Supreme Court Cases Thread

[420seriouscat69]

Wacky, leave goEMAW.  It’s bad for you and you’re bad for it. 

How is this fun for you?  Do you actually like arguing with people and making an ass out of yourself here every day for years?

It use to be fun, but everyone got old. 2016 really mumped these people up. You’re one of the few I’ll take advice from. Enjoy a Jose Peppers on me soon. Good night, sweet princes!


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[BIG APPLE CAT]

What’s mutual sex?

I can’t help you


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You…you cant provide a meaning for a term you just said?

[_33]

The irony of people who fervently want to restrict abortion access to others is they would never adopt the unwanted child.  That’s what I find so abhorrent.

I am pro-life and have fostered and adopted from the foster care system. Several friends of our family have done the same. You’re painting with too broad a brush.

Too broad of a brush or not, you are aware of the saturated foster care systems and lack of homes, respite care, and sponsors available for kids.  You also know that kids get kicked to the streets at 18, and as they get older they are less likely to get adopted.  How do you see the system working if unwanted pregnancies are forced to go full term?  The system is already volatile and heavily scrutinized. 

Of course I wish more people would foster and adopt.  But arguing that abortion is necessary because of a strained foster care system is abhorrent to me.

[dal9]

no one is arguing that, what a strawman...

also, some of these "foster parents" seem to be doing it for the money (or worse)

[sonofdaxjones]

Yep, they seem to be . . . but I can't offer any definitive or concrete proof of what I just said @dal9

[dal9]

Yep, they seem to be . . . but I can't offer any definitive or concrete proof of what I just said @dal9

for one, what about that nut lavoy finicum ... read up on how he was running his foster care operation

[WildcatNkilt]

For those of you who don’t know me well, I am a healthcare regulatory attorney and work in a hospital. I work in a state that has banned abortions at my hospital except those necessary to “save the life of the woman.” Let me explain how this works in practice.….

I get a call from a physician who tells me that our patient is 28 weeks pregnant and the fetus is dying from a naturally occurring condition. As the fetus dies, the woman’s body can quickly become infected and she can die as well.  So, why are they calling me? Because in Missouri (in public facilities), if there is still a heartbeat, it is considered an abortion to terminate the pregnancy.  So, the question becomes…is the woman close enough to dying to justify the abortion.

Let me repeat that:  me, a lawyer, has to help a trained physician make the decision of whether their patient is near enough to death (under the law) for them to take action that is agreed to by the patient (and often their spouse).

I can’t tell you how messed up this is. This is what we were already dealing with. Missouri’s new trigger ban resulting from the fall of Roe has made things even worse. These are women who did not plan to terminate their pregnancy. They are wives, mothers, sisters, and employees who are dealing with a tremendously difficult situation. Their lives are risked by delaying life saving care.

And, under the heartbeat rules (now standard in several states), there is serious question about whether an ectopic pregnancy can be treated before the Fallopian tube ruptures (a life threatening condition).

Here is my point to this story. The government is incapable of drafting legislation that can cover all of the nuances of human reproduction. Anytime they venture to ban abortion, there are severe consequences to women and their families. People will die. People will end up in jail for miscarriages that were out of their control.

Government simply does not belong in these private places. Always remember that the government that can prevent you from having an abortion is the same government that can force you to have one. It is also the same government that can ban contraception, or force you to have medical care you don’t want in order to “save your life.”

I will not support a candidate who believes their place is with me, in my doctor’s office.

I will not support candidates who believe the most important thing for the government to do is to control the life and livelihoods of people who can bear children.

For my Kansas friends, we MUST vote in this August’s primary. If you are registered, you can vote regardless of party affiliation. Vote on August 2nd to STOP THE BAN!!

I’ve known this woman for a long time, but didn’t exactly know what she did as an attorney at the hospital she works.  This is absolutely nuts to me. Can you imagine your wife or daughter falling ill and needing a medical procedure the state has to approve?  Mind blowing.

