Supreme Court Cases Thread

[Spracne]

Ok but what if it's mutual buhsecks?

Keep acting like you've never been to Lawrence.

[DQ12]

I don’t think polling suggests that any state would ban gay marriage.  That’s an issue that has had a pretty dramatic shift in support over the last 20-30 years. The chatter about interracial marriage being on the chopping block anywhere seems far more unlikely.

Thomas’s concurrence notwithstanding, I think those freedoms are pretty unlikely to go anywhere.

[Spracne]

I don’t think polling suggests that any state would ban gay marriage.  That’s an issue that has had a pretty dramatic shift in support over the last 20-30 years. The chatter about interracial marriage being on the chopping block anywhere seems far more unlikely.

Thomas’s concurrence notwithstanding, I think those freedoms are pretty unlikely to go anywhere.

I said the same thing about Roe. Like, a lot.

[DQ12]

I think Abortion is a far more broadly divisive issue in 2022 than gay marriage.  Last I saw only one state had majority disapproval of gay marriage: the south of the south.  And that was only like by 1% and the poll was a couple of years old. 

I don’t think banning gay marriage in ks, for example, would have a shot.

Fwiw, interracial marriage approval rating is like 96%.  Apparently in the 50s when they started polling for that, it was at 4%! 

I’m sure someone somewhere has written some interesting articles about how the Court has influenced public opinion on that kind of stuff - I.e. whether the court is a reflection of changing values or a facilitator of changing values.

[Spracne]

I think Abortion is a far more divisive issue in 2022 than gay marriage.  Last I saw only one state had majority disapproval of gay marriage: the south of the south.  And that was only like by 1% and the poll was a couple of years old. 

I don’t think banning gay marriage in ks, for example, would have a shot.

You realize how derpy a lot of our state governments are, right? Do you think these essential protections should be left up to them? I'll be honest, I used to think that way, but I don't anymore.

[DQ12]

I think Abortion is a far more divisive issue in 2022 than gay marriage.  Last I saw only one state had majority disapproval of gay marriage: the south of the south.  And that was only like by 1% and the poll was a couple of years old. 

I don’t think banning gay marriage in ks, for example, would have a shot.

You realize how derpy a lot of our state governments are, right? Do you think these essential protections should be left up to them? I'll be honest, I used to think that way, but I don't anymore.

I’m not even commenting on that.  I don’t think so, but I’m really out of my element on substantive rights conlaw. 

I’m just talking about the practical effect.  A ban on gay marriage in Kansas wouldn’t be close imo - at least not today - who knows what Kansas looks like in 10, 20, 30 years.  Abortion, OTOH?  We’ll see in august.  That’s my point.

[Spracne]

I think Abortion is a far more divisive issue in 2022 than gay marriage.  Last I saw only one state had majority disapproval of gay marriage: the south of the south.  And that was only like by 1% and the poll was a couple of years old. 

I don’t think banning gay marriage in ks, for example, would have a shot.

You realize how derpy a lot of our state governments are, right? Do you think these essential protections should be left up to them? I'll be honest, I used to think that way, but I don't anymore.

I’m not even commenting on that.  I don’t think so, but I’m really out of my element on substantive rights conlaw. 

I’m just talking about the practical effect.  A ban on gay marriage in Kansas wouldn’t be close imo - at least not today - who knows what Kansas looks like in 10, 20, 30 years.  Abortion, OTOH?  We’ll see in august.  That’s my point.

Mind if I ask how you plan to vote on Aug. 2?

[nicname]

Predictos on the Aug 2 vote?

I can’t see it being more than 55/45 either way.

[DQ12]

I think Abortion is a far more divisive issue in 2022 than gay marriage.  Last I saw only one state had majority disapproval of gay marriage: the south of the south.  And that was only like by 1% and the poll was a couple of years old. 

I don’t think banning gay marriage in ks, for example, would have a shot.

You realize how derpy a lot of our state governments are, right? Do you think these essential protections should be left up to them? I'll be honest, I used to think that way, but I don't anymore.

I’m not even commenting on that.  I don’t think so, but I’m really out of my element on substantive rights conlaw. 

I’m just talking about the practical effect.  A ban on gay marriage in Kansas wouldn’t be close imo - at least not today - who knows what Kansas looks like in 10, 20, 30 years.  Abortion, OTOH?  We’ll see in august.  That’s my point.

Mind if I ask how you plan to vote on Aug. 2?

Don’t live in KS, cuz.

[Spracne]

harumph.

[SkinnyBenny]

How would you vote if you did?

[SkinnyBenny]

Praying in circles before or after games isn’t weird. It’s definitely not something said coaches and the majority of their players are going feel weird doing or feel it’s at all inappropriate aside from directive from school administrator types.

It’s the opposite. It has always been the norm, especially in athletics where imo evangelical and religious types are far more common.

that's precisely missing the point: the problem isn't that some "coaches and the majority of their players aren't going to feel weird doing it"...it's about the minority that is coerced into going along with something that violates their own religious beliefs

and ftr, i'm not convinced that this is all that common...i grew up in a red state (not KS, not deep south) and i don't remember any prayer at games, home or away...

Yes what dal9 said. Also if you are the adult employee and you can’t understand that creating an environment where minors are in any way shape or form expected or encouraged to join your personal and specific religious prayers and rituals, I am dumbfounded. Like how can adults not understand how inappropriate that is in a public school setting. Outside of a fellowship of Christian athletes club meeting or something, group prayer shouldn’t be allowed or ok in public schools and any adult leading it is without a doubt rough ridin' weird.

