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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: bubbles4ksu on January 15, 2015, 11:49:13 AM
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Let's all watch and discuss Sam blaming the poor's position on their unchristian morality.
Bombardier announces layoffs; 620 Wichita employees affected (http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/bombardier-cutting-1000-jobs-in-us-mexico/30720066)
Go Sam Go!
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what does this have to do with brownback?
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what does this have to do with brownback?
important jobs news for sam's experiment on the day of his address.
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what does this have to do with brownback?
important jobs news for sam's experiment on the day of his address.
true, it will affect numbers. i'm not defending brownback, fwiw, just doesn't really seem to have anything to do with kansas policy.
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Yeah this is a weird butthurty thread.
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Sam's fault the private jet industry is stalling.
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
Maybe higher taxes would keep them in the state? :dunno:
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=34076.msg1282255#msg1282255
ron paul its about to happen.jpeg
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
Maybe higher taxes would keep them in the state? :dunno:
oh you mean like in rational states where people pay taxes for crap like roads and schools? yeah i'm pretty sure good schools are referred to as a "pull factor", but I'd have to check zillow or some crap.
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
Maybe higher taxes would keep them in the state? :dunno:
Were we comparing as poorly to our neighbors and the nation when taxes were higher?
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
Maybe higher taxes would keep them in the state? :dunno:
oh you mean like in rational states where people pay taxes for crap like roads and schools? yeah i'm pretty sure good schools are referred to as a "pull factor", but I'd have to check zillow or some crap.
:lol: Yes, I'm sure people are leaving the state because of Sam's bad tax policy. I'm sure businesses are deciding whether to leave or relocate to Kansas based upon whether we pay $13k or $13.5k per pupil to schools. I can just see it now...
Hey Jim, I'm thinking of relocating our company to Kansas.
But Bob, I heard they've got a crazy governor there who's cutting taxes.
[Audible Gasp] Gee, I hadn't considered that. Won't that jeopardize teacher pensions?
Yeah, that just sounds like a terrible business climate. Maybe we just move to Texas instead like everyone else.
You know what? I'm just going to go out on a limb and definitively state that exactly 3 people have moved out of the state due to Sam cutting taxes, and they are all libtards who are butthurt about Sam's reelection.
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Now: Unreasonable to expect things like tax policy and education spending to be reason for ppl moving out.
Then: Reasonable to expect things like tax policy to make ppl move into the state.
Hmm.....
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A sensible person would probably add back the jobs lost to the cyclical airline manufacturer to see the real picture. Just saying
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Now: Unreasonable to expect things like tax policy and education spending to be reason for ppl moving out.
Then: Reasonable to expect things like tax policy to make ppl move into the state.
Hmm.....
If you honestly can't see the difference between those two ideas, I don't think you understand the difference between cutting taxes and increasing taxes.
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
We didn't crash as hard as our neighbors, bud. You can't seriously be this manipulated by rhetoric.
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
We didn't crash as hard as our neighbors, bud. You can't seriously be this manipulated by rhetoric.
Are percentages and rhetoric the same thing? If so, I am totally manipulated by them.
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Heard a stat on the radio last week saying KS is like #7 in the nation for the rate that ppl are moving out of state.
So, we recover and grow slower than our immediate neighbors and ppl are leaving more than almost all other states in the country. When do we hit the other side of Sam's curve on his experiment?
We didn't crash as hard as our neighbors, bud. You can't seriously be this manipulated by rhetoric.
Are percentages and rhetoric the same thing? If so, I am totally manipulated by them.
Often and obviously
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Liberals are to blame for people moving away from kansas and everyone knows it
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Ppl move out. Butthurt, obvs.
Ppl move in. Good political policy has to be the reason.
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i think i'll read a book instead. i'll read the recap later.
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Do people really watch these? I honestly didn't know they were televised.
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What happened? What color suit did he wear? Tie?
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Do people really watch these? I honestly didn't know they were televised.
i was going to ask if it was on television, but decided that i didn't care if the answer was yes or no
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Ya know what would have people flocking into Kansas? Up the per student expenditure by 50%.
Couple in beautiful place:
Look honey, Kansas increased their per pupil expenditure in their public schools by 50%!!
I'm on the phone with the realtor now sweetheart.
It would make a difference to me. :dunno:
Unfortunately the low taxes hasn't created any jobs I want. :frown:
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
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you lower ed spending fan boys should be the biggest cheerleaders for the reform of the ed process. Just cutting crap doesn't work in the public sphere. It needs a complete overhaul to operate on much less.
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
eff you can't have a conversation can you.
How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy? How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?
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you lower ed spending fan boys should be the biggest cheerleaders for the reform of the ed process. Just cutting crap doesn't work in the public sphere. It needs a complete overhaul to operate on much less.
who needs all these schools with their "books" and "maps"? Look at how great this was!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs.sidereel.com%2Fepisodes%2F10215%2Ffeatured%2F263747.jpg&hash=bcf45d765631bbc03f769dc78637a0a331c876e5)
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I used my internet browser skills to look up the state budget and actual expenditures. The last 2 years Kansas has spent the most money it ever has on education. By hundreds of millions of dollars.
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I used my internet browser skills to look up the state budget and actual expenditures. The last 2 years Kansas has spent the most money it ever has on education. By hundreds of millions of dollars.
FSD doesn't adjust for inflation because of Kansas education
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
eff you can't have a conversation can you.
How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy? How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?
The keynsian European welfare state is clearly the better model!!!! Real life data proves it!!!!!
It's cute when Edna quips about economics.
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I used my internet browser skills to look up the state budget and actual expenditures. The last 2 years Kansas has spent the most money it ever has on education. By hundreds of millions of dollars.
FSD doesn't adjust for inflation because of Kansas education
:lol: :lol: Yes all that massive inflation we've had over the last 5 years...
I really enjoy this in light of the fact that both inflation metrics released this week showed prices declining.
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I used my internet browser skills to look up the state budget and actual expenditures. The last 2 years Kansas has spent the most money it ever has on education. By hundreds of millions of dollars.
FSD doesn't adjust for inflation because of Kansas education
:lol: :lol: Yes all that massive inflation we've had over the last 5 years...
I really enjoy this in light of the fact that both inflation metrics released this week showed prices declining.
You killed it, there has been no inflation in the past 5 years.
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
eff you can't have a conversation can you.
How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy? How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?
The keynsian European welfare state is clearly the better model!!!! Real life data proves it!!!!!
It's cute when Edna quips about economics.
Thanks for the strawman instead of defending your decried economics. I'll take that as a tap out.
I mean if you really want to get your system against "mine" I'll gladly talk gilded age versus Keynesian.
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I would imagine that the #1 component of the ed expenditure make up is facilities.
We should do everything possible to make them more efficient. Full MEP overhauls to get the highest ROI equipment/parts/pieces available.
Also, sports. We should cut them all together. The municipalities can pick up leagues for 16y/o's just like they do for 6 y/o's, and parents can pay for the participation. I heard a stat yesterday that the avg high school spends $5 per student on football for every $1 they spend per student on math. I would be fine cutting band, choir, etc as long as music and art type classes were kept strong. Again, let the muni pick up programs for that.
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I would imagine that the #1 component of the ed expenditure make up is facilities.
We should do everything possible to make them more efficient. Full MEP overhauls to get the highest ROI equipment/parts/pieces available.
Also, sports. We should cut them all together. The municipalities can pick up leagues for 16y/o's just like they do for 6 y/o's, and parents can pay for the participation. I heard a stat yesterday that the avg high school spends $5 per student on football for every $1 they spend per student on math. I would be fine cutting band, choir, etc as long as music and art type classes were kept strong. Again, let the muni pick up programs for that.
this is tricky, because then poor kids often can't play organized sports. Maybe just cut football.
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I would imagine that the #1 component of the ed expenditure make up is facilities.
We should do everything possible to make them more efficient. Full MEP overhauls to get the highest ROI equipment/parts/pieces available.
Also, sports. We should cut them all together. The municipalities can pick up leagues for 16y/o's just like they do for 6 y/o's, and parents can pay for the participation. I heard a stat yesterday that the avg high school spends $5 per student on football for every $1 they spend per student on math. I would be fine cutting band, choir, etc as long as music and art type classes were kept strong. Again, let the muni pick up programs for that.
this is tricky, because then poor kids often can't play organized sports. Maybe just cut football.
My town offers little league football. It is $250 per kid to play. All other little league sports are $35-$40. My town, like most I assume, offer discounted rates to ppl with low/no income.
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The ppl I know who have kids in competitive leagues(the kind where the coach is paid, they travel a bunch, etc) hold all kinds of bake sales/fund raisers to fund their kids' ridic priced non-school sponsored league. Why not keep doing that?
Often when I am downtown, I see kids on medians raising money for AAU and other type teams. Again, maybe keep doing that? :dunno:
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I would imagine that the #1 component of the ed expenditure make up is facilities.
We should do everything possible to make them more efficient. Full MEP overhauls to get the highest ROI equipment/parts/pieces available.
Also, sports. We should cut them all together. The municipalities can pick up leagues for 16y/o's just like they do for 6 y/o's, and parents can pay for the participation. I heard a stat yesterday that the avg high school spends $5 per student on football for every $1 they spend per student on math. I would be fine cutting band, choir, etc as long as music and art type classes were kept strong. Again, let the muni pick up programs for that.
Ive thought about this. I think that would get peoples attention if their little football star couldn't play anymore.
It would take some much needed balls for somebody to propose that and wake people up. We should be stressing math and science, and not bragging rights over a game.
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Yes all that massive inflation we've had over the last 5 years...
I really enjoy this in light of the fact that both inflation metrics released this week showed prices declining.
good job, the fed.
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
It's good for your health and teaches kids a lot of valuable lessons.
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I used my internet browser skills to look up the state budget and actual expenditures. The last 2 years Kansas has spent the most money it ever has on education. By hundreds of millions of dollars.
FSD doesn't adjust for inflation because of Kansas education
:lol: :lol: Yes all that massive inflation we've had over the last 5 years...
I really enjoy this in light of the fact that both inflation metrics released this week showed prices declining.
You killed it, there has been no inflation in the past 5 years.
If you're suggesting the amount of money spent on education has increased at a rate slower than inflation, you are insane.
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
It's good for your health and teaches kids a lot of valuable lessons.
I agree. I would still put my kids in sports. The schools just shouldn't be the ones putting this together.
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
what should poor kids do instead?
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It's good for your health and teaches kids a lot of valuable lessons.
same is true of hard physical labor. and the state could be paid for the children's efforts instead of wasting tax dollars on recreation.
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
what should poor kids do instead?
Play for their muni's team on a subsidized/reduced entry fee as they do now for little league sports.
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
eff you can't have a conversation can you.
How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy? How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?
The keynsian European welfare state is clearly the better model!!!! Real life data proves it!!!!!
It's cute when Edna quips about economics.
Thanks for the strawman instead of defending your decried economics. I'll take that as a tap out.
I mean if you really want to get your system against "mine" I'll gladly talk gilded age versus Keynesian.
"Strawman"!!!!
It's cute how the libtards immediate retort to every fact raised that completely undermines their unfounded point of view is "strawman". Never once has that term been correctly used by the libtarded.
We come to Fantasy Land, population partisan drone libtards
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
what should poor kids do instead?
play free sports on their own time? i dunno, what do third world children do to stay in so much better shape than the fat little monsters we have in this country?
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It's good for your health and teaches kids a lot of valuable lessons.
same is true of hard physical labor. and the state could be paid for the children's efforts instead of wasting tax dollars on recreation.
