Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

[Rage Against the McKee]

Trans athletes really shouldn't be competing in any sport that regulates drug use. There just isn't a fair way to allow for it.

[420seriouscat69]

Thought about it, decided the advantage wasn't worth jeopardizing the conference championship meet. Pretty much says it all to me. I can't wait until March so we don't have to hear about Lia Thomas from conservatives again, until she loses at the Olympic Trials in 2024.

Weird victory lap.  Nothing he posted there is inaccurate. 

She'll be in the Olympics tho. Wishing for something so the story can go away says it all. It's wrong!

[ChiComCat]

Thought about it, decided the advantage wasn't worth jeopardizing the conference championship meet. Pretty much says it all to me. I can't wait until March so we don't have to hear about Lia Thomas from conservatives again, until she loses at the Olympic Trials in 2024.

Weird victory lap.  Nothing he posted there is inaccurate. 

She'll be in the Olympics tho. Wishing for something so the story can go away says it all. It's wrong!

Then enjoy the victory lap in 2024

[420seriouscat69]

I'm enjoying it now. Just waiting for @catastrophe to come in here and call me transphobic again for not thinking it's fair that a former D1 male swimmer is competing against women now. We'll come full circle then.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

wackster if in a few years Lia decides "meh, i think i'm actually still a dude" and goes back to being a dude and then takes a piece of masking tape and puts it over the "wo" on the women's championship trophy, then you know what man...good call. you really sniffed this one out and i will be the first to applaud you. Aside from that happening...you are making a complete ass of yourself and coming back to this thread to double down is making it so much worse. I promise you Emma Weyant, Erica Sullivan, and Brooke Forde are going to be just fine and this will not hinder their future endeavors in any meaningful way.

In fact if anything is going to negatively impact them, its that they decided to pose for that photo intentionally distancing themselves from Lia. I am quite certain if there is anything that is going to hurt their future prospects its that they decided to stand away from her for the photos which comes off as petty and cruel and does nothing to change the official results of the competition.

[420seriouscat69]

Lol. K. Unfair advantage. Don’t gaf what people do with their lives, I do however give a crap about sports tho and it’s not right. I’m sorry this pisses you off so much with this logical, fair, take.

[Institutional Control]

I agree that she has an unfair advantage.  I might be upset if my daughter was swimming against her. But she isn't, so I don't really care.

[420seriouscat69]

BAC mansplaining to those women on how they should act after a loss vs an unfair competitor who they just saw on the mens team a few years back, really says it all.

[ChiComCat]

Who is he mansplaining to?

[MakeItRain]

The NCAA has sponsored women's sports for exactly 40 years. In 2021 the NCAA awarded 425 team and individual championships to women. Congrats to Lia Thomas for being the first transgender athlete to win a women's NCAA national championship 1 out of over 25,000 women national champions who have won team and or individual championships, not to mention the thousands and thousands of NAIA and NJCAA all time champions.

Now .00004% of all women's national champions have been transgender athletes, someone protect women's sports from what is a very clear attempt at erasure of women.

Also Clay Travis is a very well known long time supporter of women's athletics, his interest in NCAA women's swimming and diving isn't at all sinister. I'm looking forward to his women's tournament breakdown and the segment on his show about Caitlin Clark getting screwed out the national player of the year award.

To be fair, you said you couldn't wait for Lia to lose in the postseason so this could be a non story and everyone else could move on.

Are you confused about the difference between the 2022 NCAA Championships and the 2024 Olympic Trials?

[420seriouscat69]

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

[Spracne]

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

Here we can see the posting of a guy who's clearly "over it."

[MakeItRain]

The NCAA has sponsored women's sports for exactly 40 years. In 2021 the NCAA awarded 425 team and individual championships to women. Congrats to Lia Thomas for being the first transgender athlete to win a women's NCAA national championship 1 out of over 25,000 women national champions who have won team and or individual championships, not to mention the thousands and thousands of NAIA and NJCAA all time champions.

Now .00004% of all women's national champions have been transgender athletes, someone protect women's sports from what is a very clear attempt at erasure of women.

Also Clay Travis is a very well known long time supporter of women's athletics, his interest in NCAA women's swimming and diving isn't at all sinister. I'm looking forward to his women's tournament breakdown and the segment on his show about Caitlin Clark getting screwed out the national player of the year award.

Yes, Mr. Floyd you were murdered today, but think of all the previous days you were not murdered.

Oh man. Thanks for this.

Let's just ignore the fact that your comparison is someone literally getting murdered to someone winning a goddamn swim race, I mean lol wtf and all that but let's ignore this sheer stupidity.

As established Lia Thomas was the first ever trans college athlete to win a women's national championship. There have literally been millions of women's college athletes, there's been one who is a trans woman who has won a national championship, one. Uno. Une. Between 2012 and 2021 alone there were 2910 documented cases of police officers killing, justified or not, black people. Literally as long as policing in this country has existed, they've been killing black people. I'm sure no one would be shocked if the first ever civilian killed by a cop in this country was a runaway slave or a slave who looked at a white woman, or didn't pick tobacco fast enough.

.002% of the United States population identifies as a trans woman. .0008% of the United States population are women's college athletes, less than 2% of that .0008 will win a national championship. Maybe someone, other than mocat, can do that math but it seems to me the odds of their being a transwoman college athletes is microscopic, the odds of a transwoman becoming a NCAA champion is less likely than banking on winning the powerball.

Gonna take a shot in the dark here and guess it's much easier for a black dude to get murdered by a cop than it is for a transwoman to win a NCAA national championship.

As an actual supporter of women's sports I really appreciate your new found support. I hope that support manifests itself in tangible ways outside of chasing unicorns or getting swept up in culture wars on the internet.

