Author Topic: Gawker  (Read 6692 times)

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Offline Skipper44

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2016, 06:01:36 PM »
It is used like this all time when someone leaves a biz and starts a competitor. 

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2016, 07:04:09 PM »
His so-called "frivolous" lawsuit managed to make its way to trial and earn a $135 million judgment. Basically, the opposite of a frivalous lawsuit. Frivolous lawsuits result in dismissal orders and, god willimg, santions against attorneys, you rubes.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2016, 07:26:47 PM »
too many to post, but basically anything this dude tweets.

https://twitter.com/samfbiddle

I think it is bad for society of raising capital for lawsuits becomes a new regular investment.


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I think vengeful is a better word than frivolous for the Hulkster's suit

Also, it wasn't only one lawsuit. Thiel funded several. His goal was to either cost them a ton of money or make them go broke. Is that how the legal system should be used?

I don't think we have to worry about too many "media outlets" outing gay billionaires so I'm perfectly okay with shitty Nick Denton and his disgusting business practices being a cautionary tale.

Offline chum1

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2016, 07:59:07 PM »
BAD GUY


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Re: Gawker
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2016, 08:02:52 PM »
Providing victims access to the civil justice system is a real sore spot for the libtards. That and any effort to crush voyeurism and other perverse invasions of personal privacy.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2016, 08:18:58 PM »
BAD GUY



No doubt. Nick Denton is worse.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2016, 08:22:11 PM »
why would someone invest in a frivolous lawsuit?  wouldn't a rational investor only invest in those suits which seem to have merit?

why do people invest in penny stocks?  don't be a dumbass.  investors aren't God and the case having merit verges on immaterial because for many the prospectus will say that at the very least, plan B is to get a settlement.  just because the gawker lawsuit is the vanguard for this new model doesn't mean we need to import the facts of the case when imagining why this is bad.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2016, 08:27:18 PM »
too many to post, but basically anything this dude tweets.

https://twitter.com/samfbiddle

I think it is bad for society of raising capital for lawsuits becomes a new regular investment.


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Would probably reduce bad behavior tho?

I think frivolous lawsuits are bad behavior, so it is a pretty big net negative for me.


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was this case frivolous, in your opinion?

of course not.  but I also don't think Peter Thiel was a noble benefactor searching for justice.  while the targeting of political enemies may also be a potential negative, I don't think that is very likely.  I think an overall rise in lawsuits because capital was searching for a way to get a return would be bad.

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2016, 08:28:21 PM »
It serves two purposes: 1) indemnity for its victims, and 2) bankrupting those who profit by harming people.

Exactly how it's supposed to work.
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Re: Gawker
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2016, 08:29:02 PM »
SUPER STUD WHO PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY LOVES


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2016, 09:36:00 PM »
KK, you are 100% correct, it's just this is the absolute worst case to make the point with.  Denton and Gawker used their war chest and array of on retainer attorneys to bully people they deemed worthy of bullying since their inception. They got sloppy/comfortable and picked on a whale, they literally got swallowed. I don't think we have to worry about this setting the precedent for a wave of similar actions.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2016, 09:42:16 PM »
KK, you are 100% correct, it's just this is the absolute worst case to make the point with.  Denton and Gawker used their war chest and array of on retainer attorneys to bully people they deemed worthy of bullying since their inception. They got sloppy/comfortable and picked on a whale, they literally got swallowed. I don't think we have to worry about this setting the precedent for a wave of similar actions.

I think you missed the part where there is now a company that is starting an investment fund that will provide capital to invest in lawsuits with the hope of returns for investors.  That has very little to do with Gawker/Thiel other than it being the most prominent example and a possible inspiration considering one of the founders has ties to Thiel.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2016, 09:59:57 PM »
I sure did, I'd like to read about that.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2016, 10:13:52 PM »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2016, 10:24:32 PM »
Thank you.

So obviously bringing third party profit into the justice system in this manner is clearly a miscarriage, so I'm not going to argue for it. However, money has tipped the scales for as long as they have existed, in most cases wouldn't this almost constitute a leveling of the playing field?

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2016, 03:45:51 PM »
What's the best news source on the net now that gawker is dead? Twitter?

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2016, 03:46:46 PM »
Buzz feed

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2016, 09:46:36 AM »
KK, you are 100% correct, it's just this is the absolute worst case to make the point with.  Denton and Gawker used their war chest and array of on retainer attorneys to bully people they deemed worthy of bullying since their inception. They got sloppy/comfortable and picked on a whale, they literally got swallowed. I don't think we have to worry about this setting the precedent for a wave of similar actions.

