Too many secrets

[CNS]

No way of proving it at all, but I have to think that the atomic bomb has prevented much more loss of life than it ever took, to date.  I mean, if we, and a select few others, didn't have them, I would bet there would have been a lot more war than there already was.   

[sonofdaxjones]

No blockade or lack of allies was going to make Japan surrender, they were counting on the fear of an invasion so they could sue for peace on much more agreeable terms.   Oh but who cares if a lot of people may have remained enslaved by the Japanese once the war was over, right cRusty?

Plus we wouldn't have all those sweet ass military bases in Japan, like we do now.   Imagine that, U.S. forces "occupying" Japan for six decades now, where's the outrage from Generation Outrage?

[michigancat]

Why in the world shouldn't the atomic bomb have happened?

are you serious?

[Emo EMAW]

Why in the world shouldn't the atomic bomb have happened?

are you serious?

Absolutely.  It was for sure a net positive.

[michigancat]

Why in the world shouldn't the atomic bomb have happened?

are you serious?

Absolutely.  It was for sure a net positive.

It is absolutely not for sure a net positive. I mean, we incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians. It's possible that was a positive, but far from definitive. Even if it was a net positive, could we not tell people "we are working on the most destructive weapon known to man" and make sure everyone is OK with it?

[sys]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

[Emo EMAW]

Why in the world shouldn't the atomic bomb have happened?

are you serious?

Absolutely.  It was for sure a net positive.

It is absolutely not for sure a net positive. I mean, we incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians. It's possible that was a positive, but far from definitive. Even if it was a net positive, could we not tell people "we are working on the most destructive weapon known to man" and make sure everyone is OK with it?

Well ignoring the first part of your post...

Let's say we did share it...part of the strategy was our enemies believing we had a lot of these devices.  They might still have held fast after the second was dropped if they knew we were spent.

[michigancat]

Why in the world shouldn't the atomic bomb have happened?

are you serious?

Absolutely.  It was for sure a net positive.

It is absolutely not for sure a net positive. I mean, we incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians. It's possible that was a positive, but far from definitive. Even if it was a net positive, could we not tell people "we are working on the most destructive weapon known to man" and make sure everyone is OK with it?

Well ignoring the first part of your post...

Let's say we did share it...part of the strategy was our enemies believing we had a lot of these devices.  They might still have held fast after the second was dropped if they knew we were spent.

I wasn't suggesting to share the formula or quantity, just let the public know that we were working on it.

[star seed 7]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

Rusty is a firm believer in "if we left them alone, they would leave us alone" when it comes to foreign policy and battling terrorism. I wish that was actually viable

[michigancat]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

Rusty is a firm believer in "if we left them alone, they would leave us alone" when it comes to foreign policy and battling terrorism. I wish that was actually viable

I'm not even saying that. I just think we do a lot of stupid things under the guise of "protecting sensitive information."

[Emo EMAW]

Why in the world shouldn't the atomic bomb have happened?

are you serious?

Absolutely.  It was for sure a net positive.

It is absolutely not for sure a net positive. I mean, we incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians. It's possible that was a positive, but far from definitive. Even if it was a net positive, could we not tell people "we are working on the most destructive weapon known to man" and make sure everyone is OK with it?

Well ignoring the first part of your post...

Let's say we did share it...part of the strategy was our enemies believing we had a lot of these devices.  They might still have held fast after the second was dropped if they knew we were spent.

I wasn't suggesting to share the formula or quantity, just let the public know that we were working on it.

You should read the Art of War.

[Emo EMAW]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

Rusty is a firm believer in "if we left them alone, they would leave us alone" when it comes to foreign policy and battling terrorism. I wish that was actually viable

I'm not even saying that. I just think we do a lot of stupid things under the guise of "protecting sensitive information."

I can agree with you generally, but not in this (Japan/A-bomb) instance.  Maybe focus on other points?  Or maybe it's the arguing that's the fun part. 

[michigancat]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

Rusty is a firm believer in "if we left them alone, they would leave us alone" when it comes to foreign policy and battling terrorism. I wish that was actually viable

I'm not even saying that. I just think we do a lot of stupid things under the guise of "protecting sensitive information."

I can agree with you generally, but not in this (Japan/A-bomb) instance.  Maybe focus on other points?  Or maybe it's the arguing that's the fun part.

I also really don't think dropping the atomic bomb is a very good example of classified information being protected. We told anyone who would listen we had the bomb and were ready to use it.

[Emo EMAW]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

Rusty is a firm believer in "if we left them alone, they would leave us alone" when it comes to foreign policy and battling terrorism. I wish that was actually viable

I'm not even saying that. I just think we do a lot of stupid things under the guise of "protecting sensitive information."

I can agree with you generally, but not in this (Japan/A-bomb) instance.  Maybe focus on other points?  Or maybe it's the arguing that's the fun part.

I also really don't think dropping the atomic bomb is a very good example of classified information being protected. We told anyone who would listen we had the bomb and were ready to use it.

Then it seems we did exactly what you thought we should have done, yet you still disagree with the result?   

[michigancat]

i can't tell if rusty is being contrarian for contrarian's sake or if it's his amazingly rosy view of human nature.  it's certainly not familiarity with history.

Rusty is a firm believer in "if we left them alone, they would leave us alone" when it comes to foreign policy and battling terrorism. I wish that was actually viable

I'm not even saying that. I just think we do a lot of stupid things under the guise of "protecting sensitive information."

I can agree with you generally, but not in this (Japan/A-bomb) instance.  Maybe focus on other points?  Or maybe it's the arguing that's the fun part.

I also really don't think dropping the atomic bomb is a very good example of classified information being protected. We told anyone who would listen we had the bomb and were ready to use it.

Then it seems we did exactly what you thought we should have done, yet you still disagree with the result?   

I don't think the world is a better place because of the creation of the atomic bomb. It's really irrelevant to the topic, though.

[sonofdaxjones]

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-unlikely-struggle-of-the-family-whose-neighbor-is-a-1741346156

[gatoveintisiete]

Rusty makes a damn good point here, I've often wondered why poker isn't played with all the cards face up.

[gatoveintisiete]

                      ^
That's prolly the best post I'll ever make.

[Katpappy]

                      ^
That's prolly the best post I'll ever make.

You got that right, at least.

[DQ12]

I agree with the spirit of Rusty's argument.  But overwhelmingly disagree with the notion that there is no government information worth keeping secret.

[chuckjames]

We absolutely over classify a lot of information, and secondly it's a miracle we haven't blown ourselves up yet with the A now H bomb.

[Brock Landers]

I think our use of the A bomb in Japan has prevented the use of nukes later on.

[michigancat]

I agree with the spirit of Rusty's argument.  But overwhelmingly disagree with the notion that there is no government information worth keeping secret.

I agree that in war approved by congress, war plans are OK to remain secret.

[Emo EMAW]

What is secret today that shouldn't be secret?

[chuckjames]

What is secret today that shouldn't be secret?

The drone program comes to mind, also NSA mass intelligence gathering.