Mass Shooting in San Bernardino: 2 shooters and a guy with a warrant

[ednksu]

can someone explain to me why the distinction between "holiday party" and "christmas party" really matters?

@sys

it appears i was mistaken -- the business insider article i read seems to have overstated the amount contributed by the firearm industry.  the article from which you got your chart (quora?) estimates that roughly 13% comes from the gun industry, which isn't "nothing," but is much less than i assumed.

because it can add to the narrative that Christians are under attack or a target in America

[Emo EMAW]

It would kind of make sense that this is what happened if: 1. shooter was part of an isolated cell.  I have heard radio interviews where Homeland ppl say that these type of cells aren't connected to larger plans, just trained and sent out to cause an incindent to incite fear.  and 2. I have also heard interviews by govt ppl saying that ISIS seems to want to plan attacks that are somewhat random seeming.  They want to maximize the feeling of insecurity, and evidently feel like attacking what seems like random targets, rather than just a bunch of military/govt related stuff, would do that.

nope, doesn't make sense.  driving into la and shooting people somewhere where lots of people congregate makes sense.  shooting coworkers in a conference room in some random health center in san bernadino doesn't terrify anyone out of traveling, using mass transit, taking a vacation to an urban center, going to restaurants, sports events, concerts, etc.

It made me question the dude I've seen in the parking lot praying in the rain.

[CNS]

Splitting hairs, sys

[sys]

Splitting hairs, sys

not at all.  the reason paris got 20x more attention than san bernadino is not the body count.  it's paris v san bernadino.

[Dugout DickStone]

It would kind of make sense that this is what happened if: 1. shooter was part of an isolated cell.  I have heard radio interviews where Homeland ppl say that these type of cells aren't connected to larger plans, just trained and sent out to cause an incindent to incite fear.  and 2. I have also heard interviews by govt ppl saying that ISIS seems to want to plan attacks that are somewhat random seeming.  They want to maximize the feeling of insecurity, and evidently feel like attacking what seems like random targets, rather than just a bunch of military/govt related stuff, would do that.

nope, doesn't make sense.  driving into la and shooting people somewhere where lots of people congregate makes sense.  shooting coworkers in a conference room in some random health center in san bernadino doesn't terrify anyone out of traveling, using mass transit, taking a vacation to an urban center, going to restaurants, sports events, concerts, etc.

But human nature kicks in.  This guy was some broke dik weirdo who couldn't help himself and when he decided it was time to go out, he wanted to crack at Chris in HR who wouldn't give him time off to go snow boarding with his buddies even though it didn't exert max public terror.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

It would kind of make sense that this is what happened if: 1. shooter was part of an isolated cell.  I have heard radio interviews where Homeland ppl say that these type of cells aren't connected to larger plans, just trained and sent out to cause an incindent to incite fear.  and 2. I have also heard interviews by govt ppl saying that ISIS seems to want to plan attacks that are somewhat random seeming.  They want to maximize the feeling of insecurity, and evidently feel like attacking what seems like random targets, rather than just a bunch of military/govt related stuff, would do that.

nope, doesn't make sense.  driving into la and shooting people somewhere where lots of people congregate makes sense.  shooting coworkers in a conference room in some random health center in san bernadino doesn't terrify anyone out of traveling, using mass transit, taking a vacation to an urban center, going to restaurants, sports events, concerts, etc.

It sends a message that you're not safe anywhere - even "boring" places. That seems like a pretty good terrorist objective (plus, you get to kill a buncha coworkers you probably don't like in your shitty low-paying government job).

[CNS]

Two birds, one crazy stone

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

The thing that's so extra mumped up about this shooting is these people deliberately orphaning their own child. How mumped up is that? I mean, if you've got kids, shouldn't you at least flip a coin to decide which parent stays behind for the kids? Or if you really want to Jihad with your loved one, don't you at least wait until the kids are off to college?

[michigancat]

I think mental illness may have been a factor in addition to everything already mentioned.

[sys]

It sends a message that you're not safe anywhere - even "boring" places. That seems like a pretty good terrorist objective (plus, you get to kill a buncha coworkers you probably don't like in your shitty low-paying government job).

i'm at work right now.  not even the slightest bit terrified.

i'll be in paris in a couple months.  i don't know for sure, but i expect that i'll be a little more on edge than i would have been otherwise.  i'm also almost sure that enhanced security will negatively impact my enjoyment of my time there.

[star seed 7]

I think mental illness may have been a factor in addition to everything already mentioned.

Only applies to whites

[Emo EMAW]

The thing that's so extra mumped up about this shooting is these people deliberately orphaning their own child. How mumped up is that? I mean, if you've got kids, shouldn't you at least flip a coin to decide which parent stays behind for the kids? Or if you really want to Jihad with your loved one, don't you at least wait until the kids are off to college?

I bet these people were the ones I learned about in the Kids thread that thought they were great parents.  Or they didnt' want to have kids and ended up hating it.  Something like that.  So really three birds.

[Dugout DickStone]

It sends a message that you're not safe anywhere - even "boring" places. That seems like a pretty good terrorist objective (plus, you get to kill a buncha coworkers you probably don't like in your shitty low-paying government job).

i'm at work right now.  not even the slightest bit terrified.

i'll be in paris in a couple months.  i don't know for sure, but i expect that i'll be a little more on edge than i would have been otherwise.  i'm also almost sure that enhanced security will negatively impact my enjoyment of my time there.

