Author Topic: Sensible Gun Measures  (Read 10752 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mocat

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 39042
    • View Profile

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2017, 07:50:50 AM »

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2017, 07:56:59 AM »
I question how closely they looked at it, because there is good evidence that successful suicide rates (the biggest cause of gun deaths) drop when there are fewer guns in circulation. This just dismisses "oh well can't do anything about suicides so that's out."

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2017, 07:59:53 AM »
I like this podcast and found this two part episode really interesting: https://gimletmedia.com/episode/guns/

Offline Phil Titola

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15255
  • He took it out!
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2017, 08:02:05 AM »
That is an interesting read without much conclusion....other countries shootings are low so we can conclude that gun control helps...young people kill young people......no conclusion....

Offline puniraptor

  • Tastemaker
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21335
  • nostalgic reason
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2017, 08:06:16 AM »
it says BIG DATA says dont worry about mass shootings, just normal ones

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2017, 08:13:15 AM »
Any sensible person agrees with that. Just hard to keep people's attention so gun control advocates get louder after crap like this. Gun control may not stop a mass shooting of 50 people, but if it prevented just 1 regular shooting death a day, I'd call that a pretty significant win and worth fighting for.

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2017, 08:18:36 AM »
The more I think about it the more I think the Feds should just start out by imposing a new tax on firearms with the proceeds going into a victims' fund for mass shootings. Should indirectly curtail sales and even if not something good comes out of it. Best of all, no "they're taking our guns" or "shall not be infringed" talk.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2017, 08:23:39 AM »
https://michaelsavage.com/2017/10/04/audio-survivor-tells-savage-she-heard-multiple-shooters/
Wow!

Why don't you contain this b.s. to the conspiracy theory thread? I literally stopped listening to this, five seconds in after the dude dropped the anti-Semitic slur. So this one mystery woman out of 21,000 at this concert was the only one who heard two shooters? I'm willing to bet that bigot Savage planted the call.

It's quite lucrative for scum like Savage and Jones to feed off of non-critical thinking dipshits.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2017, 09:13:15 AM »
This thread has devolved into a libtard meme on gun control.

'grats KSU, yoi win again.
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline Phil Titola

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15255
  • He took it out!
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2017, 09:25:18 AM »
This thread has devolved into a libtard meme on gun control.

'grats KSU, yoi win again.
Asked you for sensible measures and you gave nothing. Shocking.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2017, 09:52:40 AM »
Interesting read

http://amp.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/syndicated-columnists/article177035411.html

I read that yesterday. Very interesting take.

I read that article a couple days ago. It's not very surprising, or satisfying. I don't have any reason to question the numbers. But there's just something very unsatisfying about the "you know, statistically speaking...." sort of argument in the wake of horrific murders. I don't like that argument regarding terrorism, either. For me it comes down to whether we can take meaningful action to stop it.

I don't particularly like guns and don't own any, but I completely understand why they are so popular. They are an integral part of American culture since before our founding. Americans, because of our heritage and history, have always been more resistant than other cultures to oppression and obedience to a powerful government. For millions of people, owning guns is synonymous with freedom and self-reliance.

I don't think the NRA is the sinister boogeyman that MIR and other liberals hyperventilate about, Koch-style. The reason the NRA is so powerful is their millions of members. It isn't the NRA that stopped Democrats from passing any new gun control measures when they had complete, filibuster-proof control of the federal government less than ten years ago (remember that?). And it isn't the NRA that is currently causing red state Senate Democrats like Manchin (WV), McCasklll (MO), and Heitkamp (ND) to keep mum on new gun control measures. They understand that a huge number of Americans in a majority of states don't want knee jerk restrictions on a core Constitutional right. The Dems need at least a few such red state Dems to avoid being completely irrelevant. The NRA simply helps mobilize and give effect to the preferences of those millions of people, like unions (which liberals love). Unlike most unions, membership in the NRA is voluntary.

I'm good with heavily regulating automatic weapons (we already do). I'm good with banning certain gun accessories designed to provide automatic or other war zone functionality (I think we already do that, too?). I'm good with requiring dealers to perform background checks (we already do). I'd be good with looking at possibly expanding the scope of those background checks.

