Fire Chris Klieman

[Shooter Jones]

Also, for note, since people keep thinking Klieman might actually get fired any time soon:

Buyout:
2022: 15.3 mil ($3.5 mill salary + incentives/bonuses)
2023: 12.7 mil ($4 mill salary + incentives/bonuses)
2024: 8.6 mil ($4.3 mill salary + incentives/bonuses)
2025: 4.3 mil ($4.3 mill salary + incentives/bonuses)

He's here through the life of this contract.

[420seriouscat69]

This is all going to be a moot point in 6 weeks

[michigancat]

I've said it before but I'll say it again: If Prince wasn't a maniac losing every game by 3+scores with a disastrous insane juco class and assistants leaving left and right, he probably would have stayed based on his record alone. 7-6, 5-7, 5-7, wasn't that bad based on Bill's two seasons prior.

If you swap a KU win with someone else and his record remained the same each season, but he was 3-0 against KU, all the insanity would have been pushed aside and he probably would've been here a few more years.

I disagree

[Rage Against the McKee]

I mean, if Klieman loses his next 5 games, I don't think he will be the coach next season, and I really doubt anyone will think better of him than they do Prince.

The curiosity would be if he loses his next 3.

From this point, here's RP's schedule:

L @ colorado
L vs oklahoma
L @ kansas
L @ missouri
L vs nebraska
W vs iowa state.

But if it was after that 3rd L that KSU informed him he was done at year-end.

His next 3 are Tech, TCU, and Kansas. If he goes 0-3 in that stretch, he's going to finish 0-6. I would be disappointed with 2-1 in that stretch.

[DQ12]

If Ron would've lost his starting QB in 2007 and we had to roll through games with redshirt freshman CCQ through the rest of the year, I imagine his record would've been a lot worse.  It's not really CK's fault that Thompson was injured from a roughing the passer penalty last season and that his true freshman QB with no spring wasn't really much help.

[Shooter Jones]

If Ron would've lost his starting QB in 2007 and we had to roll through games with redshirt freshman CCQ through the rest of the year, I imagine his record would've been a lot worse.  It's not really CK's fault that Thompson was injured from a roughing the passer penalty last season and that his true freshman QB with no spring wasn't really much help.

People bring this up a lot, but shouldn't Ron be given credit for recruiting Josh Freeman? It's not a knock that he was HIS QB. Klieman recruited Will Howard and he was forced to play. They are quarterbacks that each coach brought in. It shouldn't be another Klieman excuse, it's their job to bring in the best players they can.

[Shooter Jones]

Kind of read that wrong. Gonna leave the post up, though, because, yeah

[420seriouscat69]

Klieman's Freeman hasn't played a down yet. He's landed a comparable QB via Rivals rankings tho. That stories yet to be written.

[CHONGS]

Who are KState's rivals these days?  Or does Klieman get pass because it's only KU now?

[KCFDcat]

 

Who are KState's rivals these days?  Or does Klieman get pass because it's only KU now?

KU and Iowas State?

[MakeItRain]

The back to back posts of WC08 saying he used to get too worked up about this stuff in his 20s and now he's a happy sensible fan and then getting way too worked up about the DII vs FCS thing was very enjoyable.

I guess some people are cool with living in a post fact world.

The hilarious thing about the stupid D2 thing is the same people doing that are the same ones who creamed their britches about Seth LittreLL and it's funny that people say that to denigrate Klieman because North Texas always has been and probably always be a significantly worse program than NDSU. Good FCS schools are light years better than bad Sun Belt and CUSA schools.

[MakeItRain]

I think it's dumb to compare them because I know first hand how much of a crap show Prince was and I still have some faith in CK, but it's pretty incredible how similarly their K-State tenures have trended so far.

Prince: Started 10-7 w/ 2 wins over UT, went 6-13 after (3-11 in conference), 0-1 in bowl games
Kli: Started 10-6 w/ 2 wins over OU, has gone 6-8 since (2-8 in conference), 0-1 in bowl games

Imagine if we would've given Prince an extension and $15mill buyout after that second UT win.......

Y'all gotta stop talking about that buyout, he got that buyout because when it was given it was apparent there was no conceivable scenario he was going to be fired for on the field results before 2023. That number could be $100 million and it wouldn't mean a single thing.

