Author Topic: critical race theory  (Read 12043 times)

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Offline steve dave

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critical race theory
« on: June 23, 2021, 01:42:00 PM »


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Online Cire

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2021, 02:34:27 PM »
Gaetz is such a turd. I really hope he gets nailed


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2021, 02:39:15 PM »
Why would being woke be offensive?

Offline MadCat

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2021, 03:11:58 PM »
Why would being woke be offensive?

Maybe some people use "woke" as an insult and he doesn't want those people insulting his officers  :dunno:

Offline steve dave

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2021, 08:58:48 PM »

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2021, 09:29:54 PM »

Offline steve dave

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Offline Spracne

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2021, 02:27:19 AM »
May as well be tilting at windmills.

Offline _33

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2021, 10:52:17 AM »
I know it probably (definitely?) isn't possible, but I would love to have a real discussion about CRT in this thread.  I've been researching it for a while and there are aspects I still don't understand but I've learned a lot. 

I still can't get past one of the major tenets which is that race is socially constructed rather than a biological reality.  I understand that discrimination based upon physical differences is socially constructed/learned, but how does that mean that race itself is socially constructed?  One thing I read said that anthropologists can determine what race an individual was through skeletal remains with almost 100% accuracy.  Doesn't that undercut race itself as a social construct?  Differences in biology based on race doesn't mean one is superior to another although OBVIOUSLY that claim has been made in the past to justify discrimination.  The genetic difference between fat people and skinny people is an extremely small fraction of the genetic whole and yet many times fat people are treated differently based on weight.  So according to CRT would obesity be a social construct?  I don't know.

There seem to be things I disagree with about CRT and things I agree with.  I'm not offended by it and I don't think it will cause the downfall of humanity but I also don't think it should be taught as objective fact or a science. 

As with everything else in this stupid idiotic and super dumb political world everything gets sensationalized into life and death sound bites for clicks.  So if anyone wants to have a rational discussion/debate about CRT please come. 

Some of you may be thinking, 'but _33 you always make fun of us for discussing political things on message boards and call us dumb idiots and talk about how none of it matters you dumb idiot'.  WELL I'M TRYING TO LEARN STUFF ABOUT STUFF OK SO GET OFF MY BACK.

Please come.

Offline bucket

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2021, 10:58:23 AM »
I know it probably (definitely?) isn't possible, but I would love to have a real discussion about CRT in this thread.  I've been researching it for a while and there are aspects I still don't understand but I've learned a lot. 

I still can't get past one of the major tenets which is that race is socially constructed rather than a biological reality.  I understand that discrimination based upon physical differences is socially constructed/learned, but how does that mean that race itself is socially constructed?  One thing I read said that anthropologists can determine what race an individual was through skeletal remains with almost 100% accuracy.  Doesn't that undercut race itself as a social construct?  Differences in biology based on race doesn't mean one is superior to another although OBVIOUSLY that claim has been made in the past to justify discrimination.  The genetic difference between fat people and skinny people is an extremely small fraction of the genetic whole and yet many times fat people are treated differently based on weight.  So according to CRT would obesity be a social construct?  I don't know.

There seem to be things I disagree with about CRT and things I agree with.  I'm not offended by it and I don't think it will cause the downfall of humanity but I also don't think it should be taught as objective fact or a science. 

As with everything else in this stupid idiotic and super dumb political world everything gets sensationalized into life and death sound bites for clicks.  So if anyone wants to have a rational discussion/debate about CRT please come. 

Some of you may be thinking, 'but _33 you always make fun of us for discussing political things on message boards and call us dumb idiots and talk about how none of it matters you dumb idiot'.  WELL I'M TRYING TO LEARN STUFF ABOUT STUFF OK SO GET OFF MY BACK.

Please come.

What resources have you been using? Books or on the web?

Offline _33

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2021, 10:58:54 AM »
I know it probably (definitely?) isn't possible, but I would love to have a real discussion about CRT in this thread.  I've been researching it for a while and there are aspects I still don't understand but I've learned a lot. 

I still can't get past one of the major tenets which is that race is socially constructed rather than a biological reality.  I understand that discrimination based upon physical differences is socially constructed/learned, but how does that mean that race itself is socially constructed?  One thing I read said that anthropologists can determine what race an individual was through skeletal remains with almost 100% accuracy.  Doesn't that undercut race itself as a social construct?  Differences in biology based on race doesn't mean one is superior to another although OBVIOUSLY that claim has been made in the past to justify discrimination.  The genetic difference between fat people and skinny people is an extremely small fraction of the genetic whole and yet many times fat people are treated differently based on weight.  So according to CRT would obesity be a social construct?  I don't know.

There seem to be things I disagree with about CRT and things I agree with.  I'm not offended by it and I don't think it will cause the downfall of humanity but I also don't think it should be taught as objective fact or a science. 

As with everything else in this stupid idiotic and super dumb political world everything gets sensationalized into life and death sound bites for clicks.  So if anyone wants to have a rational discussion/debate about CRT please come. 

Some of you may be thinking, 'but _33 you always make fun of us for discussing political things on message boards and call us dumb idiots and talk about how none of it matters you dumb idiot'.  WELL I'M TRYING TO LEARN STUFF ABOUT STUFF OK SO GET OFF MY BACK.

Please come.

What resources have you been using? Books or on the web?

web

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2021, 11:03:04 AM »
Quote
I still can't get past one of the major tenets which is that race is socially constructed rather than a biological reality.

