Author Topic: The Gender Wage Gap  (Read 5599 times)

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Offline puniraptor

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2015, 05:00:39 PM »
i want someone to tell me that per unit of normalized time effort, women get paid the same.

i tend to believe that not to be the case, but society has of course conditioned me in that way.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2015, 05:49:11 PM »
Unlike some loud mouth hairy legged ovarie hating women, some women take time off to have babies and adjust their work schedules to raise them instead of letting someone else do it.  They think of kids as people to be nutured, not to have around to play with when convenient like a dog.  These scarfices most often mean taking a work track resulting lower wages.  Make professions mommy track friendly, and tax the less out of hetro working mommies.

huh?

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2015, 06:02:45 PM »
So are we moving on now to dumb jokes?

I feel like it didn't get the play it deserved that ChiCat cited to a NYT blog post titled "Pay Gap is Because of Gender, Not Jobs" - which just cites a feminist complaining/admitting that the wage gap is because companies "disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours." That's pretty awesome and hilarious, right?


I agreed that the wage gap is less than 23%.  I would go so far as to agree that the actual gap is probably in range of your 6% estimate.  Pretending that no company could possibly discriminate because it is against the law is just stupid.

Offline ednksu

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2015, 12:15:08 AM »
I really love our resident neo con circle jerks.  "If we just control for all the facts that show we're blatantly wrong, we can make it seem like we're right!!"
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2015, 07:38:26 AM »
I really love our resident neo con circle jerks.  "If we just control for all the facts that show we're blatantly wrong, we can make it seem like we're right!!"

Controlling for things like differences in occupations and hours worked are "facts that show we're blatantly wrong"? That's a really stupid thing to say, even by Edna standards.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2015, 07:55:45 AM »
So are we moving on now to dumb jokes?

I feel like it didn't get the play it deserved that ChiCat cited to a NYT blog post titled "Pay Gap is Because of Gender, Not Jobs" - which just cites a feminist complaining/admitting that the wage gap is because companies "disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours." That's pretty awesome and hilarious, right?


I agreed that the wage gap is less than 23%.  I would go so far as to agree that the actual gap is probably in range of your 6% estimate.  Pretending that no company could possibly discriminate because it is against the law is just stupid.

Also stupid to dismiss societal pressures as a factor for why women may choose lower paying/less hour jobs
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2015, 09:46:48 AM »
So are we moving on now to dumb jokes?

I feel like it didn't get the play it deserved that ChiCat cited to a NYT blog post titled "Pay Gap is Because of Gender, Not Jobs" - which just cites a feminist complaining/admitting that the wage gap is because companies "disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours." That's pretty awesome and hilarious, right?


I agreed that the wage gap is less than 23%.  I would go so far as to agree that the actual gap is probably in range of your 6% estimate.  Pretending that no company could possibly discriminate because it is against the law is just stupid.

Also stupid to dismiss societal pressures as a factor for why women may choose lower paying/less hour jobs

Societal pressure is a pretty bad excuse for choosing a low paying job and then being mad about it being low paying.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2015, 10:12:54 AM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)
:adios:

Offline p1k3

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2015, 11:42:03 AM »


Bill Burr is a genius

Offline ednksu

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2015, 11:50:54 AM »
I really love our resident neo con circle jerks.  "If we just control for all the facts that show we're blatantly wrong, we can make it seem like we're right!!"

Controlling for things like differences in occupations and hours worked are "facts that show we're blatantly wrong"? That's a really stupid thing to say, even by Edna standards.
lulz
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KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Offline ednksu

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2015, 11:54:36 AM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)

I really enjoy you posting things that back up what the majority of gender gap proponents claim.  The issue is only part head to head comparisons. The larger issue, which your link backs up, is this idea that women "gravitate" towards certain professions.  It blatantly ignores the sociological factors which are at play.  Then showing the absurdity even further, we see that many of these jobs which are held up as near head to head comparisons are held by men 90% of the time.  Because, ya know, women don't like computers and sciencey things. Next talking point will be about oh women just don't work hard enough to get promotions to executive levels or that women want to take time off their careers so they aren't worthy of promotion.
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KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline 8manpick

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 12:39:28 PM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)

I really enjoy you posting things that back up what the majority of gender gap proponents claim.  The issue is only part head to head comparisons. The larger issue, which your link backs up, is this idea that women "gravitate" towards certain professions.  It blatantly ignores the sociological factors which are at play.  Then showing the absurdity even further, we see that many of these jobs which are held up as near head to head comparisons are held by men 90% of the time.  Because, ya know, women don't like computers and sciencey things. Next talking point will be about oh women just don't work hard enough to get promotions to executive levels or that women want to take time off their careers so they aren't worthy of promotion.