I don't think hard physical labor teaches lessons, and it could be detrimental to their health.
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
what should poor kids do instead?
Play for their muni's team on a subsidized/reduced entry fee as they do now for little league sports.
wouldn't that make one less reason for poor kids to go school?
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
what should poor kids do instead?
play free sports on their own time? i dunno, what do third world children do to stay in so much better shape than the fat little monsters we have in this country?
I have LTWIQ but i think they play soccer :dunno:
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high schools playing football is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). playing any sports is at best unnecessary. i don't know why michigancat thinks kansas should encourage poor children to waste their time playing sports.
what should poor kids do instead?
Play for their muni's team on a subsidized/reduced entry fee as they do now for little league sports.
wouldn't that make one less reason for poor kids to go school?
If we are using sports to keep any kid getting C's so that he/she can play sports, well we are doing it(education) completely wrong.
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Like, I don't have a big problem with dropping sports, (especially football), but is that really much of a problem with education budgets? The $5 on football for $1 on math comment seems misleading at best. this whole discussion just feels like a red herring
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also, third world children probably eat less junk food
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Like, I don't have a big problem with dropping sports, (especially football), but is that really much of a problem with education budgets? The $5 on football for $1 on math comment seems misleading at best. this whole discussion just feels like a red herring
It may be. I heard it in a podcast yesterday. Some lady was looking hard at South Korea and Finland for educational differences from US. One was sports and she shot out a couple stats, the 5:1 thing being the biggest one.
She had some really interesting notes from her study(now a book). Podcast was an epi of This....Is Interesting, if anyone is interested.
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also, third world children probably eat less junk food
they get a lot of great exercise walking to the nearest empty field to play sports with the other local third world children in their free time.
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I don't think hard physical labor teaches lessons, and it could be detrimental to their health.
i'd like to see the data on workplace injuries v sports injuries.
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Like, I don't have a big problem with dropping sports, (especially football), but is that really much of a problem with education budgets? The $5 on football for $1 on math comment seems misleading at best. this whole discussion just feels like a red herring
It may be. I heard it in a podcast yesterday. Some lady was looking hard at South Korea and Finland for educational differences from US. One was sports and she shot out a couple stats, the 5:1 thing being the biggest one.
She had some really interesting notes from her study(now a book). Podcast was an epi of This....Is Interesting, if anyone is interested.
It's this, I think:
http://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/this-is-interesting/the-smartest-kids-in-the-world-are-not-in-the-u-s
I don't like how they just throw around the word "smart". Just bugged me in the first couple of minutes. I'll definitely listen to the whole thing though and maybe even read the book.
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I don't think hard physical labor teaches lessons, and it could be detrimental to their health.
i'd like to see the data on workplace injuries v sports injuries.
"hard labor" is pretty vague, too.
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Like, I don't have a big problem with dropping sports, (especially football), but is that really much of a problem with education budgets? The $5 on football for $1 on math comment seems misleading at best. this whole discussion just feels like a red herring
It may be. I heard it in a podcast yesterday. Some lady was looking hard at South Korea and Finland for educational differences from US. One was sports and she shot out a couple stats, the 5:1 thing being the biggest one.
She had some really interesting notes from her study(now a book). Podcast was an epi of This....Is Interesting, if anyone is interested.
It's this, I think:
http://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/this-is-interesting/the-smartest-kids-in-the-world-are-not-in-the-u-s
I don't like how they just throw around the word "smart". Just bugged me in the first couple of minutes. I'll definitely listen to the whole thing though and maybe even read the book.
Yep, that is it. If you hated that, just wait to hear how often the host uses "fetish". Kinda creepy.
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"hey, our children are fat and lazy, any ideas?''
"well, in the fall we could spend 5x our math budget to ship the largest males off to other schools to ram into the largest males at those schools. then in the winter, the tallest males and females could jump up and down beneath metal hoops until a suitable fraction have ankle and knee problems. in the spring, the ones with the best hand eye coordination can use a club to try to hit a small ball thrown at them by whatever child in a nearby town has the best throwing ability. the children can take turns with the hitting, they can sit on a bench and chew stuff while they wait.''
"males and females?"
"the females should use a larger ball."
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"hard labor" is pretty vague, too.
sorry. gardening, the poor children should garden. the growing of food will teach them lessons and help feed their beleaguered families. now just look up the data on sports vs gardening injuries.
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"hey, our children are fat and lazy, any ideas?''
"well, in the fall we could spend 5x our math budget to ship the largest males off to other schools to ram into the largest males at those schools. then in the winter, the tallest males and females could jump up and down beneath metal hoops until a suitable fraction have ankle and knee problems. in the spring, the ones with the best hand eye coordination can use a club to try to hit a small ball thrown at them by whatever child in a nearby town has the best throwing ability. the children can take turns with the hitting, they can sit on a bench and chew stuff while they wait.''
"males and females?"
"the females should use a larger ball."
I enjoyed this
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"hey, our children are fat and lazy, any ideas?''
"well, in the fall we could spend 5x our math budget to ship the largest males off to other schools to ram into the largest males at those schools. then in the winter, the tallest males and females could jump up and down beneath metal hoops until a suitable fraction have ankle and knee problems. in the spring, the ones with the best hand eye coordination can use a club to try to hit a small ball thrown at them by whatever child in a nearby town has the best throwing ability. the children can take turns with the hitting, they can sit on a bench and chew stuff while they wait.''
"males and females?"
"the females should use a larger ball."
:lol:
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I used my internet browser skills to look up the state budget and actual expenditures. The last 2 years Kansas has spent the most money it ever has on education. By hundreds of millions of dollars.
FSD doesn't adjust for inflation because of Kansas education
:lol: :lol: Yes all that massive inflation we've had over the last 5 years...
I really enjoy this in light of the fact that both inflation metrics released this week showed prices declining.
You killed it, there has been no inflation in the past 5 years.
If you're suggesting the amount of money spent on education has increased at a rate slower than inflation, you are insane.
I'm suggesting they are not spending OMG SO MUCH MORE on education that Brownback needs to make a point in his address about cutting the crap out of education.
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it's kind of funny that in basketball the ball size is opposite
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wow, south korean schools sound awful. no thanks.
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wow, south korean schools sound awful. no thanks.
Yeah. Finland(I think it was Finland) sounds pretty great, though.
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wait, she says we train twice as many teachers as we need? :dubious:
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Elevating the teaching profession (like Finland) is something I've mentioned many times on this blog.
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Yeah, I don't believe her stat about math/football, and I don't think anyone considers sports as a "main mission" of schools as she asserts. she shouldn't even mention it and should focus on elevating the teaching profession IMO.
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Yeah, I don't believe her stat about math/football, and I don't think anyone considers sports as a "main mission" of schools as she asserts. she shouldn't even mention it and should focus on elevating the teaching profession IMO.
link to these claims/stats?
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Yeah, I don't believe her stat about math/football, and I don't think anyone considers sports as a "main mission" of schools as she asserts. she shouldn't even mention it and should focus on elevating the teaching profession IMO.
link to these claims/stats?
It's in the podcast I linked to. I'll look for the stats
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Like I don't even know where to start with the 5x as much on football as math. It is absurd on its face.
Total construction budget of football stadia in a district + equipment/facilities/maintenance + coaching/administrative salaries + transportation + substitutes
is nowhere near the cost of
all math faculty + curriculum/materials + facilities even leaving out the administrators/support staff
Like it is at a minimum an incredibly dishonest distortion of an actual school district's budget. My guess? It is some sort of incredibly lazy aggregate spending dollar figure that she has found because it fits her narrative.
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I found this (from the same author that was on the podcast):
Football at Premont cost about $1,300 a player. Math, by contrast, cost just $618 a student
n many schools, sports are so entrenched that no one—not even the people in charge—realizes their actual cost. When Marguerite Roza, the author of Educational Economics, analyzed the finances of one public high school in the Pacific Northwest, she and her colleagues found that the school was spending $328 a student for math instruction and more than four times that much for cheerleading—$1,348 a cheerleader.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/
Can't her point be made without distorting facts? It just makes me dislike her and question everything she says.
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The key word there is per student. What does that mean?
It would be incredibly dishonest to use "per student" to mean "per student participating" and then take the amount of money that it costs to field the football teams each year vs. the amount of students enrolled in math and the costs for that.
If that isn't the trick, then they are leaving out tons of costs on the math side.
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"Football at Premont cost about $1,300 a player. Math, by contrast, cost just $618 a student."
Yep that is exactly what they did.
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They saved $150,000/yr. By suspending all sports for an entire high school. That isn't nothing, but for comparison, one large Kansas district is attempting to save over $1 million/yr by cutting back on the electric bill.
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Like I said before I listened to the podcast - it's a red herring. This thread is evidence.
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Well, there you go. Cut my suggestion of sports and stick to my first suggestion of facilities.
There are plenty of contractors out there that sell new MEP equipt to schools that have a quick ROI. Before I left my last job, the company was establishing a partnership with a local MEP designer and then offer to design replacement MEP systems, install new equipt, finance the cost over a 10yr period, and the utility savings over first ten yrs would pay for the cost of the work. I have no idea how it worked out since I left, but basically, other than maint, it is like free new stuff for 10 yrs, and afterward huge savings.
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"hey, our children are fat and lazy, any ideas?''
"well, in the fall we could spend 5x our math budget to ship the largest males off to other schools to ram into the largest males at those schools. then in the winter, the tallest males and females could jump up and down beneath metal hoops until a suitable fraction have ankle and knee problems. in the spring, the ones with the best hand eye coordination can use a club to try to hit a small ball thrown at them by whatever child in a nearby town has the best throwing ability. the children can take turns with the hitting, they can sit on a bench and chew stuff while they wait.''
"males and females?"
"the females should use a larger ball."
:thumbs:
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They saved $150,000/yr. By suspending all sports for an entire high school. That isn't nothing, but for comparison, one large Kansas district is attempting to save over $1 million/yr by cutting back on the electric bill.
that's total compensation for one tenured California teacher.
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
eff you can't have a conversation can you.
How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy? How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?
The keynsian European welfare state is clearly the better model!!!! Real life data proves it!!!!!
It's cute when Edna quips about economics.
Thanks for the strawman instead of defending your decried economics. I'll take that as a tap out.
I mean if you really want to get your system against "mine" I'll gladly talk gilded age versus Keynesian.
"Strawman"!!!!
It's cute how the libtards immediate retort to every fact raised that completely undermines their unfounded point of view is "strawman". Never once has that term been correctly used by the libtarded.
We come to Fantasy Land, population partisan drone libtards
I seriously think you're mentally disabled. Like I hope you live in a group home.
You can't inoculate against a position and then give a textbook definition of that position. You created an argument to argue against when nothing like it was mentioned. Its like saying anyone who mentions Godwin doesn't know what the eff he is talking about and then going on a rant about how Germany got so much right in the late 30s and 40s with their "reforms".
Seriously rough ridin' stupid.
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I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.
My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.
My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.
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My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process. In some cases it only gives administrators license to create more and more worthless administrators who have zero impact on actually improving the education of students.
Right. Plus buying all these toys that are just making kids dumber.
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My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process.
no one says that
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My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process.
no one says that
No, but many say that we need to spend more to give our kids a quality education, which is almost as stupid.
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They saved $150,000/yr. By suspending all sports for an entire high school. That isn't nothing, but for comparison, one large Kansas district is attempting to save over $1 million/yr by cutting back on the electric bill.
that's total compensation for one tenured California teacher.
Salary + benefits + pension for a 20+ year employee? Probably so.
