Is Joe Huebener the worst QB to start in last 25 years?

[MixBerryCrunch]

Two years from now Joe is gonna be throwing Super Bowl TD bombs to Tyler Lockett.

[DQ12]

Yeah he and CCQ are pretty close in my eyes.  Carson had the benefit of having a few (very) capable skill position players on the field with him and wasn't asked to do nearly as much as Hubener is (which is inexplicable, thanks Dana). 

That 2010 offense would have been remarkable with an average quarterback.  With an average quarterback, the 2015 offense would still be really bad.

[catastrophe]

Yeah he and CCQ are pretty close in my eyes.  Carson had the benefit of having a few (very) capable skill position players on the field with him and wasn't asked to do nearly as much as Hubener is (which is inexplicable, thanks Dana). 

That 2010 offense would have been remarkable with an average quarterback.  With an average quarterback, the 2015 offense would still be really bad.

If we had DT on this team, we'd probably have 3 more wins (still would've been dominated by OU).  I say that mostly because I'm assuming Dimel would have us throw the ball less if that were the case.

[wetwillie]

2010 had 3! NFL running backs...

[Mixed-Nutz]

Yeah he and CCQ are pretty close in my eyes.  Carson had the benefit of having a few (very) capable skill position players on the field with him and wasn't asked to do nearly as much as Hubener is (which is inexplicable, thanks Dana). 

That 2010 offense would have been remarkable with an average quarterback.  With an average quarterback, the 2015 offense would still be really bad.

If we had DT on this team, we'd probably have 3 more wins (still would've been dominated by OU).  I say that mostly because I'm assuming Dimel would have us throw the ball less if that were the case.

I believe people over value DT in comparison to Silmon and Jones. I don't think it makes up for the gap between Hubner and Coffman statically. Coffman was close to a system QB. Hubner has such a limited skill set. I don't think he doing anything well. I don't like how I perceive what he is checking plays into but that is so hard to figure out. But I do know he has a completion rate of 38.5% and has 4.85 yards per attempt in conference play. On top of the he is only averaging 2.8 yards per carry.

I also think our 2 halves of offensive success have a common thread. In both halves we seemed to move the ball with balance and were able to complete passes. I think it shows there is some offensive talent on this team but we struggle to take advantage of it. Because coaches can't figure out a doable game plan, but I think is related to our inabilities at QB position.       

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I'd like to see a waters vs. Sams debate here. Which one should have started in 2013?

Also, Alan Webb was the worst kstate qb ever.

[kso_FAN]

Snyder has always had quarterbacks like Huebener in the program, but we are seeing what it's like to have Helm or Schwinn be a long term starter and not just play a game or two.

[michigancat]

Hubes can't throw short passes like CCQ did and I don't think we'd use DT this season because OMG THEY'RE DARING US TO THROW LET'S THROW

[DQ12]

I believe people over value DT in comparison to Silmon and Jones.     

Well, first of all, Silmon has 11 carries in the last 3 games, so the comparison is really between Jones and Thomas. 

And generally, I would agree with you -- 90% of the time, running backs are a dime a dozen in college football (5% are inept, 5% are spectacular - everyone else is more or less "serviceable"). I think Thomas is different - he's probably the 2nd best running back K-State's ever had.  Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.  DT was absolutely a difference maker in '09 and '10. 

I'm not here to defend Hubener by any means.  He's absolutely terrible.  But I think his lack of skill is especially apparent when the cast surrounding is relatively terrible too. 

I think it's safe to say that our offense is the least talented its been in at least 2 decades.  Not a single difference maker on the field.

[XocolateThundarr]

i'm sure she was joking. nobody is that dumb.

My cousin knows her and I would say she is 100% serious.

[catastrophe]

i'm sure she was joking. nobody is that dumb.

My cousin knows her and I would say she is 100% serious.

This makes a lot of sense. Hubes is sandbagging so he doesn't get NFL looks and his gf won't feel guilty about telling him she doesn't want to be an NFL wife. Pretty admirable, but not very #family.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I believe people over value DT in comparison to Silmon and Jones.     

Well, first of all, Silmon has 11 carries in the last 3 games, so the comparison is really between Jones and Thomas. 

And generally, I would agree with you -- 90% of the time, running backs are a dime a dozen in college football (5% are inept, 5% are spectacular - everyone else is more or less "serviceable"). I think Thomas is different - he's probably the 2nd best running back K-State's ever had.  Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.  DT was absolutely a difference maker in '09 and '10. 

I'm not here to defend Hubener by any means.  He's absolutely terrible.  But I think his lack of skill is especially apparent when the cast surrounding is relatively terrible too. 

I think it's safe to say that our offense is the least talented its been in at least 2 decades.  Not a single difference maker on the field.

Jones is averaging 6yds per carry in conference play, FWIW. It is not like we are hurting at the RB position.

[EMAWforever]

Yeah he and CCQ are pretty close in my eyes.  Carson had the benefit of having a few (very) capable skill position players on the field with him and wasn't asked to do nearly as much as Hubener is (which is inexplicable, thanks Dana). 

That 2010 offense would have been remarkable with an average quarterback.  With an average quarterback, the 2015 offense would still be really bad.

