If you are Smart, you knew we would win: UT ADV

[sys]

you can't boo and high 5 at the same time.  great job by weber of exploiting the social contract again.

[MakeItRain]

I couldn't cheer for a K-State loss, but I don't know what to think. It is what it is, and an absolutely oscar thing to do.

Some advice? This team is in the tourney, enjoy it and look forward to another year.

Probably correct. Now I look forward to that and my new username I guess.

Despite what the gE trolls insist on, oscar is not absolutely safe with simply a tournament appearance.

I'm not trolling, I would be shocked if he makes the tournament and gets canned.

Why do you think this?

Based on expectations established when he was brought back last year. A tourney two years after an AD-approved house cleaning? Come on.

Let's agree to argue about "AD-approved house cleaning." Okay now that's out of the way, no matter whether we make the tournament or not the story of this season has been told. We are returning nice pieces but we're losing our two best players. The fans are either losing faith or have lost faith. The coach is making absurd excuses nearly every time he has a mic in his face. Next year is another season of uncertainty. The media are even circling above looking for a corpse.

All signs point to oscar being is very real trouble right now, getting in with a 11 seed then losing by 9 on a Thursday afternoon in Spokane doesn't change any of this.

sys articulated it better than I did. The team was 5-13 last year. When he didn't get fired then (with a realistic popular hire waiting in the wings) an NCAA tournament appearance this year virtually guarantees his return.

Like, what are you thinking the minimum results to keep his job should be? A top 3 B12 finish and/or a Sweet 16?

I reject the notion that any improvement over 5-13 constitutes enough of an improvement to keep his job. If we are smart enough to evaluate the course of and to project what we see why can't the athletic director do the same? I also reject the absolute knowledge of oscar getting to do what he wants because Currie can't admit his mistake.

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

I think at the end of the season, all of the factors will be evaluated and a decision will be made. Like I said before, I don't think just a tournament appearance will absolutely make him safe.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I still think it is likely this team loses to OU, OSU, and TCU. Do they still make the tournament if they lose all 3?

[renocat]

Another year, maybe, but no contact extension.  Year to year.  Don't produce you are gone.  It will cost us 2.4 million to buy out his contract if we let oscar go.

[sys]

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

we do know he kept him after 5-13.

[Trim]

https://twitter.com/JamarSamuels/status/833071087961382913

[MakeItRain]

Let's agree to argue about "AD-approved house cleaning." Okay now that's out of the way, no matter whether we make the tournament or not the story of this season has been told. We are returning nice pieces but we're losing our two best players. The fans are either losing faith or have lost faith. The coach is making absurd excuses nearly every time he has a mic in his face. Next year is another season of uncertainty. The media are even circling above looking for a corpse.

All signs point to oscar being is very real trouble right now, getting in with a 11 seed then losing by 9 on a Thursday afternoon in Spokane doesn't change any of this.

IIRC, Currie absolutely made some comments that point toward an AD approved roster rebuild. That is completely true IMO and part of the reason that I think any tournament appearance leaves oscar completely safe.

So we're just talking about MF2, at the time we thought oscar and Currie should have worked with him more. Since that happened Marcus has hinted/said? that he should have been dismissed. I think we should use the retrospect offered to us and they should get more credit how this was handled than what we thought two years ago. I didn't want to get bogged down by arguing this because it isn't important to the overall conversation.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I would bet a two year extension wouldn't be his best offer.

i mean, i wouldn't fire him if i was currie, but if he left on his own i'd be skipping down the halls of whatever building he has an office in.

If the world wasn't so complex with human emotions, we could state that Currie let a coach walk before. We could also say Currie didn't call Frank's non-bluff. Maybe we will be able to say Currie doesn't call Weber's real-bluff.

[MakeItRain]

1. Happened in this conference last season.
2. Missing our best 2
3. As much as we didn't think oscar was the right guy, you don't fire your coach just to hire someone else, that someone who may not have even wanted the job.

1.  who?
2.  i don't agree, but even if i did, replacing two players isn't hard.  most teams lose more than that most years.
3.  i violently disagree.

1. Ford
2. Fine agree then, tell me who we have around who will fill the roles of Wes and DJamer, not to mention the points and defensive presence.
3. We'll agree to disagree but that doesn't mean either Currie, AD brand x, or myself thinks Weber is entitled to what you seem to think is nearly blanket immunity.

[michigancat]

I reject the notion that any improvement over 5-13 constitutes enough of an improvement to keep his job. If we are smart enough to evaluate the course of and to project what we see why can't the athletic director do the same? I also reject the absolute knowledge of oscar getting to do what he wants because Currie can't admit his mistake.

