Author Topic: the "following a legend" issue  (Read 2003 times)

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Offline pissclams

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the "following a legend" issue
« on: November 21, 2018, 09:58:56 AM »
do you guys think that it's real?
 
i believe most coaches are supremely confident and don't really care about "not wanting to follow a legend" but people always bring it up as something that k-state will need to deal with when/if LHC Bill Snyder ever decides to stop coaching.


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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 10:00:25 AM »
I think getting your ass kicked and underachieving what a grandpa can do is a major concern for Alpha's.

Online meow meow

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 10:03:13 AM »
Lincoln Riley is doing a terrible job at it.

Online star seed 7

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 10:05:56 AM »
Being scared of grandpa is not an alpha trait, jmho
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Offline chum1

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 10:06:20 AM »
Is Bill now purposely tanking games for the good of both his successor and also the entire university?

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 10:25:40 AM »
We should get beatty, he followed a legend and improved ku's talent quite a bit
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Offline TheFormerKCCat

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 12:16:37 PM »
Seriously, this is a real issue. Founder's syndrome is a real thing in organizational dynamics. Sometimes there are exceptions, but largely the leader who follows the founder (legend, etc.) is un- or under-whelmingly successful unless they orchestrate things just right (which includes the founder endorsing - unconditionally - the successor).

The experts all advise for an "interim-CEO/leader" type of a person and I concur. I'd recommend that this person come from the existing staff or from a very "trusted" part of the Snyder coaching tree and be very clear that he will not pursue the long-term gig. (note that I think Jim Leavitt has this type of skillset, he build USF from the ground up and KNOWS what a program needs to build and to sustain - plus I LOVE his defensive-oriented mentality; and for those who don't like him as the long-term HC, it takes him off the table; practical matter, I don't foresee him giving up his gig (at Oregon?) for this type of role)

This will cause some slippage in our already poor current recruiting effort, but it will do loads of good for our organization. The interim should have the full backing of the AD to make ANY changes necessary (including ousting a certain special teams coach/assistant head coach if it's warranted) for the long-term good of the program.

Let's do this! Rip the band-aid off and let's build for the future. I have no idea who the "right" interim or the "right" long-term Head Coach are; the great football minds on this board need to weigh in on that. For me, I'd still love to see Brent Venables from the long-term HC and see if he can do it. (at least it will end all speculation once he gives it a whirl)
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Online wetwillie

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 12:20:17 PM »
A relatively obscure offensive coordinator from Virginia jumped right into the pool with both feet and never looked back, no one is scared of it.
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Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 01:26:41 PM »
A relatively obscure offensive coordinator from Virginia jumped right into the pool with both feet and never looked back, no one is scared of it.
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I think Prince immunized all future coaches from being harmed by Founder's Syndrome

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 01:32:10 PM »
Plus the guy never won a natty and had 2 conference titles in 27 attempts.
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Offline chum1

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 01:43:45 PM »
The entire point of K-State's Leadership Studies program is to poison the world with totally bogus ideas like  that it is an impossible, no win situation to take over for a legend. Snyder was behind the whole thing right from the beginning. He thought that he could scare off any challengers to the throne, rule forever, thus increasing his own legendaryness. That said, yes, following a gigantic legend like Snyder is definitely an impossible, no win situation.

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 01:58:48 PM »
I think it would be impossible to follow Snyder if he retired after 2012 or 2014.  I really don't see it as much of an issue now.

Offline TheFormerKCCat

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 02:27:14 PM »
So much of the "impossibility" of the situation revolves around Coach Snyder's courage. Is he brave enough to totally divest when the time comes? If so, it increases his successor's odds tremendously. BTW, I've taken NONE of my knowledge or info about leadership succession from K-State's Leadership Studies program, it's all been post K-State (some lived and some learned experiences).
I'm in it purely for the entertainment value.

Offline deputy dawg

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 03:12:30 PM »
The entire point of K-State's Leadership Studies program is to poison the world with totally bogus ideas like  that it is an impossible, no win situation to take over for a legend. Snyder was behind the whole thing right from the beginning. He thought that he could scare off any challengers to the throne, rule forever, thus increasing his own legendaryness. That said, yes, following a gigantic legend like Snyder is definitely an impossible, no win situation.

Wow, my post graduate course in the school of business, "organizational behavior" addressed this issue more from the standpoint that the founder let his organization outgrow his ability to manage, and the inability of founders to let go and move on so someone with the skills to manage a more complex organization take over. 

Offline Brock Landers

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 03:55:56 PM »
Plus the guy never won a natty and had 2 conference titles in 27 attempts.

Yeah most of Bill's time here there were only 8 or 10 teams so that's actually below average performance.  What kind of losery coach wouldn't want to try and improve onthat?

Offline kearneymen

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2018, 05:33:32 PM »
I think it would be impossible to follow Snyder if he retired after 2012 or 2014.  I really don't see it as much of an issue now.


I agree, unlike previous years, or when Snyder retired last time, many people are calling for a change and some negative and frankly ugly press has surfaced as a result.  It will never be easy to follow Snyder, but if Taylor gets a good name that engages KSU fans I doubt it will be an issue early on.  After a few years winning will be the judge.


As for Prince, it is still baffling that Wefald, who did a lot of good for KSU, thought that an average offensive coordinator with three years of coordinating experience could replace Snyder or enjoy fan support.  Heck, Virginia wasn’t even good when Prince coached there (21-19 in ACC play during Prince years and 12-12 when Prince was an offensive coordinator).


I think Taylor will be much smarter and get someone with proven head coach or coordinator experience.  Early on people packed the stadium for Prince and they will do it again for a new coach... they just need to relate early and win and fans will follow.

Offline EMAWican

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2018, 07:37:46 PM »
For some prospective coaches it depends on whether they want a stadium and/or highway to eventually be named after them while they're still living.

Offline Mels Fish Bowl

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 08:50:32 AM »
tOSU wanted Lou Holtz, then at Arkansas, to replace Woody Hayes.  Holtz claimed he didn't want to be Hayes' successor and declined the offer.
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Offline 8manpick

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2018, 08:58:20 AM »
Good example from 1965
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Offline chum1

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Re: the "following a legend" issue
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2018, 09:07:15 AM »
1965 preceded K-State's Leadership Studies war of disinformation and propaganda.