[sonofdaxjones]

Yep, they seem to be . . . but I can't offer any definitive or concrete proof of what I just said @dal9

for one, what about that nut lavoy finicum ... read up on how he was running his foster care operation

What percentage of foster parents does that cover?

[DQ12]

 I think, on the whole, our country does a pretty rotten job of caring for these unfortunate children, and I think we ought to do better (though props to _33 - who knew).

That said, I don’t think “their lives are extremely likely to be difficult” justifies killing/aborting them. I may have misunderstood kilt’s point so apologies if i strawmanned.

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't think abortion should be outlawed. I've said this before.

But those that advocate for anytime, anywhere abortion are a particularly evil sort, IMO.

[Pete]

We do ALL KINDS OF crap as Americans that leads to people dying to preserve our way of life here in the US.  eff LOADS OF PEOPLE are killed regularly around the globe for my cheap gas and consumer products.

I still buy cars bigger than a 4 cylinder, consume fast food and fast fashion, and am an early adopter of tech.  I probably kill more people than a dozen women who would desire an abortion after being raped.

[catastrophe]

I think, on the whole, our country does a pretty rotten job of caring for these unfortunate children, and I think we ought to do better (though props to _33 - who knew).

That said, I don’t think “their lives are extremely likely to be difficult” justifies killing/aborting them. I may have misunderstood kilt’s point so apologies if i strawmanned.

"likely to be difficult" is an understatement in many cases, imo

If we committed to a UBI and adequately funded services to meet all children's basic needs then I think you'd see the pendulum swing to most people supporting restrictions on abortions (subject to instances where the mother's health is in jeopardy). We're not even close to that. There are wayyyyyyyyy too many conservatives who would be happier letting other people's children suffer their whole lives (and judge them and their shitty children) than allow for an abortion at 10 weeks.

[Pete]

So, so much of my lifestyle is dependent upon awful mortality rates in foreign countries from circumstances created or sustained by the US Government.

[Pete]

The Supreme Court should ban ME.

[DQ12]

I think, on the whole, our country does a pretty rotten job of caring for these unfortunate children, and I think we ought to do better (though props to _33 - who knew).

That said, I don’t think “their lives are extremely likely to be difficult” justifies killing/aborting them. I may have misunderstood kilt’s point so apologies if i strawmanned.

"likely to be difficult" is an understatement in many cases, imo

If we committed to a UBI and adequately funded services to meet all children's basic needs then I think you'd see the pendulum swing to most people supporting restrictions on abortions (subject to instances where the mother's health is in jeopardy). We're not even close to that. There are wayyyyyyyyy too many conservatives who would be happier letting other people's children suffer their whole lives (and judge them and their shitty children) than allow for an abortion at 10 weeks.

To be fair, I said “extremely likely to be difficult” and what I really meant was, these kids have a tough shot at making something of themselves.  But some do.  And even if they didn’t, I don’t think they’d be better off dead.  I recognize that my point depends on them actually being worth keeping alive in the womb, and I bet that’s where we actually disagree.

But common ground on “let’s help them out more than we currently are.”

[wetwillie]

My preference is to work on the demand side of the equation and I think for the most part the data says that has already been working  itself out naturally.  The trend of overall abortions has been trending down for decades, which means per capita less people are having abortions year over year.  If you work on preventing unwanted pregnancies you also solve for lowering abortion rates.

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/462-550.png

[michigancat]

Are there any, like conservative groups dancing in the streets or something anywhere in the country? I sure didn't see any of my conservative relatives or friends celebrating on social media. They were just kinda acting like nothing happened. Strange.

[SkinnyBenny]

I have no idea what this sort of lying could be other than purely political in nature.

https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/status/1540360023217430528

This is a stain on the SC.  And a pretty bad one

Not just the Court. This will reverberate throughout the country and cause immense damage. But yeah. My faith in the institution is shot.

