Author Topic: GOP Battledome Trump v Ryan (Read 4965 times)

chuckjames · « **on:** October 10, 2016, 01:07:08 PM »

Since the GOP is in open war today, who's side are you on? Do you want Burkean conservatism with supply side economics to run the GOP or the Nationalist-Populist brand to run it? I really don't care I just got my popcorn and am enjoying the fun.

CNS · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:09:01 PM »

The more down it gets burned, the better. The whole party needs the weeds burned out so that the grass can come back thick and healthy.

gatoveintisiete · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:30:09 PM »

The party needs to be rid of cya 'pubs. D's are good at one thing and it's circling the wagons.

star seed 7 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:31:27 PM »

Ryan will emerge victorious

star seed 7 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:34:35 PM »

On the real tho, as a superlib I still think it's important to have opposition to Democrats, and Ryan is doing the best thing for long term health of the party and country.

gatoveintisiete · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:39:47 PM »

I really can't wait to see these two square off working together in our government, Ryan will have to kowtow to Trump or step down otherwise he will get trucked.

treysolid · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:48:11 PM »

Quote from: gatoveintisiete on October 10, 2016, 01:39:47 PM

I really can't wait to see these two square off working together in our government, Ryan will have to kowtow to Trump or step down otherwise he will get trucked.

You're going to be waiting a very long time. Like, forever.

Rage Against the McKee · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:01:35 PM »

Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on October 10, 2016, 01:31:27 PM

Ryan will emerge victorious

I don't think so. Trump will lose this election, and Ryan and other establishment types will take the blame for it from Trump's base. The republican party is going to turn nationalist-populist.

CNS · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:06:32 PM »

Please. If congress doesn't swing D, Ryan will be hailed a hero.

renocat · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:26:05 PM »

Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on October 10, 2016, 02:01:35 PM

Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on October 10, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
Ryan will emerge victorious

I don't think so. Trump will lose this election, and Ryan and other establishment types will take the blame for it from Trump's base. The republican party is going to turn nationalist-populist.

I don't believe I am agreeing in anyway with Libs, but Ryan must be in a strong position to.stop Hillary. If Trump isn't elected, the party will be taken over from within by disaffected Republicans and transrepublicans. I would like to see Cruz as president of the Senate.

CNS · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:27:56 PM »

Cruz seems to be a much better follower than leader, though.

Rage Against the McKee · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:33:50 PM »

Cruz will be safe. The worst congressmen won't get voted out.

treysolid · « **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on October 10, 2016, 02:33:50 PM

Cruz will be safe. The worst congressmen won't get voted out.

not out of texas, that's for sure.

steve dave · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:56:18 PM »

as a reagan/bush conservative I am all in for ryan to win this thing

Panjandrum · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2016, 03:56:34 PM »

Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on October 10, 2016, 02:01:35 PM

Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on October 10, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
Ryan will emerge victorious

I don't think so. Trump will lose this election, and Ryan and other establishment types will take the blame for it from Trump's base. The republican party is going to turn nationalist-populist.

I think the Tea Party will ultimately be our version of the National Front, and these folks will just migrate over there. They will just dust off a more official name, and you'll see them on more ballots. They may win some seats in a state house or something like that. Maybe some seats in Congress.

I also think it's only a matter of time before a lot of die hard Bernie supporters wander over to the Green Party (or something like it) for good. Again, you may see them take power in some Pacific NW and New England state houses, and they may take a seat in congress here or there, depending on the district.

I think it's just a matter of time before we start to see a multi-party system.

sys · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2016, 04:04:59 PM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on October 10, 2016, 03:56:34 PM

I think it's just a matter of time before we start to see a multi-party system.

that's basically impossible in our political system.

CNS · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2016, 04:12:27 PM »

Agreed. I mean, the pubs are ripe to split yet they won't. The main reason is that whoever split to make a third party would find themselves completely out of the circle of power that allows our system to be a 2 party system.

We would have to completely blow up the private companies that handle the debates, much of the polling that things like the debates are based on, etc.

There is no way, short of some legislation, that would make a third party feasible in this country, and the legislation will never get proposed or passed because two party system.

Rage Against the McKee · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2016, 04:26:40 PM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on October 10, 2016, 03:56:34 PM

Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on October 10, 2016, 02:01:35 PM
Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on October 10, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
Ryan will emerge victorious

I don't think so. Trump will lose this election, and Ryan and other establishment types will take the blame for it from Trump's base. The republican party is going to turn nationalist-populist.

I think the Tea Party will ultimately be our version of the National Front, and these folks will just migrate over there. They will just dust off a more official name, and you'll see them on more ballots. They may win some seats in a state house or something like that. Maybe some seats in Congress.

I also think it's only a matter of time before a lot of die hard Bernie supporters wander over to the Green Party (or something like it) for good. Again, you may see them take power in some Pacific NW and New England state houses, and they may take a seat in congress here or there, depending on the district.

I think it's just a matter of time before we start to see a multi-party system.

Tea Party voters already dominate the republican base. If anyone splits off, it will be the current establishment.

Panjandrum · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2016, 05:33:53 PM »

Quote from: sys on October 10, 2016, 04:04:59 PM

Quote from: Panjandrum on October 10, 2016, 03:56:34 PM
I think it's just a matter of time before we start to see a multi-party system.

that's basically impossible in our political system.

Something is going to change. I think a big part of the disenchantment is being placed in one box vs. another.

I don't think it's coincidence that you see four candidates with traction. I think most people can reconcile being Far-left, center-left, center-right, far-right.

Yes, the system as it stands doesn't really facilitate that, but I think we'll see something in my lifetime.

star seed 7 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2016, 05:46:03 PM »

Well trump is a Mashup of center left and far right and except for the racists he's universally hated as a candidate.

CNS · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2016, 06:24:37 PM »

Heard another gary interview today. He has the most "traction" since perot yet he's sitting on $10M in his campaign fund. Hill and don made 15x that just last month.

Also, he wasn't in the debates because the debate committee(private company) has 10 ppl on its board that make the rules. By design those 10 are always made up of 5 dems and 5 pubs.
Off shoot of same private company runs the specific poll questions that the debate committee bases their debate participation rules from. Gary didn't get to the needed percentage in 10 states because he wasn't offered as a selection in many of those specific polls in those specific states.

The majority of the process is designed, controlled, monitored, and participated in by the two private companies that are the dems and pubs.
If there was any traction made by a third party, it would be traction that was allowed by two multi billion dollar companies that has everything to lose by allowing said traction.

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sys · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2016, 06:45:48 PM »

it's really just math, cns. you could take away all that stuff and it wouldn't matter.

johnson really has no one to blame but himself. he's not a very good candidate.

CNS · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2016, 06:48:53 PM »

I wrote that out less as a complaint about Johnsons chance, and more as an explanation of why your earlier post is correct about third parties not having a chance at gaining traction.

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Kat Kid · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2016, 07:43:33 PM »

Quote from: gatoveintisiete on October 10, 2016, 01:30:09 PM

The party needs to be rid of cya 'pubs. D's are good at one thing and it's circling the wagons.

Yep, if you can say anything about the Democratic Party, it is definitely that it isn't a coalition of a bunch of interest groups with the left, labor and college educated upper middle class moderates all fighting with each other.

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sys · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2016, 07:44:24 PM »

i didn't say third parties have no chance at traction. a third party could rise to replace one of the two current parties. what can't happen is for more than two major parties to exist for long.