I think you missed the part where there is now a company that is starting an investment fund that will provide capital to invest in lawsuits with the hope of returns for investors.  That has very little to do with Gawker/Thiel other than it being the most prominent example and a possible inspiration considering one of the founders has ties to Thiel.

This is really just the next step in what has already been happening for a long time.

The Equal Access to Justice Act allows for attorney's fees to be paid at some market rate if one wins a lawsuit against the government.  So, there are literally companies set up to sue the federal government, they might sue for like 20 things and bundle them all together, pay a building full of junior attorneys $100 an hour, win just ONE of those 20 suits and get reimbursed $300 an hour for all those hours. 

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2016, 11:12:26 AM »
I don't have much of a problem with the investment into lawsuits issue (and I don't think i'm being a "dumbass").  Sure, investors aren't God, and I didn't mean to imply they were all knowing.  However, I did mean to imply that investors want to see returns on their money, and it doesn't take omniscience to figure out whether or not a suit has any merit. That said, I'm admittedly a bit more litigious than most, especially when it comes to commercial litigation (which are the type of claims legalist appears to bring).  But, my bias aside, I think there are only a limited number of relevant scenarios here:

Scenario 1: Meritless claim that results in settlement. This is the bad scenario.  I think settling is probably plan A, and plan B is actually litigating it and/or taking it to trial, because settlements are quick and cheap and lucrative.  However, if KK's pessimistic viewpoint of this industry is true, settling meritless claims is a stupid decision on the part of the company.  Even outside the third party investment context, settling meritless claims sends a signal to all potential plaintiffs that you can litigate cheaply and quickly against that company and expect a return, no matter the strength of your claim.  So settling meritless claims is already pretty risky behavior.  Adding third party investors just magnifies this risk.  But if a company wants to avoid the nightmare scenario envisioned by KK, spend the money to litigate the damn thing and show plaintiffs and investors that bringing frivolous lawsuits against it are a bad investment of the plaintiff's time and the third party investors' money.  Generally speaking, if a claim really is baseless, it gets booted on a motion to dismiss, or summary judgment.  It can still be costly, but it's better economically than settling everything.  I would venture to say most companies today aren't inclined to settle meritless claims.

Scenario 2: Meritless claims that go to trial.  Defendant wins.  Tough pill to swallow for the corporation, but, as stated above, companies already should (and many times do) defend meritless lawsuits to prevent the same from being brought in the future.

Scenario 3: Claims that may have merit.  Not a bad thing!  A great thing in fact, right?!  Claims that may have merit SHOULD be brought.  Not bringing such claims solely because plaintiffs don't have the time or money to do so is bad and unjust. 

Maybe I'm giving the investment fund too much credit in thinking that they have no interest in investing in the "penny stocks" of the commercial litigation world, but even if they do, so long as companies act economically rational (which companies are prone to do), that type of investment will prove to be fruitless relatively quickly.  So, assuming all parties are rationale and want money (which is safe to assume), the only claims worthy of investment are those that have merit, or at least appear to have merit.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 11:22:25 AM by Dlew12 »


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Re: Gawker
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2016, 03:36:27 PM »
FWIW, there are some pretty strict ethical rules in place when the financier of the litigation is not the client.
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Re: Gawker
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2016, 03:47:31 PM »
I don't have much of a problem with the investment into lawsuits issue (and I don't think i'm being a "dumbass").  Sure, investors aren't God, and I didn't mean to imply they were all knowing.  However, I did mean to imply that investors want to see returns on their money, and it doesn't take omniscience to figure out whether or not a suit has any merit. That said, I'm admittedly a bit more litigious than most, especially when it comes to commercial litigation (which are the type of claims legalist appears to bring).  But, my bias aside, I think there are only a limited number of relevant scenarios here:

Scenario 1: Meritless claim that results in settlement. This is the bad scenario.  I think settling is probably plan A, and plan B is actually litigating it and/or taking it to trial, because settlements are quick and cheap and lucrative.  However, if KK's pessimistic viewpoint of this industry is true, settling meritless claims is a stupid decision on the part of the company.  Even outside the third party investment context, settling meritless claims sends a signal to all potential plaintiffs that you can litigate cheaply and quickly against that company and expect a return, no matter the strength of your claim.  So settling meritless claims is already pretty risky behavior.  Adding third party investors just magnifies this risk.  But if a company wants to avoid the nightmare scenario envisioned by KK, spend the money to litigate the damn thing and show plaintiffs and investors that bringing frivolous lawsuits against it are a bad investment of the plaintiff's time and the third party investors' money.  Generally speaking, if a claim really is baseless, it gets booted on a motion to dismiss, or summary judgment.  It can still be costly, but it's better economically than settling everything.  I would venture to say most companies today aren't inclined to settle meritless claims.

