State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools

[Stellarcat]

What incentive is there to change then?

Actually, the incentive to change (because of teacher evals linked to testing, NCLB, etc.) has sucked the creativity right out of teaching.  It is more difficult to implement new ideas, because the kids are constantly either testing or preparing for testing.

The best time of the year is after assessments are over.  For that month or so, even though summer was approaching and the kids were ready to be out of school, my students would always learn a lot.  Hands on history and science projects, career fairs (complete with resume writing, interviewing, skills application), math projects that applied to the real world....we all loved it.

[Stellarcat]

Speaking of teacher evaluations linked to test scores...

I am a part time school counselor.  My evaluation is partially based on the assessment scores of our 3rd and 4th graders.  I don't even get to work with those grade levels b/c of my part time status (my job description is ridiculous, but that is a different story).

[Cartierfor3]

I think we should end standardized tests. 100% serious.

[Cartierfor3]

Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.

Bam. I just fixed schools.

CaseClosed.WC08.gif

[CNS]

Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.

Bam. I just fixed schools.

CaseClosed.WC08.gif

I suggest you check out who is actually on your local school board, and how together their own crap is, before you declare success.

[Stellarcat]

Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.

Bam. I just fixed schools.

CaseClosed.WC08.gif

So how exactly would the PTA determine if the school was not doing a good enough job?  Would they all agree on what their children should be learning at a given grade level? 

[CNS]

What incentive is there to change then?

Actually, the incentive to change (because of teacher evals linked to testing, NCLB, etc.) has sucked the creativity right out of teaching.  It is more difficult to implement new ideas, because the kids are constantly either testing or preparing for testing.

The best time of the year is after assessments are over.  For that month or so, even though summer was approaching and the kids were ready to be out of school, my students would always learn a lot.  Hands on history and science projects, career fairs (complete with resume writing, interviewing, skills application), math projects that applied to the real world....we all loved it.

I am all for allowing more teachers to do their own thing but if there are still unmotivated administrators and budget issues, that won't change much other than one individual classroom here and there. 

[Spracne]

We need to identify the under-performing students, and then give their parents a boatload of cash.  Studies show that children of wealthier parents perform markedly better in school.

[Cartierfor3]

Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.

Bam. I just fixed schools.

CaseClosed.WC08.gif

So how exactly would the PTA determine if the school was not doing a good enough job?  Would they all agree on what their children should be learning at a given grade level?

I said PTA or WHATEVER.

[michigancat]

I think you need standardized tests of some sort, or it'll be next to impossible to know what's working and what isn't. But I don't think it's a very good/fair way to evaluate teachers.

[CNS]

Teacher eval is a tough subject.  It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress. 

[Cartierfor3]

I think you need standardized tests of some sort, or it'll be next to impossible to know what's working and what isn't. But I don't think it's a very good/fair way to evaluate teachers.

1 per year per student.

[michigancat]

Teacher eval is a tough subject.  It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress. 

yes. Was it you that shared that podcast from Sweden? IMO the best way to ensure teachers will perform is to weed out people early - make it difficult to get into a teaching education program.

[CNS]

Teacher eval is a tough subject.  It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress. 

yes. Was it you that shared that podcast from Sweden? IMO the best way to ensure teachers will perform is to weed out people early - make it difficult to get into a teaching education program.

Yeah, that was my share.  I did like the idea on making it difficult to get into.  However, they also made it high paying.  So, good luck with that around here.

[michigancat]

Teacher eval is a tough subject.  It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress. 

yes. Was it you that shared that podcast from Sweden? IMO the best way to ensure teachers will perform is to weed out people early - make it difficult to get into a teaching education program.

Yeah, that was my share.  I did like the idea on making it difficult to get into.  However, they also made it high paying.  So, good luck with that around here.

raise the requirements and let the market take care of itself

[Mr Bread]

I would imagine a lot of them don't.

Seriously?

Anecdotally, yes.  I've encountered far more unimpressive educators in my life (below the college level) than I have those that were legitimately bright.  Many if not most were run of the mill dumbasses.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again.  Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.

Browny also suggested that school distrticts get money based on performance:
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8639078.html

“Let’s spend that two years writing a finance formula that gets money to the classroom, and I’d like it to have some incentives tied with performance,” Brownback said Friday. “Are the kids reading at the fourth-grade level when they get to fourth grade? When you leave high school, are you either ready to go to college or go to work?

“I’d rather you’d be both, ready to do both, but are you? And we want to pay that you will be, and if you’re not, then you should be penalized for it because that’s what you’re supposed to get done.”

 

I think Sam structured those last 2 sentences at a 5th grade level.

[Cire]

Cuts

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.

[Stellarcat]

Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.

Dear God, do people have any idea what even goes on in schools before spouting the "failing" comments?  Please give me specific examples of how exactly our Kansas schools are failing.  The expectations on these kids are sky high...MUCH HIGHER than when I was in school.  The stakes are sky high as well.  I just get so sick of people who have no education or child development background proclaiming the schools, teachers, and students to be failures. 

Have you read studies about how skewed the data is when comparing our ed data to that of other countries?  Poverty is the number one factor in determining at-risk students. For a little light reading on the subject, check this out.

http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/

[CNS]

Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.

if we are talking drastic, we need to talk parents.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.

Dear God, do people have any idea what even goes on in schools before spouting the "failing" comments?  Please give me specific examples of how exactly our Kansas schools are failing.  The expectations on these kids are sky high...MUCH HIGHER than when I was in school.  The stakes are sky high as well.  I just get so sick of people who have no education or child development background proclaiming the schools, teachers, and students to be failures. 

Have you read studies about how skewed the data is when comparing our ed data to that of other countries?  Poverty is the number one factor in determining at-risk students. For a little light reading on the subject, check this out.

http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/

I'm far from an expert on education, but common sense would indicate that you are correct in that poverty (or more likely terrible parenting, but they go hand in hand) is the most significant factor in a child's education. However, the same common sense also dictates that simply shoveling more money into schools won't fix that problem.

I think our schools could probably get by with a quite a bit less money - they should focus more on the fundamentals, consolidate, and shed a lot of redundant administrative positions. Schools are susceptible to the same bloat as any other government-funded bureaucracy.

[michigancat]

If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?

[Rage Against the McKee]

If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?

They don't have to go home to shitty parents.

[Stellarcat]

If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?

They have likely had a lot of enrichment opportunities, preschool, parents who read to them when they are young, etc.