Author Topic: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats  (Read 71461 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2925 on: September 14, 2019, 08:18:10 PM »
?s=21

Not that this is compelling, but wouldn't the draw be political and executive experience at the highest level? A foil if you will to our current situation.

It's a joy to listen to Pete communicate. I'm guessing high level executive experience (rolling in international diplomacy) would be thought as something with a short learning curve or as a detriment.

Trump isn't shitty because he had no previous political experience, he's shitty because he's a terrible person. I don't think Biden's experience as VP doesn't close the gap of him being a dull blunder machine. There's no way anyone can hear the two speak and think Biden has a better grasp of anything more than Pete. Hell, at the debate Pete was much more clear and convincing on selling the ACA than Biden was. Also worth noting that he was the VP for a relative political novice.

Offline memphis

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2926 on: September 15, 2019, 12:41:10 AM »
No need to be reductive in why Trump is a terrible president.

Offline steve dave

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2927 on: September 15, 2019, 08:00:39 AM »
lmao


Online michigancat

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2928 on: September 15, 2019, 09:36:10 AM »
lmao

Pretty great thread about that story

?s=19

Offline steve dave

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2929 on: September 15, 2019, 01:16:44 PM »
That was a great read


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Offline 8manpick

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2930 on: September 15, 2019, 01:30:42 PM »
I’m hoping it was all intended as a set-up for the Prince pun at the end
:adios:

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2931 on: September 16, 2019, 12:05:12 PM »
ChiCom Joe going strong!!

He needs to tell Pete to get it right in South Bend before trying to go national.

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2932 on: September 16, 2019, 01:36:19 PM »
It actually happened!

Offline mocat

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2933 on: September 16, 2019, 01:45:58 PM »
 :sdeek:

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2934 on: September 16, 2019, 01:49:37 PM »
Man the close talking yearns at the shrimp bowl over that little anecdote were probably fantastic.   
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Offline steve dave

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2935 on: September 16, 2019, 02:35:02 PM »
It actually happened!

Holy crap, lmao


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2936 on: September 16, 2019, 09:29:36 PM »
So he didn't lie about Corn Pop, but he's deep in the pocket of big pharma

Quote
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) criticized fellow Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden for praising drug companies at a fundraiser.

Sanders asserted that he disagreed with Biden, saying the companies are "greedy, corrupt and engaged in price fixing," in a statement obtained by The Hill.

"At a time when their behavior is literally killing people every day, America needs a president who isn't going to appease and compliment drug companies - we need a president who will take on the pharmaceutical industry - whether they like it or not. When we defeat Donald Trump, that's exactly what we are going to do," the statement said.

The former vice president commended pharmaceutical drug companies in a fundraiser on Saturday, Bloomberg reported.

"By the way, great drug companies out there - except a couple of opioid outfits," Biden said at the event.

Biden and Sanders went head-to-head, along with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), during the Democratic debate Thursday when discussing their plans for health care.

The former vice president has criticized Sanders' "Medicare for All" plan for costing too much, while Sanders defended the plan saying it aligned with other health systems in other countries. Biden instead wants to reform the Affordable Care Act.

Sanders has advocated to decrease the power of drug companies with an aim at bringing down costs for patients.

Offline Spracne

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2937 on: September 16, 2019, 09:33:18 PM »
So, pharmaceutical companies as a class are per se bad? Seems like lazy thinking.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2938 on: September 16, 2019, 09:42:05 PM »
So, pharmaceutical companies as a class are per se bad? Seems like lazy thinking.

Ironic. That's a hell of a leap, but I'm positive you know that.

Offline Spracne

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2939 on: September 16, 2019, 09:47:24 PM »
My comment is critical of Bernie, not you.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 09:56:54 PM by Spracne »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2940 on: September 16, 2019, 10:23:22 PM »
My comment is critical of Bernie, not you.

