Author Topic: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .  (Read 616 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« on: November 16, 2015, 06:05:44 PM »
just so we can get this out of the Paris thread.

Now to start off with, EDN is going to go into a long screed about how Yugoslavia was doomed to fail and how the various factions had and have hated each other for years.  All of which was and is totally understood by anyone with a half a brain since the conflict re-erupted again in the early 90's into the phases that lead to the ultimate break-up of the country.

Now lets talk about how the U.S. and NATO expedited or some cases protracted that break up and all the terrible things that were done. 

Jane's Defense did an excellent job of outlining how drugs financed the Albanians and please note the ties to NATO member Turkey:

http://balkania.tripod.com/resources/terrorism/kla-drugs.html#a25

Congressional Investigation into Iranian Arms Shipments into Bosnia

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-105hrpt804/html/CRPT-105hrpt804.htm

Quote
The Clinton Administration failed to inform
Congress about its decision to allow Iranian arms to transit
Croatia into Bosnia.
 

Clear support by the Clinton Administration of rival factions within the country.  Factions were repeatedly engaged in their own atrocities and trying to spur U.S./NATO involvement 

CIA support of the KLA:

Quote
American intelligence agents have admitted they helped to train the Kosovo Liberation Army before NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. The disclosure angered some European diplomats, who said this had undermined moves for a political solution to the conflict between Serbs and Albanians. Central Intelligence Agency officers were ceasefire monitors in Kosovo in 1998 and 1999, developing ties with the KLA and giving American military training manuals and field advice on fighting the Yugoslav army and Serbian police.

Quote
"It was purely the Albanian diaspora helping their brothers," said Florin Krasniqi, a New York builder and one of the KLA's biggest financiers. He described how sniper rifles were exported from America using a loophole in federal law that allowed them to be shipped to "hunting clubs". Armour-piercing Barratt rifles made their way to the KLA's "hunting club" in Albania.

Agim Ceku, the KLA commander in the latter stages of the conflict, had established American contacts through his work in the Croatian army, which had been modernised with the help of Military Professional Resources Inc, an American company specialising in military training and procurement. This company's personnel were in Kosovo, along with others from a similar company, Dyncorps, that helped in the American-backed programme for the Bosnian army.

https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/192/38782.html  (as reported in the London Times)

Quote
Weapons flown in during the spring of 1995 were to turn up only a fortnight later in the besieged and demilitarised enclave at Srebrenica. When these shipments were noticed, Americans pressured UNPROFOR to rewrite reports, and when Norwegian officials protested about the flights, they were reportedly threatened into silence.

Quote
Iranian and Afghan veterans' training camps had also been identified in Bosnia. Later, in the Dayton Accords of November 1995, the stipulation appeared that all foreign forces be withdrawn. This was a deliberate attempt to cleanse Bosnia of Iranian-run training camps. The CIA's main opponents in Bosnia were now the mojahedin fighters and their Iranian trainers - whom the Pentagon had been helping to supply months earlier.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/03/koso-m16.html


Those are just a few examples.  We haven't even gotten into the NATO Bombing.   But in EDN Whack-a-doodle land the U.S. and U.S. intelligence agencies had no involvement and this was all a natural political movement and conflict that ultimately resolved itself.   Which is total nonsense, the U.S. military and intelligence agencies as well as NATO members had their hands all over this process.








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« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 07:40:16 PM by sonofdaxjones »

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2015, 07:00:08 PM »
Quote
"I know a terrorist when I see one and these men are terrorists,"
  U.S. Special Envoy to the Balkans Robert Gelbard when discussing the KLA.

Just a good old fashioned naturally occurring breakup of a country . . . with a few twists and turns:

Quote
Albanian separatism in Kosovo and Metohija was formally characterized as a "jihad" in October 1998 at an annual international Islamic conference in Pakistan.

Quote
Nonetheless, the 25,000 strong KLA continued to receive official NATO/U.S. arms and training support and, at the talks in Rambouillet, France, then Secretary of State Madeleine Albright shook hands with "freedom fighter" Hashim Thaci, a KLA leader. As this was taking place, Europol (the European Police Organization based in The Hague) was preparing a scathing report on the connection between the KLA and international drug gangs. Even Robert Gelbard, America's special envoy to Bosnia, officially described the KLA as Islamic terrorists.
  (Wall Street Journal 11-1-01)



Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 07:13:08 PM »
Quote
"The Bosnian war was the first major test of the West's resolve in the post-Cold War era, and one that it unambiguously failed.... Into this already complicated situation came the ultimate 'wild card', the United States of America, the world's only superpower. A small group at the head of America's foreign policy elite intervened covertly in what it had previously called 'Europe's problem'.... Its easy answer for Bosnia's ills was 'lift and strike' - re-arm the Bosniaks (mostly Bosnian Muslims) and Croats and bomb the Serbs. At first arms were sent to Bosnia via Croatia, but the Croats were reluctant to arm the Bosnian army with sophisticated weapons, so America took it upon itself to deliver arms directly to the Bosnian Muslim Army - the ABiH. These covert air drops ['Black Flights'] began at the start of 1995. The most well-documented were the drops at Tuzla in the north of Bosnia, where they were observed by members of the UN Nordic Battalion stationed close to the dropping zone.... Nato had been manipulated to allow the US to conduct its own unilateral policy in the Balkans. The air drops were only the tip of the iceberg. A team of retired US officers planned the bloody Croatian 'liberation' of the Kraijina and the subsequent invasion of western Bosnia by the Croatian Army in the summer of 1995. ....  Senior European negotiators believe that with US backing the war could have ended two years earlier, but US desire to see the Serbs punished meant that they instead encouraged the Bosnian Government to continue fighting. The price in human terms? Over 15,000 dead and nearly 600,000 refugees."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/1390536.stm

Yep, just a natural series of geo-political events with no outside influences, particularly note the lack of action by the United States.


Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2015, 08:17:26 PM »
Another example of good old home grown nationalism and self preservation devoid of outside influence.

Quote
Military analysts in Zagreb agree the beefing up of Croatia's fighting forces was facilitated by the country's financial sponsors abroad, mainly Germany and rich Croatians in exile, and an apparently tacit agreement among NATO nations to allow $1.3 billion of weapons to be smuggled into the country.

Quote
Many of the Croatian officers engaged in the August offensive that wrested the Krajina from the Serbs in just a few days had attended courses given by 15 former U.S. Army generals, colonels and master sergeants.

The Americans have been working as consultants to the Croatian armed forces since last November, apparently with the tacit approval of the State Department.

A spokesman for the American group insisted the presence of the retired U.S. military men was strictly in a non-combat capacity designed "to help Croatia reorganize its army along democraticlines."

Western diplomats believe the flow of arms and the presence of American advisers were part of a strategy masterminded by Washington and Bonn in the belief that a more powerful Croatia would force Bosnian Serbs to seek a negotiated settlement

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-08-20/news/9508200215_1_croatia-krajina-forces




Offline ednksu

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2015, 08:33:45 PM »
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2015, 08:33:59 PM »
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2015, 09:07:14 PM »
Both of you need a hobby.

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Offline ednksu

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 09:12:08 PM »
Both of you need a hobby.

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BRUCEKETBALL!!!!!   :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu:
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Yugoslavia: Just for EDN . . .
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 10:20:53 PM »
But EDN said it was all just the culmination of natural political events that were inevitable, well, that, and lot of Western meddling and NATO bombs.