Author Topic: Possible WW3 thread  (Read 243368 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Dugout DickStone

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 51761
  • BSPAC
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7175 on: July 15, 2023, 09:39:43 AM »
Lol at rosanne

Offline Pete

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29428
  • T-Shirt KSU Football Fan, Loves Lawrence and KU
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7176 on: July 15, 2023, 10:34:17 AM »
Look there are plenty of white supremacists/white nationalists in Russia but there are definitely a lot of compromises on Nazis being made by the good guys here. I think there is a real danger that Ukraine ends up blaming Zelensky at the end and embracing the Azov types.
Completely agree.  I believe Ukraine to be just as corrupt and mafia-run as Russia.  I also believe Ukraine to be just as bigoted and backward as Russia in most ways. 

HOWEVER, a key difference between the two is that one of them invaded their neighbor on a mission of conquest, systematically raped and pillaged, stole children, and carpet bombed civilians. Those are indisputable facts. 

I believe those differences to be important.

Offline Pete

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29428
  • T-Shirt KSU Football Fan, Loves Lawrence and KU
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7177 on: July 15, 2023, 10:39:38 AM »
Question for the board:  Which force will have the most impact if UKR is admitted to the EU: the “westernization” UKR from the cultural influence of the EU, or would the more significant impact be that the UKR pulls the EU more toward authoritarian right wing policies?

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85510
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7178 on: July 15, 2023, 10:41:34 AM »
Look there are plenty of white supremacists/white nationalists in Russia but there are definitely a lot of compromises on Nazis being made by the good guys here. I think there is a real danger that Ukraine ends up blaming Zelensky at the end and embracing the Azov types.
Completely agree.  I believe Ukraine to be just as corrupt and mafia-run as Russia.  I also believe Ukraine to be just as bigoted and backward as Russia in most ways. 

HOWEVER, a key difference between the two is that one of them invaded their neighbor on a mission of conquest, systematically raped and pillaged, stole children, and carpet bombed civilians. Those are indisputable facts. 

I believe those differences to be important.

I support KK's free speech in "both sidesing" the russian invasion of ukraine, though it's extraordinarily unsavory to me personally

Offline Pete

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29428
  • T-Shirt KSU Football Fan, Loves Lawrence and KU
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7179 on: July 15, 2023, 10:49:29 AM »
Look there are plenty of white supremacists/white nationalists in Russia but there are definitely a lot of compromises on Nazis being made by the good guys here. I think there is a real danger that Ukraine ends up blaming Zelensky at the end and embracing the Azov types.
Completely agree.  I believe Ukraine to be just as corrupt and mafia-run as Russia.  I also believe Ukraine to be just as bigoted and backward as Russia in most ways. 

HOWEVER, a key difference between the two is that one of them invaded their neighbor on a mission of conquest, systematically raped and pillaged, stole children, and carpet bombed civilians. Those are indisputable facts. 

I believe those differences to be important.

I support KK's free speech in "both sidesing" the russian invasion of ukraine, though it's extraordinarily unsavory to me personally
I don’t LIKE either country or their cultures, but I don’t really like the majority of cultures different than mine, so I have zero moral authority here.

So, I am not really too concerned about tit for tat cluster bombing.  Couldn’t really happen to a better pair of dirt bags.

Having said that, I rough ridin' hate Russia. 

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20537
    • View Profile
Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7180 on: July 15, 2023, 01:09:40 PM »
Look there are plenty of white supremacists/white nationalists in Russia but there are definitely a lot of compromises on Nazis being made by the good guys here. I think there is a real danger that Ukraine ends up blaming Zelensky at the end and embracing the Azov types.
Completely agree.  I believe Ukraine to be just as corrupt and mafia-run as Russia.  I also believe Ukraine to be just as bigoted and backward as Russia in most ways. 

HOWEVER, a key difference between the two is that one of them invaded their neighbor on a mission of conquest, systematically raped and pillaged, stole children, and carpet bombed civilians. Those are indisputable facts. 

I believe those differences to be important.

I support KK's free speech in "both sidesing" the russian invasion of ukraine, though it's extraordinarily unsavory to me personally
I think my orientation toward most foreign policy is going to center around the role the US is playing and my foreign policy preferences there which are:

Non-interventionism
US should be shrinking the empire
Defense spending should come down
Less hard power, more diplomacy

This is like an 0-4 so I think I can always do a better job of making clear that I don’t like Russia or Putin at all, and would obviously prefer if Russia withdrew and terms could be come to about Crimea and such, but I don’t think that is likely.