Bud, this institution has been a joke for years and we’ve been telling you that. I’m sorry this happened and I take no joy in it whatsoever, but at least you finally see the light (dark).

[catastrophe]

Are there any, like conservative groups dancing in the streets or something anywhere in the country? I sure didn't see any of my conservative relatives or friends celebrating on social media. They were just kinda acting like nothing happened. Strange.

I got a couple friends on my FB feed who have been saying things exactly like Wacky has here, but otherwise yes it hasn’t been a very triumphant tone.

[cfbandyman]

My preference is to work on the demand side of the equation and I think for the most part the data says that has already been working  itself out naturally.  The trend of overall abortions has been trending down for decades, which means per capita less people are having abortions year over year.  If you work on preventing unwanted pregnancies you also solve for lowering abortion rates.

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/462-550.png

And I've been on this train for a long, long time. The goal for everyone should be 0, know that it can't be zero, but try our best to have it be 0.

In a perfect world we live in a place where my cousin can still do what she did while also knowing that is the fewer times that happens because we have awesome sex ed, access to contraception (which yikes Thomas), and reasons to not send parents and kids to the poor house. The rate would keep falling to a point no one would care about it anymore.

This decision just opens to the door to more tomfuckery and takes those steps back.

[Pete]

Are there any, like conservative groups dancing in the streets or something anywhere in the country? I sure didn't see any of my conservative relatives or friends celebrating on social media. They were just kinda acting like nothing happened. Strange.

Apart from religious zealots, no.  Hopefully this means their base is less mobilized and it fucks them hard in the next election.

[cfbandyman]

Are there any, like conservative groups dancing in the streets or something anywhere in the country? I sure didn't see any of my conservative relatives or friends celebrating on social media. They were just kinda acting like nothing happened. Strange.

Apart from religious zealots, no.  Hopefully this means their base is less mobilized and it fucks them hard in the next election.

Yeah, only a few I saw were saying anything about it.

I am genuinely curious if this emboldens or dampens them. August 2 might show that

[420seriouscat69]

A dem isn’t winning anything, any time soon. The Bernie backers that got duped into voting for Biden aren’t voting for him again. Especially since he didn’t touch their student loan debt for their drama degree’s.


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[Cire]

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1524431029473316866

yeah it's such a rote thing to say nowadays (that XXX minority group is disparately impacted) that i think it just kind of slipped in...no way it's right

i've seen it defended on twitter.  according to the sourcing there, it's apparently based on a study that found that among lgtbq individuals that had heterosexual sex with men and heterosexual women that had heterosexual sex, the lgtbq individuals were more likely to have had an unwanted pregnancy.

People who are LGBTQ face higher rates of sexual assault.


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[catastrophe]

My preference is to work on the demand side of the equation and I think for the most part the data says that has already been working  itself out naturally.  The trend of overall abortions has been trending down for decades, which means per capita less people are having abortions year over year.  If you work on preventing unwanted pregnancies you also solve for lowering abortion rates.

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/462-550.png

And I've been on this train for a long, long time. The goal for everyone should be 0, know that it can't be zero, but try our best to have it be 0.

In a perfect world we live in a place where my cousin can still do what she did while also knowing that is the fewer times that happens because we have awesome sex ed, access to contraception (which yikes Thomas), and reasons to not send parents and kids to the poor house. The rate would keep falling to a point no one would care about it anymore.

This decision just opens to the door to more tomfuckery and takes those steps back.

I agree with all this, and I think it should absolutely be the position of anyone who calls themselves pro life. It’s a borderline insane position to argue women are actively seeking abortions to get ahead in this world.

This isn’t like criminalizing embezzlement, insider trading, or murder. You would be criminalizing an incredibly difficult solution to a problem that is largely preventable. But rather than focus on prevention so many groups have been laser focused on placing the burden on the women themselves.