Author Topic: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)  (Read 137678 times)

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #175 on: November 03, 2017, 08:39:32 AM »
Restoring the personal exemptions really is the only way they are going to be able to implement this thing without some middle class families getting tax increases. Hopefully that happens. It would be a huge windfall for K-S-U and me both.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #176 on: November 03, 2017, 08:42:24 AM »
It is a great way to balance against deficit concerns, though. I guess they should probably just cap the personal exemption at a certain income level.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #177 on: November 03, 2017, 08:43:29 AM »
Children are really expensive, and important, so I favor a generous deduction for children. One way to make the tax code much fairer would to decrease the child tax credit and restore a portion of the dependent personal exemptions.
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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #178 on: November 03, 2017, 08:43:50 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #179 on: November 03, 2017, 08:45:37 AM »
It is a great way to balance against deficit concerns, though. I guess they should probably just cap the personal exemption at a certain income level.

Or they could just drop some other deductions, lower the child tax credit back to where it was, keep the estate tax, etc.

Online wetwillie

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #180 on: November 03, 2017, 08:53:39 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

We need breeders so we incentivize the behavior
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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #181 on: November 03, 2017, 08:54:28 AM »
I have no idea what the relative impact of all these policies is, but I have to imagine eliminating personal exemptions has a much larger impact than most other measures.

I think we all agree that eliminating the estate tax is pretty dumb though.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #182 on: November 03, 2017, 08:58:06 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

We need breeders so we incentivize the behavior

We really don’t, though. And even if we did, the current bill only encourages breeding among the middle class and lower, which doesn’t make a ton of sense from a policy perspective.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #183 on: November 03, 2017, 08:59:20 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

We need breeders so we incentivize the behavior

If you need tax incentives to have kids you're doing it wrong and should probably just abort instead
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #184 on: November 03, 2017, 09:06:55 AM »
Well Phil, all the tax brackets are better, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Are you really this simple?

Show your work, phil!!!

Weak effort itt on your part, imho.
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #185 on: November 03, 2017, 10:25:44 AM »
I have no idea what the relative impact of all these policies is, but I have to imagine eliminating personal exemptions has a much larger impact than most other measures.

I think we all agree that eliminating the estate tax is pretty dumb though.

The debate over eliminating the estate tax is moronic. Anybody who wants to get around the estate tax can do so by putting their assets in trusts. So all the estate tax really does is (1) severely penalize a few people who are too stupid to properly protect their assets, and (2) require everyone else to hire lawyers and cpas to protect their assets. So with that in mind, why the hell would we keep the estate tax? Repeal it and reduce the tax compliance burden on millions of people while having almost no impact on revenue.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #186 on: November 03, 2017, 10:29:13 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

I'm not asking to be rewarded. I'm asking to not be penalized under this current reform by actually raising my taxes due to stripping away a previously extremely valuable personal exemption. For lower income folks, losing those personal exemptions doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the doubling of the standard deduction more than offsets it. But for higher income folks, our itemized deductions were already comparable to the new standard deduction, so losing the personal exemption for our kids could increase our taxes - when we high wage earners already pay a higher effective tax rate than the vast majority of Americans.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #187 on: November 03, 2017, 10:31:36 AM »
I have no idea what the relative impact of all these policies is, but I have to imagine eliminating personal exemptions has a much larger impact than most other measures.

I think we all agree that eliminating the estate tax is pretty dumb though.

The debate over eliminating the estate tax is moronic. Anybody who wants to get around the estate tax can do so by putting their assets in trusts. So all the estate tax really does is (1) severely penalize a few people who are too stupid to properly protect their assets, and (2) require everyone else to hire lawyers and cpas to protect their assets. So with that in mind, why the hell would we keep the estate tax? Repeal it and reduce the tax compliance burden on millions of people while having almost no impact on revenue.

The estate tax creates about $200 billion in revenue over a 10 year period. It's not much of overall revenue, but it's pretty significant when you are struggling to not increase the deficit by more than $1.5 trillion over the next decade. It's more than 10% of that hole.