My comment is in defense of Bernie. His quote about pharmaceutical companies is correct, doesn't mean that they also don't do amazing things for our society, but the motivation of the business component of these companies aren't the same as the scientific researchers. The prices are absolutely fixed and the motivation of the companies are to generate profit. You can't be in the business of generating profit to drive up the stock price and have your modus operandi be to help keep as many people alive as possible, those things contradict.

Presidential candidates, especially a supposed liberal, can't be out here getting chummy with an industry you are being entrusted to regulate, cap profits on.

This all seems really obvious, so much so that I have to be missing your angle here.

Offline Spracne

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2941 on: September 16, 2019, 10:29:34 PM »
My comment is critical of Bernie, not you.

My comment is in defense of Bernie. His quote about pharmaceutical companies is correct, doesn't mean that they also don't do amazing things for our society, but the motivation of the business component of these companies aren't the same as the scientific researchers. The prices are absolutely fixed and the motivation of the companies are to generate profit. You can't be in the business of generating profit to drive up the stock price and have your modus operandi be to help keep as many people alive as possible, those things contradict.

Presidential candidates, especially a supposed liberal, can't be out here getting chummy with an industry you are being entrusted to regulate, cap profits on.

This all seems really obvious, so much so that I have to be missing your angle here.
Private companies are in the business of making profits. With rare exceptions, they owe no duties to the general public other than the duties that every other person and entity owes to the general public. The fault, if any, is with the lawmakers who created and maintain the regulatory and legal environment in which these companies operate. These companies simply are doing the best they can for shareholders within the confines of the current laws.

And yes, many of them are clients. They are like every other business. They do their best to follow the law while maximizing shareholder value. Congress is free to act, but in the absence of action, it's incredulous for Bernie to blame these companies for following the laws as written.

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2942 on: September 16, 2019, 11:43:50 PM »
biden used to be able to speak in a compelling way (ignore the content).

we understand it better now that the american century is over and some of us sound more and more like serbs.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2943 on: September 17, 2019, 12:11:53 AM »
My comment is critical of Bernie, not you.

My comment is in defense of Bernie. His quote about pharmaceutical companies is correct, doesn't mean that they also don't do amazing things for our society, but the motivation of the business component of these companies aren't the same as the scientific researchers. The prices are absolutely fixed and the motivation of the companies are to generate profit. You can't be in the business of generating profit to drive up the stock price and have your modus operandi be to help keep as many people alive as possible, those things contradict.

Presidential candidates, especially a supposed liberal, can't be out here getting chummy with an industry you are being entrusted to regulate, cap profits on.

This all seems really obvious, so much so that I have to be missing your angle here.
Private companies are in the business of making profits. With rare exceptions, they owe no duties to the general public other than the duties that every other person and entity owes to the general public. The fault, if any, is with the lawmakers who created and maintain the regulatory and legal environment in which these companies operate. These companies simply are doing the best they can for shareholders within the confines of the current laws.

And yes, many of them are clients. They are like every other business. They do their best to follow the law while maximizing shareholder value. Congress is free to act, but in the absence of action, it's incredulous for Bernie to blame these companies for following the laws as written.

I agree with all of this, but pharmaceutical companies aren't realtors, they aren't car salesmen, not record executives. They are supposed to be in the business of saving lives, that shouldn't be up for the highest bidder. All health care professionals should be held to the Hippocratic Oath, pharma gets to escape that even though their role in this is just as important as doctors. It is 100% in bounds to question the moral compass of anyone or group of people, who have decided to put a price tag on life.

The laws on pharma have never been restricted in this country, it has happened in our lifetime when the industry made the collective decision that profitability was the most important outcome for them.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2944 on: September 17, 2019, 07:25:03 PM »
Spracs is right. They are in the business of making money. And MIR/Bernie/me are saying that profit motive should not be in health care. Because it is morally repugnant and because no one can “shop” for health care in our system. I distinctly remember that hunter weirdo cat emo Emaw was all excited to shop his pregnant wife around to different hospitals for delivery only to find it impossible to get any price from them or navigate the Byzantine health care insurance “networks.” The entire system at every level is premised on leveraging asymmetrical information and our absurd restrictions on generics to profit off people. 