I agree, an NCAA tournament after 5-13 constitutes enough improvement though. I've seen enough from oscar that I don't expect a significant dropoff (if any) assuming everyone returns next year.

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

We know he hired oscar immediately after he was fired and kept him after consecutive disastrous seasons. And oscar's five seasons at KSU have been arguably better than his last five at Illinois. Firing oscar after cleanly building an NCAA tournament team seems to contradict every decision Currie has made regarding men's basketball to date. What more information would we need to make a reasonable assumption about Currie's thought process?

[MakeItRain]

I would bet a two year extension wouldn't be his best offer.

i mean, i wouldn't fire him if i was currie, but if he left on his own i'd be skipping down the halls of whatever building he has an office in.

LOL, yes we can agree on this. M-N is out of his goddamned mind.

[michigancat]

Ford was 3-15 last season

[MakeItRain]

I still think it is likely this team loses to OU, OSU, and TCU. Do they still make the tournament if they lose all 3?

Probably

[sys]

osu didn't go to the tournament last year.

i haven't paid any attention to who we already have signed to come in next year.  so maybe we already have people recruited or on the bench, no idea.  i think we could use a juco pg and a decent big.  we don't need to replace iwu with another point forward, just use a more normal lineup.  if they don't get another usable big, i don't hate the idea of playing small/skilled with wade at the 5 a fair bit.  nothing wrong with outscoring people.  wade at the 4 and the no defense, good offense big we have whose name i can't recall could also outscore people.

[MakeItRain]

Ford was 3-15 last season

Jesus, not sure how I just forgot about that, sorry.

Tubby Smith.

[Mixed-Nutz]

That is a lot that goes into it and I haven't done a deep dive. But I believe our preseason kenyon ranking with have a slight up tick. With projected natural development plus it is going to make the assumption that Dean and Sneed usage and minutes rates will go up. Both of them are pretty darn efficient. There is also just a ton of room for improvement based depth.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Ford was 3-15 last season

Jesus, not sure how I just forgot about that, sorry.

Tubby Smith.

Tubby took the Memphis job. He was trying to leave the job ever since he got there.

[michigancat]

Ford was 3-15 last season

Jesus, not sure how I just forgot about that, sorry.

Tubby Smith.

Tubby wasn't fired, they tried to give him a raise.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/memphis-hires-tubby-smith-away-from-texas-tech/

[MakeItRain]

I reject the notion that any improvement over 5-13 constitutes enough of an improvement to keep his job. If we are smart enough to evaluate the course of and to project what we see why can't the athletic director do the same? I also reject the absolute knowledge of oscar getting to do what he wants because Currie can't admit his mistake.

I agree, an NCAA tournament after 5-13 constitutes enough improvement though. I've seen enough from oscar that I don't expect a significant dropoff (if any) assuming everyone returns next year.

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

We know he hired oscar immediately after he was fired and kept him after consecutive disastrous seasons. And oscar's five seasons at KSU have been arguably better than his last five at Illinois. Firing oscar after cleanly building an NCAA tournament team seems to contradict every decision Currie has made regarding men's basketball to date. What more information would we need to make a reasonable assumption about Currie's thought process?

What does his last five years at Illinois have to do with anything? You also have no idea whether or not Currie thinks he made a mistake five years ago, not necessarily in who he hired but his methodology and process. He was a young AD making his first major hire. Why do people think he can't see his mistake and want to be better?

[MakeItRain]

Ford was 3-15 last season

Jesus, not sure how I just forgot about that, sorry.

Tubby Smith.

Tubby wasn't fired, they tried to give him a raise.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/memphis-hires-tubby-smith-away-from-texas-tech/

Minnesota

[MakeItRain]

osu didn't go to the tournament last year.

i haven't paid any attention to who we already have signed to come in next year.  so maybe we already have people recruited or on the bench, no idea.  i think we could use a juco pg and a decent big.  we don't need to replace iwu with another point forward, just use a more normal lineup.  if they don't get another usable big, i don't hate the idea of playing small/skilled with wade at the 5 a fair bit.  nothing wrong with outscoring people.  wade at the 4 and the no defense, good offense big we have whose name i can't recall could also outscore people.

You just described another rebuild, not a complete one but an identity change, again.

[michigancat]

I reject the notion that any improvement over 5-13 constitutes enough of an improvement to keep his job. If we are smart enough to evaluate the course of and to project what we see why can't the athletic director do the same? I also reject the absolute knowledge of oscar getting to do what he wants because Currie can't admit his mistake.

I agree, an NCAA tournament after 5-13 constitutes enough improvement though. I've seen enough from oscar that I don't expect a significant dropoff (if any) assuming everyone returns next year.

