Author Topic: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)  (Read 137658 times)

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1100 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:41 AM »
I equate this to when I twist real hard on a jar lid for a long time then hand it to someone else and they pop it open with ease....sure they opened the jar.

:lol: Did you really just bust out the "well I loosened it for you" excuse? That is perfect! I'm envisioning a Facebook meme of Obama in his mom jeans sweating over a jar of ISIS (or the economy, etc.) before handing it to Trump....
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1101 on: December 21, 2017, 11:34:44 AM »
The media hasn't outright lied about the tax cuts. At least not that I have seen. They are painting them in a negative light and reporting poll results about a lot of people believing they are getting tax increases in a way that a casual observer might read the article and conclude that a lot of people actually are getting an increase, though. The reporting of this issue has been pretty poor.

I really think this whole thing could have been handled much more effectively by the Republicans and Trump. It shouldn't be that difficult to pass a tax cut that is actually a cut for everyone. The fact that some people get a tax increase is really confusing to the general public, and it makes it easy for opponents to sell to their base that they are the ones getting the increase.

this silver piece gets it right, i think. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-are-skeptical-of-the-gop-tax-bill-overall-not-just-whether-theyll-get-a-cut/

people don't like the bill because they see it as an unsustainable raid on the nation's piggy bank with the gains disproportionately going to people other than themselves.  they then transfer that dislike to feel as if they won't get a tax cut because it is cognitively uncomfortable to acknowledge a tangible benefit from something you dislike.  it's not likely that many of those people will change their minds about the bill if they see a little more coming home in their monthly paychecks (as noted many times, many people won't even notice a small plus/minus in their pay, i certainly wouldn't have).  the fairly substantial slice of the electorate that is undecided may swing to favor the cut, though.

i don't think making the cut retroactive would necessarily have been great politics, it definitely would not have been good policy.
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Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1102 on: December 21, 2017, 02:03:44 PM »
I equate this to when I twist real hard on a jar lid for a long time then hand it to someone else and they pop it open with ease....sure they opened the jar.

Did you really just bust out the "well I loosened it for you" excuse? That is perfect! I'm envisioning a Facebook meme of Obama in his mom jeans sweating over a jar of ISIS (or the economy, etc.) before handing it to Trump....
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1103 on: December 21, 2017, 02:20:21 PM »
You are both right.

The 2001 Bush tax cuts resulted in people getting cut a physical check for their 2000 returns.  It was pretty popular and it is easy to see why.  It also is a much better way to stimulate the economy.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1104 on: December 21, 2017, 02:25:26 PM »
i don't think making the cut retroactive would necessarily have been great politics, it definitely would not have been good policy.

I think it would be great politics and agree it wouldn't have been good policy, but I don't really believe good policy is all that important to the republican party right now.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1105 on: December 21, 2017, 07:25:17 PM »
You have a president who can't deliver a message trying to promote a package that will greatly benefit him and his business...And he didn't deliver things like eliminating carried interest and simplifying the code that he promised. What do you expect the public reaction to be? People are smart enough not to fall for the "you get 3% more back" and be like ohhhhhh okay.

This is my favorite thing I think. Cohn (sp?) was on CNBC the other day and said, "yeah, we have tried multiple times to end the carried interest exemption, and the president keeps saying he wants to, but the lobby is just too powerful". Saying this crap on TV rough ridin' blows my mind. Yep, rich people have lots of money and buy politicians and there is nothing we can do about it, but yeah, eff those poor people. We can eliminate all of their crap and no one can do anything about it. Everyone enjoy your $28 a week!!!!!

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1106 on: December 22, 2017, 08:07:04 AM »
You have a president who can't deliver a message trying to promote a package that will greatly benefit him and his business...And he didn't deliver things like eliminating carried interest and simplifying the code that he promised. What do you expect the public reaction to be? People are smart enough not to fall for the "you get 3% more back" and be like ohhhhhh okay.

This is my favorite thing I think. Cohn (sp?) was on CNBC the other day and said, "yeah, we have tried multiple times to end the carried interest exemption, and the president keeps saying he wants to, but the lobby is just too powerful". Saying this crap on TV rough ridin' blows my mind. Yep, rich people have lots of money and buy politicians and there is nothing we can do about it, but yeah, eff those poor people. We can eliminate all of their crap and no one can do anything about it. Everyone enjoy your $28 a week!!!!!

I like the honesty, personally. Both GOP and Dems are absolutely beholden to special interests. Just like the absurd tax break preserved for higher ed.

And keeping an extra $28 a week is a pretty big deal for people who don't make much money. Do you have any idea how condescending you sound when you dismiss that? That amounts to over $1000 more per year and perhaps a 5% or more tax reduction for a poor household. Cant believe you'd smirk at that.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1107 on: December 22, 2017, 08:16:13 AM »
You have a president who can't deliver a message trying to promote a package that will greatly benefit him and his business...And he didn't deliver things like eliminating carried interest and simplifying the code that he promised. What do you expect the public reaction to be? People are smart enough not to fall for the "you get 3% more back" and be like ohhhhhh okay.