It sucks crap.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2945 on: September 17, 2019, 07:28:07 PM »
Also, I still can’t get over how MIR thinks Pete is worth supporting. He is the most cynical guy up there. An absolute serial killer.

Also—- https://tyt.com/stories/4vZLCHuQrYE4uKagy0oyMA/22kkCiHxZkbeKfsQZwkvIm
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2946 on: September 17, 2019, 07:33:18 PM »
Also I bet if spracs read ‘The Jungle’ he would roll his eyes and say “this is what the market does when people really want to eat cheap sausage. They aren’t breaking any rules.”

What a world class bootlicker.
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Offline Spracne

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2947 on: September 17, 2019, 07:58:43 PM »
Also I bet if spracs read ‘The Jungle’ he would roll his eyes and say “this is what the market does when people really want to eat cheap sausage. They aren’t breaking any rules.”

What a world class bootlicker.
I have read The Jungle, and I will say that the arc of history is long, but it always bends towards the truth (I vaguely remember someone saying something similar). The whole point of laws and regulations, and really the strength of the American legal system, is that they allow people and businesses to plan their affairs in a productive manner without fear of unknowingly ending up in legal jeopardy. The concept of notice and the ability to rely on laws and regulations are central to the Constitutional promise of due process of law.

I will never fault a business for operating within the boundaries established by Congress, executive agencies, and the federal and state judiciaries. What more can you reasonably demand? Sometimes it takes time for the law to catch up with prevailing public sentiment, but that can be a good thing, too. Bottom line is that your anger should be directed at our lawmakers and not the companies who attempt to maximize profits while abiding by the rules.

And for what it's worth, I agree that fundamental change in our healthcare delivery systems is needed. But for various reasons, some legit and some not, many or most Americans are afraid of what that would mean.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2948 on: September 17, 2019, 08:10:52 PM »
I will never fault a business for operating within the boundaries established by Congress, executive agencies, and the federal and state judiciaries. What more can you reasonably demand? Sometimes it takes time for the law to catch up with prevailing public sentiment, but that can be a good thing, too. Bottom line is that your anger should be directed at our lawmakers and not the companies who attempt to maximize profits while abiding by the rules.

yeesh

I don't even know where to start with this

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #2949 on: September 17, 2019, 08:18:21 PM »
Also I bet if spracs read ‘The Jungle’ he would roll his eyes and say “this is what the market does when people really want to eat cheap sausage. They aren’t breaking any rules.”

What a world class bootlicker.
I have read The Jungle, and I will say that the arc of history is long, but it always bends towards the truth (I vaguely remember someone saying something similar). The whole point of laws and regulations, and really the strength of the American legal system, is that they allow people and businesses to plan their affairs in a productive manner without fear of unknowingly ending up in legal jeopardy. The concept of notice and the ability to rely on laws and regulations are central to the Constitutional promise of due process of law.

I will never fault a business for operating within the boundaries established by Congress, executive agencies, and the federal and state judiciaries. What more can you reasonably demand? Sometimes it takes time for the law to catch up with prevailing public sentiment, but that can be a good thing, too. Bottom line is that your anger should be directed at our lawmakers and not the companies who attempt to maximize profits while abiding by the rules.

And for what it's worth, I agree that fundamental change in our healthcare delivery systems is needed. But for various reasons, some legit and some not, many or most Americans are afraid of what that would mean.

This is completely ignorant of the entire actual history of the labor movement and civil rights movement in the US, but your point that people can’t criticize or shame businesses for practices that are an affront to our conscience if they are legal is also dumb as crap so you’ve also got that going for you.
@bentren