Online mocat

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #188 on: November 03, 2017, 10:40:18 AM »
ksuw: not being rewarded =/= being penalized

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #189 on: November 03, 2017, 10:51:38 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

I'm not asking to be rewarded. I'm asking to not be penalized under this current reform by actually raising my taxes due to stripping away a previously extremely valuable personal exemption. For lower income folks, losing those personal exemptions doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the doubling of the standard deduction more than offsets it. But for higher income folks, our itemized deductions were already comparable to the new standard deduction, so losing the personal exemption for our kids could increase our taxes - when we high wage earners already pay a higher effective tax rate than the vast majority of Americans.

Aren't you on record saying the opposite about other deductions?

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #190 on: November 03, 2017, 10:54:15 AM »
I have no idea what the relative impact of all these policies is, but I have to imagine eliminating personal exemptions has a much larger impact than most other measures.

I think we all agree that eliminating the estate tax is pretty dumb though.

The debate over eliminating the estate tax is moronic. Anybody who wants to get around the estate tax can do so by putting their assets in trusts. So all the estate tax really does is (1) severely penalize a few people who are too stupid to properly protect their assets, and (2) require everyone else to hire lawyers and cpas to protect their assets. So with that in mind, why the hell would we keep the estate tax? Repeal it and reduce the tax compliance burden on millions of people while having almost no impact on revenue.

The estate tax creates about $200 billion in revenue over a 10 year period. It's not much of overall revenue, but it's pretty significant when you are struggling to not increase the deficit by more than $1.5 trillion over the next decade. It's more than 10% of that hole.

Damn, $20 billion per year?! I had no idea so many people were falling into that hole. Still, it's a dumb tax for the reasons I've stated. In a way, this actually makes it worse because the government is siphoning away billions simply because people aren't savvy enough to put their assets in trusts.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #191 on: November 03, 2017, 10:59:41 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

I'm not asking to be rewarded. I'm asking to not be penalized under this current reform by actually raising my taxes due to stripping away a previously extremely valuable personal exemption. For lower income folks, losing those personal exemptions doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the doubling of the standard deduction more than offsets it. But for higher income folks, our itemized deductions were already comparable to the new standard deduction, so losing the personal exemption for our kids could increase our taxes - when we high wage earners already pay a higher effective tax rate than the vast majority of Americans.

Aren't you on record saying the opposite about other deductions?

Yes. The difference is that, as I have repeatedly explained, I'm already paying a higher effective tax rate than just about everyone else - over 90% of Americans. There are going to be some winners and losers with any reform, but I don't think it is "fair" to make me a bigger loser when I'm already getting fleeced. But ideas of fairness can be pretty warped when politics are involved.

I can think of one group of people who are getting screwed even worse than me - people like me except that they also live in blue state high tax hellholes with much higher property values. Like me, they were already getting fleeced and they'll fare even worse, but I just don't think the federal government should be subsidizing irresponsible state taxation.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #192 on: November 03, 2017, 11:18:25 AM »
I have no idea what the relative impact of all these policies is, but I have to imagine eliminating personal exemptions has a much larger impact than most other measures.

I think we all agree that eliminating the estate tax is pretty dumb though.

The debate over eliminating the estate tax is moronic. Anybody who wants to get around the estate tax can do so by putting their assets in trusts. So all the estate tax really does is (1) severely penalize a few people who are too stupid to properly protect their assets, and (2) require everyone else to hire lawyers and cpas to protect their assets. So with that in mind, why the hell would we keep the estate tax? Repeal it and reduce the tax compliance burden on millions of people while having almost no impact on revenue.

It doesn't affect millions of Americans.

Online Dugout DickStone

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #193 on: November 03, 2017, 11:20:37 AM »
You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

I'm not asking to be rewarded. I'm asking to not be penalized under this current reform by actually raising my taxes due to stripping away a previously extremely valuable personal exemption. For lower income folks, losing those personal exemptions doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the doubling of the standard deduction more than offsets it. But for higher income folks, our itemized deductions were already comparable to the new standard deduction, so losing the personal exemption for our kids could increase our taxes - when we high wage earners already pay a higher effective tax rate than the vast majority of Americans.

Aren't you on record saying the opposite about other deductions?

