Poll

What do you think?  

Steven Avery killed that chick and is right where he should be.
4 (16.7%)
Steven Avery was framed by cops. Is innocent, and should be free.
0 (0%)
Steven Avery probably killed that girl but the cops tampered and a mistrial should have been declared.
16 (66.7%)
We should carpet bomb Wisconsin into dust.
4 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: January 25, 2016, 10:15:33 AM

Author Topic: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)  (Read 9113 times)

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Offline The1BigWillie

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Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« on: January 20, 2016, 10:15:33 AM »
Jesus Christ... "trial"  "declared"


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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 10:16:45 AM »
So obscure
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The Big Train

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 11:02:43 AM »
Good show, pretty disgusting how Ricky D's buddies abuse the law tho

Offline pissclams

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 11:13:52 AM »
seemed pretty long.  also got tired of the one sided production. 


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 09:18:57 PM »
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Cire

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 10:02:31 PM »
LoL


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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 09:52:46 AM »
It could've been like, 4 episodes long. Too many shots of people waddling in and out of court and shots of the junk yard with phone convos over the top that are like:

"yeah...... so......"
(long pause)
"trial starts tuesday don't cha know"
(long pause)
"....................................................ya...................................."

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 10:18:03 AM »
I think cops tampered but considering what was left out of the documentary, people could still find steven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 10:20:23 AM »
The Brendan stuff was way more infuriating than the Steve stuff. If you wanna read about how the cops will force confessions to just clear a case, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307266141/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=33028827728&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10333779166277054272&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4fp00c9vzo_b

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2016, 10:24:53 AM »
What was left out of the documentary ChiCat? 

Offline Cartierfor3

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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2016, 10:27:49 AM »
A good amount of stuff, but I disagree any of it helps the reasonable doubt. Too many wtf with that case (but steve def killed that broad)
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Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2016, 10:38:02 AM »
no one has ever hated a person like Mrs. CF3 hates this creep


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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2016, 10:38:53 AM »
Mocat and I think he diddles kids
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Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2016, 10:54:50 AM »
I haven't watched the last 3 episodes, yet.. but you guys really poiled it for me

Offline Mikeyis4dcats

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2016, 10:57:04 AM »
I voted #3 but it shouldn't have been a mistrial, but a not guilty vote.

Also, much of the "missing evidence" has not been corroborated by sources other than Kratz's interview, FWIW.

Reddit has a good sub on it.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2016, 10:59:30 AM »
A good amount of stuff, but I disagree any of it helps the reasonable doubt. Too many wtf with that case (but steve def killed that broad)

I can see where a jury would find him guilty - I don't know that I would have. Regardless, Steven had a pretty damn good defense team and was found guilty.  I really don't know on what grounds he deserves an appeal.

My issue with the cases is Brendan's incompetent defense team.  He didn't get a fair shake.  Not saying he is innocent or guilty, but that defense team with Len or whoever was brutal.

Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2016, 11:06:32 AM »
A good amount of stuff, but I disagree any of it helps the reasonable doubt. Too many wtf with that case (but steve def killed that broad)

I can see where a jury would find him guilty - I don't know that I would have. Regardless, Steven had a pretty damn good defense team and was found guilty.  I really don't know on what grounds he deserves an appeal.

My issue with the cases is Brendan's incompetent defense team.  He didn't get a fair shake.  Not saying he is innocent or guilty, but that defense team with Len or whoever was brutal.


Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2016, 11:21:20 AM »
What was left out of the documentary ChiCat?

http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/evidenceagainstavery.html


I find this laundry list of prosecution points unconvincing to convict Avery beyond a reasonable doubt for the following reasons: 1) 5 points are character traits implying he could commit such an heinous murder (owning leg irons, some problems with with his girlfriend, pornography in the house, previous animal cruelty involved a bonfire, Avery drew a toture chamber while in prison). This is not hard evidence and most are unpersuasive. Avery was not a model citizen, but there was no evidence presented that he is a brutal killer or rapist. 2) 5 points are circumstantial, not necessarily allowed in the trial, and we do not have the benefit of knowing how the defense dealt with them. These are Brendan helped Avery clean the garage floor, Avery opened a door to Hallback with just a towel on, Avery specifically requested Hallback to come, Avery gave a false name to Auto Trader, Avery used *69 to hide his identity in 2 calls to Hallback). 3) 1 point (The burnt bone fragments were mixed with steel tire belts) has no particular connection to Avery, but maybe, somehow to the unidentified killer. 4) The remaining 3 points are evidence found by investigators (including the thoroughly discredited Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department) who seemed to find evidence whenever they needed it and often weeks afterward. As far as DNA, it was on items that made the prosecutor's case, but not on obvious places (no Hallback DNA on the keys). 5) Brendan's multiple confessions were completely forced and manipulated, not to mention totally unethical. Maybe 10 years ago it was not as well known how often false confession are extracted, but it is today. However, in the public relations war, it was very helpful in convicting Avery. 6) The prosecutor had shifting scenarios of how the murder was committed. First it was in the bedroom, then it was in the garage. 7) There is no story that adds up that Avery committed the murdered. Three examples...First, It would be impossible to clean up such a ghastly dismemberment, but nothing clear cut was found. Second, Avery would not have put a few branches and discarded construction wood on Hallback's car to hide it. Rather he would have used the car crushing machine in the yard. Third, Avery had an industrial incinerator and would not have made a bonfire to dispose of the body. 8) The investigators and the DA hardly investigated other suspects. With the known information, it cannot be proved that Avery did not commit the murder. However, Avery cannot be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, since there is so much doubt, and this is the standard of the law.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2016, 11:30:58 AM »
^tldnr
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Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2016, 11:32:29 AM »
^tldnr

yeah I didn't read the whole thing either. cut and past from comments. I'd like to see one of the aver haters (chicat, etc) argue it though because it started out pretty good.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2016, 11:36:01 AM »
^tldnr

yeah I didn't read the whole thing either. cut and past from comments. I'd like to see one of the aver haters (chicat, etc) argue it though because it started out pretty good.

Don't read the ending - it is revealed that he thinks Avery is innocent because there are smarter ways he could've committed the crime.  Implying that anyone in that family would make consistently smart choices is absolutely absurd.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Making a Murderer: You be the judge. (Spoilers)
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2016, 11:48:08 AM »
Looks pretty flimsy WackyCat08
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