[MakeItRain]

Who are KState's rivals these days?  Or does Klieman get pass because it's only KU now?

I think the other two rivals/measuring stick programs are ISU and OSU.

My question is though why do people keep comparing him to Ron? Why are we pretending the situations are even close to the same thing?

Are we going to act like the off the field stuff didn't get Ron fired, is that what we're now gonna do? If that's what we're doing that's some very convenient revisionist history, especially coming from this board who's second most popular thread o.a.t. was all about Ron and his program off of the field.

[CHONGS]

He's the only other coach on our lifetimes that we can compare him to that's not LHC Bill Snyder.

With the caveat that I know that on field performance isn't everything, it's still the case that the on field performance isn't that different between the two, and it basically boils down to:

We no longer play two of our major rivals and KU is historically bad.

The only game we can lose that people will really care about is KU, and it never really mattered how good or bad they are. 

'Beat KU' is the only real requirement to be a coach at KSU.

And we're not that unique in that regard when it comes to rivalries.   

[wiley]

Not perfect, but not earth shaking.  CK is just not ready for this.  When was the last time in his career he went through such a savage and prolonged ass kicking?

This is where I am. What was the quote when they were thinking of hiring him? I think it was like Jim Harbaugh and Jim Tressel were the only guys to have any real success at making the jump from divisions? At least we gave him a big extension and large buyout because "some Big 10 team called him once".

Why Brian Kelly is constantly left out of this conversation (not just here) blows my mind.

[michigancat]

Not perfect, but not earth shaking.  CK is just not ready for this.  When was the last time in his career he went through such a savage and prolonged ass kicking?

This is where I am. What was the quote when they were thinking of hiring him? I think it was like Jim Harbaugh and Jim Tressel were the only guys to have any real success at making the jump from divisions? At least we gave him a big extension and large buyout because "some Big 10 team called him once".

Why Brian Kelly is constantly left out of this conversation (not just here) blows my mind.

People will accept if they pay their dues at a G5 school first.

I think the argument for Klieman over most FCS coaches is that he easily had the best program at that level for many years. Obviously, the others that came up in recent memory can't claim that.

[nicname]

Not perfect, but not earth shaking.  CK is just not ready for this.  When was the last time in his career he went through such a savage and prolonged ass kicking?

This is where I am. What was the quote when they were thinking of hiring him? I think it was like Jim Harbaugh and Jim Tressel were the only guys to have any real success at making the jump from divisions? At least we gave him a big extension and large buyout because "some Big 10 team called him once".

Why Brian Kelly is constantly left out of this conversation (not just here) blows my mind.

People will accept if they pay their dues at a G5 school first.

I think the argument for Klieman over most FCS coaches is that he easily had the best program at that level for many years. Obviously, the others that came up in recent memory can't claim that.

Yeah, Tressel and Klieman are the only two coaches to have won 4 FCS titles in its history.

Small sample size shows major FCS success means little to a coach's FBS prospects.

FCS WINNING COACHES' FBS COACHING RESUMES
Jim Tressel (tOSU): 10 seasons, 106-22 (66-14), 1 natty, 7 conf titles, 10 bowls (8 BCS).
Paul Johnson (Navy, GT): Navy, 6 seasons, 45-29, 1 top-25 finish, 5 bowls. Georgia Tech, 11 seasons, 82-61 (51-37), 1 conference title, 1 top 10 finish, 3 top 25 finishes, 9 bowls (2 BCS).
Jim Donnan (Georgia): 5 seasons, 40-19 (25-15), 1 top 10 finish, 4 top 25 finishes, 4 bowls
Craig Bohl (Wyoming): 8 seasons, 42-46 (25-31), 3 bowls, 2 8-win seasons.
Chris Klieman (EMAW U): *3 seasons, 15-14 (9-12), 1 bowl, 1 winning season (8-5)
Joe Glenn (Wyoming): 6 seasons, 30-41 (15-31), 1 bowl, 1 winning season (7-5).
Mike London (Virginia): 6 seasons, 27-46 (14-34), 1 bowl, 1 8-win season.
Mike Houston (East Carolina): 3 seasons, 10-17 (5-13).

[wiley]

Not perfect, but not earth shaking.  CK is just not ready for this.  When was the last time in his career he went through such a savage and prolonged ass kicking?

