The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look

[Dugout DickStone]

He just wanted to sound big.

[sys]

Can I get a ruling from the resident campus free speech outrage brigade?

ferguson resigned, which seems appropriate.  it's hard to know how egregious this is without further information about the speakers program and other campus groups sponsoring speakers at stanford.  if it's the foremost sponsor, receives university funding or student funding and is supposed to invite a broad spectrum of speakers, then it's very bad and stanford needs to do far more than merely sidelining ferguson to ensure that the invitation process represents diverse views.  if it's one of many sponsors and other sponsors are dedicated to presenting other views, then it's not really a problem.

just from the name, cardinal conversations, it sounds more like the former, but that's obviously an incredibly superficial background from which to judge.

[bubbles4ksu]

damn, the right considers it a victory when they can hold an event on campus and not get physically de-platformed

[Dugout DickStone]

damn, the right considers it a victory when they can hold an event on campus and not get physically de-platformed

Alt right

[Kat Kid]

damn, the right considers it a victory when they can hold an event on campus and not get physically de-platformed

I’m glad Niall Ferguson decided to take responsibility for needing to “grow up” after his emails were leaked.  Susan Rice’s son is the student ring leader behind this? I guess the next generation is ready and waiting.





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[sonofdaxjones]

Is oppo research the same as threatening violence and shutting down speeches of those the increasingly intolerant ProgLeft disagrees with? 

We believe in open discussion and speech . . . as long as we approve. 

[sys]

as no-platforming goes, not inviting anyone you disagree with to speak is probably quite a bit more effective than acting like dumbasses anytime anyone you disagree with is speaking.

[sonofdaxjones]

as no-platforming goes, not inviting anyone you disagree with to speak is probably quite a bit more effective than acting like dumbasses anytime anyone you disagree with is speaking.

A community of ideas . . . as they're ideas that we agree with.

[sys]

as no-platforming goes, not inviting anyone you disagree with to speak is probably quite a bit more effective than acting like dumbasses anytime anyone you disagree with is speaking.

A community of ideas . . . as they're ideas that we agree with.

this is why no one will engage with you - you don't have the mental capacity to follow an argument.

[sonofdaxjones]

as no-platforming goes, not inviting anyone you disagree with to speak is probably quite a bit more effective than acting like dumbasses anytime anyone you disagree with is speaking.

A community of ideas . . . as they're ideas that we agree with.

this is why no one will engage with you - you don't have the mental capacity to follow an argument.

What is the "argument" sys?   Try to gurgle out something semi-coherent.  Can you list a college campus of any relevance that's a no-platforming campus?

Is a no-platforming campus a good educational environment?   

[sonofdaxjones]

Sys, do university groups and leaders ever use no platforming as a way to quell free speech and open debate?

Thanks for getting on this one, sys. 

[sys]

https://quillette.com/2018/06/05/high-price-stale-grievances/

interesting essay.

[bucket]

https://quillette.com/2018/06/05/high-price-stale-grievances/

interesting essay.

If you have benefitted from 300 years of holding people in servitude, thinking that you did it all on your own…”Why can’t these people work harder?” Let me see…for 300 years you ain’t had no job! So the reality is for 300 years you hold people in the bands…you refuse to give them rights. Then all of a sudden, you ‘free’ them and say, “You’re now individuals.”

The fact the above quote went over the writer's head is sad.

[michigancat]

https://quillette.com/2018/06/05/high-price-stale-grievances/

interesting essay.

what did you find interesting?

[sonofdaxjones]

What’s the “argument” sys?

[sys]

https://quillette.com/2018/06/05/high-price-stale-grievances/

interesting essay.

what did you find interesting?

i'll have to reread to answer.  i'll do so later today or tomorrow.  right now i don't have a ton of internet time and and what i have i want to allocate to election crap.

[sys]

what did you find interesting?

so, starting from the beginning.

1.  author is an undergrad and is performing on tv.  he's either a fantastic writer for a musician or a fantastic musician for an undergraduate essayist.
2.  photo of coates, plus later criticism of coates.  echoes the article by mcwhorter.  if i was going to pick out someone to personify what i find unuseful, illogical or dishonest about identity politics, coates would be about infinity -1 on my list.  so it's interesting to me in a half-gossipy sort of way that two black writers went after him hard.
3.  the racial/ethnic composition of performance artists.  actually, i think more interesting than the author's discussion of for which ethnicities it may be allowed and for which it may not be, is the idea that it is de facto allowed for everybody if they just don't talk about it.  if it becomes known that it is a deliberate artistic choice, it (may) engender controversy.  which is sorta backwards, imo.
4.  what i would identify as the central theme - to what extent, if any, is it ethical/logical to treat individuals differently based on group histories?  i don't think this is an easy issue, and i thought the author treated it with insight and honesty (i also think coates does).