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My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process. In some cases it only gives administrators license to create more and more worthless administrators who have zero impact on actually improving the education of students.
Dax the problem is that you have districts like 501 with no tax base, no special local option taxes, etc to fund the schools which have Ipads for every kid to use at recess. For christ sake Topeka West High School ran out of money for copy paper 5/8th through the school year a few years ago. You are better, but I know KSUWs, Fakes, and Johns of this board can't see past their white, middle class, suburban privileged noses to see that poor districts are the ones who are hurting. Rural districts are hurting, inner city districts are hurting. You know how taxes play a role into those equations. The average per pupil keeps these districts on life support, not spending money like a drunken sailor on ipads.
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I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.
My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.
My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.
Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students? I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.
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My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process. In some cases it only gives administrators license to create more and more worthless administrators who have zero impact on actually improving the education of students.
Right. Plus buying all these toys that are just making kids dumber.
LOL
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I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.
My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.
My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.
Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students? I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.
No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.
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case closed, money is bad for schools
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It would be incredibly dishonest to use "per student" to mean "per student participating" and then take the amount of money that it costs to field the football teams each year vs. the amount of students enrolled in math and the costs for that.
it's also disingenuous (not dishonest) to talk about the health benefits of organized scholastic sports, when only a small % of self-selected students participate.
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They saved $150,000/yr. By suspending all sports for an entire high school. That isn't nothing, but for comparison, one large Kansas district is attempting to save over $1 million/yr by cutting back on the electric bill.
that's total compensation for one tenured California teacher.
did they fire the fball coach who also pretends to teach classes in his spare time?
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It would be incredibly dishonest to use "per student" to mean "per student participating" and then take the amount of money that it costs to field the football teams each year vs. the amount of students enrolled in math and the costs for that.
it's also disingenuous (not dishonest) to talk about the health benefits of organized scholastic sports, when only a small % of self-selected students participate.
I'm not on NPR making my case, nor have I written a book on the subject or claim to be an expert.
I would easily be swayed in favor of eliminating all scholastic sports with a little better data on costs, how they are funded, and the impact they make on students. You've made very good points against scholastic sports (and all sports in general). However, in this particular discussion I think it takes attention away from more important reforms.
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it's a sideshow. i agree with you on that.
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They saved $150,000/yr. By suspending all sports for an entire high school. That isn't nothing, but for comparison, one large Kansas district is attempting to save over $1 million/yr by cutting back on the electric bill.
that's total compensation for one tenured California teacher.
did they fire the fball coach who also pretends to teach classes in his spare time?
I don't know about that one, but they were finally able to fire the one that fed at least 81 of his blindfolded students his semen on a cookie. Took a couple of years and the district had to pay him $40,000 to resign. He also cost the district $140 million to settle the lawsuits because they ignored complaints by students and parents over the years. Oh, he also gets his retirement pay while in jail. Union tenure.
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they were finally able to fire the one that fed at least 81 of his blindfolded students his semen on a cookie. Took a couple of years and the district had to pay him $40,000 to resign. He also cost the district $140 million to settle the lawsuits because they ignored complaints by students and parents over the years. Oh, he also gets his retirement pay while in jail. Union tenure.
i remember that story. i'm stealing this from adam carolla, but the only adult males that should allowed around children (that aren't there own) are the 99% that want nothing to do with children.
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I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will. Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma.
Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips.
Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong? How many more years of failure before with give this up?
Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working. The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit. Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?
Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).
But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher... :lol:
eff you can't have a conversation can you.
How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy? How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?
The keynsian European welfare state is clearly the better model!!!! Real life data proves it!!!!!
It's cute when Edna quips about economics.
Thanks for the strawman instead of defending your decried economics. I'll take that as a tap out.
I mean if you really want to get your system against "mine" I'll gladly talk gilded age versus Keynesian.
"Strawman"!!!!
It's cute how the libtards immediate retort to every fact raised that completely undermines their unfounded point of view is "strawman". Never once has that term been correctly used by the libtarded.
We come to Fantasy Land, population partisan drone libtards
I seriously think you're mentally disabled. Like I hope you live in a group home.
You can't inoculate against a position and then give a textbook definition of that position. You created an argument to argue against when nothing like it was mentioned. Its like saying anyone who mentions Godwin doesn't know what the eff he is talking about and then going on a rant about how Germany got so much right in the late 30s and 40s with their "reforms".
Seriously rough ridin' stupid.
"Slashing taxes does nothing to help the economy" is the premise of what you'd be arguing, so you've already lost.
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My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process. In some cases it only gives administrators license to create more and more worthless administrators who have zero impact on actually improving the education of students.
Dax the problem is that you have districts like 501 with no tax base, no special local option taxes, etc to fund the schools which have Ipads for every kid to use at recess. For christ sake Topeka West High School ran out of money for copy paper 5/8th through the school year a few years ago. You are better, but I know KSUWs, Fakes, and Johns of this board can't see past their white, middle class, suburban privileged noses to see that poor districts are the ones who are hurting. Rural districts are hurting, inner city districts are hurting. You know how taxes play a role into those equations. The average per pupil keeps these districts on life support, not spending money like a drunken sailor on ipads.
All school districts are appropriated the same exact amount of money per student, by law. Those that run out of copy paper are egregiously mismanaged by people who can't be fired. What a great system
If the mill levy isn't enough to buy copy paper, they should raise the mill levy.
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I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.
My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.
My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.
Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students? I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.
No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.
You still didn't explain it very well. Teachers are letting students play with their own electronics during recess?
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I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.
My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.
My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.
Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students? I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.
No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.
You still didn't explain it very well. Teachers are letting students play with their own electronics during recess?
If it's outdoor recess, they can play with their own. If it's indoor recess, they can play with the school iPads. The subway surfer game was on one of the school iPads. Who knows what's on the kids own stuff.
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Smokers and drinkers (sinners) got this guys. Case closed.
#TheWesIsTheFuture
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I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.
My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.
My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.
Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students? I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.
No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.
You still didn't explain it very well. Teachers are letting students play with their own electronics during recess?
If it's outdoor recess, they can play with their own. If it's indoor recess, they can play with the school iPads. The subway surfer game was on one of the school iPads. Who knows what's on the kids own stuff.
Well parents might want to monitor their kids own devices.
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Also, we talking bout recess? Recess?!
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In my school, the kids do get to use the classroom tablets during indoor recess. They can't bring their own devices. Teachers HATE indoor recess, though... makes it harder for kids to focus during the rest of the day.
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everyone hates indoor recess except the uber wealthy at k-s-u's school
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Indoor recess was never the same after they banned pogs because some dorks lost all of theirs fair and square
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Indoor recess was never the same after they banned pogs because some dorks lost all of theirs fair and square
Sounds like your school was socialist
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Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.
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Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.
Would be interested to hear your comments on that fan.
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YES! A FAN breakdown of school admin is just what this state needs
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Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.
However, sports and activities often become the tail that wag the dog. Kids are passed, protected, and sports are prioritized over academics. Lazy or crappy teachers are retained and their failings ignored or glossed over due to their status as coaching (not say all coaches are bad teachers, the skills of coaching and teaching are the same, but too many coaches tend to over focus on their extra/co-curricular activities and not their courses). Classes interrupted or short changed for "school spirit" rituals that are based around sports.
And one cannot take truly evaluate the costs of sports programs due to they way accounting is handled, in part so it is impossible to track total costs (transportation, substitutes, and other assorted costs, including facilities.
Unfortunately, in public schools, too often schools are evaluated on sports, not academics, and those successful at sports and generally equated in the minds of too many as successful academically.
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Literally no one in the world thinks success in sports = success in academics
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Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.
I don't know that sports are any more beneficial than band, debate, drama etc., all of which generally receive much less funding.
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Is it out of the question that sports should pay for themselves? I would think at least football could sustain itself without drawing funds from the school.
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Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.
I don't know that sports are any more beneficial than band, debate, drama etc., all of which generally receive much less funding.
Because those programs breed socially awkward weirdos, they should be immediately cut and funds reappropriated to sports, science and math.
If you want to do something artistic your choices should be limited to painting, ceramics, shop, home ec, orchestra, and symphony (which is a crap load of choices).
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Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.
I don't know that sports are any more beneficial than band, debate, drama etc., all of which generally receive much less funding.
Yes, I didn't mean to imply that only sports participation helped, those things are just as beneficial to students.
Also, the "coaches are often bad teachers" comment is a meaningless stereotype IMO. My experience has been that there are just as many "bad" teachers that don't participate in any coaching or sponsoring of events.
IMHO participation in athletics is beneficial to students both in academics and behavior in the classroom. I think most coaches are teaching their athletes to be productive students and citizens. There are always going to be programs that are suspect in what they teach their players, but I think for the most part the net benefit of athletic programs far outweighs the negative effects.
My comment on administration is probably painting with a broad brush. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think overall schools are often very inefficient in the way they are ran. I'm not advocating that schools are run completely like a business because I don't believe we need to treat students like products or commodities, but I do think school districts need to often look at how the business of doing school is done and find ways to be more efficient. Administration is a big cost in most districts and I think there are tons of overlap in responsibilities. Plus the number of aging and old buildings most school districts spend lots of money to maintain.
Is it out of the question that sports should pay for themselves? I would think at least football could sustain itself without drawing funds from the school.
In most bigger districts this is already the case. Its not like the money made from football (or other sports) disappears, it is put back into the athletic budget for the entire school. I'm also guessing the budget is built counting on income from those sports as well.
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I think schools would get at least twice as efficient if the state would just adopt a law that says that people with children in the district are ineligible to be school board members. That is a blatant conflict of interest, yet I'm betting the percentage is close to 100%.
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I think schools would get at least twice as efficient if the state would just adopt a law that says that people with children in the district are ineligible to be school board members. That is a blatant conflict of interest, yet I'm betting the percentage is close to 100%.
No one without children in the district would volunteer to be on the school board.
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I think schools would get at least twice as efficient if the state would just adopt a law that says that people with children in the district are ineligible to be school board members. That is a blatant conflict of interest, yet I'm betting the percentage is close to 100%.
School boards are very inefficient but they often don't really exercise much control. School board meetings should not be any reflection on the overall efficiency of a district unless there are really big problems.
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KDOT just announced that they are putting $300M of repair projects back on the shelf due to cuts.
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KDOT just announced that they are putting $300M of repair projects back on the shelf due to cuts.
Our roads will resemble Missouri's soon.
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KDOT just announced that they are putting $300M of repair projects back on the shelf due to cuts.
Weird, the report I read said they were still doing all their scheduled projects.
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980 had the KDOT supervisor speaking in a taped segment as part of their news approx 10 min prior to me typing that.
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980 had the KDOT supervisor speaking in a taped segment as part of their news approx 10 min prior to me typing that.
There's no such thing as the KDOT supervisor.
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KDOT rep that Sam let's speak, then
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https://twitter.com/ksucats96/status/558654841212243968
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Rep dove is quoted in our local paper(he is my rep and lives in my neighborhood) as saying he hasn't even read the bill on common core back then and didn't plan to. He also was quoted as saying that he wasn't sure what common core fully contained.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/ (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/)
This just popped up on my Google news feed.
Gov. Sam Brownback (R) wants to cut classroom funding for Kansas schools by $127 million and push pension fund payments off into the future.
Another big-ticket Brownback cut strips roughly $300 million in transportation department funding over the next couple years
All that short-term thinking in Brownback’s budget doesn’t even produce long-term solvency for the state, according to the Star’s editorial board. The paper criticized Brownback’s promise to “continue our march to zero income taxes,” noting that his cuts have not produced job growth in exchange for starving the state of resources.
