very quick once over of his account reveals that he's a conservative propagandist. That graphic is a textbook definition of misinformation.

Yeah I searched "black shift" on twitter, so it makes sense that a conservative weirdo would be top of the results. Shame on me.

I also recalled things like this from FT (but can't remember my source when I made my original comment):

https://www.ft.com/content/392e1e79-a8c1-4473-ab51-3267c415b078?sharetype=blocked

[MakeItRain]

Kamala is not good at campaigning and was accepted simply because the democrat leadership was afraid of the backlash if they chose someone else. Dems have a bad habit of painting themselves into corners with their fake outrage.

lol, she was fine at campaigning. There would not have been another Democrat who would have been better. She lost to a dude who committed every conventional sin known to God and man while on the trail. She lost to a guy who, multiple times the last week of the campaign, mimicked giving microphones blow jobs. He went to the largest city in a swing state and told them how shitty their city is.

People using the explanation that she was a bad campaigner to explain how she lost to Donald rough ridin' Trump, are the same ones who talked about how a former District Attorney, US Senator, and Vice President wasn't qualified to be president while voting for Donald rough ridin' Trump. The reasoning of these two particular critiques are transparent A.F.

Campaigning involves answering direct questions and taking positions, good or bad.  She was one of the worst campaigners in history.  Even SNL made fun of her inability or reluctance to answer questions.

This is stupid JD, and I'm fairly certain you know it too. Tell me what positions she specifically didn't take, what were we ambiguous about when it comes to her stances? Now compare that with the person she was running against. We actually have two full debates of trump actively not answering direct questions, literally refusing.

Even if what you assert was true, she didn't take positions and didn't answer questions, okay? Do you think that the people who voted for trump did so because of his strong policy positions and they would have voted for her if they only knew how she stood on topic x? Those voters, just like you, had the ability to know exactly what her platform was on whatever you deemed important, but you instead decided to listen to the propaganda that said she was unqualified and didn't take any stances on anything. It's a really really stupid take that can very easily be disproven. Just say you don't like the lady, and don't like democrat party positions. There's literally no reason to further this ridiculous talking point. If you truly believe she didn't take stances, let me know and I'll walk you through what you need to know and I'll completely ignore the famous quote she had stating she wouldn't do anything different than the president she spent 4 years serving under.

[michigancat]

Even if what you assert was true, she didn't take positions and didn't answer questions, okay? Do you think that the people who voted for trump did so because of his strong policy positions and they would have voted for her if they only knew how she stood on topic x?

I don't want to get into everything, but honestly Trump does a better job making it seem like he has strong policy positions and branding them.

"No tax on tips"
"Build the Wall"
"Lock her up"
"Mass deportations"
"Kamala is for They/them, Trump is for you"
"Make America Great Again"
"Democrats love war"

If you asked the average voter about top policy positions of Trump, that probably name something from that list. If you asked them the same about Kamala, what would they say? I really don't know.

Now, you and I know he probably won't follow through on any of that stuff because he's lazy and easily distracted, but you have to admit he has been better at branding and marketing than Kamala was. Whether you consider that "campaigning" or not is up to you.

[cfbandyman]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

[michigancat]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

[cfbandyman]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

Oh no argument from me at all on that. Biggest personal drum I have been beating for a while. Just the dissonance is impressive in that post was all. I do agree kinda of "moving on" from what is there replacing it with something "new" might be the better play.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

What is the argument against Universal Medicare? Government sponsored health insurance is Socialist and bad except for disabled people and people who have managed to survive until age 65?

[michigancat]

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

[michigancat]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

What is the argument against Universal Medicare? Government sponsored health insurance is Socialist and bad except for disabled people and people who have managed to survive until age 65?

it will raise your taxes, you won't be able to choose your doctor, etc. The article I linked above said hospitals were a powerful lobbying group against a public option but it wasn't clear why. My guess is because they would make less money. Maybe it would make them more efficient? Hmmm

[Sandstone Outcropping]

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

I mean people hate private health insurance companies. Would be very good for everyone if health insurance wasn't tied to your employer.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

What is the argument against Universal Medicare? Government sponsored health insurance is Socialist and bad except for disabled people and people who have managed to survive until age 65?

it will raise your taxes, you won't be able to choose your doctor, etc. The article I linked above said hospitals were a powerful lobbying group against a public option but it wasn't clear why. My guess is because they would make less money. Maybe it would make them more efficient? Hmmm

Hospitals and clinics would not exist in large parts of Kansas if it wasn't for Medicare.

[Stupid Fitz]

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

I mean people hate private health insurance companies. Would be very good for everyone if health insurance wasn't tied to your employer.

