US News Rankings

[waks]

Alright, so I know these rankings are BS but I don't know why they are BS. Could someone that knows more than I do please fill me in.


I mean, there's no way Nebraska is actually a better school than Kansas State, is there?


Dax?

[chum1]

With a couple of exceptions, no one should be beating their chest because they got accepted into a state school.  Anyone who does should be laughed at.

[Cire]

Big 12 north schools are all garbage.

[pissclams]

maybe the writer sucked on some nebraska chick's titays

[sonofdaxjones]

I always read that the U.S. New Rankings were very heavily weighted on survey forms that were sent out to academics, so it's very opinion based.    But these rankings get a lot a publicity even though many academic types say they really don't mean $hit. 

Lets look at ACT scores, if the Board of Regents would ratchet up K-State's entrance requirements a half a notch, the average ACT score of incoming freshman at K-State would go from 24 to 25 or 26 over night.   If K-State (the Board of Regents) were to raise the instate GPA requirement to 2.5 and 22 on the ACT (instead of 2.0 and 21), and ratchet up the loophole around a bad ACT score from top 3rd of high school graduating class to top 10% . . . than the perception of K-State would go up on that alone.   Plus it really wouldn't weed out that many kids.  Come on, if you can't score a 22 on the ACT, and get a 2.5 GPA in reading, writing and math, do you really belong in a 4 year university right out of high school??   (stud football and basketball players being the exception of course).   

Lets look at CU, their entrance requirements are supposed to be really tough, but they've got nearly 25,000 undergraduates.   I can't believe any school of that size doesn't have a copious amount of if/then entrance loopholes. 

Plus we know that a number of Colleges at K-State have pretty strident entrance requirements.  You might be able to get into K-State pretty easily but getting into some of the colleges and being allowed to stay in them is a different story.

[steve dave]

I always read that the U.S. New Rankings were very heavily weighted on survey forms that were sent out to academics, so it's very opinion based.    But these rankings get a lot a publicity even though many academic types say they really don't mean $hit. 

Lets look at ACT scores, if the Board of Regents would ratchet up K-State's entrance requirements a half a notch, the average ACT score of incoming freshman at K-State would go from 24 to 25 or 26 over night.   If K-State (the Board of Regents) were to raise the instate GPA requirement to 2.5 and 22 on the ACT (instead of 2.0 and 21), and ratchet up the loophole around a bad ACT score from top 3rd of high school graduating class to top 10% . . . than the perception of K-State would go up on that alone.   Plus it really wouldn't weed out that many kids.  Come on, if you can't score a 22 on the ACT, and get a 2.5 GPA in reading, writing and math, do you really belong in a 4 year university right out of high school??   (stud football and basketball players being the exception of course).   

Lets look at CU, their entrance requirements are supposed to be really tough, but they've got nearly 25,000 undergraduates.   I can't believe any school of that size doesn't have a copious amount of if/then entrance loopholes. 

Plus we know that a number of Colleges at K-State have pretty strident entrance requirements.  You might be able to get into K-State pretty easily but getting into some of the colleges and being allowed to stay in them is a different story.

Doing any of that would kind of go against what K-State's purpose is as a land grant institution though, right?

[Dr Rick Daris]

I always read that the U.S. New Rankings were very heavily weighted on survey forms that were sent out to academics, so it's very opinion based.    But these rankings get a lot a publicity even though many academic types say they really don't mean $hit. 

Lets look at ACT scores, if the Board of Regents would ratchet up K-State's entrance requirements a half a notch, the average ACT score of incoming freshman at K-State would go from 24 to 25 or 26 over night.   If K-State (the Board of Regents) were to raise the instate GPA requirement to 2.5 and 22 on the ACT (instead of 2.0 and 21), and ratchet up the loophole around a bad ACT score from top 3rd of high school graduating class to top 10% . . . than the perception of K-State would go up on that alone.   Plus it really wouldn't weed out that many kids.  Come on, if you can't score a 22 on the ACT, and get a 2.5 GPA in reading, writing and math, do you really belong in a 4 year university right out of high school??   (stud football and basketball players being the exception of course).   