That's how you fanning brag your trip to Paris folks.

[DQ12]

can someone explain to me why the distinction between "holiday party" and "christmas party" really matters?

@sys

it appears i was mistaken -- the business insider article i read seems to have overstated the amount contributed by the firearm industry.  the article from which you got your chart (quora?) estimates that roughly 13% comes from the gun industry, which isn't "nothing," but is much less than i assumed.

because it can add to the narrative that Christians are under attack or a target in America

maybe i'm not a "holiday party" expert, but i always assumed that among the "holidays" being celebrated were judeo christian holidays, in addition to more secular ones.

[sys]

i'm at work right now.  not even the slightest bit terrified.

i'll be in paris in a couple months.  i don't know for sure, but i expect that i'll be a little more on edge than i would have been otherwise.  i'm also almost sure that enhanced security will negatively impact my enjoyment of my time there.

That's how you fanning brag your trip to Paris folks.

 

[ednksu]

can someone explain to me why the distinction between "holiday party" and "christmas party" really matters?

@sys

it appears i was mistaken -- the business insider article i read seems to have overstated the amount contributed by the firearm industry.  the article from which you got your chart (quora?) estimates that roughly 13% comes from the gun industry, which isn't "nothing," but is much less than i assumed.

because it can add to the narrative that Christians are under attack or a target in America

maybe i'm not a "holiday party" expert, but i always assumed that among the "holidays" being celebrated were judeo christian holidays, in addition to more secular ones.

Not quite what I mean.  We all agree that Holiday et al usually includes Christmas.  But look at the "war on Christians" narrative, even what we see here, and the fear/desire is that Christians are being persecuted because of their faith or that in general america is turning anti-Christian.  Starbucks cups, nativity displays at town hall, Christmas tress, etc etc.  Hell you see an outcropping of this theory when people complain about the number of Christians coming in from Syrian refugees being disproportionately low, ergo an example of discrimination against Christians.  For the narrative to "work" these Christians have to be under threat from the state and external forces, whether Starbucks or retailers, having terrorists target something specifically Christmas....oh man that would make their day.

[michigancat]

4th amendment doesn't have a huge lobby that could lose a lot of money if it's changed/ignored.

this is stupid and lazy.  the nra isn't a moneyed interest.  they have money because gun ownership is something that is important to a relatively large number of people in this country.  the money is following the opinion, not the other way around.

You are absolutely right that gun owners' opinions are very important (and the driving force), but it's extremely naive to think the NRA is not influenced by manufacturers interested in protecting sales.

Regardless, the reason people aren't as passionate about the 4th amendment as they are the 2nd is because of a shiny toy being sold.

[8manpick]

Only the lower half of the low-mediums think there is a war on Christmas

[DQ12]

4th amendment doesn't have a huge lobby that could lose a lot of money if it's changed/ignored.

this is stupid and lazy.  the nra isn't a moneyed interest.  they have money because gun ownership is something that is important to a relatively large number of people in this country.  the money is following the opinion, not the other way around.

You are absolutely right that gun owners' opinions are very important (and the driving force), but it's extremely naive to think the NRA is not influenced by manufacturers interested in protecting sales.

Regardless, the reason people aren't as passionate about the 4th amendment as they are the 2nd is because of a shiny toy being sold.

plus people really don't give a crap about the 4th amendment (but it's one of my favorites!).

[Emo EMAW]

4th amendment doesn't have a huge lobby that could lose a lot of money if it's changed/ignored.

this is stupid and lazy.  the nra isn't a moneyed interest.  they have money because gun ownership is something that is important to a relatively large number of people in this country.  the money is following the opinion, not the other way around.

You are absolutely right that gun owners' opinions are very important (and the driving force), but it's extremely naive to think the NRA is not influenced by manufacturers interested in protecting sales.

Regardless, the reason people aren't as passionate about the 4th amendment as they are the 2nd is because of a shiny toy being sold.

Sales of guns to NRA members who very much want those guns and that's why they are buying them.  No matter where the money is coming from (and it's the gun owner, to be clear), the NRA is ultimately protecting the interests of the gun owners.

[michigancat]

4th amendment doesn't have a huge lobby that could lose a lot of money if it's changed/ignored.

this is stupid and lazy.  the nra isn't a moneyed interest.  they have money because gun ownership is something that is important to a relatively large number of people in this country.  the money is following the opinion, not the other way around.

You are absolutely right that gun owners' opinions are very important (and the driving force), but it's extremely naive to think the NRA is not influenced by manufacturers interested in protecting sales.

Regardless, the reason people aren't as passionate about the 4th amendment as they are the 2nd is because of a shiny toy being sold.

Sales of guns to NRA members who very much want those guns and that's why they are buying them.  No matter where the money is coming from (and it's the gun owner, to be clear), the NRA is ultimately protecting the interests of the gun owners.

yeah no crap

[star seed 7]

Well, what gun owners think is their best interests (they are wrong)

[DQ12]

Well, what gun owners think is their best interests (they are wrong)

do you know what's in their best interest?

[Emo EMAW]

Well, what gun owners think is their best interests (they are wrong)

do you know what's in their best interest?

Liberals love to tell others, and force unto them, what they believe is in their best interests.

[ednksu]

The NRA does not speak for me or my interests.  The national NRA is working against the long term safety of gun rights in this country.