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/ (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/)
This just popped up on my Google news feed.
Gov. Sam Brownback (R) wants to cut classroom funding for Kansas schools by $127 million and push pension fund payments off into the future.
Another big-ticket Brownback cut strips roughly $300 million in transportation department funding over the next couple years
All that short-term thinking in Brownback’s budget doesn’t even produce long-term solvency for the state, according to the Star’s editorial board. The paper criticized Brownback’s promise to “continue our march to zero income taxes,” noting that his cuts have not produced job growth in exchange for starving the state of resources.
ThinkProgress is in your Google news feed?
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Nope. "State of Kansas" is though. That grabs articles from any publication dealing with that topic. Google didn't give me the option to exempt liberal only media or conservative only media.
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Rep dove is quoted in our local paper(he is my rep and lives in my neighborhood) as saying he hasn't even read the bill on common core back then and didn't plan to. He also was quoted as saying that he wasn't sure what common core fully contained.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
Every bill is too long to read and too complex for one person to fully understand. There should be a limit.
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Rep dove is quoted in our local paper(he is my rep and lives in my neighborhood) as saying he hasn't even read the bill on common core back then and didn't plan to. He also was quoted as saying that he wasn't sure what common core fully contained.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
Every bill is too long to read and too complex for one person to fully understand. There should be a limit.
Yea but maybe read the one you want to refer to as "slavery of the mind" to double check on the mind slavery bits
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Rep dove is quoted in our local paper(he is my rep and lives in my neighborhood) as saying he hasn't even read the bill on common core back then and didn't plan to. He also was quoted as saying that he wasn't sure what common core fully contained.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
Every bill is too long to read and too complex for one person to fully understand. There should be a limit.
He was the head of the committee on ed and ed budgeting. It was/is his job to do exactly that. Also, he didn't say he didn't read the whole thing. He said he did read it at all, FWIW.
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Sounds like he thinks this common core stuff is just another brick in the wall.
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Rep dove is quoted in our local paper(he is my rep and lives in my neighborhood) as saying he hasn't even read the bill on common core back then and didn't plan to. He also was quoted as saying that he wasn't sure what common core fully contained.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
Every bill is too long to read and too complex for one person to fully understand. There should be a limit.
Bills, how do they work?
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From Willie Dove in the LJWorld last Feb:
Dove said it's not the standards themselves that worry him. In fact, he said, “I haven't seen the actual content of the Common Core.”
“However, I do not believe it is within the scope of our federal government to put something together when it comes to education,” Dove continued.
From Common Core's website:
What is the Common Core?
State education chiefs and governors in 48 states came together to develop the Common Core, a set of clear college and career ready standards for kindergarten through 12th grade in English language arts/literacy and mathematics.
Who led the development of the Common Core State Standards?
The nation’s governors and education commissioners, through their representative organizations, the National Governors Association Center for Best Practices (NGA) and The Council of Chief State School officers (CCSSO), led the development of the Common Core State Standards and continue to lead the initiative. Teachers, parents, school administrators, and experts from across the country, together with state leaders, provided input into the development of the standards.
The ppl that don't like Common Core seem to dislike it because they say it is something the federal govt is shoving down our collective throats. Common core was developed by the rough ridin' states.
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As a reminder, we the dumbass ppl actually pay Dove.
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/ (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/)
This just popped up on my Google news feed.
Gov. Sam Brownback (R) wants to cut classroom funding for Kansas schools by $127 million and push pension fund payments off into the future.
Another big-ticket Brownback cut strips roughly $300 million in transportation department funding over the next couple years
All that short-term thinking in Brownback’s budget doesn’t even produce long-term solvency for the state, according to the Star’s editorial board. The paper criticized Brownback’s promise to “continue our march to zero income taxes,” noting that his cuts have not produced job growth in exchange for starving the state of resources.
ThinkProgress is in your Google news feed?
Posting a link to ThinkProgress is an admission of libtardedness
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I've only seen the anecdotal common core stuff online, and the thought of that crap being taught in schools is truly terrifying.
I also think it was developed long enough ago that current administrations weren't involved and think it's largely been bastardized since. I think quite a few states have dropped it or have at least withdrawn support for it. A us news poll showed teachers dont even support it. So to say the state's created common core as it exists today is quite disingenuous.
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/ (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/01/22/3614508/kansas-short-term-thinking-budget/)
This just popped up on my Google news feed.
Gov. Sam Brownback (R) wants to cut classroom funding for Kansas schools by $127 million and push pension fund payments off into the future.
Another big-ticket Brownback cut strips roughly $300 million in transportation department funding over the next couple years
All that short-term thinking in Brownback’s budget doesn’t even produce long-term solvency for the state, according to the Star’s editorial board. The paper criticized Brownback’s promise to “continue our march to zero income taxes,” noting that his cuts have not produced job growth in exchange for starving the state of resources.
ThinkProgress is in your Google news feed?
Posting a link to ThinkProgress is an admission of libtardedness
Your just mad because you wouldn't accept my post yesterday re: $300M cut to road maint only to see it pop up again today via a separate source.
KDOT just announced that they are putting $300M of repair projects back on the shelf due to cuts.
Weird, the report I read said they were still doing all their scheduled projects.
Maybe you should diversify the leanings of the sources you read. Might get enough points of view to get reliable info :dunno:
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people who get pissed about common core may be the dumbest people in the world
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I've only seen the anecdotal common core stuff online, and the thought of that crap being taught in schools is truly terrifying.
I also think it was developed long enough ago that current administrations weren't involved and think it's largely been bastardized since. I think quite a few states have dropped it or have at least withdrawn support for it. A us news poll showed teachers dont even support it. So to say the state's created common core as it exists today is quite disingenuous.
Is this your argument as to why republicans are trying to shade it to seem like the fed created these standards? If so, that seems a little disingenuous.
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I've only seen the anecdotal common core stuff online, and the thought of that crap being taught in schools is truly terrifying.
I also think it was developed long enough ago that current administrations weren't involved and think it's largely been bastardized since. I think quite a few states have dropped it or have at least withdrawn support for it. A us news poll showed teachers dont even support it. So to say the state's created common core as it exists today is quite disingenuous.
Is this your argument as to why republicans are trying to shade it to seem like the fed created these standards? If so, that seems a little disingenuous.
The point is the people opposing it aren't the ones who came up with it. I think the point they're making is that the state shouldn't cede it's sovereignty in favor of a national curriculum.
This isn't even a left/right thing. New York and Massachusetts aren't implementing it. The press on it sucks. For god sakes, you've admitted to having access to google.
What it's become is something for leftists to blindly support (eg michigancat above) and pubs to blindly oppose (eg Love)
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Anecdotes:
http://m.nationalreview.com/article/373840/ten-dumbest-common-core-problems-alec-torres
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I'd need to see a comparison of standardized test scores to decide whether it's a good thing or not. Some of my coworkers bitch about it a lot and the math homework does look like it would be frustrating if you like to help your kid with his/her homework and don't know how to do the various methods it asks you to use to solve the problems. Then again, it's really the kid's fault for not paying better attention in class.
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I think it's good to teach kids different ways to conceptualize problems. A lot of it is not conceptual, just stupid.
The English and communication stuff is just trash.
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My point is that the main force against Common Core is a band of retards that portray it as if the Fed has developed a curriculum and KS has to eat it, yet the man who you and I pay to review such things, report on such things, then vote on such things isn't even starting the process he is paid for. He is simply advancing the BS talking point that isn't even true.
In the mean time, last year's standardized tests were completely discounted. KS petitioned the fed govt to make sure the scores were not published for public consumption. KS is spending a bunch of time to make sure Common Core doesn't go through, but can't get their standardized test developed in enough time that the practice portions of it could even be used last year. The actual implementation of the test took three times as long for my districts elementary kids to take because KS can't provide an adequate platform/server/whatevs to handle the traffic of thousands of kids signing on at one time and the thing kept crashing mid test. Mid test crashes mean the kids start over at question #1. Three times as long means that the kids lost 2-3 weeks of other non-test instruction last spring semester. This year, testing starts in my district in less than two months and the test still isn't ready, the practice portion isn't ready, and all info I have received from our district says that there has been almost nothing done to stabilize the system so that it doesn't crash this year when everyone signs on again.
To an non-politician, it almost appears that the state wants it's kids to fail given the above and further cuts in funding.
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Why doesn't the state just issue paper tests?
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One other really funny note on this testing:
My kid's school has told teachers to find a way to stop printing homework as much as possible because budget.
In order for a kid to take a KS test, this year, they have to have a randomly generated ticket with a randomly generated number on it, given to them as they walk into the testing room. They open the test, type in their ticket number, and proceed. The ticket helps track to make sure the ppl taking the test are who they are supposed to be. Anyway, in most testing grades, each kid has to take multiple tests and some tests take more than one session, meaning quite a few tickets per kid. Each ticket has to be a hard copy for some reason and so now the district is freaking out because this is going to equate to many thousands of tickets being printed off and they already don't have the budget for paper/toner/etc to finish off the year under their current limited use.
All this before the new cuts.
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Sounds like the administrators should maybe just sack up and buy some damned toner.
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Rep dove is quoted in our local paper(he is my rep and lives in my neighborhood) as saying he hasn't even read the bill on common core back then and didn't plan to. He also was quoted as saying that he wasn't sure what common core fully contained.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
Every bill is too long to read and too complex for one person to fully understand. There should be a limit.
Bills, how do they work?
Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0)
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I'd need to see a comparison of standardized test scores to decide whether it's a good thing or not. Some of my coworkers bitch about it a lot and the math homework does look like it would be frustrating if you like to help your kid with his/her homework and don't know how to do the various methods it asks you to use to solve the problems. Then again, it's really the kid's fault for not paying better attention in class.
ya, it is very aggravating as a BSME and not being able to help your 3rd grader on her homework without using google
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My point is that the main force against Common Core is a band of retards that portray it as if the Fed has developed a curriculum and KS has to eat it, yet the man who you and I pay to review such things, report on such things, then vote on such things isn't even starting the process he is paid for. He is simply advancing the BS talking point that isn't even true.
In the mean time, last year's standardized tests were completely discounted. KS petitioned the fed govt to make sure the scores were not published for public consumption. KS is spending a bunch of time to make sure Common Core doesn't go through, but can't get their standardized test developed in enough time that the practice portions of it could even be used last year. The actual implementation of the test took three times as long for my districts elementary kids to take because KS can't provide an adequate platform/server/whatevs to handle the traffic of thousands of kids signing on at one time and the thing kept crashing mid test. Mid test crashes mean the kids start over at question #1. Three times as long means that the kids lost 2-3 weeks of other non-test instruction last spring semester. This year, testing starts in my district in less than two months and the test still isn't ready, the practice portion isn't ready, and all info I have received from our district says that there has been almost nothing done to stabilize the system so that it doesn't crash this year when everyone signs on again.
To an non-politician, it almost appears that the state wants it's kids to fail given the above and further cuts in funding.
It's interesting that you don't equate tying hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding to standardized testing (with common core being the preferred medium) as federal control.
The federal government takes tens of billions of dollars out of our state in the form of taxes and then offers it back if we do stuff.
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Common Core math is fantastic. it teaches theory and "why" instead of memorization which helps with more complex math being absorbed much easier later in school. It just looks silly to old people because they were taught on memorization and the problems are introductory
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Basically, michigancat is correct
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I'd need to see a comparison of standardized test scores to decide whether it's a good thing or not. Some of my coworkers bitch about it a lot and the math homework does look like it would be frustrating if you like to help your kid with his/her homework and don't know how to do the various methods it asks you to use to solve the problems. Then again, it's really the kid's fault for not paying better attention in class.
ya, it is very aggravating as a BSME and not being able to help your 3rd grader on her homework without using google
Probably should have gotten that masters.