Butch Albright’s teams absolutely had coach-led prayer in the lockerrooms before every game when I was in high school. That was in the early 2000s.

[DQ12]

How would you vote if you did?

I’d vote yes if I lived in Kansas. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

Praying in circles before or after games isn’t weird. It’s definitely not something said coaches and the majority of their players are going feel weird doing or feel it’s at all inappropriate aside from directive from school administrator types.

It’s the opposite. It has always been the norm, especially in athletics where imo evangelical and religious types are far more common.

that's precisely missing the point: the problem isn't that some "coaches and the majority of their players aren't going to feel weird doing it"...it's about the minority that is coerced into going along with something that violates their own religious beliefs

and ftr, i'm not convinced that this is all that common...i grew up in a red state (not KS, not deep south) and i don't remember any prayer at games, home or away...

Yes what dal9 said. Also if you are the adult employee and you can’t understand that creating an environment where minors are in any way shape or form expected or encouraged to join your personal and specific religious prayers and rituals, I am dumbfounded. Like how can adults not understand how inappropriate that is in a public school setting. Outside of a fellowship of Christian athletes club meeting or something, group prayer shouldn’t be allowed or ok in public schools and any adult leading it is without a doubt rough ridin' weird.

Butch Albright’s teams absolutely had coach-led prayer in the lockerrooms before every game when I was in high school. That was in the early 2000s.

Yes and being in fca was almost a free ticket to bill congletons basketball team

[Dr Rick Daris]

He’s also an adult. Suck it up and deal. That’s also how I feel about the high school stuff. Like, I think it’s weird that the coaches/teachers think it’s ok (it isn’t) but I also don’t care that much. Life is full of people unaware of how in appropriate and ignorant they are.

If your kid was getting singled out and bullied as a result you might care more.

What would my kid be singled out and bullied for? Also it’s wrong and shouldn’t be allowed but I’d spend more of my energy laughing at the person doing it than anything else.

[catastrophe]

I think Abortion is a far more divisive issue in 2022 than gay marriage.  Last I saw only one state had majority disapproval of gay marriage: the south of the south.  And that was only like by 1% and the poll was a couple of years old. 

I don’t think banning gay marriage in ks, for example, would have a shot.

You realize how derpy a lot of our state governments are, right? Do you think these essential protections should be left up to them? I'll be honest, I used to think that way, but I don't anymore.

I’m not even commenting on that.  I don’t think so, but I’m really out of my element on substantive rights conlaw. 

I’m just talking about the practical effect.  A ban on gay marriage in Kansas wouldn’t be close imo - at least not today - who knows what Kansas looks like in 10, 20, 30 years.  Abortion, OTOH?  We’ll see in august.  That’s my point.

I mean Obergerfell was only a few years ago. Looking at states that allowed gay marriage before that should be a pretty fair barometer of what they’ll do.

[CNS]

Per Gallup, in may 22, all but 15% of ppl though abortion should be legal in some form or another. If that remaining 15%, 2% had no opinion. Only the remaining 13% thought it should be illegal in all cases.

Seems like public support of an issue is not a good arguememt right now.

[DQ12]

Per Gallup, in may 22, all but 15% of ppl though abortion should be legal in some form or another. If that remaining 15%, 2% had no opinion. Only the remaining 13% thought it should be illegal in all cases.

Seems like public support of an issue is not a good arguememt right now.

I don’t think I’ve seen a single state law that prohibits abortion in every case no exception.

[Kat Kid]

Per Gallup, in may 22, all but 15% of ppl though abortion should be legal in some form or another. If that remaining 15%, 2% had no opinion. Only the remaining 13% thought it should be illegal in all cases.

Seems like public support of an issue is not a good arguememt right now.

I don’t think I’ve seen a single state law that prohibits abortion in every case no exception.

I bet there is a personhood amendment in at least one state soon.

[CNS]

Per Gallup, in may 22, all but 15% of ppl though abortion should be legal in some form or another. If that remaining 15%, 2% had no opinion. Only the remaining 13% thought it should be illegal in all cases.

Seems like public support of an issue is not a good arguememt right now.

I don’t think I’ve seen a single state law that prohibits abortion in every case no exception.

Even without going all the way to zero exceptions, a 61% majority want the right with no exception. All interpretations of the Gallup data show a court precedent restricting rights a majority want.

[DQ12]

Per Gallup, in may 22, all but 15% of ppl though abortion should be legal in some form or another. If that remaining 15%, 2% had no opinion. Only the remaining 13% thought it should be illegal in all cases.

Seems like public support of an issue is not a good arguememt right now.

I don’t think I’ve seen a single state law that prohibits abortion in every case no exception.

Even without going all the way to zero exceptions, a 61% majority want the right with no exception. All interpretations of the Gallup data show a court precedent restricting rights a majority want.

Would you mind providing a link to that data supporting 61% want abortion access without exception?

[steve dave]

This is Gallup data I found. Not 60%+ in their data but certainly trending in one direction….

[steve dave]

[DQ12]

This is Gallup data I found. Not 60%+ in their data but certainly trending in one direction….

35% seems like an awful long way from 60%

[chum1]

Is 85% a lot?