[420seriouscat69]

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

Here we can see the posting of a guy who's clearly "over it."

Spracs, I do appreciate your once moderate position, to quickly falling for all things left these days, because dax. It was an odd transformation, but you did it!

[MakeItRain]

Trans athletes really shouldn't be competing in any sport that regulates drug use. There just isn't a fair way to allow for it.

Can you expand on this? Specifically the drug use part.

[Spracne]

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

Here we can see the posting of a guy who's clearly "over it."

Spracs, I do appreciate your once moderate position, to quickly falling for all things left these days, because dax. It was an odd transformation, but you did it!

You don't even know my personal position on this (which has admittedly changed over the course of time). I was merely pointing out you resurrected this thread with the comment that you were "over it now" and then proceeded to demonstrate that you were not, in fact, over it.

[420seriouscat69]

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

Here we can see the posting of a guy who's clearly "over it."

Spracs, I do appreciate your once moderate position, to quickly falling for all things left these days, because dax. It was an odd transformation, but you did it!

You don't even know my personal position on this (which has admittedly changed over the course of time). I was merely pointing out you resurrected this thread with the comment that you were "over it now" and then proceeded to demonstrate that you were not, in fact, over it.

When backed into a corner, I fight back. Mich's response triggered tf out of me. Comparing me to rough ridin' clay travis, because I don't huff all far left fart talking points.

[Kid In the Hall]

[Quick fight intermission]

This is a pretty interesting/nuanced take on the Thomas situation, how ESPN refused to cover it for weeks/months and how that refusal helps amplify goons like Clay Travis. It's about 6-weeks old, but still pertinent.

https://houseofstrauss.substack.com/p/narrated-article-clay-travis-is-your?s=r

[Resume fight]

[MakeItRain]

I agree that she has an unfair advantage.  I might be upset if my daughter was swimming against her. But she isn't, so I don't really care.

What's her unfair advantage?

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

I kinda went into this with my reply to fedor but I want the story to go away because it's 100% a nonstory and no matter how much evidence that's put out there that shows this whole thing has been a manipulation by conservative media to get people to battle needless culture wars, people will willingly or unwillingly continue to talk about this and support legislation that serves no purpose other than continue to marginalize the most maligned and marginalized sector of our society.

Yes, Lia Thomas won the national championship. Does it matter if I tell you that the woman who finished in second is cisgender and she's a freshman and she's likely to put up faster times than Lia Thomas did as a senior as early as next year? Her name is Emma Want she's from Virginia. Someone want to tell me what her unfair disadvantage is? Katie Ledecky is the NCAA record holder in the 500 free, what's her unfair advantage?

Lia Thomas is a once in a generation confluence of events and people are using her to discriminate against a sector of our population. It's heartbreaking and disgusting that so many people are okay with it without attempting to read anything about what happening outside of some tweets.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Why does it have to be the Olympics to set the bar? A lot of NCAA D1 athletes bust their asses for such a chance. Why do you want the story to go away?

Here we can see the posting of a guy who's clearly "over it."

Spracs, I do appreciate your once moderate position, to quickly falling for all things left these days, because dax. It was an odd transformation, but you did it!

You don't even know my personal position on this (which has admittedly changed over the course of time). I was merely pointing out you resurrected this thread with the comment that you were "over it now" and then proceeded to demonstrate that you were not, in fact, over it.

When backed into a corner, I fight back. Mich's response triggered tf out of me. Comparing me to rough ridin' clay travis, because I don't huff all far left fart talking points.

Vladicat08

[IPA4Me]

ESPN and a handful of extra woke gE members taking the contrary approach. Definitely not seeing how this is remotely fair to any of the women involved. I'm even reading trans folk questioning the intent.

[ChiComCat]

I think she probably has an inherent advantage.  I think that it's more important to be inclusive to a marginalized group of people, particularly when it comes to amateur sports and athletes that are supposedly students first.  If we're actually concerned about the sanctity of sports in general or college sports specifically, there are a million more pressing abuses than this one swimmer.  She is largely being used by the right as cover to attack transgender students of all ages and abilities as well as to create fear-mongering that causes outright hateful and transphobic laws like the one in Texas to be passed.  That isn't to say that everyone here that disagrees with her swimming would support that law.

[catastrophe]

Borrowing the concept from a totally separate discussion, but seriously if anyone is questioning “her intent” competing as a female swimmer then the discussion should be about mental health. She could not possibly have expected a warm welcome in the first place, nor that winning a trophy in a women’s event is remotely worth the cost of transitioning. The story is that she is transgender, likes competing in swimming, and happens to be good at it.

Whether its fair to let her compete could be an interesting and productive discussion, but the Clay Travises of the world who always end up pushing coverage about it are not interested in facilitating that discussion.

I’ve already said that if the sport wants to establish an acceptable range of hormone levels (or something like a height or weight requirement like in wrestling) in order to complete, I don’t really have a problem with that. However, if the issue is simply that a specific athlete is both good and trans, then yeah I don’t know what else you call it than transphobic.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Trans athletes really shouldn't be competing in any sport that regulates drug use. There just isn't a fair way to allow for it.

Can you expand on this? Specifically the drug use part.

Trans people take hormones. Non-trans people aren't allowed to do that. Granted, the hormones a female trans athlete takes hinder performance, but that athlete also has a lot of natural hormones due to being born male, and it's impossible to regulate that fairly.

[Spracne]

Trans athletes really shouldn't be competing in any sport that regulates drug use. There just isn't a fair way to allow for it.

Can you expand on this? Specifically the drug use part.

Trans people take hormones. Non-trans people aren't allowed to do that. Granted, the hormones a female trans athlete takes hinder performance, but that athlete also has a lot of natural hormones due to being born male, and it's impossible to regulate that fairly.

Is it?