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

We know he hired oscar immediately after he was fired and kept him after consecutive disastrous seasons. And oscar's five seasons at KSU have been arguably better than his last five at Illinois. Firing oscar after cleanly building an NCAA tournament team seems to contradict every decision Currie has made regarding men's basketball to date. What more information would we need to make a reasonable assumption about Currie's thought process?

What does his last five years at Illinois have to do with anything? You also have no idea whether or not Currie thinks he made a mistake five years ago, not necessarily in who he hired but his methodology and process. He was a young AD making his first major hire. Why do people think he can't see his mistake and want to be better?

If he really changed, the end of last season would have been the perfect time to admit he made a mistake. No reasonable person could have found last year's results acceptable yet turned around and fired Weber for this year's results. I suppose it's possible Currie had some sort of change of heart this season but it seems very unlikely because I think he's a reasonable person.

[MakeItRain]

I reject the notion that any improvement over 5-13 constitutes enough of an improvement to keep his job. If we are smart enough to evaluate the course of and to project what we see why can't the athletic director do the same? I also reject the absolute knowledge of oscar getting to do what he wants because Currie can't admit his mistake.

I agree, an NCAA tournament after 5-13 constitutes enough improvement though. I've seen enough from oscar that I don't expect a significant dropoff (if any) assuming everyone returns next year.

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

We know he hired oscar immediately after he was fired and kept him after consecutive disastrous seasons. And oscar's five seasons at KSU have been arguably better than his last five at Illinois. Firing oscar after cleanly building an NCAA tournament team seems to contradict every decision Currie has made regarding men's basketball to date. What more information would we need to make a reasonable assumption about Currie's thought process?

What does his last five years at Illinois have to do with anything? You also have no idea whether or not Currie thinks he made a mistake five years ago, not necessarily in who he hired but his methodology and process. He was a young AD making his first major hire. Why do people think he can't see his mistake and want to be better?

If he really changed, the end of last season would have been the perfect time to admit he made a mistake. No reasonable person could have found last year's results acceptable yet turned around and fired Weber for this year's results. I suppose it's possible Currie had some sort of change of heart this season but it seems very unlikely because I think he's a reasonable person.

It would have been acceptable if you were okay with letting the entire back court go at the end of the previous season.

[Powercat Posse]

1. Happened in this conference last season.
2. Missing our best 2
3. As much as we didn't think oscar was the right guy, you don't fire your coach just to hire someone else, that someone who may not have even wanted the job.

1.  who?
2.  i don't agree, but even if i did, replacing two players isn't hard.  most teams lose more than that most years.
3.  i violently disagree.

1. Ford
2. Fine agree then, tell me who we have around who will fill the roles of Wes and DJamer, not to mention the points and defensive presence.
3. We'll agree to disagree but that doesn't mean either Currie, AD brand x, or myself thinks Weber is entitled to what you seem to think is nearly blanket immunity.

2. I think we will be just fine without Wes. Sneed will be better next year. We will have Diarra. Plus 2 starting guards a year older, should be better. Also, Patrick will improve and get more minutes.  His shooting is nice to have to go along with Kam Sneed Barry and Dean

Now losing DJamer hurts. We don't have an inside scorer to replace him

[michigancat]

I reject the notion that any improvement over 5-13 constitutes enough of an improvement to keep his job. If we are smart enough to evaluate the course of and to project what we see why can't the athletic director do the same? I also reject the absolute knowledge of oscar getting to do what he wants because Currie can't admit his mistake.

I agree, an NCAA tournament after 5-13 constitutes enough improvement though. I've seen enough from oscar that I don't expect a significant dropoff (if any) assuming everyone returns next year.

I don't think we have enough knowledge about Currie to be so resolute about what he's going to do. When I evaluate what I think is going to happen I see Currie as brand x athletic director. I think others are placing attributes to him we don't know are true or not.

We know he hired oscar immediately after he was fired and kept him after consecutive disastrous seasons. And oscar's five seasons at KSU have been arguably better than his last five at Illinois. Firing oscar after cleanly building an NCAA tournament team seems to contradict every decision Currie has made regarding men's basketball to date. What more information would we need to make a reasonable assumption about Currie's thought process?

What does his last five years at Illinois have to do with anything? You also have no idea whether or not Currie thinks he made a mistake five years ago, not necessarily in who he hired but his methodology and process. He was a young AD making his first major hire. Why do people think he can't see his mistake and want to be better?

If he really changed, the end of last season would have been the perfect time to admit he made a mistake. No reasonable person could have found last year's results acceptable yet turned around and fired Weber for this year's results. I suppose it's possible Currie had some sort of change of heart this season but it seems very unlikely because I think he's a reasonable person.

It would have been acceptable if you were okay with letting the entire back court go at the end of the previous season.

Hmmmm