This is my favorite thing I think. Cohn (sp?) was on CNBC the other day and said, "yeah, we have tried multiple times to end the carried interest exemption, and the president keeps saying he wants to, but the lobby is just too powerful". Saying this crap on TV rough ridin' blows my mind. Yep, rich people have lots of money and buy politicians and there is nothing we can do about it, but yeah, eff those poor people. We can eliminate all of their crap and no one can do anything about it. Everyone enjoy your $28 a week!!!!!

I like the honesty, personally. Both GOP and Dems are absolutely beholden to special interests. Just like the absurd tax break preserved for higher ed.

And keeping an extra $28 a week is a pretty big deal for people who don't make much money. Do you have any idea how condescending you sound when you dismiss that? That amounts to over $1000 more per year and perhaps a 5% or more tax reduction for a poor household. Cant believe you'd smirk at that.
Poor households aren't keeping that much per paycheck.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1108 on: December 22, 2017, 09:06:19 AM »
KSUW cares about poor people as long as it doesn’t cost him anything.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1109 on: December 22, 2017, 10:18:13 AM »
You have a president who can't deliver a message trying to promote a package that will greatly benefit him and his business...And he didn't deliver things like eliminating carried interest and simplifying the code that he promised. What do you expect the public reaction to be? People are smart enough not to fall for the "you get 3% more back" and be like ohhhhhh okay.

This is my favorite thing I think. Cohn (sp?) was on CNBC the other day and said, "yeah, we have tried multiple times to end the carried interest exemption, and the president keeps saying he wants to, but the lobby is just too powerful". Saying this crap on TV rough ridin' blows my mind. Yep, rich people have lots of money and buy politicians and there is nothing we can do about it, but yeah, eff those poor people. We can eliminate all of their crap and no one can do anything about it. Everyone enjoy your $28 a week!!!!!

I like the honesty, personally. Both GOP and Dems are absolutely beholden to special interests. Just like the absurd tax break preserved for higher ed.

And keeping an extra $28 a week is a pretty big deal for people who don't make much money. Do you have any idea how condescending you sound when you dismiss that? That amounts to over $1000 more per year and perhaps a 5% or more tax reduction for a poor household. Cant believe you'd smirk at that.
Poor households aren't keeping that much per paycheck.

They aren't? Consider 4 scenarios....

Married couple with 2 kids and $30k AGI: -$6,222 (2017), -$7,732 (2018)  A $1,510 (5.03%) "savings"

Married couple with 2 kids and $20k AGI: -$7,616 (2017), -$9,616 (2018)  A $2,000 (10.00%) "savings"

Married couple with 1 kid and $30k AGI: -$2,911 (2017), -3,826 (2018)  A $915 (3.05%) "savings"

Married couple with 1 kid and $20k AGI: -4,400 (2017), -$5,400 (2018)  A $1,000 (5.00%) "savings"

I put "savings" in quotations because these folks already owed less than zero Federal Income Tax. They are eligible for these large "refunds" because the CTC and EITC are fully refundable at these income levels, both in 2017 and 2018. (If you're wondering how these refunds could possibly be this high, the Earned Income Tax Credit is a massive subsidy for poor working families. Go here to run the calculations if you don't believe me. http://www.eitcoutreach.org/help/)

So these savings mean they're getting even more of other peoples' money under the new bill. But I digress. Regardless, every one of the families in the above scenarios is reaping $915 to $2,000 extra under the new plan.

You think any of these families isn't going to notice or appreciate an extra 1-2 thousand dollars a year? :dunno: Or will they be too consumed with class envy that the millionaire paying over $100k in taxes is getting more money back? I think it's going to be the former.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 11:02:03 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1110 on: December 22, 2017, 10:42:37 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1111 on: December 22, 2017, 10:44:18 AM »
He has to concentrate so deeply just to sign his name lol
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1112 on: December 22, 2017, 10:53:46 AM »
He has to concentrate so deeply just to sign his name lol



I actually think his signature kicks serious ass. I would have to concentrate on that, too.

This is a lot closer to my own style of signature - much lazier.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1113 on: December 22, 2017, 10:57:42 AM »
Yes, mine is super lazy
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1114 on: December 22, 2017, 11:11:53 AM »
You have a president who can't deliver a message trying to promote a package that will greatly benefit him and his business...And he didn't deliver things like eliminating carried interest and simplifying the code that he promised. What do you expect the public reaction to be? People are smart enough not to fall for the "you get 3% more back" and be like ohhhhhh okay.

This is my favorite thing I think. Cohn (sp?) was on CNBC the other day and said, "yeah, we have tried multiple times to end the carried interest exemption, and the president keeps saying he wants to, but the lobby is just too powerful". Saying this crap on TV rough ridin' blows my mind. Yep, rich people have lots of money and buy politicians and there is nothing we can do about it, but yeah, eff those poor people. We can eliminate all of their crap and no one can do anything about it. Everyone enjoy your $28 a week!!!!!

I like the honesty, personally. Both GOP and Dems are absolutely beholden to special interests. Just like the absurd tax break preserved for higher ed.