Lets look at CU, their entrance requirements are supposed to be really tough, but they've got nearly 25,000 undergraduates.   I can't believe any school of that size doesn't have a copious amount of if/then entrance loopholes. 

Plus we know that a number of Colleges at K-State have pretty strident entrance requirements.  You might be able to get into K-State pretty easily but getting into some of the colleges and being allowed to stay in them is a different story.

that act requirement is waived if an in-state student has at least a 2.0 in certain core type classes. as long as you have a 2.0 in those core classes, all you have to do is take the act. score doesn't matter. any Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) can get into kstate.

[hillwalking03]

There is also a research component to it, but I have never found a definitive explanation as to how they use or calculate it. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Yes to a degree.   But other land grants have done it.   A neighbor kid who could have gotten into K-State as an out-of-state student, couldn't get into NC State.  

Daris, according to the K-State website, you can have worse than a 21, but you have to be in the top 1/3rd of your high school graduating class and have a 2.0 GPA.

From a Research Perspective . . . K-State has the highest Carnegie research rating, and it's really picking up steam, sponsored research was up $18 million dollars year over year, to $133 million, with well over $200 million in research expenditures.   K-State ha doubled its sponsored research funding in the last decade.   That's still below schools like Iowa State though, but K-State is making huge strides in that area.   Oh and BSL has picked up multiple large research grants, and the USDA moved another lab from Utah to K-State.

[Pete]

To some extent, the most "elite" private institutions are sort of measure of simply "getting in" to the school, whereas large state schools are a measure of what you did while you were there.  I've worked for some firms who recruited undergrad and grad new-hires from "elite" schools and large state schools alike.  The employers know that they can recruit quality talent off of large state school campuses....that's all the "ranking" that you need.....unless your goal is to become a professor, then you need the proper sheep skin because that's what they value.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Daris, according to the K-State website, you can have worse than a 21, but you have to be in the top 1/3rd of your high school graduating class and have a 2.0 GPA.

you need one of the following...

1)Achieve an ACT score of 21 or above or an SAT (critical reading and math) of 980 or above

2)Rank in the top third of the graduating class at the end of the seventh or eighth semester

3)Complete the precollege curriculum w/ a gpa of 2.0 or above for instate and 2.5 for out of state


#3 on the lists allows every kansas highschool grad w/ a 2.0 or above in certain core classes to get into kstate regardless of their gpa or act score or where they ranked in their graduating class.

[pissclams]

Elite 8.  Elite 8, folks.  Elite 8.

[sonofdaxjones]

Daris, according to the K-State website, you can have worse than a 21, but you have to be in the top 1/3rd of your high school graduating class and have a 2.0 GPA.

you need one of the following...

1)Achieve an ACT score of 21 or above or an SAT (critical reading and math) of 980 or above

2)Rank in the top third of the graduating class at the end of the seventh or eighth semester

3)Complete the precollege curriculum w/ a gpa of 2.0 or above for instate and 2.5 for out of state


#3 on the lists allows every kansas highschool grad w/ a 2.0 or above in certain core classes to get into kstate regardless of their gpa or act score or where they ranked in their graduating class.

Okay

[Dugout DickStone]

Some of these reviews are about playing their game as well.  The Princeton review for example insists on being paid tribute by the institutions who are being reviewed.  The dean of my graduate school, who at the time was the highest paid such dean in the country before he got fired for nailing a student, refused to play ball with Princeton and that dropped my schools rankings out of the teens into the low 20's.  Once a new dean was in place, said school jumped into being on of the top 12 in the world. 

So don't put any faith in any of this junk.  Unless it is to brag and make your colleagues feel inferior.  In which case, hang your big money diploma on the wall, pop your collar and strut around like Van Wilder.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Some of these reviews are about playing their game as well.  The Princeton review for example insists on being paid tribute by the institutions who are being reviewed.  The dean of my graduate school, who at the time was the highest paid such dean in the country before he got fired for nailing a student, refused to play ball with Princeton and that dropped my schools rankings out of the teens into the low 20's.  Once a new dean was in place, said school jumped into being on of the top 12 in the world. 

So don't put any faith in any of this junk.  Unless it is to brag and make your colleagues feel inferior.  In which case, hang your big money diploma on the wall, pop your collar and strut around like Van Wilder.

the place i went to grad school at was ranked something like 9th when i enrolled and then 4th or 5th right after i graduated. i sent an email to all the profs that said "you're welcome" along w/ a link to the new ranking. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Schools have been caught lobbying U.S. News for rankings. 

[Dugout DickStone]

Schools have been caught lobbying U.S. News for rankings. 

I wouldn't even say this is something they try to hide.

[ew2x4]

What Dax said about the individual colleges having strict entrance requirements is true. In Architecture, the average ACT was 27, I think they said. The GPA threshold to get into the Bachelor's degree was 3.2 I think. The GPA required to get in to the grad school was 3.5, I'm pretty sure. So it's not just about getting your foot in the door. You have to maintain fairly high scores or you're out.

[michigancat]

people that went to schools w/ low rankings think they suck, people that went to schools w/ high rankings love them.

[waks]

So don't put any faith in any of this junk.  Unless it is to brag and make your colleagues feel inferior.  In which case, hang your big money diploma on the wall, pop your collar and strut around like Van Wilder.

This is exactly why I want to know.

I always read that the U.S. New Rankings were very heavily weighted on survey forms that were sent out to academics, so it's very opinion based.    But these rankings get a lot a publicity even though many academic types say they really don't mean $hit. 

Lets look at ACT scores, if the Board of Regents would ratchet up K-State's entrance requirements a half a notch, the average ACT score of incoming freshman at K-State would go from 24 to 25 or 26 over night.   If K-State (the Board of Regents) were to raise the instate GPA requirement to 2.5 and 22 on the ACT (instead of 2.0 and 21), and ratchet up the loophole around a bad ACT score from top 3rd of high school graduating class to top 10% . . . than the perception of K-State would go up on that alone.   Plus it really wouldn't weed out that many kids.  Come on, if you can't score a 22 on the ACT, and get a 2.5 GPA in reading, writing and math, do you really belong in a 4 year university right out of high school??   (stud football and basketball players being the exception of course).   

Lets look at CU, their entrance requirements are supposed to be really tough, but they've got nearly 25,000 undergraduates.   I can't believe any school of that size doesn't have a copious amount of if/then entrance loopholes. 

Plus we know that a number of Colleges at K-State have pretty strident entrance requirements.  You might be able to get into K-State pretty easily but getting into some of the colleges and being allowed to stay in them is a different story.

UNL has even easier entrance requirements for in-staters than Kansas State (19 ACT, I believe) yet they're ranked twenty or thirty spots ahead. I feel that it has to be almost 100% political and for other bull crap reasons. For example, I've read that one of the only reasons KU has a better ranking than us is because they grade on a 5 point scale (something almost all of their students despise) and they have the med and law schools in the state. I've also heard that they employ someone whose job is specifically to do things to get them ranked higher in these rankings. I've also read that having a quarter system as opposed to a semester system improves your rankings. Ultimately, it doesn't seem like there's really anything legitimate at all in the rankings.

[chum1]

Given the same set of books and a normal disribution of students, how could there be much of anything to the rankings? 

[Dugout DickStone]

ku's law school can only hurt their rankings.

[hillwalking03]

ku's law school can only hurt their rankings.

   <------- Because its true 

[WillieWatanabe]

It was a college, Baylor University, that paid students it had already accepted to retake the SAT exam in a transparent ploy to boost the average scores it could report. It's colleges that have awarded bonuses to presidents who lift their school a few slots.

http://news.yahoo.com/colleges-obsess-over-rankings-students-shrug-171654887.html

[TheHamburglar]

K-State has the highest Carnegie research rating

This isn't true anymore.  I have no idea what happened, but we are now classified as "Research University with high research" (RU/H).  I believe at one point we were the highest rating (RU/VH), but we aren't currently.