I don’t like:

-the weird celebration of this death machine
-the absurdity of Wimbledon refusing Medvedev the flag of his country and like refusing to allow Russians to compete or the cancellation of the east, pray, love authors book set in Russia or people reacting in a “freedom fries” way or worse to Russian culture, history, or people. It isn’t just vulgar and tacky, it is dangerous and bad. It should go without saying that calling people “orcs” is a bad path to go down and it is wild to me.
-claiming the Russian people are collectively responsible for Putin, because they live in a democracy. this is the same argument bin Ladin made for why he could attack American civilians. 
-the notion that if Russia is humiliated and we dance on their heads about it that is a great result for us medium or long term
-the casualness about nuclear war
-the Iraq war crowd people lecturing everyone as foreign policy experts
-the former lefties/now right wingers that now are pro-Russia people


I do not want Russia to win. I hate Putin for being a ruthless, racist, sexist, etc piece of crap, for invading and killing a bunch of people. He is a monster. Putin is the most responsible by far and he would pay for his crimes in my perfect world. I think we have a duty to defend and assist Ukraine due to what we have created but the actions undertaken and decisions being made will deepen this divide between the us and a growing number of countries in the global south.

I feel for Ukraines citizens but there are many suffering people on this earth and we are in a much better position to help many of the other groups in non violent ways that I would prefer more energy and space be given to those opportunities going forward and that we do not  stumble in to another crisis, but instead we change how we are molding the world.

The way we have chosen to engage with China is related but much more misguided and hopefully steps are being made to mend that relationship because it will define the next century.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 01:13:03 PM by Kat Kid »

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85510
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7181 on: July 15, 2023, 01:21:26 PM »
Quote
Non-interventionism
US should be shrinking the empire
Defense spending should come down
Less hard power, more diplomacy

I'm mostly on the other side of all of these though I'm in agreement that non-interventionism/diplomacy are good but hard power needs to back that up if needed (and is probably the only thing that makes either of those viable options to begin with). I also believe Putin getting his ass whipped probably makes China think twice about it's plan for Taiwan which I believe could be another positive to come out of this thing. 

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20537
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7182 on: July 15, 2023, 01:42:28 PM »
Quote
Non-interventionism
US should be shrinking the empire
Defense spending should come down
Less hard power, more diplomacy

I'm mostly on the other side of all of these though I'm in agreement that non-interventionism/diplomacy are good but hard power needs to back that up if needed (and is probably the only thing that makes either of those viable options to begin with). I also believe Putin getting his ass whipped probably makes China think twice about it's plan for Taiwan which I believe could be another positive to come out of this thing.
I agree that this has probably cooled China on Taiwan and that would be the best possible result . If Jerome can land a plane like Sully then why not Biden and Jake Sullivan?

Offline Pete

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29428
  • T-Shirt KSU Football Fan, Loves Lawrence and KU
    • View Profile
Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7183 on: July 16, 2023, 08:20:31 AM »
Point of parliamentary procedure:  Is it not OK to call a country that engages in systematic raping, pillaging, child abduction, and civilian carpet bombing “orcs?”  I was under the impression that was appropriate.  Either way, I move that we vote by acclimation to accept “orc” for Russians going forward.

Online Dugout DickStone

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 51761
  • BSPAC
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7184 on: July 16, 2023, 08:38:19 AM »
Point of parliamentary procedure:  Is it not OK to call a country that engages in systematic raping, pillaging, child abduction, and civilian carpet bombing “orcs?”  I was under the impression that was appropriate.  Either way, I move that we vote by acclimation to accept “orc” for Russians going forward.

I have endorsed this for a long time.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20537
    • View Profile
Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7185 on: July 16, 2023, 10:33:10 AM »
Point of parliamentary procedure:  Is it not OK to call a country that engages in systematic raping, pillaging, child abduction, and civilian carpet bombing “orcs?”  I was under the impression that was appropriate.  Either way, I move that we vote by acclimation to accept “orc” for Russians going forward.
Yeah I’m going to go out on a limb and say the history of dehumanizing a group of people along ethnic, national or racial lines is a bad one. I guess you and limestone have reached a different conclusion.