Because race is just a pigment variation why do we exclusively group people based on only this biological difference? Wouldn't you find it silly that instead of grouping people by race we did so by height? Like height, pigment varies within people and isn't static even with individuals. Eye color is static, why don't we group people that way? Race allows people to hang on to monolithic thoughts about large groups of people. Could you imagine someone saying, what's it like growing up with brown eyes in rural Kansas? Sounds silly as eff, right?

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2021, 11:05:22 AM »
May as well be tilting at windmills.

except a crap ton of trumpers believe this insane crap.

Offline _33

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2021, 11:16:16 AM »
Quote
I still can't get past one of the major tenets which is that race is socially constructed rather than a biological reality.

Because race is just a pigment variation why do we exclusively group people based on only this biological difference? Wouldn't you find it silly that instead of grouping people by race we did so by height? Like height, pigment varies within people and isn't static even with individuals. Eye color is static, why don't we group people that way? Race allows people to hang on to monolithic thoughts about large groups of people. Could you imagine someone saying, what's it like growing up with brown eyes in rural Kansas? Sounds silly as eff, right?

Well, like I said, I agree that grouping/discriminating against people based on race is socially constructed.  But height and eye color are biological realities as well.  Even if we did group blue eyed people together and make generalizations about them their blue eyes would still be a biological reality even if the socially constructed group and generalizations we assigned to them were socially constructed. 

Is that what CRT is arguing?  Like, they're not arguing that skin pigmentation is socially constructed, so does it simply mean that the generalizations based on race are socially constructed?  They don't say that though, most of the literature I've read says that race itself is socially constructed.  Maybe I'm making it too complicated.

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2021, 11:22:18 AM »
Quote
I still can't get past one of the major tenets which is that race is socially constructed rather than a biological reality.

Because race is just a pigment variation why do we exclusively group people based on only this biological difference? Wouldn't you find it silly that instead of grouping people by race we did so by height? Like height, pigment varies within people and isn't static even with individuals. Eye color is static, why don't we group people that way? Race allows people to hang on to monolithic thoughts about large groups of people. Could you imagine someone saying, what's it like growing up with brown eyes in rural Kansas? Sounds silly as eff, right?

Well, like I said, I agree that grouping/discriminating against people based on race is socially constructed.  But height and eye color are biological realities as well.  Even if we did group blue eyed people together and make generalizations about them their blue eyes would still be a biological reality even if the socially constructed group and generalizations we assigned to them were socially constructed. 

Is that what CRT is arguing?  Like, they're not arguing that skin pigmentation is socially constructed, so does it simply mean that the generalizations based on race are socially constructed?  They don't say that though, most of the literature I've read says that race itself is socially constructed.  Maybe I'm making it too complicated.

drop some links of your literature

Offline _33

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Online Cire

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2021, 11:37:54 AM »
This is what white evangelicals are enraged about

https://www.learningforjustice.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/Teaching-Tolerance-Magazine-66-Spring-2021.pdf


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2021, 11:38:11 AM »
I think like most things, “critical race theory” means different things to different people. In most cases there is no attempt to define terms or actually understand anything anytime the term is brought up is just a proxy battle for grievances. 

I think this discussion is off to a good start and a big part of that is a fundamental curiosity about defining terms and then proceeding.

Good job everyone.

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2021, 12:00:57 PM »
I think like most things, “critical race theory” means different things to different people. In most cases there is no attempt to define terms or actually understand anything anytime the term is brought up is just a proxy battle for grievances. 

I think this discussion is off to a good start and a big part of that is a fundamental curiosity about defining terms and then proceeding.

Good job everyone.
That may be but CRT does have “tenets” or claims about racism in America.

People just don’t accept it. Maga has taken the term to rally white evangelicals.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2021, 12:13:16 PM »
I think like most things, “critical race theory” means different things to different people. In most cases there is no attempt to define terms or actually understand anything anytime the term is brought up is just a proxy battle for grievances. 

I think this discussion is off to a good start and a big part of that is a fundamental curiosity about defining terms and then proceeding.

Good job everyone.
That may be but CRT does have “tenets” or claims about racism in America.

People just don’t accept it. Maga has taken the term to rally white evangelicals.


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I am not super involved in this but I think saying CRT has “tenets” is the same as saying “feminism” has “tenets”. I think it is just a framework and there are people that that say all kinds of different things by claiming to use that theoretical frame.

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critical race theory
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2021, 12:17:15 PM »
One tenet: race is a social construct. Rejects the historical 5 races. There’s only human race.

Another. Racism is embedded in society and our systems legal/financial/education etc

Rejects that there are a few bad apples that are really racist and that’s it.

Non POC need to recognize that POC live a different experience in America.


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« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 12:21:55 PM by Cire »

Offline _33

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2021, 12:29:11 PM »
Cire, I know, I'm trying to understand it.  So we are all one human race with genetically insignificant differences. (skin pigmentation, hair color, etc.) Our genetic differences aren't enough to classify as a different race.  Is that the position.  So really it's a problem with the definition of the word 'race'.

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2021, 12:29:57 PM »
I think so.

Based on the genetics being the same


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Online Cire

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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2021, 12:30:29 PM »
Like should say people of European descent instead of Caucasian


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Re: critical race theory
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2021, 12:34:54 PM »
I don't really understand the significant of the "race is a social construct" line.  Even if it is a social construct, what's the conclusion or the implication of that?   


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