[sys]

If you have benefitted from 300 years of holding people in servitude, thinking that you did it all on your own…”Why can’t these people work harder?” Let me see…for 300 years you ain’t had no job! So the reality is for 300 years you hold people in the bands…you refuse to give them rights. Then all of a sudden, you ‘free’ them and say, “You’re now individuals.”

The fact the above quote went over the writer's head is sad.

it self-evidently did not go over the author's head.  he disagreed with the premise, which is not at all the same thing.

[CHONGS]

@sys

It's not that hard to find black writers who disagree with Coates (from different side of the political spectrum)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/17/ta-nehisi-coates-neoliberal-black-struggle-cornel-west

[DQ12]

I found the article interesting because it's touching on the same issue we were discussing over the last couple weeks:

Though we have not consistently lived up to the principle, liberal democracies decided long ago that the individual was to be the primary unit of moral concern and responsibility. What happened to your parents, grandparents, or fellow tribe members is supposed to be left at the door when it comes time to judge your actions. We do not give Jewish writers free rein to incite hatred against German people because the former’s grandparents were murdered by the latter’s. As tempting as such temporal displacements of justice might be, we’ve learned that indulging them creates an unending cycle of retributive violations.

You can agree or disagree with that sentiment, but it's pretty on the nose as far as the discourse in this thread is concerned.

[michigancat]

what did you find interesting?

so, starting from the beginning.

1.  author is an undergrad and is performing on tv.  he's either a fantastic writer for a musician or a fantastic musician for an undergraduate essayist.
2.  photo of coates, plus later criticism of coates.  echoes the article by mcwhorter.  if i was going to pick out someone to personify what i find unuseful, illogical or dishonest about identity politics, coates would be about infinity -1 on my list.  so it's interesting to me in a half-gossipy sort of way that two black writers went after him hard.
3.  the racial/ethnic composition of performance artists.  actually, i think more interesting than the author's discussion of for which ethnicities it may be allowed and for which it may not be, is the idea that it is de facto allowed for everybody if they just don't talk about it.  if it becomes known that it is a deliberate artistic choice, it (may) engender controversy.  which is sorta backwards, imo.
4.  what i would identify as the central theme - to what extent, if any, is it ethical/logical to treat individuals differently based on group histories?  i don't think this is an easy issue, and i thought the author treated it with insight and honesty (i also think coates does).

I agree that those topics are interesting but I don't  think he discussed those topics in interesting ways.

I also was wondering if he still played the Rhianna show despite his objection to the racial discrimination

[sys]

@sys

It's not that hard to find black writers who disagree with Coates (from different side of the political spectrum)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/17/ta-nehisi-coates-neoliberal-black-struggle-cornel-west

yeah, i'm aware of cornel west.

[michigancat]

I found the article interesting because it's touching on the same issue we were discussing over the last couple weeks:

Though we have not consistently lived up to the principle, liberal democracies decided long ago that the individual was to be the primary unit of moral concern and responsibility. What happened to your parents, grandparents, or fellow tribe members is supposed to be left at the door when it comes time to judge your actions. We do not give Jewish writers free rein to incite hatred against German people because the former’s grandparents were murdered by the latter’s. As tempting as such temporal displacements of justice might be, we’ve learned that indulging them creates an unending cycle of retributive violations.

You can agree or disagree with that sentiment, but it's pretty on the nose as far as the discourse in this thread is concerned.

I don't think it's fair to say Coates is inciting hatred against white people.

Also is this guy claiming Jewish people aren't treated differently based on their history of persecution? Really?

[sys]

I also was wondering if he still played the Rhianna show despite his objection to the racial discrimination

i thought it was clear that he did, but on rereading i find that he didn't explicitly state that he did.

[DQ12]

I don't think it's fair to say Coates is inciting hatred against white people.

No?

"'White America' is a syndicate arrayed to protect its exclusive power to dominate and control our bodies.  Sometimes this power is direct (lynching), and sometimes it is insidious (redlining)"