Non-starters for me: a national firearm registry (I don't think it would be accurate, and I think putting every gun owner on a list is a step too close to government confiscation and oppression), requiring gun owners to be treated like dealers and perform background checks every time they want to sell or gift a gun in a private sale (too burdensome with too little benefit), or allowing people to be unilaterally put on "no buy" lists, for mental health or other reasons, without due process of law.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 09:56:03 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Online mocat

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 39042
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2017, 09:55:37 AM »
Agree with your very last point. I think it would discourage people with mental health issues from getting help

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #88 on: October 05, 2017, 09:58:30 AM »
The "take our guns" talking point is just mystifying to me. If you believe in a reality where the American government comes and confiscates everyone's guns, why would having a national registry of dozens of millions (100 million+ maybe?) of people make that significantly easier?

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63768
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #89 on: October 05, 2017, 10:01:26 AM »
Well gun nuts are nuts, it's right there in the name
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #90 on: October 05, 2017, 10:02:45 AM »
The "take our guns" talking point is just mystifying to me. If you believe in a reality where the American government comes and confiscates everyone's guns, why would having a national registry of dozens of millions (100 million+ maybe?) of people make that significantly easier?

You don't think knowing who owns guns would make it easier to confiscate them down the road?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63768
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #91 on: October 05, 2017, 10:10:50 AM »
Registering to vote as a Democrat makes it easier for the trump brownshirts to round up dissenters and agitators!
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63768
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #92 on: October 05, 2017, 10:16:10 AM »
There is no legitimate reason for legal law abiding gun owners to fear a national registry, the only way your guns would be taken away is if they aren't registered.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #93 on: October 05, 2017, 10:17:25 AM »
The "take our guns" talking point is just mystifying to me. If you believe in a reality where the American government comes and confiscates everyone's guns, why would having a national registry of dozens of millions (100 million+ maybe?) of people make that significantly easier?

You don't think knowing who owns guns would make it easier to confiscate them down the road?

Well first of all, they've already got that, which is the NRA membership list. So I think a tyrannical government would start there if they wanted to do this efficiently.

Second, either way you're basically talking guerilla warfare in one of the biggest countries on Earth (obviously we're assuming the seizure is not voluntary otherwise the registry point is moot). I cannot imagine a government trying to attempt that.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #94 on: October 05, 2017, 10:20:32 AM »
The "take our guns" talking point is just mystifying to me. If you believe in a reality where the American government comes and confiscates everyone's guns, why would having a national registry of dozens of millions (100 million+ maybe?) of people make that significantly easier?

You don't think knowing who owns guns would make it easier to confiscate them down the road?

Why would the government want to confiscate your guns if you are holding and using them as prescribed by the legal standard? Do you spend your time hiding your spouse, car, and kids? All of those things are registered.

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #95 on: October 05, 2017, 10:21:55 AM »
Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but the FBI should know every time a gun seller requests a background check on someone. Pretty useful if they want a short list of gun owners.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #96 on: October 05, 2017, 11:37:07 AM »
Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but the FBI should know every time a gun seller requests a background check on someone. Pretty useful if they want a short list of gun owners.

As I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, background checks for gun purchases are not saved.

I don't think national confiscation of guns is likely, but I also don't think it is a deranged fantasy a few decades down the road. I do agree, however, that if we actually get to the point where the government is forcefully confiscating guns, that means we've got much bigger problems.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Gooch

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9492
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #97 on: October 05, 2017, 11:57:40 AM »
If you have a CCL they don't even do the FB I check. The last pistol I bought took 15 minutes curb to curb (airport smack lingo) for the entire transaction. It took longer for them to round someone up to walk it to the door for me than to fill out paperwork and pay.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #98 on: October 05, 2017, 12:08:42 PM »
Interesting read

http://amp.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/syndicated-columnists/article177035411.html

I read that yesterday. Very interesting take.

I mean, this quote was pretty dumb:

Quote
Almost no proposed restriction would make it meaningfully harder for people with guns on hand to use them.

Wouldn't most proposed restrictions make it more difficult for many people to not have guns on hand?

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: Sensible Gun Measures
« Reply #99 on: October 05, 2017, 12:21:46 PM »
If you have a CCL they don't even do the FB I check. The last pistol I bought took 15 minutes curb to curb (airport smack lingo) for the entire transaction. It took longer for them to round someone up to walk it to the door for me than to fill out paperwork and pay.

Well that's kind of moot for my argument since they've got your info already from the CCL.