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Basically, michigancat is correct
People with bsmes can't even do it for crying out loud. This has got to stop.
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I've got a rough ridin' JD and if I can't help my child with his math homework I will crap a rough ridin' brick I swear to god almighty.
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I'd need to see a comparison of standardized test scores to decide whether it's a good thing or not. Some of my coworkers bitch about it a lot and the math homework does look like it would be frustrating if you like to help your kid with his/her homework and don't know how to do the various methods it asks you to use to solve the problems. Then again, it's really the kid's fault for not paying better attention in class.
ya, it is very aggravating as a BSME and not being able to help your 3rd grader on her homework without using google
you might need to google the terms but my god it is simple crap. And very, very useful as lib said.
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I mean I am a learned juris doctor and I can't do kid math? wtf
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I'd need to see a comparison of standardized test scores to decide whether it's a good thing or not. Some of my coworkers bitch about it a lot and the math homework does look like it would be frustrating if you like to help your kid with his/her homework and don't know how to do the various methods it asks you to use to solve the problems. Then again, it's really the kid's fault for not paying better attention in class.
ya, it is very aggravating as a BSME and not being able to help your 3rd grader on her homework without using google
you might need to google the terms but my god it is simple crap. And very, very useful as lib said.
No. He can either do it from what he already knows or it's crap.
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My point is that the main force against Common Core is a band of retards that portray it as if the Fed has developed a curriculum and KS has to eat it, yet the man who you and I pay to review such things, report on such things, then vote on such things isn't even starting the process he is paid for. He is simply advancing the BS talking point that isn't even true.
In the mean time, last year's standardized tests were completely discounted. KS petitioned the fed govt to make sure the scores were not published for public consumption. KS is spending a bunch of time to make sure Common Core doesn't go through, but can't get their standardized test developed in enough time that the practice portions of it could even be used last year. The actual implementation of the test took three times as long for my districts elementary kids to take because KS can't provide an adequate platform/server/whatevs to handle the traffic of thousands of kids signing on at one time and the thing kept crashing mid test. Mid test crashes mean the kids start over at question #1. Three times as long means that the kids lost 2-3 weeks of other non-test instruction last spring semester. This year, testing starts in my district in less than two months and the test still isn't ready, the practice portion isn't ready, and all info I have received from our district says that there has been almost nothing done to stabilize the system so that it doesn't crash this year when everyone signs on again.
To an non-politician, it almost appears that the state wants it's kids to fail given the above and further cuts in funding.
It's interesting that you don't equate tying hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding to standardized testing (with common core being the preferred medium) as federal control.
The federal government takes tens of billions of dollars out of our state in the form of taxes and then offers it back if we do stuff.
I'm under the impression that states were given the option to stop using No Child Left Behind if they adopted common core instead. States actually do get to set their own common core curriculum, though, so if they don't like it, they could just change it.
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My point is that the main force against Common Core is a band of retards that portray it as if the Fed has developed a curriculum and KS has to eat it, yet the man who you and I pay to review such things, report on such things, then vote on such things isn't even starting the process he is paid for. He is simply advancing the BS talking point that isn't even true.
In the mean time, last year's standardized tests were completely discounted. KS petitioned the fed govt to make sure the scores were not published for public consumption. KS is spending a bunch of time to make sure Common Core doesn't go through, but can't get their standardized test developed in enough time that the practice portions of it could even be used last year. The actual implementation of the test took three times as long for my districts elementary kids to take because KS can't provide an adequate platform/server/whatevs to handle the traffic of thousands of kids signing on at one time and the thing kept crashing mid test. Mid test crashes mean the kids start over at question #1. Three times as long means that the kids lost 2-3 weeks of other non-test instruction last spring semester. This year, testing starts in my district in less than two months and the test still isn't ready, the practice portion isn't ready, and all info I have received from our district says that there has been almost nothing done to stabilize the system so that it doesn't crash this year when everyone signs on again.
To an non-politician, it almost appears that the state wants it's kids to fail given the above and further cuts in funding.
It's interesting that you don't equate tying hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding to standardized testing (with common core being the preferred medium) as federal control.
The federal government takes tens of billions of dollars out of our state in the form of taxes and then offers it back if we do stuff.
I'm under the impression that states were given the option to stop using No Child Left Behind if they adopted common core instead. States actually do get to set their own common core curriculum, though, so if they don't like it, they could just change it.
Slavery of the mind, tho.
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If you haven't made a math mountain yet, you haven't lived.
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I'd need to see a comparison of standardized test scores to decide whether it's a good thing or not. Some of my coworkers bitch about it a lot and the math homework does look like it would be frustrating if you like to help your kid with his/her homework and don't know how to do the various methods it asks you to use to solve the problems. Then again, it's really the kid's fault for not paying better attention in class.
ya, it is very aggravating as a BSME and not being able to help your 3rd grader on her homework without using google
you might need to google the terms but my god it is simple crap. And very, very useful as lib said.
No. He can either do it from what he already knows or it's crap.
I got an A in differential equations you rough ridin' eff! Of course this new math is crap
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Common Core math is fantastic. it teaches theory and "why" instead of memorization which helps with more complex math being absorbed much easier later in school. It just looks silly to old people because they were taught on memorization and the problems are introductory
I for one am shocked to see lib come down on this side of blind support.
Nothing reinforces math more than "circle the 1's blue".
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Common Core math is fantastic. it teaches theory and "why" instead of memorization which helps with more complex math being absorbed much easier later in school. It just looks silly to old people because they were taught on memorization and the problems are introductory
I for one am shocked to see lib come down on this side of blind support.
Nothing reinforces math more than "circle the 1's blue".
I do think the textbooks/worksheets were rushed and poorly edited. I've found typos or incorrect directions which is what the problem you're mentioning was. Luckily I am able to think critically and recognize the difference between a typo and a curriculum
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Yes, half that complaint link was errors and the rest were rough ridin' simple concepts (because they are taught to grade schoolers)
If you don't want a populace that is more proficient in math, then by all means oppose common core because it's different from what you learned
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Common core is a million times better than what districts were using before
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At least in ks
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If you think the concepts taught in common core are new, you were probably raised by wolves.
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Common core is standards, not curriculum. Districts choose which curriculum they want that will teach the standards.
The math concepts are not new. The curricula that we used in both KCK and Ottawa used the same type of constructivist methods to allow kids to develop a better number sense...so much better than the memorization that we used back in the day.
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Common core is standards, not curriculum. Districts choose which curriculum they want that will teach the standards.
The math concepts are not new. The curricula that we used in both KCK and Ottawa used the same type of constructivist methods to allow kids to develop a better number sense...so much better than the memorization that we used back in the day.
However the Asian nations are teaching math, that's how we should be teaching it. How do they teach it? These "constructivist" methods seem to make math more confusing - not easier.
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You're just an idiot
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You're just an idiot
36 on the math portion of ACT and math scholly at KSU. So I'm pretty good at math. :gocho:
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Common core is standards, not curriculum. Districts choose which curriculum they want that will teach the standards.
The math concepts are not new. The curricula that we used in both KCK and Ottawa used the same type of constructivist methods to allow kids to develop a better number sense...so much better than the memorization that we used back in the day.
However the Asian nations are teaching math, that's how we should be teaching it. How do they teach it? These "constructivist" methods seem to make math more confusing - not easier.
It feels more natural for Chinese speakers than for English speakers to use the "make-a-ten" addition and subtraction strategy taught to first-graders in many East Asian countries. When adding two numbers, students break down the numbers into parts, or addends, and regroup them into tens and ones. For instance, 9 plus 5 becomes 9 plus 1 plus 4. The make-a-ten method is a powerful tool for mastering more advanced multi-digit addition and subtraction problems , Dr. Fuson says.
Many U.S. teachers have increased instruction in the make-a-ten method, and the Common Core standards adopted by many states call for first-graders to use it to add and subtract.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-best-language-for-math-1410304008
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Common Core math is fantastic. it teaches theory and "why" instead of memorization which helps with more complex math being absorbed much easier later in school. It just looks silly to old people because they were taught on memorization and the problems are introductory
I for one am shocked to see lib come down on this side of blind support.
Nothing reinforces math more than "circle the 1's blue".
I do think the textbooks/worksheets were rushed and poorly edited. I've found typos or incorrect directions which is what the problem you're mentioning was. Luckily I am able to think critically and recognize the difference between a typo and a curriculum
Congrats on being able to do your first graders homework. She must be very proud.
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You know, maybe if more parents had a better understanding of math concepts and number sense, they wouldn't freak out when their first graders come home with "common core math". The freak outs kind of prove the point that rote memorization methods from the past don't really teach mathematical reasoning.
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I went to elementary school in the 80's and learned math using all these concepts without having to circle numbers blue, use my crayon as a ruler or complete disjointed and incoherent word problems.
I don't know what they mean by "straight memorization", but that is not something that's been taught in my lifetime.
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We def did memorization.
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Fsd is just too dumb to know it
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Fsd is just too dumb to know it
36 on my ACT! Must have memorized all the answers just like Nintendo b b a b a b b
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lol
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:lol: at your :lol:
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Hopefully the new common core ACT is harder to ace.
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Teacher: How do you intend to solve that math problem?
FSD: Straight Memorization Homie!
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I went to elementary school in the 80's and learned math using all these concepts without having to circle numbers blue, use my crayon as a ruler or complete disjointed and incoherent word problems.
I don't know what they mean by "straight memorization", but that is not something that's been taught in my lifetime.
Unless you are like 12 years old, I am pretty sure you used a lot of memorization in early math classes. Multiplication tables, algorithms, etc. You also obviously have a good number sense and were able to apply it to higher level math concepts. A lot of kids struggle with it. The way that they teach math now helps to develop that number sense at younger ages so that it can be built upon.
Now seriously, what is this "circle numbers blue" nonsense? Grade level?
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I went to elementary school in the 80's and learned math using all these concepts without having to circle numbers blue, use my crayon as a ruler or complete disjointed and incoherent word problems.
I don't know what they mean by "straight memorization", but that is not something that's been taught in my lifetime.
Unless you are like 12 years old, I am pretty sure you used a lot of memorization in early math classes. Multiplication tables, algorithms, etc. You also obviously have a good number sense and were able to apply it to higher level math concepts. A lot of kids struggle with it. The way that they teach math now helps to develop that number sense at younger ages so that it can be built upon.
Now seriously, what is this "circle numbers blue" nonsense? Grade level?
Yeah I think I did memorization back in the day. It worked for me. Again though, as long as we're copying the asian nations in good with it.
Interestingly, it seems like they now do more memorization of words for reading than we did, including speed reading drills with "lightening words." That makes sense.
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I know common core would have made me do better in calc 1 in high school, as well as derivatives and equity classes at ksu. Luckily i used memorization, and aced the later two, but my understanding of why it worked was frustrating. though i was a bad student in jr.high and high school, I'm going to blame the system and not me.
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma - I know none of this makes any sense but it was a dream. And I was freaking out because I had enrolled in 4 classes but I had only been going to two of them all year. The two I was skipping were "Advanced Calculus" (whatever that means) and some sort of foreign language. And so my plan was to cram just enough to pass the classes, but the books were in my locker and I couldn't remember my combination or even where my locker was. So then I went to the principal's office to ask whether I could drop those classes and still graduate. That's when the dream ended but I had a pretty bad feeling about what the principal was going to say.