This is where I am. What was the quote when they were thinking of hiring him? I think it was like Jim Harbaugh and Jim Tressel were the only guys to have any real success at making the jump from divisions? At least we gave him a big extension and large buyout because "some Big 10 team called him once".

Why Brian Kelly is constantly left out of this conversation (not just here) blows my mind.

People will accept if they pay their dues at a G5 school first.

I think the argument for Klieman over most FCS coaches is that he easily had the best program at that level for many years. Obviously, the others that came up in recent memory can't claim that.

Yeah, Tressel and Klieman are the only two coaches to have won 4 FCS titles in its history.

Small sample size shows major FCS success means little to a coach's FBS prospects.

Jim Tressel (tOSU): 10 seasons, 106-22 (66-14), 1 natty, 7 conf titles, 10 bowls (8 BCS).
Paul Johnson (Navy, GT): Navy, 6 seasons, 45-29, 1 top-25 finish, 5 bowls. Georgia Tech, 11 seasons, 82-61 (51-37), 1 conference title, 1 top 10 finish, 3 top 25 finishes, 9 bowls (2 BCS).
Jim Donnan (Georgia): 5 seasons, 40-19 (25-15), 1 top 10 finish, 4 top 25 finishes, 4 bowls
Craig Bohl (Wyoming): 8 seasons, 42-46 (25-31), 3 bowls, 2 8-win seasons.
Chris Klieman (EMAW U): *3 seasons, 15-14 (9-12), 1 bowl, 1 winning season (8-5)
Joe Glenn (Wyoming): 6 seasons, 30-41 (15-31), 1 bowl, 1 winning season (7-5).
Mike London (Virginia): 6 seasons, 27-46 (14-34), 1 bowl, 1 8-win season.
Mike Houston (East Carolina): 3 seasons, 10-17 (5-13).

Seeing Paul Johnson reminds me that Jeff Monken came to Army from Georgia Southern who was FCS at the time he left (D1 now I believe)

[420seriouscat69]

https://twitter.com/cfbonfox/status/1451263779375775746?s=21

[nicname]

https://twitter.com/cfbonfox/status/1451263779375775746?s=21

I'd like to see one of these for all the conferences.

[420seriouscat69]

https://twitter.com/cfbonfox/status/1451263779375775746?s=21

I'd like to see one of these for all the conferences.

What better data are you looking for here to create your narrative? SEC is the minors to the NFL & this fan base is jealous of Mizzou’s recruiting class, while they’ll still have a subpar overall record to the cats.

[MakeItRain]

He's the only other coach on our lifetimes that we can compare him to that's not LHC Bill Snyder.

With the caveat that I know that on field performance isn't everything, it's still the case that the on field performance isn't that different between the two, and it basically boils down to:

We no longer play two of our major rivals and KU is historically bad.

The only game we can lose that people will really care about is KU, and it never really mattered how good or bad they are. 

'Beat KU' is the only real requirement to be a coach at KSU.

And we're not that unique in that regard when it comes to rivalries.

Chingon, it doesn't matter that Prince was the only other coach, it's a shitty comparison, and you know it. It's just as stupid as someone using Snyder's record in '89-'91 to favorably reflect on Klieman's record. Acknowledging that there is no comp and we just have to judge Klieman on his own merits, in this moment, busts the narrative so y'all simply won't do it. Doesn't make forcing this narrative any less fraudulent though.

[nicname]

https://twitter.com/cfbonfox/status/1451263779375775746?s=21

I'd like to see one of these for all the conferences.

What better data are you looking for here to create your narrative? SEC is the minors to the NFL & this fan base is jealous of Mizzou’s recruiting class, while they’ll still have a subpar overall record to the cats.

No narrative involve. Interest.

[sonofdaxjones]

The top of the SEC has coaching staffs, starting with the head coach who recruit like mad men. 

There’s just as much pressure from fans to recruit as there is to win games.  It’s at a whole other level.  That level doesn’t exist across the board in the Big 12.

[420seriouscat69]

The top of the SEC has coaching staffs, starting with the head coach who recruit like mad men. 

There’s just as much pressure from fans to recruit as there is to win games.  It’s at a whole other level.  That level doesn’t exist across the board in the Big 12.

I'm actually ok with that. SEC as a whole and their fans are massive weirdos. crap, we just beat Mississippi St. two years ago on the road. Will take.