CC stat line from 2010
Year  Comp/att/yards/%/TDS/Int/Rat/Rushes/Yards/ Avg/TDs
2010 171 263 2,060 65.0 14 7 143.1 110 157 1.4 9

Coffman is a much better passer than hubener ever thought about being.  He couldn't run but I think any of us would take this stat line this year from our QB. 

[CHONGS]

Queso was better than GG.  GG is overhyped and was probably the worst.

[DQ12]

Yeah he and CCQ are pretty close in my eyes.  Carson had the benefit of having a few (very) capable skill position players on the field with him and wasn't asked to do nearly as much as Hubener is (which is inexplicable, thanks Dana). 

That 2010 offense would have been remarkable with an average quarterback.  With an average quarterback, the 2015 offense would still be really bad.

CC stat line from 2010
Year  Comp/att/yards/%/TDS/Int/Rat/Rushes/Yards/ Avg/TDs
2010 171 263 2,060 65.0 14 7 143.1 110 157 1.4 9

Coffman is a much better passer than hubener ever thought about being.  He couldn't run but I think any of us would take this stat line this year from our QB.

Again, I'm not disputing that CCQ had better stats than Hubener.  I'm saying that comparing the two is apples and oranges to some degree - Coffman's 6th best pass catcher would probably be our number 1 target this year.

[kso_FAN]

I also think our 2 halves of offensive success have a common thread. In both halves we seemed to move the ball with balance and were able to complete passes. I think it shows there is some offensive talent on this team but we struggle to take advantage of it. Because coaches can't figure out a doable game plan, but I think is related to our inabilities at QB position.       

This is definitely the common thread.

In the first half against OSU/TCU our QBs went 17-28 (60%) for 228 yards (8.1 YPA) and 3 TDs. We only had 3 sacks. 5 of our 12 drives (42%) started with a pass on the 1st play of the drive. Granted, we ran the ball well with 50 rushes for 286 yards (5.72 YPR) and ran it the majority of the time (62% run plays called), but the success came because of successful passing mixed in. When those passes failed in both 2nd halves (and the following 2 games) our offense really stagnated. While I agree that we should have run the ball more in some situations, the inability to consistently complete passes like we did in those 2 first halves is the downfall of this offense this season.

[MakeItRain]

Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here

[DQ12]

Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here

I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

[MakeItRain]

Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here

I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?

Of course Thomas would have benefited from a better QB, but Darren Sproles had 2275 yards from scrimmage (not counting his return yards) in 2003. It's ridiculous to think that anyone would do better than that. Daniel Thomas was a very good running back, Darren Sproles was and is a transformative running back.

[DQ12]

Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here

I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?

Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses. 

[Mixed-Nutz]

DT didn't have the top end speed that Sproles had, I think that would have limited his effectiveness. 

[Pete]

It's debatable, but I think Heubner is the very worst quarterback to start a game for LHC Bill Snyder since 1993.

Jeff Schwin is a decent argument, but I would still take Jeff.  I think Dylan and both Allen's were better runners and better short passers.

 

[MakeItRain]

Had he been on that '03 team, his numbers may have been better than Sproles's.

Get the eff outta here

I don't think that's too crazy.  Thomas's '10 season (1585 yds on 298 carries; 5.3 ypc) was roughly on par with Sproles's '04 season (1318 yds on 244 carries; 5.4 ypc).  My point is that the surrounding cast matters.  Sproles benefited from Roberson just like Roberson benefited from Sproles.  When Ell left, defenses could stuff the box and limit Sproles' production.  Thomas was basically handicapped throughout both his seasons in the way Sproles was handicapped in '04. 

I'm not saying Thomas would have been better than Sproles, but I think it's fair to say that Thomas would have been much more effective with a quarterback that was more of an offensive threat than Queso and Gregory.

Why did you use Sproles' worst year as a full time player, a year in which he was playing behind a sorry line, as the point of comparison?

Because the 04 offense is more similar to the '10 offense than '02 or '03's offenses.

That 2004 offense was the worst LHC Bill Snyder offense I've personally seen. I'd love to have the 2010 offense right now.

[DOD Take 2]

I also think our 2 halves of offensive success have a common thread. In both halves we seemed to move the ball with balance and were able to complete passes. I think it shows there is some offensive talent on this team but we struggle to take advantage of it. Because coaches can't figure out a doable game plan, but I think is related to our inabilities at QB position.       

This is definitely the common thread.

In the first half against OSU/TCU our QBs went 17-28 (60%) for 228 yards (8.1 YPA) and 3 TDs. We only had 3 sacks. 5 of our 12 drives (42%) started with a pass on the 1st play of the drive. Granted, we ran the ball well with 50 rushes for 286 yards (5.72 YPR) and ran it the majority of the time (62% run plays called), but the success came because of successful passing mixed in. When those passes failed in both 2nd halves (and the following 2 games) our offense really stagnated. While I agree that we should have run the ball more in some situations, the inability to consistently complete passes like we did in those 2 first halves is the downfall of this offense this season.

Our receivers aren't good - Burton is the only serviceable one - but I noticed in all of our losses we had plenty of receivers open. At Texas we had receivers open constantly. Hubener either didn't find them or completely missed them when he threw to them. Also, oddly we didn't have any drops at Texas in that downpour.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Hey if Heath didn't sprain his ankle