Do you truly believe that men and women are totally equal, (Equal as in drawn to the same things, having the same strengths and weaknesses, etc.) and the sociological factors are what cause all of these differences?  I'd argue that it is even more absurd to ignore genetic differences?
:adios:

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2015, 12:39:53 PM »
Guys, we really need to pass some laws to fix all these "societal pressures." I'm thinking we outlaw pink, for starters. The color pink. Also, no more Barbies.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2015, 12:41:01 PM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)

I really enjoy you posting things that back up what the majority of gender gap proponents claim.  The issue is only part head to head comparisons. The larger issue, which your link backs up, is this idea that women "gravitate" towards certain professions.  It blatantly ignores the sociological factors which are at play.  Then showing the absurdity even further, we see that many of these jobs which are held up as near head to head comparisons are held by men 90% of the time.  Because, ya know, women don't like computers and sciencey things. Next talking point will be about oh women just don't work hard enough to get promotions to executive levels or that women want to take time off their careers so they aren't worthy of promotion.

Do you truly believe that men and women are totally equal, (Equal as in drawn to the same things, having the same strengths and weaknesses, etc.) and the sociological factors are what cause all of these differences?  I'd argue that it is even more absurd to ignore genetic differences?

Edna's either a complete dumbass or a good troll. Really puts the tard in libtard. Don't try to reason with him - just mock him.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2015, 12:52:57 PM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)

I really enjoy you posting things that back up what the majority of gender gap proponents claim.  The issue is only part head to head comparisons. The larger issue, which your link backs up, is this idea that women "gravitate" towards certain professions.  It blatantly ignores the sociological factors which are at play.  Then showing the absurdity even further, we see that many of these jobs which are held up as near head to head comparisons are held by men 90% of the time.  Because, ya know, women don't like computers and sciencey things. Next talking point will be about oh women just don't work hard enough to get promotions to executive levels or that women want to take time off their careers so they aren't worthy of promotion.

Do you truly believe that men and women are totally equal, (Equal as in drawn to the same things, having the same strengths and weaknesses, etc.) and the sociological factors are what cause all of these differences?  I'd argue that it is even more absurd to ignore genetic differences?

Edna's either a complete dumbass or a good troll. Really puts the tard in libtard. Don't try to reason with him - just mock him.

That one
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2015, 02:59:44 PM »
i want someone to tell me that per unit of normalized time effort, women get paid the same.

i tend to believe that not to be the case, but society has of course conditioned me in that way.

What do you mean by normalized time effort? Normalized by what?

Offline puniraptor

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2015, 03:01:09 PM »
i want someone to tell me that per unit of normalized time effort, women get paid the same.

i tend to believe that not to be the case, but society has of course conditioned me in that way.

What do you mean by normalized time effort? Normalized by what?

unit time normalized per effort

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2015, 03:10:35 PM »
i want someone to tell me that per unit of normalized time effort, women get paid the same.

i tend to believe that not to be the case, but society has of course conditioned me in that way.

What do you mean by normalized time effort? Normalized by what?

unit time normalized per effort

So you mean subtracting out each person's BBSing time...

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2015, 03:12:15 PM »
Obviously a huge part of the so-called wage gap is due to choices the majority of women make. If you are constantly having kids and taking off work for it, it is going to negatively affect your career - if you don't want that to happen then don't have kids.

Same thing for taking time off to be a stay-at-home mom, you are missing out on years of experience as well as probably forgetting a bunch of your knowledge because you aren't using it on a daily basis. That is a choice that each individual has to make - making the most money is not the most important thing to some people, and that is fine but it should be accounted for when calculating the gender wage gap.

It's true that traditionally women choose professions with lower pay but in this day and age women can choose the higher paying professions if they want. Or men can choose to be stay-at-home dads if they want and their situation allows it.

Offline ednksu

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2015, 03:31:57 PM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)

I really enjoy you posting things that back up what the majority of gender gap proponents claim.  The issue is only part head to head comparisons. The larger issue, which your link backs up, is this idea that women "gravitate" towards certain professions.  It blatantly ignores the sociological factors which are at play.  Then showing the absurdity even further, we see that many of these jobs which are held up as near head to head comparisons are held by men 90% of the time.  Because, ya know, women don't like computers and sciencey things. Next talking point will be about oh women just don't work hard enough to get promotions to executive levels or that women want to take time off their careers so they aren't worthy of promotion.

Do you truly believe that men and women are totally equal, (Equal as in drawn to the same things, having the same strengths and weaknesses, etc.) and the sociological factors are what cause all of these differences?  I'd argue that it is even more absurd to ignore genetic differences?

Edna's either a complete dumbass or a good troll. Really puts the tard in libtard. Don't try to reason with him - just mock him.

