The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look

[DQ12]

i don't think the author was trying to condemn a self-promotion of whiteness.  i think she was trying to identify an incipient trend in which white americans perceive themselves to be, and act as if they are, one cohesive racial or ethnic group among many, rather than a default lack of race or ethnicity.

Yeah and they're having difficulty dealing with other ethnic groups talking about "white people" as "white people" have generally talked about other ethnic groups. I mean dlew automatically views someone identifying "white people" as a group being synonymous with "oppressor", and the article didn't mention oppression at all.

lol no - i was giving an explanation for why "white people" may have a completely understandable (and non-threatening) reason to acknowledge their status as "white" when the article treats it as some kind of foreboding omen.

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

[catastrophe]

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

I find that pretty thought provoking, and it is actually my main takeaway from the article.  I am used to seeing myself as just a guy who doesn't really have much of a culture or affinity group.  I'm pretty uncomfortable with the thought of being lumped in with other white people for anything really other than statistical data.

[michigancat]

i don't think the author was trying to condemn a self-promotion of whiteness.  i think she was trying to identify an incipient trend in which white americans perceive themselves to be, and act as if they are, one cohesive racial or ethnic group among many, rather than a default lack of race or ethnicity.

Yeah and they're having difficulty dealing with other ethnic groups talking about "white people" as "white people" have generally talked about other ethnic groups. I mean dlew automatically views someone identifying "white people" as a group being synonymous with "oppressor", and the article didn't mention oppression at all.

lol no - i was giving an explanation for why "white people" may have a completely understandable (and non-threatening) reason to acknowledge their status as "white" when the article treats it as some kind of foreboding omen.

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

well I think you nailed it - most of the wypipo stereotypes are pretty negative and we don't want to be associated with them.

I still think it's fair that when we discuss things like the Starbucks arrest or BBQ Becky or Permit Patty we should acknowledge what's happening and understand that even if we don't behave like those folks, "white people" have been doing things like this (and much worse) for years and really don't have the reverse happen.  It's a positive that we're being called out and mocked for this type of nonsense, even if it might hurt a lot of "innocent" white feelings.

[CHONGS]

White is the default culture

[michigancat]

https://twitter.com/rrroooiiirrr/status/1010794943240171520

[star seed 7]

White is the default culture

 

[DQ12]

i don't think the author was trying to condemn a self-promotion of whiteness.  i think she was trying to identify an incipient trend in which white americans perceive themselves to be, and act as if they are, one cohesive racial or ethnic group among many, rather than a default lack of race or ethnicity.

Yeah and they're having difficulty dealing with other ethnic groups talking about "white people" as "white people" have generally talked about other ethnic groups. I mean dlew automatically views someone identifying "white people" as a group being synonymous with "oppressor", and the article didn't mention oppression at all.

lol no - i was giving an explanation for why "white people" may have a completely understandable (and non-threatening) reason to acknowledge their status as "white" when the article treats it as some kind of foreboding omen.

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

well I think you nailed it - most of the wypipo stereotypes are pretty negative and we don't want to be associated with them.

I still think it's fair that when we discuss things like the Starbucks arrest or BBQ Becky or Permit Patty we should acknowledge what's happening and understand that even if we don't behave like those folks, "white people" have been doing things like this (and much worse) for years and really don't have the reverse happen. It's a positive that we're being called out and mocked for this type of nonsense, even if it might hurt a lot of "innocent" white feelings.

But isn't that just racial stereotyping? 

[michigancat]

i don't think the author was trying to condemn a self-promotion of whiteness.  i think she was trying to identify an incipient trend in which white americans perceive themselves to be, and act as if they are, one cohesive racial or ethnic group among many, rather than a default lack of race or ethnicity.

Yeah and they're having difficulty dealing with other ethnic groups talking about "white people" as "white people" have generally talked about other ethnic groups. I mean dlew automatically views someone identifying "white people" as a group being synonymous with "oppressor", and the article didn't mention oppression at all.

lol no - i was giving an explanation for why "white people" may have a completely understandable (and non-threatening) reason to acknowledge their status as "white" when the article treats it as some kind of foreboding omen.

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

well I think you nailed it - most of the wypipo stereotypes are pretty negative and we don't want to be associated with them.

I still think it's fair that when we discuss things like the Starbucks arrest or BBQ Becky or Permit Patty we should acknowledge what's happening and understand that even if we don't behave like those folks, "white people" have been doing things like this (and much worse) for years and really don't have the reverse happen. It's a positive that we're being called out and mocked for this type of nonsense, even if it might hurt a lot of "innocent" white feelings.

But isn't that just racial stereotyping? 

Not sure how you took that. Saying something like "white people have been calling the police on minorities for bullshit reasons for years" seems like it could be statistically verified.

[catastrophe]

Yea, but when you say stuff like that it is either meaningless or intended to ascribe the behavior to the entire group.

If I say Mexicans have been raping for years, or black people have been murdering for years, those can also be statistically verified.  But I wouldn't be saying them as facts, I would be saying them as accusations.

[DQ12]

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

well I think you nailed it - most of the wypipo stereotypes are pretty negative and we don't want to be associated with them.