Imagine how many jobs would open up for younger people. I know several people at my company that are still around just because of the insurance. I know my retirement date would move up drastically. It would rule.

[michigancat]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

What is the argument against Universal Medicare? Government sponsored health insurance is Socialist and bad except for disabled people and people who have managed to survive until age 65?

it will raise your taxes, you won't be able to choose your doctor, etc. The article I linked above said hospitals were a powerful lobbying group against a public option but it wasn't clear why. My guess is because they would make less money. Maybe it would make them more efficient? Hmmm

Hospitals and clinics would not exist in large parts of Kansas if it wasn't for Medicare.

those hospitals aren't part of the lobbying group

and their constituents probably don't realize that fact

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

I mean people hate private health insurance companies. Would be very good for everyone if health insurance wasn't tied to your employer.

Imagine how many jobs would open up for younger people. I know several people at my company that are still around just because of the insurance. I know my retirement date would move up drastically. It would rule.

100%. I also think you would see a lot of entrepreneurs pop up if both health care was guaranteed for the founders and they knew they would never need to provide it to employees

[Stupid Fitz]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

What is the argument against Universal Medicare? Government sponsored health insurance is Socialist and bad except for disabled people and people who have managed to survive until age 65?

it will raise your taxes, you won't be able to choose your doctor, etc. The article I linked above said hospitals were a powerful lobbying group against a public option but it wasn't clear why. My guess is because they would make less money. Maybe it would make them more efficient? Hmmm

Hospitals and clinics would not exist in large parts of Kansas if it wasn't for Medicare.

those hospitals aren't part of the lobbying group

and their constituents probably don't realize that fact

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

I mean people hate private health insurance companies. Would be very good for everyone if health insurance wasn't tied to your employer.

Imagine how many jobs would open up for younger people. I know several people at my company that are still around just because of the insurance. I know my retirement date would move up drastically. It would rule.

100%. I also think you would see a lot of entrepreneurs pop up if both health care was guaranteed for the founders and they knew they would never need to provide it to employees

Yep, I think it would be a huge boom to small business. Way less of a risk to leave your job and start your own small business when you don't have to worry as much about your kid getting sick.

[Woogy]

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

I mean people hate private health insurance companies. Would be very good for everyone if health insurance wasn't tied to your employer.

Imagine how many jobs would open up for younger people. I know several people at my company that are still around just because of the insurance. I know my retirement date would move up drastically. It would rule.

This is me and I just turned 60.  My absolute last day is when I reach 65 - unless investments just absolutely tank.  Really just working for insurance for insurance coverage in large part. A few mid-horizon projects I would like to see through. We already 'retired' the wife earlier this year - she had 25 years in KPERS.  Just that annuity stipend and SS when we claim it pretty much will cover our base expenses. We're cheap dates.

[Stupid Fitz]

worth remembering Biden made a public option part of his 2020 campaign and did absolutely nothing to push it forward once elected

In the 2020 elections, then-candidate Joe Biden and many of his congressional colleagues loudly advocated for a federal “public option” health insurance plan. It was framed, at the time, as part of his incoming administration’s response to the pandemic.

“Low-income Americans will be automatically enrolled in the public option at zero cost to them, though they may choose to opt out at any time,” Democrats promised in their party platform.

But since Biden entered office, it’s been crickets. The president hasn’t uttered the phrase “public option” since December 2020, according to factba.se, which tracks his public remarks.

Why the disappearing act? In a word: politics.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/health-202-biden-public-option-health-insurance/

I mean people hate private health insurance companies. Would be very good for everyone if health insurance wasn't tied to your employer.

Imagine how many jobs would open up for younger people. I know several people at my company that are still around just because of the insurance. I know my retirement date would move up drastically. It would rule.

This is me and I just turned 60.  My absolute last day is when I reach 65 - unless investments just absolutely tank.  Really just working for insurance for insurance coverage in large part. A few mid-horizon projects I would like to see through. We already 'retired' the wife earlier this year - she had 25 years in KPERS.  Just that annuity stipend and SS when we claim it pretty much will cover our base expenses. We're cheap dates.

There are millions of people like this. Too bad you have to wait until you are even older ballz(no offense) and may not be able to do as much fun stuff with your money before you can enjoy full retirement. At least we aren't socialists before the age of 65 though!!!!!

[Spracne]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

What is the argument against Universal Medicare? Government sponsored health insurance is Socialist and bad except for disabled people and people who have managed to survive until age 65?

Don't forget veterans.

[mocat]

https://x.com/ppPepoComfy/status/1855046358077477259

Yeah, that incapsulates the bad messaging. Both from the dems side and the success of the pubs at it.

Also, Obamacare/ACA sucks.

Medicare for all would be a winning message

Of course, but it was only called "Obamacare" by people trying to kill it