That one

What the eff is your problem?
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KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2015, 03:36:39 PM »
Obviously a huge part of the so-called wage gap is due to choices the majority of women make. If you are constantly having kids and taking off work for it, it is going to negatively affect your career - if you don't want that to happen then don't have kids.

Same thing for taking time off to be a stay-at-home mom, you are missing out on years of experience as well as probably forgetting a bunch of your knowledge because you aren't using it on a daily basis. That is a choice that each individual has to make - making the most money is not the most important thing to some people, and that is fine but it should be accounted for when calculating the gender wage gap.

It's true that traditionally women choose professions with lower pay but in this day and age women can choose the higher paying professions if they want. Or men can choose to be stay-at-home dads if they want and their situation allows it.

Yeah, but you're ignoring the "societal pressures" that push subconsciously force many women to value children over careers. Because I guess those silly little ladies just aren't smart enough to overcome those societal pressures...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline ednksu

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2015, 03:43:35 PM »
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap?r=1

Linked from the front page of a known conservative circle jerk (Reddit)

I really enjoy you posting things that back up what the majority of gender gap proponents claim.  The issue is only part head to head comparisons. The larger issue, which your link backs up, is this idea that women "gravitate" towards certain professions.  It blatantly ignores the sociological factors which are at play.  Then showing the absurdity even further, we see that many of these jobs which are held up as near head to head comparisons are held by men 90% of the time.  Because, ya know, women don't like computers and sciencey things. Next talking point will be about oh women just don't work hard enough to get promotions to executive levels or that women want to take time off their careers so they aren't worthy of promotion.

Do you truly believe that men and women are totally equal, (Equal as in drawn to the same things, having the same strengths and weaknesses, etc.) and the sociological factors are what cause all of these differences?  I'd argue that it is even more absurd to ignore genetic differences?

Not saying that at all, and you've taken my post to an extreme that I would obviously never argue.  Of course there are certain differences between the two sexes at a biological level.  But the sociological constructs also play into how women pick careers, and that is unarguably more important for me in this issue.  Look at the language used to construct these arguments.  Gendered language, talking about women being better suited for certain careers or that women naturally don't take to certain topics.  The easiest example to me in this differentiation is medicine where women are 'naturally suited' to be nurses because they are supposed to be caring and nurturing whereas men 'should be' doctors because of their gravitation towards the sciences or because they have the mental fortitude to deal with the job's stresses. 


But lets look further at various studies about female performance in high stress high wage jobs.  Women who are seen as aggressive in the work place are often accused of being overly aggressive or bitchy.  Men are excused as being competitors driven to succeed.  Women have negative pressure put on them from even entering into these jobs.  While schooling has improved, the hard sciences, engineering, and computer related fields are still overly dominated by men.  Its clear that these are not because of genetic differences but a system which for decades drove women away from hard sciences.   

The other issue which has some backing are promotion systems which value the labor of women less because of the potential 'risk' of pregnancy and child care.  That has been one reason pointed to for why women have been putting off having families till later in life, career improvement that is. But lets not forget that the US lags behind the rest of the developed world in things like access to paid maternity leave, child care, and healthcare.  All of these factor into women being marginalized in the work place if they want to have a career and a family. 

While idiots like KSUW want to control for any factor which implicitly proves their position in error, a simple logical look at the facts shows that women do have a disadvantage on average in either access to jobs or payment and advancement in those jobs. Individual cases of women advancing in boardrooms are the exception not the rule.
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KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2015, 03:44:28 PM »
Obviously a huge part of the so-called wage gap is due to choices the majority of women make. If you are constantly having kids and taking off work for it, it is going to negatively affect your career - if you don't want that to happen then don't have kids.

Same thing for taking time off to be a stay-at-home mom, you are missing out on years of experience as well as probably forgetting a bunch of your knowledge because you aren't using it on a daily basis. That is a choice that each individual has to make - making the most money is not the most important thing to some people, and that is fine but it should be accounted for when calculating the gender wage gap.

It's true that traditionally women choose professions with lower pay but in this day and age women can choose the higher paying professions if they want. Or men can choose to be stay-at-home dads if they want and their situation allows it.

Yeah, but you're ignoring the "societal pressures" that push subconsciously force many women to value children over careers. Because I guess those silly little ladies just aren't smart enough to overcome those societal pressures...

Maybe we should be overcoming the societal pressure on men to be the bread winners.

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2015, 03:56:31 PM »
I thought society already had this discussion and it turned out the problem was that women don't like other women?

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Gender Wage Gap
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2015, 03:56:47 PM »
The other day I was in a meeting and we were discussing how long a task was going to take. One of the guys said "That will only take about a man-hour. Well actually it will take a Mrs.Gooch-hour." (because I'm the person who would be doing the task)

And then I said, "That's worth way more than one man-hour."  :lol:

That was probably sexist of me wasn't it?