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 21835
  • Scholar/Gentleman, But Super Earthy/Organic
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7186 on: July 16, 2023, 12:15:01 PM »
Point of parliamentary procedure:  Is it not OK to call a country that engages in systematic raping, pillaging, child abduction, and civilian carpet bombing “orcs?”  I was under the impression that was appropriate.  Either way, I move that we vote by acclimation to accept “orc” for Russians going forward.
Yeah I’m going to go out on a limb and say the history of dehumanizing a group of people along ethnic, national or racial lines is a bad one. I guess you and limestone have reached a different conclusion.

Not the entire populace. Just the ones literally un-humanning Ukraine.

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 19896
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7187 on: July 16, 2023, 01:06:23 PM »
Yeah. I see zero nuance in this.

Russia needs to GTFOOH or die in their trenches via clusterbomb over the next 6 months

Sanctions into the Stone Age
Closed off from Europe. Doubt that happens with Putin in power though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Online Dugout DickStone

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 51761
  • BSPAC
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7188 on: July 16, 2023, 01:15:09 PM »
Point of parliamentary procedure:  Is it not OK to call a country that engages in systematic raping, pillaging, child abduction, and civilian carpet bombing “orcs?”  I was under the impression that was appropriate.  Either way, I move that we vote by acclimation to accept “orc” for Russians going forward.
Yeah I’m going to go out on a limb and say the history of dehumanizing a group of people along ethnic, national or racial lines is a bad one. I guess you and limestone have reached a different conclusion.

I should clarify.  The ones in Ukraine murdering, raping and castrating are orcs.  Your average russian living far below poverty in a coal village eating beets isn't

Not the entire populace. Just the ones literally un-humanning Ukraine.

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64338
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7189 on: July 16, 2023, 01:31:24 PM »
I can get down with most of what he's saying but I don't understand kk thinking people are casual about nuclear war
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Pete

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29428
  • T-Shirt KSU Football Fan, Loves Lawrence and KU
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7190 on: July 16, 2023, 01:49:08 PM »
Point of parliamentary procedure:  Is it not OK to call a country that engages in systematic raping, pillaging, child abduction, and civilian carpet bombing “orcs?”  I was under the impression that was appropriate.  Either way, I move that we vote by acclimation to accept “orc” for Russians going forward.
Yeah I’m going to go out on a limb and say the history of dehumanizing a group of people along ethnic, national or racial lines is a bad one. I guess you and limestone have reached a different conclusion.
If you can’t dehumanize the inhuman then where are we really?

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53770
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7191 on: July 16, 2023, 02:00:37 PM »
Dax. Crisis actors!

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1679970716731740160?s=46&t=qihx_M5rao00w7e29gt7Rw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everything we don't like is a conspiracy theory (crisis actors), Nazi's or Russians . . . #blueanon/#neocongE/Cire aka New Alex Jones


Offline DaBigTrain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12039
  • stuxnet, meltdown, spectre, Bitcoin, ffChamp
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7192 on: July 16, 2023, 02:02:05 PM »
I can get down with most of what he's saying but I don't understand kk thinking people are casual about nuclear war

You mean you don't have a little nuclear war with your morning coffee?
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

https://blockstream.info/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53770
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7193 on: July 17, 2023, 02:50:43 PM »
Pedo Pete/#armchair neocons/#neocongE - Fighting the Russians until the last Ukrainian and/or the U.S. NATO is out of ammo

But that good news obscures some grim realities. The losses have also slowed because the counteroffensive itself has slowed — and even halted in places — as Ukrainian soldiers struggle against Russia’s /formidable defenses. And despite the losses, the Ukrainians have so far taken just five of the 60 miles they hope to cover to reach the sea in the south and split the Russian forces in two.  NYT's

“I think it’s very important that we kind of take stock of where we are in our weapons state across the 32 nations of NATO, and we’re getting way down compared to where we were,” Gen. James Hecker, the commander of U.S. Air Forces Europe and Air Forces Africa

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53770
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7194 on: July 18, 2023, 08:49:59 PM »

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64338
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7195 on: July 18, 2023, 09:09:08 PM »
Ol drive by dax
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53770
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7196 on: July 18, 2023, 09:11:11 PM »
That’s incorrect and just lame #stalkerbot.7 (as usual)

Offline LickNeckey

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 6096
  • #fakeposts
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7197 on: July 18, 2023, 09:12:51 PM »

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53770
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7198 on: July 18, 2023, 09:18:27 PM »
Lame Lick

Sad

Offline Pete

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29428
  • T-Shirt KSU Football Fan, Loves Lawrence and KU
    • View Profile
Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7199 on: July 18, 2023, 10:56:08 PM »