And keeping an extra $28 a week is a pretty big deal for people who don't make much money. Do you have any idea how condescending you sound when you dismiss that? That amounts to over $1000 more per year and perhaps a 5% or more tax reduction for a poor household. Cant believe you'd smirk at that.

I'm not dismissing it at all. I'm happy for those that are getting a break that really need it. It is just bullshit that they keep trying to sell this as a "middle income" tax break yet those "middle income" people are getting the smallest piece of it. How about they do 22% for corporations and give lower income people a bit of a bigger break? Nope, those corporations give money to these corrupt fucks and remember, corporations are "people" so, welp, nothing we can do about it!!!!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1115 on: December 22, 2017, 11:14:34 AM »
You are welcome unmotivated W2 wage earners.  keep grinding

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1116 on: December 22, 2017, 11:47:44 AM »
You have a president who can't deliver a message trying to promote a package that will greatly benefit him and his business...And he didn't deliver things like eliminating carried interest and simplifying the code that he promised. What do you expect the public reaction to be? People are smart enough not to fall for the "you get 3% more back" and be like ohhhhhh okay.

This is my favorite thing I think. Cohn (sp?) was on CNBC the other day and said, "yeah, we have tried multiple times to end the carried interest exemption, and the president keeps saying he wants to, but the lobby is just too powerful". Saying this crap on TV rough ridin' blows my mind. Yep, rich people have lots of money and buy politicians and there is nothing we can do about it, but yeah, eff those poor people. We can eliminate all of their crap and no one can do anything about it. Everyone enjoy your $28 a week!!!!!

I like the honesty, personally. Both GOP and Dems are absolutely beholden to special interests. Just like the absurd tax break preserved for higher ed.

And keeping an extra $28 a week is a pretty big deal for people who don't make much money. Do you have any idea how condescending you sound when you dismiss that? That amounts to over $1000 more per year and perhaps a 5% or more tax reduction for a poor household. Cant believe you'd smirk at that.

I'm not dismissing it at all. I'm happy for those that are getting a break that really need it. It is just bullshit that they keep trying to sell this as a "middle income" tax break yet those "middle income" people are getting the smallest piece of it. How about they do 22% for corporations and give lower income people a bit of a bigger break? Nope, those corporations give money to these corrupt fucks and remember, corporations are "people" so, welp, nothing we can do about it!!!!

Yes, the primary thrust of the bill was reducing corporate taxes. Believe it or not, there used to be (even recently, and even now - privately) bipartisan agreement that our corporate tax rate is absurdly uncompetitive. The GOP decided to do a bill that cut both personal and business taxes and, ironically, the Dems used this as an opportunity to trot out their tired old class warfare screams.

If your complaint is simply that you don't like politicians pointing to a tax break for the middle class because that's not the primary thrust of the bill - ok - but that's what every politician does, every time, with every bill. Weird thing to be upset about.

I feel like we should all be happy we're evening the global playing field on the business front, while likely getting to keep more of our money and padding our 401k's to boot. There really are very few people getting the shaft with this bill. Yes, debt is a valid concern (just incredibly hypocritical coming from liberals), but debt is much more a function of spending than revenue. And besides, revenue is driven more by economic vitality than tax rate, to an extent.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1117 on: December 22, 2017, 12:03:39 PM »
If the U.S. really wanted to bring back corporations we should just go full third-world country and abolish environmental regulations and the minimum wage.  To their credit, Republicans are being consistent in this regard at least.  The big contradiction is trying so hard to keep cheap (non-white) labor sources out of the country.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1118 on: December 22, 2017, 12:05:02 PM »
The income level to phase out the pass through % is too low.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1119 on: December 22, 2017, 12:18:46 PM »
When you've signed as many bankruptcy docs as he has, you get an angry signature like that.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1120 on: December 22, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »
If the U.S. really wanted to bring back corporations we should just go full third-world country and abolish environmental regulations and the minimum wage.  To their credit, Republicans are being consistent in this regard at least.  The big contradiction is trying so hard to keep cheap (non-white) labor sources out of the country.

First LOl at "abolishing the minimum wage." But regardless, the whole point of taking these steps to make America more competitive globally is to help.... Americans. So I don't think that is contradictory in a goals-based sense. Sure, we might encourage even more businesses to come here by flooding the market with cheaper labor, but that seems a bit counterproductive.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1121 on: December 22, 2017, 12:41:18 PM »
If we truly want to be competitive stop rewarding the failed w2's and give them better motivation to be owners.  just my  :th_twocents:

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1122 on: December 22, 2017, 12:45:08 PM »
Just wondering, is it normal to sign legal documents with a Sharpie?

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1123 on: December 22, 2017, 12:58:17 PM »
Just wondering, is it normal to sign legal documents with a Sharpie?

Are you sure that's not a regular pen that just looks bigger in his undersized hand?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #1124 on: December 22, 2017, 01:10:03 PM »
Just wondering, is it normal to sign legal documents with a Sharpie?

Are you sure that's not a regular pen that just looks bigger in his undersized hand?

 :Wha: