Author Topic: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?  (Read 15271 times)

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Offline Katpappy

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2015, 09:20:55 PM »
Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here
I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?
Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses.

That 2004 offense was the worst LHC Bill Snyder offense I've personally seen. I'd love to have the 2010 offense right now.
I didn't Google it, but wasn't the '04-05 yrs so bad that we even lost to the Squawks.
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2015, 10:50:57 PM »

I also think our 2 halves of offensive success have a common thread. In both halves we seemed to move the ball with balance and were able to complete passes. I think it shows there is some offensive talent on this team but we struggle to take advantage of it. Because coaches can't figure out a doable game plan, but I think is related to our inabilities at QB position.       

This is definitely the common thread.

In the first half against OSU/TCU our QBs went 17-28 (60%) for 228 yards (8.1 YPA) and 3 TDs. We only had 3 sacks. 5 of our 12 drives (42%) started with a pass on the 1st play of the drive. Granted, we ran the ball well with 50 rushes for 286 yards (5.72 YPR) and ran it the majority of the time (62% run plays called), but the success came because of successful passing mixed in. When those passes failed in both 2nd halves (and the following 2 games) our offense really stagnated. While I agree that we should have run the ball more in some situations, the inability to consistently complete passes like we did in those 2 first halves is the downfall of this offense this season.

Our receivers aren't good - Burton is the only serviceable one - but I noticed in all of our losses we had plenty of receivers open. At Texas we had receivers open constantly. Hubener either didn't find them or completely missed them when he threw to them. Also, oddly we didn't have any drops at Texas in that downpour.

I noticed that as well. Burton actually made a pretty nice catch on one play.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2015, 12:10:56 AM »
Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here
I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?
Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses.

That 2004 offense was the worst LHC Bill Snyder offense I've personally seen. I'd love to have the 2010 offense right now.
I didn't Google it, but wasn't the '04-05 yrs so bad that we even lost to the Squawks.

'04 we lost at home to Iowa State on Darren's senior day, '05 we lost at KU

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #78 on: October 28, 2015, 12:20:51 AM »
Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here
I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?
Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses.

That 2004 offense was the worst LHC Bill Snyder offense I've personally seen. I'd love to have the 2010 offense right now.
I didn't Google it, but wasn't the '04-05 yrs so bad that we even lost to the Squawks.

'04 we lost at home to Iowa State on Darren's senior day, '05 we lost at KU
Very sad days.  I remember ppl walking on the walkways and complaining about how bad Bill's coaches were and hoping he would clean house.  It was a very common topic after losing one game after another. 
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Online michigancat

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #79 on: October 28, 2015, 12:41:46 AM »
Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here
I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?
Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses.

That 2004 offense was the worst LHC Bill Snyder offense I've personally seen. I'd love to have the 2010 offense right now.
I didn't Google it, but wasn't the '04-05 yrs so bad that we even lost to the Squawks.

'04 we lost at home to Iowa State on Darren's senior day, '05 we lost at KU
04 we lost at ku (and at home vs. ISU). In 05 Allen Evridge led the cats to victory against ku in what I recall as being a brutally ugly game.

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2015, 12:44:27 AM »
Also, is this accurate?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team

Our last 5 Big 12 games weren't televised? :sdeek:

Offline DQ12

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2015, 01:16:40 AM »
Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here
I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?
Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses.

That 2004 offense was the worst LHC Bill Snyder offense I've personally seen. I'd love to have the 2010 offense right now.
The '04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03 though.  Which is why I used '04.

Anyhow, I think we're getting stuck in the weeds here.  My original point wasn't that DT was as good or better than Sproles, and maybe that comparison by me was careless.  My point was that comparing players when the relative skill of the rest of the offense is significantly different is really tough.  Sure maybe CCQ was better than Hubener is, but it's hard to tell, really, because CCQ had DT and about 5 better receivers than we currently have. Hubener has Charles Jones and Kyle Klein. 


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2015, 08:59:51 AM »
This is an actual quote before the season started from Joe Hubener's girlfriend to a female friend of mine:

"I just not sure if I'm ready to be an NFL wife."

This is super awesome and should not be over looked.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2015, 09:02:31 AM »
This is an actual quote before the season started from Joe Hubener's girlfriend to a female friend of mine:

"I just not sure if I'm ready to be an NFL wife."

This is super awesome and should not be over looked.
I'm over looking it, because it never happened.

Offline Cire

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2015, 09:20:06 AM »
Also, is this accurate?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team

Our last 5 Big 12 games weren't televised? :sdeek:

mizzou game was not on tv.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2015, 09:30:19 AM »

Also, is this accurate?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team

Our last 5 Big 12 games weren't televised? :sdeek:

mizzou game was not on tv.

Different era in CFB tho. Even KU's games are televised other than a couple early ones you have to catch on ESPN 3.

Offline HerrSonntag

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2015, 09:50:41 AM »
I remember it being a big deal when the game would be on TV, listening to games on the radio often.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team
2004 was the year we lost @KU, i was there... in the student section.  It sucked.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #87 on: October 28, 2015, 10:32:07 AM »
This year's offense is on pace to be the 2nd worst offense since Snyder's return (and Dimel/Miller) and perhaps the worst if we don't see improvement.

Here are the national offensive efficiency ratings from footballoutsiders.com and their average for each year of Snyder 2.0.

Year  FEI   S&P   AVE
09     91    92    91.5
10     24    49    36.5
11     29    69    49
12     21    23    22
13     16    15    15.5
14     15    22    18.5
15     56    93    74.5

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #88 on: October 28, 2015, 11:02:48 AM »
This year's offense is on pace to be the 2nd worst offense since Snyder's return (and Dimel/Miller) and perhaps the worst if we don't see improvement.

Here are the national offensive efficiency ratings from footballoutsiders.com and their average for each year of Snyder 2.0.

Year  FEI   S&P   AVE
09     91    92    91.5
10     24    49    36.5
11     29    69    49
12     21    23    22
13     16    15    15.5
14     15    22    18.5
15     56    93    74.5

I must not be reading this correctly; is it saying that the offense was more efficient in '13 and '14 than it was in '12? If so  :ROFL:

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2015, 11:05:23 AM »
12 had the best special teams in the country also which was a very big deal. Plus the difference is slight.

Offline Pett

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2015, 11:26:27 AM »

Offline That_Guy

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2015, 11:49:17 AM »



Lol what the actual eff...


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Offline #LIFE

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2015, 11:51:19 AM »


Quote
To dismiss a players potential after 8 football games is short-sided.  I'll answer TBones question, YES, he does have NFL arm strength.  And YES, he does have the size and strength to play in the NFL.  And yes, he has the ability to escape from the pocket and run.  But no, he doesn't have very much experience at the position.  And no, he doesn't see the field as well as someone who has played quarterback since jr. high.  And no, he doesn't have the poise and confidence necessary to play at the next level, but how to we really know if that is because of his inexperience, or because he just doesn't have a sharp enough football mind.  WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.  So, give the guy a chance.  He played a damn good game against Baylor, as catchick pointed out, with over 300 yards of total offense.  Do you guys think that Steve Grogan was any better at this stage?  I can tell you, from watching him first hand, that he wasn't.  And don't give me this crap about what a great college quarterback Grogan was.  Just look at his stats!  They are no better than Hubener's.  Grogan played on losing teams at K-State.  Grogan progressed and got better, especially in the NFL.   Will Hubener?  Folks, the jury is still out

Offline CNS

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2015, 12:28:27 PM »
That guy is definitely 'Clams

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2015, 12:33:46 PM »
He's not the best, but there's no reason to hate him. He's practically our whole offense right now and somehow gets it done for being really shitty. I wish he wasn't my starting QB, but here we are.

Offline CNS

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2015, 12:39:09 PM »
He's not the best, but there's no reason to hate him. He's practically our whole offense right now and somehow gets it done for being really shitty. I wish he wasn't my starting QB, but here we are.

We lost our last 5 games.  he isn't getting it done.

Offline CNS

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2015, 12:41:46 PM »

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2015, 12:42:31 PM »
He's not the best, but there's no reason to hate him. He's practically our whole offense right now and somehow gets it done for being really shitty. I wish he wasn't my starting QB, but here we are.

We lost our last 5 games.  he isn't getting it done.
Well, no crap. He's all we have at the moment tho. He's not the sole reason we lost those games (by help me god, don't make me tuck right now) either and you know it.

Offline CNS

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2015, 12:44:14 PM »
Well, if you are saying that our problems are much more systematic and start at the top, I agree.  I was just responding to your note saying that he is still getting it done.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?
« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2015, 12:45:20 PM »
Getting it done, was more like, keeping us in the game with a bunch of scrubs. #MoralVictoryIGuess