Scenario 2: Meritless claims that go to trial.  Defendant wins.  Tough pill to swallow for the corporation, but, as stated above, companies already should (and many times do) defend meritless lawsuits to prevent the same from being brought in the future.

Scenario 3: Claims that may have merit.  Not a bad thing!  A great thing in fact, right?!  Claims that may have merit SHOULD be brought.  Not bringing such claims solely because plaintiffs don't have the time or money to do so is bad and unjust. 

Maybe I'm giving the investment fund too much credit in thinking that they have no interest in investing in the "penny stocks" of the commercial litigation world, but even if they do, so long as companies act economically rational (which companies are prone to do), that type of investment will prove to be fruitless relatively quickly.  So, assuming all parties are rationale and want money (which is safe to assume), the only claims worthy of investment are those that have merit, or at least appear to have merit.

0% chance anyone read that FWIW
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Re: Gawker
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2016, 04:03:11 PM »
I know I didn't  :th_twocents:

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2016, 05:33:07 AM »
Straight to the bottom.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2016, 08:00:12 AM »
I don't have much of a problem with the investment into lawsuits issue (and I don't think i'm being a "dumbass").  Sure, investors aren't God, and I didn't mean to imply they were all knowing.  However, I did mean to imply that investors want to see returns on their money, and it doesn't take omniscience to figure out whether or not a suit has any merit. That said, I'm admittedly a bit more litigious than most, especially when it comes to commercial litigation (which are the type of claims legalist appears to bring).  But, my bias aside, I think there are only a limited number of relevant scenarios here:

Scenario 1: Meritless claim that results in settlement. This is the bad scenario.  I think settling is probably plan A, and plan B is actually litigating it and/or taking it to trial, because settlements are quick and cheap and lucrative.  However, if KK's pessimistic viewpoint of this industry is true, settling meritless claims is a stupid decision on the part of the company.  Even outside the third party investment context, settling meritless claims sends a signal to all potential plaintiffs that you can litigate cheaply and quickly against that company and expect a return, no matter the strength of your claim.  So settling meritless claims is already pretty risky behavior.  Adding third party investors just magnifies this risk.  But if a company wants to avoid the nightmare scenario envisioned by KK, spend the money to litigate the damn thing and show plaintiffs and investors that bringing frivolous lawsuits against it are a bad investment of the plaintiff's time and the third party investors' money.  Generally speaking, if a claim really is baseless, it gets booted on a motion to dismiss, or summary judgment.  It can still be costly, but it's better economically than settling everything.  I would venture to say most companies today aren't inclined to settle meritless claims.

Scenario 2: Meritless claims that go to trial.  Defendant wins.  Tough pill to swallow for the corporation, but, as stated above, companies already should (and many times do) defend meritless lawsuits to prevent the same from being brought in the future.

Scenario 3: Claims that may have merit.  Not a bad thing!  A great thing in fact, right?!  Claims that may have merit SHOULD be brought.  Not bringing such claims solely because plaintiffs don't have the time or money to do so is bad and unjust. 

Maybe I'm giving the investment fund too much credit in thinking that they have no interest in investing in the "penny stocks" of the commercial litigation world, but even if they do, so long as companies act economically rational (which companies are prone to do), that type of investment will prove to be fruitless relatively quickly.  So, assuming all parties are rationale and want money (which is safe to assume), the only claims worthy of investment are those that have merit, or at least appear to have merit.

I never really thought you were a dumbass.

I talked to another lawyer who made a similar case that you did and said essentially that this isn't fundamentally different than what many firms do now.  I still worry about the implications if a large stream of capital comes in looking for a return.

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Re: Gawker
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2016, 08:10:32 AM »
Have not read any of this, but it seems like class action suits are basically the same thing, lawyers investing in litigation for profit then pay a few million victims $1.75 a piece
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.