"Even in Europe That's A Travel"

[Mixed-Nutz]

This team is much better than last year.

kstate got down to kp 35 at their lowest last year, this team is probably a little better but i don't see that it's "much" better, they weren't that bad last year, and we don't know how this team will end up.


i also am not sure how easy it is to know if ku had an off night defensively or if kstate was very good offensively (not mutually exclusive, obviously).  ku might not be quite as good as normal defensively, especially after losing their big, but they still have pretty good defensive stats.  wish i could see what they were before the kstate game.

I don't think you can take away anything the Cats didn't offensively last night. it was executed at that high of level. Easier to say how bad the offense was against UT. Just looking at the 2fg%. Its seems with this team if you extend pressure they are going have their way with you.

[sys]

it's a complex interaction.  it's just really hard to know much about a single game.  the stats don't tell you much of anything, you'd have to watch the game, and even then, you probably don't really know much.

[The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep]

if we turn out to be good, i will be pissed. otherwise, it is what it is. my guess is we ride this to the nit.

I'm ready to bet someone we'll make the tournament. I haven't clownsuited all of Seattle yet if you want some action.

And if we make the Tournament it won't matter. Having played only who I consider to be the best Big 12 team on the road and the worst one at home, I'm still not sure about this KSU team, but the early signs point to being pretty good.

Maybe KU had an off night, maybe we just played especially well, or maybe we're both top 5 teams. If either of the first two, who cares since we'll probably end up going under .500 in conference. If the last one, who cares since we'll both end up with good seeds in the Tourney.

A team that scored 1.25 points per possession and hit 50% from 3 didn't have an off night. Plus, we shot 33% from 3 and were still in it, so its not like it was some fluke shooting deal. Both teams played really efficient offense.

That said, this is probably not one of Self's better defensive teams, but he doesn't have his normal rim protector. Teams will be able to generate offense against them.

Still, the concern for our Cats comes from finishing games. We should have beat Maryland, we should have beat Texas by double digits, and we arguably could have won last night. This team is much better than last year, but the inability to finish games must be something they prove to do or we simply won't win enough games.

sooo... coaching. yup, thats gonna hurt us all year.

[kso_FAN]

This team is much better than last year.

kstate got down to kp 35 at their lowest last year, this team is probably a little better but i don't see that it's "much" better, they weren't that bad last year, and we don't know how this team will end up.


i also am not sure how easy it is to know if ku had an off night defensively or if kstate was very good offensively (not mutually exclusive, obviously).  ku might not be quite as good as normal defensively, especially after losing their big, but they still have pretty good defensive stats.  wish i could see what they were before the kstate game.

We'll see how it ends up but they shoot it much better and turn it over less and I think they'll maintain those two key components.

[michigancat]

this team will "finish" close games this year, without a doubt. The big question will be if they have more blowout losses or blowout wins.

[sys]

We'll see how it ends up but they shoot it much better and turn it over less and I think they'll maintain those two key components.

do they?  i'm not sure they do, or how you'd come to the conclusion that they do.

[kso_FAN]

We'll see how it ends up but they shoot it much better and turn it over less and I think they'll maintain those two key components.

do they?  i'm not sure they do, or how you'd come to the conclusion that they do.

I compared the stats. Maybe they're incomparable.

[Mixed-Nutz]

this team will "finish" close games this year, without a doubt. The big question will be if they have more blowout losses or blowout wins.

After Saturday all of easy games are done, OU and UT. Two really hard games left with @BU and @WVU.

The rest of our games our kenpom A games or are really close to being A games.

The middle of the conference could be decided by just a couple of points, Staying health and being fortunate is going to be a big part of how people finish with in conference.

[nicname]

this team will "finish" close games this year, without a doubt. The big question will be if they have more blowout losses or blowout wins.

After Saturday all of easy games are done, OU and UT. Two really hard games left with @BU and @WVU.

The rest of our games our kenpom A games or are really close to being A games.

The middle of the conference could be decided by just a couple of points, Staying health and being fortunate is going to be a big part of how people finish with in conference.

Close wins/losses are usually about 50/50.

[kso_FAN]

[sys]

Maybe they're incomparable.

i think they are.  or at least there is limited value in the comparison.  for 3pt shooting, i've seen it referenced that you need a sample size of around 750 attempts before you have more signal than noise in the dataset.  that's for a single shooter, for team stats i'd assume you'd need an even larger sample, although maybe not much larger.

for 2pt shooting and turnovers, you're comparing a '16-'17 team that has amassed those stats against an average opposing defense with a 103.8 rating vs a '15-'16 team that faced a 99.0 mean opposing defense (the opposing defenses are actually less different than i thought they'd be).  maybe there is more value in these latter comparisons than i initially thought.

the ft shooting numbers, which are by far the best measure of shooting ability, are almost identical.

[kso_FAN]

the ft shooting numbers, which are by far the best measure of shooting ability, are almost identical.

YEAR   FT%   3PT%
2008   69.3   32
2009   65.5   35
2010   66.9   36
2011   65.9   37.4
2012   67.1   33.5
2013   68.5   35.8
2014   65.6   33.1
2015   67.6   33.5
2016   68.8   30
2017   68.3   37.4

For K-State at least, I'm not sure your correlation of FT% to 3PT% is that strong.

[sys]

I'm not sure your correlation of FT% to 3PT% is that strong.

it's not, it's just slightly better than 3pt% to 3pt%.  the whole thing is that 3pt% has a huge amount of variance.