Most of my nightmares are of the "logistical" variety and they are just the worst.
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma - I know none of this makes any sense but it was a dream. And I was freaking out because I had enrolled in 4 classes but I had only been going to two of them all year. The two I was skipping were "Advanced Calculus" (whatever that means) and some sort of foreign language. And so my plan was to cram just enough to pass the classes, but the books were in my locker and I couldn't remember my combination or even where my locker was. So then I went to the principal's office to ask whether I could drop those classes and still graduate. That's when the dream ended but I had a pretty bad feeling about what the principal was going to say.
Most of my nightmares are of the "logistical" variety and they are just the worst.
I have weird dreams like that all the time. It's always college, though. That principal was going to drop the hammer on you, btw. Nobody gets to drop classes in high school. Hope you had a good time skipping class.
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I know common core would have made me do better in calc 1 in high school, as well as derivatives and equity classes at ksu. Luckily i used memorization, and aced the later two, but my understanding of why it worked was frustrating. though i was a bad student in jr.high and high school, I'm going to blame the system and not me.
Olathe School System :shakesfist:
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma - I know none of this makes any sense but it was a dream. And I was freaking out because I had enrolled in 4 classes but I had only been going to two of them all year. The two I was skipping were "Advanced Calculus" (whatever that means) and some sort of foreign language. And so my plan was to cram just enough to pass the classes, but the books were in my locker and I couldn't remember my combination or even where my locker was. So then I went to the principal's office to ask whether I could drop those classes and still graduate. That's when the dream ended but I had a pretty bad feeling about what the principal was going to say.
Most of my nightmares are of the "logistical" variety and they are just the worst.
I have weird dreams like that all the time. It's always college, though. That principal was going to drop the hammer on you, btw. Nobody gets to drop classes in high school. Hope you had a good time skipping class.
I have had the I did not show up for a class all semester and OMG can I drop it or take an incomplete dream too.
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yeah. it's pretty much always ksu campus and i had a mwf930 or something that i quit going to and i probably missed a test or two and now i can't remember exactly where the class was and who taught it and it's towards the end of the semster and i know i'm going to get an F or something.
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Study related logistical nightmare bros! :cheers:
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Mine is always some pud class that I show up to once and don't give a crap about and then I forget it was even on the schedule come the end of the semester.
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I have the same dream - I blame the weird Statistics req that made me take some dumb Stats 110 class that was only 8 weeks long so I had a "hole " in my T-Th routine when it was over
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yeah. it's pretty much always ksu campus and i had a mwf930 or something that i quit going to and i probably missed a test or two and now i can't remember exactly where the class was and who taught it and it's towards the end of the semster and i know i'm going to get an F or something.
Also same dream about once every few months. Always college, usually at my high school building though
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My last semester was full of two classes I had to have for my major and a couple electives like basketball. I always dreamed about forgetting I even enrolled until the day before finals then panicking about not even knowing where they were holding class at.
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getting applejack-style thread déjà vu, here
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98.1 doing a segment on school budgets this afternoon.
Notes:
- Blue Valley dist has over 70 admins making over $100k a year
- Blue Valley supt makes $307k/yr
- KCK has 20 admin making over $100k.
- KCK has a "custodian" making $92k
- KCK has a "secratary" making $81k
They started this convo because Sumner Academy just bout a $47k piano for their choir program.
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma.
i've had that dream.
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma.
i've had that dream.
Did you realize halfway through the semester that you had a class or classes that you totally forgot about?
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma.
i've had that dream.
Did you realize halfway through the semester that you had a class or classes that you totally forgot about?
it was more like i had to go back and finish a couple of classes in hs before everyone figured out i'd somehow moved along without ever graduating.
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I had a dream last night I was back in high school. I had already graduated college, but I went back to high school to finish some credits to get my diploma.
i've had that dream.
Did you realize halfway through the semester that you had a class or classes that you totally forgot about?
it was more like i had to go back and finish a couple of classes in hs before everyone figured out i'd somehow moved along without ever graduating.
Says something about our public school system that something like that could even happen in a dream...
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98.1 doing a segment on school budgets this afternoon.
Notes:
- Blue Valley dist has over 70 admins making over $100k a year
- Blue Valley supt makes $307k/yr
- KCK has 20 admin making over $100k.
- KCK has a "custodian" making $92k
- KCK has a "secratary" making $81k
They started this convo because Sumner Academy just bout a $47k piano for their choir program.
Heard this segment as well. Always see pupil/teacher ratios and $/pupil. Are there any studies on teacher/admins or admin $/teacher analysis?
Tom
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(Budget - admin sal and facilities)/pupil would be interesting too.
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Apparently some Johnson County school districts get "equalization" payments because they're so poor under the formula.
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
Browny also suggested that school distrticts get money based on performance:
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8639078.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8639078.html)
“Let’s spend that two years writing a finance formula that gets money to the classroom, and I’d like it to have some incentives tied with performance,” Brownback said Friday. “Are the kids reading at the fourth-grade level when they get to fourth grade? When you leave high school, are you either ready to go to college or go to work?
“I’d rather you’d be both, ready to do both, but are you? And we want to pay that you will be, and if you’re not, then you should be penalized for it because that’s what you’re supposed to get done.”
:facepalm:
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
I support this bottom up model. We should pay less taxes to the state and federal government and more taxes to our local units of government. It keep more of your tax money in your own community and it is easier to hold local governments accountable for how the money is spent.
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
I support this bottom up model. We should pay less taxes to the state and federal government and more taxes to our local units of government. It keep more of your tax money in your own community and it is easier to hold local governments accountable for how the money is spent.
If you live in a rural area, you will pray that it is not on the local government to levee, collect, and administer tax/ tax law. It is an awful and inefficient way to go.
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
I support this bottom up model. We should pay less taxes to the state and federal government and more taxes to our local units of government. It keep more of your tax money in your own community and it is easier to hold local governments accountable for how the money is spent.
If you live in a rural area, you will pray that it is not on the local government to levee, collect, and administer tax/ tax law. It is an awful and inefficient way to go.
I don't live in a rural area, and I would prefer that my money not be redistributed to rural areas. Speaking of inefficient... Local taxation is far more efficient than the federal fovernment being the largest taxing unit. There are a more middle men between the feds and my roads.
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
I support this bottom up model. We should pay less taxes to the state and federal government and more taxes to our local units of government. It keep more of your tax money in your own community and it is easier to hold local governments accountable for how the money is spent.
Ok to crash the state by stupid taxes, because eff taxes. OK to raise taxes locally because more local taxes is just what we need?
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Rural schools would be broke
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“Let’s spend that two years writing a finance formula that gets money to the classroom, and I’d like it to have some incentives tied with performance,” Brownback said Friday. “Are the kids reading at the fourth-grade level when they get to fourth grade? When you leave high school, are you either ready to go to college or go to work?
“I’d rather you’d be both, ready to do both, but are you? And we want to pay that you will be, and if you’re not, then you should be penalized for it because that’s what you’re supposed to get done.”
:facepalm:
Ah, yes. Performance based funding ranks right up there with evaluating teachers based on their students' performance. Clearly, Blue Valley deserves more money than KCK, because their students perform better on assessments. How can anyone think this is appropriate by any stretch of the imagination?!?
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“Let’s spend that two years writing a finance formula that gets money to the classroom, and I’d like it to have some incentives tied with performance,” Brownback said Friday. “Are the kids reading at the fourth-grade level when they get to fourth grade? When you leave high school, are you either ready to go to college or go to work?
“I’d rather you’d be both, ready to do both, but are you? And we want to pay that you will be, and if you’re not, then you should be penalized for it because that’s what you’re supposed to get done.”
:facepalm:
Ah, yes. Performance based funding ranks right up there with evaluating teachers based on their students' performance. Clearly, Blue Valley deserves more money than KCK, because their students perform better on assessments. How can anyone think this is appropriate by any stretch of the imagination?!?
Maybe they'll base it on improvement from a baseline, in which case the crap test schools have the most opportunity to get more $$$$.
If any of you think this is anything more than a way to push towards charter schools, you aren't paying attention.
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Everything that Brownback, the Koch bros, and the Kansas Policy Institute try to do involving education is a push toward charter schools.
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Someone smart tell me what charter schools are
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Someone smart tell me what charter schools are
There is no set definition, but generally people mean Publicly funded schools run by corporations that are given wide latitude to make their own policies and usually pay more than public schools while running for longer hours.
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Pros/cons?
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Someone smart tell me what charter schools are
There is no set definition, but generally people mean Publicly funded schools run by corporations that are given wide latitude to make their own policies and usually pay more than public schools while running for longer hours.
I'm not sure as to relevance of the legal entity (although corporations are evil boogie men :ohno:), but you forgot to mention the optional religion part, which the religious right loves.
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I don't know a lot about charter schools, but built a building for one a while back that had a cool thing going. By the time their students grad they have an associates as well as a HS diploma. In MO, though.
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I don't know a lot about charter schools, but built a building for one a while back that had a cool thing going. By the time their students grad they have an associates as well as a HS diploma. In MO, though.
that is cool, alot of kids come out of highschool with at least a year if not more of college credit from regular public schools. I think if you were ambitious and started taking AP classes as soon as available to you in high school you could probably graduate from a four year university like kstate 2 years after high school.
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Someone smart tell me what charter schools are
There is no set definition, but generally people mean Publicly funded schools run by corporations that are given wide latitude to make their own policies and usually pay more than public schools while running for longer hours.
I'm not sure as to relevance of the legal entity (although corporations are evil boogie men :ohno:), but you forgot to mention the optional religion part, which the religious right loves.
Yeah I was being broad. Some are run by non-profits, some are religious private schools (this is pretty rare), the new model is for national organizations like KIPP to run them (not sure if that is for-profit or non-profit and not really sure on their business model). The entire thing is a stalking horse for the privatization of schools with educational companies buying out public schools.
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Pros/cons?
Pros- can absolutely improve upon the worst run schools.
Cons- many don't accept students with special needs or behavior problems so public schools that are competing with the charters become the holding pen for the rejects.
Many educational initiatives are driven by business interests, this is a great example. I would be wrong to question the motives of everyone in the "school reform" movement because there are lots of people with good ideas and lots of people that have dedicated their lives to this cause, but there are also lots of self-interested actors that see enormous profit potential in declaring schools as failures.
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Don't they rely on the "voucher system"
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Don't they rely on the "voucher system"
No. Vouchers are taxpayers money mainly used to send kids to private schools, which is ridiculous in my opinion. Private schools aren't held accountable at all for what they teach. Charter schools are public schools that aren't held to the same standards as the districts are...they have to meet the criteria stated in their charter instead.
If charter schools weren't big cash cows for the for-profit companies (and even for the non-profit companies via tax breaks), I might feel differently about them. As a public school teacher, there are a lot of things that I wish were not part of our education system, the biggest being high stakes testing.
The data on charter schools shows that as a whole, they don't really perform much better than public schools. A clarification of an earlier post: they have to take everybody or do a lottery for acceptance. However, they can weed out the lower performing students in a multitude of ways whereas public schools have to accept and KEEP all students.
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Don't they rely on the "voucher system"
No. Vouchers are taxpayers money mainly used to send kids to private schools, which is ridiculous in my opinion. Private schools aren't held accountable at all for what they teach. Charter schools are public schools that aren't held to the same standards as the districts are...they have to meet the criteria stated in their charter instead.
If charter schools weren't big cash cows for the for-profit companies (and even for the non-profit companies via tax breaks), I might feel differently about them. As a public school teacher, there are a lot of things that I wish were not part of our education system, the biggest being high stakes testing.
