how will ksuw types spin this stud obama quote?

[sys]

Nothing Hillary said is wrong

incorrect.  ksuw is right, putative victims do not have a right to be believed.  they have a right to have allegations seriously and fairly considered.

[star seed 7]

She said victims, not accusers

[sys]

She said victims, not accusers

you can't extend a right to be believed to victims, but not accusers without first sorting them into victims and not proven to be victims.  the process of sorting them, by definition, means that you do not immediately extend (formal) belief to any of them.

[star seed 7]

Victims have already been separated. I would accept that she was redundant, but not incorrect.

[0.42]

The jayhawk dick thing could have been an episode of black mirror

we didn't get to see john currie eff a pig on live television tho

[sys]

Victims have already been separated. I would accept that she was redundant, but not incorrect.

more like meaningless (according to your interpretation of what she meant, which i think is fairly obviously incorrect).  by the time accusers have been separated into victims and not proven to be victims, the legal process is over.  there is no further governmental role in which belief or non-belief of their accounts has any relevance.

[star seed 7]

I did not interpret this as a statement on governmental process, but rather public opinion

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Victims have already been separated. I would accept that she was redundant, but not incorrect.

more like meaningless (according to your interpretation of what she meant, which i think is fairly obviously incorrect).  by the time accusers have been separated into victims and not proven to be victims, the legal process is over.  there is no further governmental role in which belief or non-belief of their accounts has any relevance.

Thank you sys for sorting out the dumbassery. It's like a full time job over here.

[sys]

I did not interpret this as a statement on governmental process, but rather public opinion

each member of the public is free to believe or not believe anything or anyone they choose.  so clearly, no one has a right to be believed by the public.

[star seed 7]

That's an interesting take. I didn't specifically connect "right" with any governmental right (for lack of better phrasing). I took "right" in more of a deserve context.

As in a rewording of "you should be heard and people should believe you". 

I will also agree the statement is meaningless, like most political statements

[renocat]

Ksuw points out double standards on a campus.  It was assumed a Kkk wannabe put up the signs at Buffalo U.  What happens to the kid who did this?   It is liberal nut college leaders stirring the crap into the cockpit stew.  Read today where Yale wants kids to use gender nuetral pronouns to describe themselves.  No more he or she, just ze.

[star seed 7]

Basically, she was saying people like ksuw, who don't believe in sexual assualt outside of violent rape and still deny sexual assault after someone has been proven guilty, well those people are assholes

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Basically, she was saying people like ksuw, who don't believe in sexual assualt outside of violent rape and still deny sexual assault after someone has been proven guilty, well those people are assholes

That's a mean thing to say. I don't believe that all. I do believe in due process. As sys points out, if she really meant "victims" in the legal sense, the comment was redundant and meaningless. You know full well that's not what she meant. She was talking about accusers.

[star seed 7]

I know that's what you think, but I don't agree

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I know that's what you think, but I don't agree

If you actually think she was using the word "victim" in the legal sense, you are purposefully being dense. There is a rash of sexual assault allegations on college campuses. There is not a rash of people disbelieving rapes that have been adjudged to be rapes in a court of law. If you actually think that's a widespread thing (beyond, say, the rapist and his family) please point it out.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

And by the way, she didn't actually say "victim" - she said "survivor of sexual assualt." The point remains that she was clearly talking about alleged assualts. There's not a widespread issue of people disbelieving sexual assaults that have been adjudged in a court of law to have occurred. That's not what's happening on college campuses - these cases rarely even get to a court.

[star seed 7]

if you believe that statement was aimed at all  accusers, and included those that were false, then you are the one being deliberately dense (I prefer obtuse)

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

if you believe that statement was aimed at all  accusers, and included those that were false, then you are the one being deliberately dense (I prefer obtuse)

You're just really not getting this. If you're an accuser, it doesn't matter if you're telling the truth or not - you don't have the right to be believed.You have the right to due process, which includes a fair and thorough investigation, followed by a prosecution and trial if necessary.

You don't have the right to be believed until after a conviction. If that's all she was saying, there's no point in saying it. She was clearly talking about accusers - "you have the right to be heard..."

[8manpick]

Go home lib, you're drunk

[star seed 7]

So you belive MG specifically meant to include false accusers as "survivors"?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So you belive MG specifically meant to include false accusers as "survivors"?

Let's try this a different way. According to your theory of what Hillary really meant, she could have said: "Once it's been determined by a court of law that you've been raped, you have the right to be believed." That really seems like a pretty obvious point. Hardly worth making. But if that's what you really think she meant bud, knock yourself out.

[star seed 7]

So you belive MG specifically meant to include false accusers as "survivors"?

Let's try this a different way. According to your theory of what Hillary really meant, she could have said: "Once it's been determined by a court of law that you've been raped, you have the right to be believed." That really seems like a pretty obvious point. Hardly worth making. But if that's what you really think she meant bud, knock yourself out.

answer the question

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

To answer your question, I think she was speaking to all accusers. You don't know if someone is telling the truth until an investigation.

So, according to your theory, what Hillary really meant was: "If it turns out you've actually been raped, you totally have the right to be believed." Something tells me that wouldn't have garnered much applause.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

The kampus krazies strike again. Clemson University Apologizes "Maximum Mexican Food Fiesta" Promotion in Dining Hall. Apparently every mexican restaurant in the country is perpetrating a hate crime.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

eff, there goes Taco Tuesday