I still think it's fair that when we discuss things like the Starbucks arrest or BBQ Becky or Permit Patty we should acknowledge what's happening and understand that even if we don't behave like those folks, "white people" have been doing things like this (and much worse) for years and really don't have the reverse happen. It's a positive that we're being called out and mocked for this type of nonsense, even if it might hurt a lot of "innocent" white feelings.

But isn't that just racial stereotyping? 

Not sure how you took that. Saying something like "white people have been calling the police on minorities for bullshit reasons for years" seems like it could be statistically verified.

Well - okay maybe i should back up. what's your definition of a "racial stereotype"?   mine would be "the assignment of features to a racial group based on the actions of some of that group's members."

i mean, the first part of your post acknowledged "wypipo stereotypes." 

[Spracne]

Rusty's argument seems to presume that there are good and bad forms of racial stereotyping, and that we can readily discern between the two.

[Spracne]

You could almost say it's black and white, in his view.

[sys]

it's not a good thing or a bad thing (or if it is, it is not apparent to me at this point in time).  it's just a thing.

[michigancat]

as an aside, i do find it interesting that we're talking about white people in terms of "they" and "them" instead of "we" and "us" as if we're not including ourselves in the group of "white people" the article is describing.  i wonder what that says about us.

well I think you nailed it - most of the wypipo stereotypes are pretty negative and we don't want to be associated with them.

I still think it's fair that when we discuss things like the Starbucks arrest or BBQ Becky or Permit Patty we should acknowledge what's happening and understand that even if we don't behave like those folks, "white people" have been doing things like this (and much worse) for years and really don't have the reverse happen. It's a positive that we're being called out and mocked for this type of nonsense, even if it might hurt a lot of "innocent" white feelings.

But isn't that just racial stereotyping? 

Not sure how you took that. Saying something like "white people have been calling the police on minorities for bullshit reasons for years" seems like it could be statistically verified.

Well - okay maybe i should back up. what's your definition of a "racial stereotype"?   mine would be "the assignment of features to a racial group based on the actions of some of that group's members."

i mean, the first part of your post acknowledged "wypipo stereotypes." 

well there's a couple things going on here. "wypipo" sterotypes like being told we don't season our food or use washcloths - kinda funny, may be true, not really something we want to be associated with but probably not statistically verifiable in any way and probably has little positive or negative impact on society when called out (given white's dominant status in the US). A statement like "white people are more likely to call the police on little girls selling bottled water on a hot day" is also something we definitely don't want to be associated with but are anecdotally true and could probably be statistically verified, and calling out this "stereotype" (if that's what it is) could have real positive effects if we force white people to face them and think about them.

As sys says, it's just kind of a thing.

[mocat]

https://twitter.com/rrroooiiirrr/status/1010794943240171520

how could you make this tweet and not include paul ryan

[michigancat]

https://twitter.com/rrroooiiirrr/status/1010794943240171520

how could you make this tweet and not include paul ryan

it was in the replies!

https://twitter.com/giso6150/status/1010869789521338368

[bubbles4ksu]

something we [they] definitely don't want to be associated with but are anecdotally true and could probably be statistically verified, and calling out this "stereotype" (if that's what it is) could have real positive effects if we force white [insert ethnicity/race] people to face them and think about them.

[michigancat]

something we [they] definitely don't want to be associated with but are anecdotally true and could probably be statistically verified, and calling out this "stereotype" (if that's what it is) could have real positive effects if we force white [insert ethnicity/race] people to face them and think about them.

try a real life example

[bubbles4ksu]

something we [they] definitely don't want to be associated with but are anecdotally true and could probably be statistically verified, and calling out this "stereotype" (if that's what it is) could have real positive effects if we force white [insert ethnicity/race] people to face them and think about them.

try a real life example

i'm struggling. you first.

[michigancat]

I gave a very specific example, the "racial stereotype" that whites are more likely to call the cops on a minority for something petty.

[DQ12]

i wonder how the conversation would go with my best friend if i made him confront that members of his race are far more likely to murder someone than members of mine.  i think it would be just about as beneficial and condescending as any other statement broadly criticizing white people or mexicans or muslims or any other group for whatever transgression some members of their group carried out.

[michigancat]

i wonder how the conversation would go with my best friend if i made him confront that members of his race are far more likely to murder someone than members of mine.  ostensibly it would have real positive effects if he faced that truism and thought about it.

yeah, that's a pretty good one. I think both yours and mine have a similar origin: the power and wealth discrepancy between whites and blacks in the present day caused by White America's racist past. Worthy discussion, but you might want to present it in a different way than you wrote it.

[DQ12]

you are a master of your craft.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

AMAZE ridic

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/06/25/laura-ingalls-wilders-award/

[DQ12]

i mean, rusty, you realize that your philosophy now has you excusing murder because of the vague, amorphous link to the wealth and power discrepancy in America. 

don't you think it makes more sense to acknowledge the negative effects of the wealth and power discrepancy, work to change the discrepancy, and still hold individuals accountable for their own actions regardless of the color of their skin?