The data on charter schools shows that as a whole, they don't really perform much better than public schools. A clarification of an earlier post: they have to take everybody or do a lottery for acceptance. However, they can weed out the lower performing students in a multitude of ways whereas public schools have to accept and KEEP all students.
So if the state wanted this to become the norm, they could legislate against the whole weed out kids thing. Also, making money isn't a bad thing. If my kid was at a charter school, I would want that to be a financially successful school. If you want the ppl who have better ideas to get involved, there needs to be profit.
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Because teachers don't have good ideas?
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I would imagine a lot of them don't.
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I hope that isn't what you got out of that. My wife is a teacher and from that perspective, it doesn't seem to matter if teachers have good ideas or not. It seems like many of those in control(principals and up) are not qualified to manage their way in to anything much different than what they did last year, let alone do anything drastically different. My wife's district may be an outlier, but when looking into decisions made at the highest level, you have to leave reason at the door.
I am not for charters, nor against them. Don't know enough about them. What I do know is that often really good ideas come from ppl that have fresh perspective.
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Scenario A: Mrs. CNS gets fed up with the public school system and decides to start a charter school. Because she is a teacher and knows a lot about child development, she structures her school appropriately and frees the kids from the pressures of testing, etc. She makes a good profit and the kids benefit from her passion for teaching. She pays her teachers appropriately and supports them by making sure that they have the materials that they need.
Scenario B: Large for-profit charter school company rakes in big bucks. The teacher turnover rate is really high because the pay isn't great and they are expected to be available to students and parents almost constantly. Therefore, the teachers are pretty inexperienced because they either burnout or move on.
I'm totally fine with scenario A. Unfortunately, I think that those types of charters are the exception, not the norm.
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I would imagine a lot of them don't.
Seriously?
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Scenario A: Mrs. CNS gets fed up with the public school system and decides to start a charter school. Because she is a teacher and knows a lot about child development, she structures her school appropriately and frees the kids from the pressures of testing, etc. She makes a good profit and the kids benefit from her passion for teaching. She pays her teachers appropriately and supports them by making sure that they have the materials that they need.
Scenario B: Large for-profit charter school company rakes in big bucks. The teacher turnover rate is really high because the pay isn't great and they are expected to be available to students and parents almost constantly. Therefore, the teachers are pretty inexperienced because they either burnout or move on.
I'm totally fine with scenario A. Unfortunately, I think that those types of charters are the exception, not the norm.
Scenario B is close to what is happening now in the lack of support for teachers and expectation of availability. The teachers aren't run off, but they are worn down into not caring and being mediocre. The ones that are passionate run themselves off because of the bullshit they have to deal with in the current system.
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
in general or just in education?
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
in general or just in education?
specifically education.
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
in general or just in education?
specifically education.
What incentive is there to change then?
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
in general or just in education?
specifically education.
This is what I like to call altruistic delusion.
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
in general or just in education?
specifically education.
What incentive is there to change then?
Are you serious? Your wife is a teacher and you can't understand how or why someone could have good ideas and work their hardest without profit as a motivator?
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It's ridiculous to assume that good ideas only come when profit is a motivator.
No one is saying that.
Yeah, I read your post incorrectly. However, I wouldn't expect many good new ideas to come from those whose motive is profit.
in general or just in education?
specifically education.
What incentive is there to change then?
Are you serious? Your wife is a teacher and you can't understand how or why someone could have good ideas and work their hardest without profit as a motivator?
We are discussing more than an individual teacher here. That should be plain.
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What incentive is there to change then?
Actually, the incentive to change (because of teacher evals linked to testing, NCLB, etc.) has sucked the creativity right out of teaching. It is more difficult to implement new ideas, because the kids are constantly either testing or preparing for testing.
The best time of the year is after assessments are over. For that month or so, even though summer was approaching and the kids were ready to be out of school, my students would always learn a lot. Hands on history and science projects, career fairs (complete with resume writing, interviewing, skills application), math projects that applied to the real world....we all loved it.
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Speaking of teacher evaluations linked to test scores...
I am a part time school counselor. My evaluation is partially based on the assessment scores of our 3rd and 4th graders. I don't even get to work with those grade levels b/c of my part time status (my job description is ridiculous, but that is a different story).
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I think we should end standardized tests. 100% serious.
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Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.
Bam. I just fixed schools.
CaseClosed.WC08.gif
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Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.
Bam. I just fixed schools.
CaseClosed.WC08.gif
I suggest you check out who is actually on your local school board, and how together their own crap is, before you declare success.
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Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.
Bam. I just fixed schools.
CaseClosed.WC08.gif
So how exactly would the PTA determine if the school was not doing a good enough job? Would they all agree on what their children should be learning at a given grade level?
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What incentive is there to change then?
Actually, the incentive to change (because of teacher evals linked to testing, NCLB, etc.) has sucked the creativity right out of teaching. It is more difficult to implement new ideas, because the kids are constantly either testing or preparing for testing.
The best time of the year is after assessments are over. For that month or so, even though summer was approaching and the kids were ready to be out of school, my students would always learn a lot. Hands on history and science projects, career fairs (complete with resume writing, interviewing, skills application), math projects that applied to the real world....we all loved it.
I am all for allowing more teachers to do their own thing but if there are still unmotivated administrators and budget issues, that won't change much other than one individual classroom here and there.
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We need to identify the under-performing students, and then give their parents a boatload of cash. Studies show that children of wealthier parents perform markedly better in school.
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Also, just set a base level of funding for each school, and let the schools and teachers decide how best to use them. If the schools suck, the PTAs or whatever can pressure the school to do better. No more statewide or nation wide standards, because those suck. No more politicians forcing agendas to students.
Bam. I just fixed schools.
CaseClosed.WC08.gif
So how exactly would the PTA determine if the school was not doing a good enough job? Would they all agree on what their children should be learning at a given grade level?
I said PTA or WHATEVER.
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I think you need standardized tests of some sort, or it'll be next to impossible to know what's working and what isn't. But I don't think it's a very good/fair way to evaluate teachers.
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Teacher eval is a tough subject. It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress.
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I think you need standardized tests of some sort, or it'll be next to impossible to know what's working and what isn't. But I don't think it's a very good/fair way to evaluate teachers.
1 per year per student.
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Teacher eval is a tough subject. It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress.
yes. Was it you that shared that podcast from Sweden? IMO the best way to ensure teachers will perform is to weed out people early - make it difficult to get into a teaching education program.
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Teacher eval is a tough subject. It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress.
yes. Was it you that shared that podcast from Sweden? IMO the best way to ensure teachers will perform is to weed out people early - make it difficult to get into a teaching education program.
Yeah, that was my share. I did like the idea on making it difficult to get into. However, they also made it high paying. So, good luck with that around here.
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Teacher eval is a tough subject. It is definitely needed, however, teachers don't have control of a bunch of important variables that would be needed to provide fair evals based on student progress.
yes. Was it you that shared that podcast from Sweden? IMO the best way to ensure teachers will perform is to weed out people early - make it difficult to get into a teaching education program.
Yeah, that was my share. I did like the idea on making it difficult to get into. However, they also made it high paying. So, good luck with that around here.
raise the requirements and let the market take care of itself
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I would imagine a lot of them don't.
Seriously?
Anecdotally, yes. I've encountered far more unimpressive educators in my life (below the college level) than I have those that were legitimately bright. Many if not most were run of the mill dumbasses.
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Sam just recommended last week that districts push the locals to do something with sales and propt taxes to fill their budget holes as he cuts again. Hard core con doing what he can to raise your propt and local sales taxes.
Browny also suggested that school distrticts get money based on performance:
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8639078.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8639078.html)
“Let’s spend that two years writing a finance formula that gets money to the classroom, and I’d like it to have some incentives tied with performance,” Brownback said Friday. “Are the kids reading at the fourth-grade level when they get to fourth grade? When you leave high school, are you either ready to go to college or go to work?
“I’d rather you’d be both, ready to do both, but are you? And we want to pay that you will be, and if you’re not, then you should be penalized for it because that’s what you’re supposed to get done.”
:facepalm:
I think Sam structured those last 2 sentences at a 5th grade level.
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Cuts
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Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.
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Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.
Dear God, do people have any idea what even goes on in schools before spouting the "failing" comments? Please give me specific examples of how exactly our Kansas schools are failing. The expectations on these kids are sky high...MUCH HIGHER than when I was in school. The stakes are sky high as well. I just get so sick of people who have no education or child development background proclaiming the schools, teachers, and students to be failures.
Have you read studies about how skewed the data is when comparing our ed data to that of other countries? Poverty is the number one factor in determining at-risk students. For a little light reading on the subject, check this out.
http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/
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Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.
if we are talking drastic, we need to talk parents.
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Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.
Dear God, do people have any idea what even goes on in schools before spouting the "failing" comments? Please give me specific examples of how exactly our Kansas schools are failing. The expectations on these kids are sky high...MUCH HIGHER than when I was in school. The stakes are sky high as well. I just get so sick of people who have no education or child development background proclaiming the schools, teachers, and students to be failures.
Have you read studies about how skewed the data is when comparing our ed data to that of other countries? Poverty is the number one factor in determining at-risk students. For a little light reading on the subject, check this out.
http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/
I'm far from an expert on education, but common sense would indicate that you are correct in that poverty (or more likely terrible parenting, but they go hand in hand) is the most significant factor in a child's education. However, the same common sense also dictates that simply shoveling more money into schools won't fix that problem.
I think our schools could probably get by with a quite a bit less money - they should focus more on the fundamentals, consolidate, and shed a lot of redundant administrative positions. Schools are susceptible to the same bloat as any other government-funded bureaucracy.
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If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?
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If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?
They don't have to go home to shitty parents.
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If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?
They have likely had a lot of enrichment opportunities, preschool, parents who read to them when they are young, etc.
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Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.
Dear God, do people have any idea what even goes on in schools before spouting the "failing" comments? Please give me specific examples of how exactly our Kansas schools are failing. The expectations on these kids are sky high...MUCH HIGHER than when I was in school. The stakes are sky high as well. I just get so sick of people who have no education or child development background proclaiming the schools, teachers, and students to be failures.
Have you read studies about how skewed the data is when comparing our ed data to that of other countries? Poverty is the number one factor in determining at-risk students. For a little light reading on the subject, check this out.
http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/
I'm far from an expert on education, but common sense would indicate that you are correct in that poverty (or more likely terrible parenting, but they go hand in hand) is the most significant factor in a child's education. However, the same common sense also dictates that simply shoveling more money into schools won't fix that problem.
I think our schools could probably get by with a quite a bit less money - they should focus more on the fundamentals, consolidate, and shed a lot of redundant administrative positions. Schools are susceptible to the same bloat as any other government-funded bureaucracy.
Aren't the administrators whose positions you advocate cutting the same people who will be tasked with setting new budgets with less money? I wouldn't expect them to cut themselves.
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I think our schools could probably get by with a quite a bit less money - they should focus more on the fundamentals, consolidate, and shed a lot of redundant administrative positions. Schools are susceptible to the same bloat as any other government-funded bureaucracy.
Focus MORE on fundamentals?! Nearly the entire school day is spent on reading, writing, and math instruction.
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If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?
They don't have to go home to shitty parents.
They also don't get to go home to good ones.
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If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?
They don't have to go home to shitty parents.
They also don't get to go home to good ones.
Expectations.
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If parenting is the most important factor, how do rich kids at elite boarding schools always do so well away from their parents?
They don't have to go home to shitty parents.