[sys]

also, the correlation is among the stats of an individual player.  or don't know if there is a correlation among a team's stats.

[kso_FAN]

also, the correlation is among the stats of an individual player.  or don't know if there is a correlation among a team's stats.

Yeah, I thought that's what you were going for, but you seem to be saying our 38%ish shooting so far won't hold up. I'm not exactly sure why.

[sys]

you seem to be saying our 38%ish shooting so far won't hold up. I'm not exactly sure why.

37.4% now.  i thought it wouldn't hold up (at that level) quite a bit stronger a few games back when it was higher.  i don't think it will hold because 1) i think things in general tend to regress to the mean and 2) because i don't think the individual shooters that kstate has are better than average (except sneed, who i really don't have enough stats on to have valid opinion on and to a lesser extent stokes, who i think is just slightly better than average and also a fairly selective shooter, but that's also not a very stats based opinion), so i don't think it is more likely than not that they will be collectively above average.

at 37.4% though, that's close enough to average that i'm not going to be shocked.  at 40%, i would have been shocked.

[kso_FAN]

at 37.4% though, that's close enough to average that i'm not going to be shocked.  at 40%, i would have been shocked.

That makes sense. FWIW, I never thought 40% was attainable either. But 35-37% does.

Also, its only one game, but to come out of AFH with a TO% of only 12.5% was probably the most significant thing about last night. Last year it was over 30%.

[Mixed-Nutz]

also, the correlation is among the stats of an individual player.  or don't know if there is a correlation among a team's stats.

Yeah, I thought that's what you were going for, but you seem to be saying our 38%ish shooting so far won't hold up. I'm not exactly sure why.

I think a big piece of it is just he offense you are running. In Holberg heydays, I think players shot a higher 3pt% than they would in different offense. They had surplus of looks and were coached to chuck. They we also surrounded by other shooters that created space.

We are running better offense this year the shooting should continue to stay the course.

I also think Berry is going to tick back up. He was 38 for 87 in conference last year and was 50 for 125 his senior year of HS. He is totally capable of following in between the 36%-40% range.

[Shooter Jones]

Mofos are peanut butter and jealous. We are fans of the greatest college basketball program of all time. No one has it better than we do. Of course everyone else is going to be salty when all we do is win. Embrace it.

[deputy dawg]

Mofos are peanut butter and jealous. We are fans of the greatest college basketball program of all time. No one has it better than we do. Of course everyone else is going to be salty when all we do is win. Embrace it.

I take exception to your denigration of the KU fan base.  Those T-shirts cost money, you know.

[nicname]

Mofos are peanut butter and jealous. We are fans of the greatest college basketball program of all time. No one has it better than we do. Of course everyone else is going to be salty when all we do is win. Embrace it.

Imagine if the shoe (walking) was on the other foot. I know I'd be reveling in it.

[ednksu]

Mofos are peanut butter and jealous. We are fans of the greatest college basketball program of all time. No one has it better than we do. Of course everyone else is going to be salty when all we do is win. Embrace it.

Imagine if the shoe (walking) was on the other foot. I know I'd be reveling in it.

I just really enjoy the dichotomy of EVERY loss KU has is due to the refs, their announcers are best known for for the tag line "Oh it's a foooowwwllll ON KU!!!!????!!!!??????" But yet other teams bitching about stuff like this is sour grapes and ultimately it's claimed had no real impact on the game.  Someone on a board or facebook nailed it.  This is why people laugh at KU's streak.  Every other team is automatically 0-1 at the start of conference play and KU is automatically 9-0.  That's a tough hole to climb out of during a conference season.

[nicname]

Mofos are peanut butter and jealous. We are fans of the greatest college basketball program of all time. No one has it better than we do. Of course everyone else is going to be salty when all we do is win. Embrace it.

Imagine if the shoe (walking) was on the other foot. I know I'd be reveling in it.

I just really enjoy the dichotomy of EVERY loss KU has is due to the refs, their announcers are best known for for the tag line "Oh it's a foooowwwllll ON KU!!!!????!!!!??????" But yet other teams bitching about stuff like this is sour grapes and ultimately it's claimed had no real impact on the game.  Someone on a board or facebook nailed it.  This is why people laugh at KU's streak.  Every other team is automatically 0-1 at the start of conference play and KU is automatically 9-0.  That's a tough hole to climb out of during a conference season.

Some dude on the other team going off for a big game and the opposition shooting lights-out for three is usually more prevalent. But yes, they bitch about the refs just like everyone else.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Mofos are peanut butter and jealous. We are fans of the greatest college basketball program of all time. No one has it better than we do. Of course everyone else is going to be salty when all we do is win. Embrace it.

Imagine if the shoe (walking) was on the other foot. I know I'd be reveling in it.

I just really enjoy the dichotomy of EVERY loss KU has is due to the refs, their announcers are best known for for the tag line "Oh it's a foooowwwllll ON KU!!!!????!!!!??????" But yet other teams bitching about stuff like this is sour grapes and ultimately it's claimed had no real impact on the game.  Someone on a board or facebook nailed it.  This is why people laugh at KU's streak.  Every other team is automatically 0-1 at the start of conference play and KU is automatically 9-0.  That's a tough hole to climb out of during a conference season.

That won't always be the case. Bill Self will die eventually.

[ednksu]

So pretty much 100% of the talking heads on the world wide leader in sports, ESPN, agree that K-State got hosed.  Does the bb board have a media/respect thread?