Yes. The difference is that, as I have repeatedly explained, I'm already paying a higher effective tax rate than just about everyone else - over 90% of Americans. There are going to be some winners and losers with any reform, but I don't think it is "fair" to make me a bigger loser when I'm already getting fleeced. But ideas of fairness can be pretty warped when politics are involved.

I can think of one group of people who are getting screwed even worse than me - people like me except that they also live in blue state high tax hellholes with much higher property values. Like me, they were already getting fleeced and they'll fare even worse, but I just don't think the federal government should be subsidizing irresponsible state taxation.

Fair enough that you acknowledge that your opinions are self interested.  As they should be.

I am not sure how hard I will get F'd on this new plan but excluding service providers from the LLCs that will not be eligible for the lower pass through rate tells me it will be a nice F'ing

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #194 on: November 03, 2017, 11:22:33 AM »
I have no idea what the relative impact of all these policies is, but I have to imagine eliminating personal exemptions has a much larger impact than most other measures.

I think we all agree that eliminating the estate tax is pretty dumb though.

The debate over eliminating the estate tax is moronic. Anybody who wants to get around the estate tax can do so by putting their assets in trusts. So all the estate tax really does is (1) severely penalize a few people who are too stupid to properly protect their assets, and (2) require everyone else to hire lawyers and cpas to protect their assets. So with that in mind, why the hell would we keep the estate tax? Repeal it and reduce the tax compliance burden on millions of people while having almost no impact on revenue.

The estate tax creates about $200 billion in revenue over a 10 year period. It's not much of overall revenue, but it's pretty significant when you are struggling to not increase the deficit by more than $1.5 trillion over the next decade. It's more than 10% of that hole.

Damn, $20 billion per year?! I had no idea so many people were falling into that hole. Still, it's a dumb tax for the reasons I've stated. In a way, this actually makes it worse because the government is siphoning away billions simply because people aren't savvy enough to put their assets in trusts.

Trusts are handy but they aren’t complete tax shelters. And if they are, your argument seems to be we should limit their use on top of having an estate tax.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #195 on: November 03, 2017, 11:28:19 AM »


You shouldn't be rewarded with lower taxes just because you reproduce

I'm not asking to be rewarded. I'm asking to not be penalized under this current reform by actually raising my taxes due to stripping away a previously extremely valuable personal exemption. For lower income folks, losing those personal exemptions doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the doubling of the standard deduction more than offsets it. But for higher income folks, our itemized deductions were already comparable to the new standard deduction, so losing the personal exemption for our kids could increase our taxes - when we high wage earners already pay a higher effective tax rate than the vast majority of Americans.

Kinda like those who benefit under the ACA aren't asking to be rewarded. They're just asking not to be penalized under this current reform due to stripping away a previously extremely valuable premium tax credit.

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Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #196 on: November 03, 2017, 12:04:13 PM »
Well Phil, all the tax brackets are better, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Are you really this simple?

Show your work, phil!!!

Weak effort itt on your part, imho.
This is your tax bill to prove to everyone it's good for them.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #197 on: November 03, 2017, 12:06:18 PM »

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #198 on: November 03, 2017, 12:08:31 PM »
Deductions/credits should be done for one reason. Influence behavior. Do we have an aging population problem? No? Eliminate child tax credits.

It would be horrible to actually use some tax theory in Washington vs. these bumbledicks rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic and saying "look what we did, we made less brackets" and simples believing them and posting on message boards how great the plan is.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #199 on: November 03, 2017, 01:12:39 PM »
Deductions/credits should be done for one reason. Influence behavior. Do we have an aging population problem? No? Eliminate child tax credits.

It would be horrible to actually use some tax theory in Washington vs. these bumbledicks rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic and saying "look what we did, we made less brackets" and simples believing them and posting on message boards how great the plan is.

I disagree with this fundamentally. I think deductions should be available so that the tax rate you pay reflects your ability to pay. Nobody looks at tax breaks as some sort of incentive to have kids. The idea that ending those breaks will cause people to have less kids is laughable. This is why the elimination of the deduction for medical expenses exceeding 10% of your income is so despicable.