Mass Shooting in San Bernardino: 2 shooters and a guy with a warrant

[Emo EMAW]

I agree that it doesn't go far enough I'd love to hear more about it subverting the process and it having a net negative impact.

With whom are you agreeing with here?

With the poster who so eloquently said "executive action is stupid." It was obviously tongue in cheek as I have expressed some issue with the executive order as well but for the complete opposite reason. Now that we have dealt with that particular distraction with something super obvious, can we move on to the main event which is "it subverting the process and it having a net negative impact?"

Who was that? 

[lopakman]

 

[Pendergast]

Thank you for that. No offense but I'm not reading those pro gun sites. A few comments and questions.

1. You mentioned that the ban on these class III items are local in nature, so I'm confused on the effect of the executive order.
2. The sign off is complete horse crap and ripe for abuses. If you think for instance me living in a highly rural area with a percentage of african american citizens at roughly one percent is as likely to get signed off on as let's say the sheriff's cousin with a minor criminal history of drug or alcohol offenses then you are just not being honest. (you being the generic reader not you personally, pendergast, I don't want to get hung up on that)
3. Since the sign off system can be manipulated isn't it better to just have these people's prints on record anyway? I mean who in the eff needs a silencer?
4. The gun trust thing is odd and confusing and I have no idea how it's legal.

1. The order effectively lifts any impromptu bans by Law Enforcement officials who refuse to sign the application for an NFA item
2. Agreed
3. I'm not sure personally, I don't have a huge problem with it, the gun trust phenomenon is only recent in nature, regarding silencers, I'll just say I disagree, they make target shooting much more fun, and protect your ears, most gun enthusiasts develop hearing issues
4. It was ingenious actually, Trusts allow you to do many things to protect yourself and your wealth, you should look into one

[Tobias]

affluenza kid should've looked into a driver's license trust

[MakeItRain]

I agree that it doesn't go far enough I'd love to hear more about it subverting the process and it having a net negative impact.

With whom are you agreeing with here?

With the poster who so eloquently said "executive action is stupid." It was obviously tongue in cheek as I have expressed some issue with the executive order as well but for the complete opposite reason. Now that we have dealt with that particular distraction with something super obvious, can we move on to the main event which is "it subverting the process and it having a net negative impact?"

Who was that?

Distraction attempt #4, I knew you wouldn't let me down, you wanna keep going?

[ednksu]

For those actually interested, I'm never quite sure who just wishes to argue and who might find information interesting...

An NFA (National Firearms Act) or Class III item (there are many names and words used) is an Item described within the NFA as prohibited unless you go through a lengthy process to get a stamp or license for the item (from short barreled weapons, to automatic weapons made before 19-something, to silencers, etc.).  In many states, NFA items are prohibited, in Red states, they are typically allowed.  The process involves a $200 fee, fingerprinting at a local Law Enforcement office, sign off by your local high-ranking Law Enforcement Official, and 6 to 18 months of waiting while the Bureau of ATF (and really big fires) processes the paperwork and does a stringent background check.

In many areas that an NFA item is otherwise legal, the local high-ranking Law Enforcement Official may simply refuse to sign your paperwork, meaning you may not apply for the item.  To subvert this, creating a Trust or Gun Trust has become very popular.  As the Trust is not a person, the process was made simpler by eliminating finger printing and the local Law Enforcement sign off.

For obvious reasons the ATF did not like this, so they have been considering changes (ATF 41F).  That change was finalized with this Executive order.  The general change is, the complete elimination of the Law Enforcement sign off for individual applicants, and that the Trust creator and anyone in the Trust intending to use the NFA item must submit fingerprints, photo ID, etc. so that a background check can be implemented.  Thus making NFA items accessible in many more areas (without a trust), while not restricting them in any new areas.  Thusly it can be viewed as a win for Pro-Gun persons.

This is all a general summation, please research further if you would like precise details.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/11/26/setting-nfa-gun-trust/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/foghorn/breaking-atf-issues-final-ruling-on-nfa-trusts-requires-fingerprints-but-eliminates-cleo-sign-off/

Edit: the most common items are silencers, and short barreled rifles, there is active legislation that will most likely not pass, but would eliminate silencers from the NFA

Holy crap lots of misdirection in this post.  At least you got NFA items right. 

[Pendergast]

Misdirection?

[sonofdaxjones]

No one should own anything I fear.

[ednksu]

Misdirection?

"a wrong or incorrect direction, guidance, or instruction."


Many
Lengthy
Prohibited
many areas -->simply refuse

[Pendergast]

Your definition does not fit your accusation.  And for eff's sake I gave a general description for anyone unaware of the change for discussion purposes.  You're tilting at windmills.

[ednksu]

Your definition does not fit your accusation.  And for eff's sake I gave a general description for anyone unaware of the change for discussion purposes.  You're tilting at windmills.

No you're making it seem like NFA items are banned in many states and it is an lengthy arduous process to get them.  That is unequivocally false, save a handful of states.  The biggest issue with NFA delays was the massive surge in processing requests because *the Obamas* and has been a nonissue for about a year now. About 7 states really ban NFA items and the shall issue is being challenged.  The hyperbole in your "informative" post is laden with agenda instead of facts.  I'm tilting at windmills you've created.

[DQ12]

like, chill out edn.

[Pendergast]

Maybe outright banned in 7 states; however, not all NFA items are treated the same in every state.  Many states restrict varying amounts of the items if they do not ban all NFA items.  Hence, you need to look up the definition of "false" and "unequivocal" in order to use them properly.

Further, if waiting 6 to 18 months to obtain an item, that is already made, and usually displayed to you before purchase, is not lengthy, then Webster needs to be alerted.  And while 18 months is based on personal experience, here's a graph showing it's within a year nearly all of the time for impartiality sake:

http://www.nfatracker.com/TrendGraphAll.aspx

You will note, that E-filing has helped tremendously, that changes nothing; however, regarding your tripe.

Let's say you get lucky, it takes 30 to 60 days to receive an item that was ready to go when you bought it (good rough ridin' luck).  It's still "lengthy".  The longest wait for a firearm in the country is 10 days, so minimum 300% times that is by definition, "lengthy".  That word is terrible, I must stop using it.

Therefore, the windmills, or lies, however you want to characterize them, are your own.

[ednksu]

Maybe outright banned in 7 states; however, not all NFA items are treated the same in every state.  Many states restrict varying amounts of the items if they do not ban all NFA items.  Hence, you need to look up the definition of "false" and "unequivocal" in order to use them properly.

Further, if waiting 6 to 18 months to obtain an item, that is already made, and usually displayed to you before purchase, is not lengthy, then Webster needs to be alerted.  And while 18 months is based on personal experience, here's a graph showing it's within a year nearly all of the time for impartiality sake:

http://www.nfatracker.com/TrendGraphAll.aspx

You will note, that E-filing has helped tremendously, that changes nothing; however, regarding your tripe.

Let's say you get lucky, it takes 30 to 60 days to receive an item that was ready to go when you bought it (good rough ridin' luck).  It's still "lengthy".  The longest wait for a firearm in the country is 10 days, so minimum 300% times that is by definition, "lengthy".  That word is terrible, I must stop using it.

Therefore, the windmills, or lies, however you want to characterize them, are your own.

You keep acting like a form 4 is a lengthy process when it's clearly not.  The length of process is a direct result of fear mongering by the NRA and is directly caused by fear mongering from Sandy Hook.  You can't expect a system that has functioned very well for decades to adapt to a politically driven "bank run." So I don't have any sympathy for you, especially when it's mostly resolved now.  But yet you're still using it in a supposedly informational post to drive your agenda.  Yeah it bother me when people misrepresent the truth in order to further their agenda.  Just the same way it bothers me when a gun grabber talks about banning features as a meaningful component of gun control.  It's a bullshit tactic that has no place in a reasonable discussion. If you wanted to be fair in your post you should have laid out the entire truth instead of the components that fit what you want to say is all. 

And by the way, your graph clearly shows its no where near a year for any process, for impartiality sake.

[8manpick]

Edn is quite literally the worst. At one time, I think bubbles said he would push p1k3 over on his barstool if he saw him in Aggieville. I think I'd do the same to ednksu

[star seed 7]

Pike is fantastic to pak with tho

[p1k3]

Edn is quite literally the worst. At one time, I think bubbles said he would push p1k3 over on his barstool if he saw him in Aggieville. I think I'd do the same to ednksu

Jeez. What a douche

[gatoveintisiete]

I'm not reading any of this crap if it doesn't make the repository, so take that into consideration and post hard.

[8manpick]

Edn is quite literally the worst. At one time, I think bubbles said he would push p1k3 over on his barstool if he saw him in Aggieville. I think I'd do the same to ednksu

Jeez. What a douche

So, who's your sock?

[ednksu]

Edn is quite literally the worst. At one time, I think bubbles said he would push p1k3 over on his barstool if he saw him in Aggieville. I think I'd do the same to ednksu

Jeez. What a douche

So, who's your sock?

Lots of anger issues. Please seek counseling.

[star seed 7]

Edn is quite literally the worst. At one time, I think bubbles said he would push p1k3 over on his barstool if he saw him in Aggieville. I think I'd do the same to ednksu

Jeez. What a douche

So, who's your sock?

Is pike Tubesock? 

[gatoveintisiet]

eff no!

[star seed 7]

That's a relief

[DQ12]

hmm...

This reminds me of the time Bubbles said he was going to push....MR BREAD off a barstool!

...

[Dugout DickStone]

take it to the who I would push off of a barstool if I saw them in the 'ville thread