They also don't get to go home to good ones.
Expectations.
oh, that's it?
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Yeah. That and the enrichment, time spent reading, etc Stellar mentioned, when the kids are younger. You know, parents parenting and stuff.
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Is a parent who can't afford pre school a "shitty parent"?
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Not necessarily. They are if they smoke two packs a day, have a crap load of cable channels and hit the casino a couple times a month, though.
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Is a parent who can't afford pre school a "shitty parent"?
In most cases, probably so. If you don't earn enough money to send a kid to preschool, you could just work a little bit harder to either get a better job or a second job.
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Is a parent who can't afford pre school a "shitty parent"?
In most cases, probably so. If you don't earn enough money to send a kid to preschool, you could just work a little bit harder to either get a better job or a second job.
How will you have time to read to your kids if you're working two jobs?
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Is a parent who can't afford pre school a "shitty parent"?
In most cases, probably so. If you don't earn enough money to send a kid to preschool, you could just work a little bit harder to either get a better job or a second job.
Ah, so spend even less time with your child? Preschool is expensive.
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Preschool is one area the state should spend more money. All kids should get it. Significant difference in those who get it and those who dont.
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I think our schools could probably get by with a quite a bit less money - they should focus more on the fundamentals, consolidate, and shed a lot of redundant administrative positions. Schools are susceptible to the same bloat as any other government-funded bureaucracy.
Focus MORE on fundamentals?! Nearly the entire school day is spent on reading, writing, and math instruction.
I can't speak for higher grades, but I've got a child in 1st grade public school and they seem to spend a disappointingly small amount of time on fundamentals. They did waste a good 20 or so hours over the past few weeks rehearsing for a really awful music performance that most of the kids appeared to have cared less about.
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Well holy crap, those rough ridin' Asians just zoomed past your kids during that 20 hours. Good luck competing in the global economy now.
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So they spent an hour rehearsing per day over a 4 week period? That would still leave about 5 hours per day for reading, writing, and math. Maybe these kids need to start going to school from 8-5 to get everything in.
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If those 7 year olds aren't putting their hearts in the play, we should cut the arts
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If my kid doesn't want to act at seven I'll be damned if her dumbass teachers are going to make her act
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If my kid doesn't want to act at seven I'll be damned if her dumbass teachers are going to make her act
I'd rather they just learn reading, writing, math, dodgeball, and lunchroom etiquette - the tools they'll need to be successful in life. Maybe an hour each week for art or music.
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If my kid doesn't want to act at seven I'll be damned if her dumbass teachers are going to make her act
I'd rather they just learn reading, writing, math, dodgeball, and lunchroom etiquette - the tools they'll need to be successful in life. Maybe an hour each week for art or music.
Art and music actually help some people be successful and learn things in life, maybe not you though.
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Something drastic needs to be done with public schools, because they are failing and more and more money has done nothing to help. Sam has his approach. The establishment will obviously fight to the death to protect their entitlement (status quo). How anyone is surprised by this, I don't know.
Dear God, do people have any idea what even goes on in schools before spouting the "failing" comments? Please give me specific examples of how exactly our Kansas schools are failing. The expectations on these kids are sky high...MUCH HIGHER than when I was in school. The stakes are sky high as well. I just get so sick of people who have no education or child development background proclaiming the schools, teachers, and students to be failures.
Have you read studies about how skewed the data is when comparing our ed data to that of other countries? Poverty is the number one factor in determining at-risk students. For a little light reading on the subject, check this out.
http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/
I'm far from an expert on education, but common sense would indicate that you are correct in that poverty (or more likely terrible parenting, but they go hand in hand) is the most significant factor in a child's education. However, the same common sense also dictates that simply shoveling more money into schools won't fix that problem.
I think our schools could probably get by with a quite a bit less money - they should focus more on the fundamentals, consolidate, and shed a lot of redundant administrative positions. Schools are susceptible to the same bloat as any other government-funded bureaucracy.
From my wife's super today:
As you may have already heard, on Thursday Kansas Governor Sam Brownback announced that he will be moving ahead with funding reductions for public schools and higher education. The automatic cuts do not require legislative approval and are scheduled to go into effect on March 7th.
By instituting this reduction measure, this partially helps to plug a hole in the state's looming budget deficit. Specifically, it will save the State of Kansas $44.5 million in the current fiscal year. The cuts were announced after the state missed its January revenue expectations by $47 million.
What is super great about Sam is that not only does he agree with K_S_U W, but he also thinks it prudent to make such cuts smack int he middle of the school year rather than implementing the necessary planning and policy to plan ahead accordingly.
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Is a parent who can't afford pre school a "shitty parent"?
Well it's free for poors, and people that aren't poor can obviously afford it, so I don't think cost is at issue.
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Well it's free for poors, and people that aren't poor can obviously afford it, so I don't think cost is at issue.
A family of 4 can't make more than $24,000 to qualify for Head Start.
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I can't speak for higher grades, but I've got a child in 1st grade public school and they seem to spend a disappointingly small amount of time on fundamentals. They did waste a good 20 or so hours over the past few weeks rehearsing for a really awful music performance that most of the kids appeared to have cared less about.
Besides the evidence that math skills are improved by music exposure, I'm going to assume that your kid doesn't spend this much time on music practice during the entire school year. Special circumstances do come up in life.
My son is in 1st grade as well. His day:
8:30-9:10 Phonics and Calendar (math based)
9:10-9:30 Recess
9:30-10:30 Reading groups
10:30-11:00 Whole group reading
11:00-11:25 Lunch
11:25-12:00 Writing
12:00-12:20 Recess
12:20-1:30 Math
1:30-2:30 Specials (PE, Music, Library, Computer/Guidance)
2:30-3:20 Social Studies/Science
tl;dr A ton of fundamentals
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Pretty mad about this anti-Johnson county movement that is afoot...
http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article9752516.html
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http://cjonline.com/news/2015-02-13/usd-501-announces-cuts-summer-school-field-trips-response-funding-loss
USD 501 announces cuts to summer school, field trips in response to funding loss
More cuts. Are they from the right places? Interesting after reading Dickstone's JoCo article.
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How much is being cut per student? Like $100 or something? Just crowd fund it sheesh
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Sick of being beat on here in Joco.
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http://cjonline.com/news/2015-02-13/usd-501-announces-cuts-summer-school-field-trips-response-funding-loss
USD 501 announces cuts to summer school, field trips in response to funding loss
More cuts. Are they from the right places? Interesting after reading Dickstone's JoCo article.
If you have to make cuts in the middle of a school year, that's probably the best way to do it. They probably should try to cut a few administrative positions for the next year. Probably won't happen, though.
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Not sure what thread this goes in, but figured this might be a good spot:
(A+++++ source)
From someone that works for the State. She basically travels around the world with Brownback to convince companies to move to Kansas so they can get all these PEAK benefits. She said that every time Brownback has to lie during a meeting (probably pretty often), he sits in the back of the plane on the way home and reads the Bible the entire time.
That's right, when he knowingly lies to someone's face he binge-reads the Bible to clear his conscience.
The ironic thing is that nearly everyone that works in this department was laid off in the past year. The Job creating department is hemorrhaging jobs.
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He probably has it on audio book and Audibles that B in one ear near constantly.
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Not sure what thread this goes in, but figured this might be a good spot:
(A+++++ source)
From someone that works for the State. She basically travels around the world with Brownback to convince companies to move to Kansas so they can get all these PEAK benefits. She said that every time Brownback has to lie during a meeting (probably pretty often), he sits in the back of the plane on the way home and reads the Bible the entire time.
That's right, when he knowingly lies to someone's face he binge-reads the Bible to clear his conscience.
The ironic thing is that nearly everyone that works in this department was laid off in the past year. The Job creating department is hemorrhaging jobs.
I've never understood this. If you've already read the book once, why keep reading it over and over again? Do people expect the words to change or something?
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I've got several family members that teach in Olathe. They looked at district salaries and went through 10 million dollars before they started seeing classroom teachers. That seems crazy
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Not sure what thread this goes in, but figured this might be a good spot:
(A+++++ source)
From someone that works for the State. She basically travels around the world with Brownback to convince companies to move to Kansas so they can get all these PEAK benefits. She said that every time Brownback has to lie during a meeting (probably pretty often), he sits in the back of the plane on the way home and reads the Bible the entire time.
That's right, when he knowingly lies to someone's face he binge-reads the Bible to clear his conscience.
The ironic thing is that nearly everyone that works in this department was laid off in the past year. The Job creating department is hemorrhaging jobs.
I've never understood this. If you've already read the book once, why keep reading it over and over again? Do people expect the words to change or something?
I have never understood the act of reading the bible or saying a prayer as some form of punishment. Shouldn't that be some sort of celebration in religion? Religion is weird.
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I've got several family members that teach in Olathe. They looked at district salaries and went through 10 million dollars before they started seeing classroom teachers. That seems crazy
It is crazy.
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there are 52 schools in that district and more students than k-state. i can see 10 million in administration pretty easily
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It's much more than that. You just had to go that far before the teachers that have 30 years start showing up
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nice work idiots http://www.k-state.edu/today/announcement.php?id=18498&category=from_the_president&referredBy=email#.VPcNhRDvp-A.twitter
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nice work idiots http://www.k-state.edu/today/announcement.php?id=18498&category=from_the_president&referredBy=email#.VPcNhRDvp-A.twitter
I've said like a million times just launch a kickstarter and the money will roll in
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Pretty crazy to think that the most money the state has ever spent on education is considered the least money ever spent on education. #science
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Pretty crazy to think that the most money the state has ever spent on education is considered the least money ever spent on education. #science
When we re-define our terms, magic can happen!
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Pretty crazy to think that the most money the state has ever spent on education is considered the least money ever spent on education. #science
When we re-define our terms, magic can happen!
Money is money.
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Pretty crazy to think that the most money the state has ever spent on education is considered the least money ever spent on education. #science
When we re-define our terms, magic can happen!
Money is money.
:lol:
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I went on a diet today. Was pretty easy.
Instead of measuring myself in lbs, I measured in kg today.
BOOM!
I actually need to put some kgs back on to hit my goal weight.
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1. This orange is all crunchy and red and shitty.
2. That is an apple.
1. Shittiest orange ever.
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Look at the indoctrinated
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http://www.kshb.com/news/tip-the-schools-receipt-to-brownback-from-waitress-goes-viral
very ethical @trim
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I'd have just taken a tip, but that's just me I guess
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Yes that's very cute. Meanwhile, we're spending more on public education than ever. But I guess they still need "more."
My tip to the waitress would be "serve my food and don't be a dumbass."
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Zing!
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I mean, even if you want to make this statement, take the tip and then say "hey this would be better if you gave it to the schools" or whatever
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Maybe the waitress could give the tip to her favorite school. They could buy a small box of crayons.
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Oh man, she got him real good.
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Chances she gets harassed by a brownback staffer?
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Surely she would post that for media too
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Not that I'm a big fan of the local 'pubs, but they did have one largest increase in teach salaries recently and the usual suspects still went ballistic. Many of the quasi-state agencies which thrived like ticks on a buffalo under previous administrations saw their funding cut and they of course lost their minds . . . their $1500 suits and S-Class's got to be a bigger burden to carry.
shame i missed out on this gem.
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Yes that's very cute. Meanwhile, we're spending more on public education than ever.
I keep seeing this statement, and I'm pretty sure it isn't true.
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Yes that's very cute. Meanwhile, we're spending more on public education than ever.
I keep seeing this statement, and I'm pretty sure it isn't true.
Pretty sure it is, whether in total dollars or in spending per pupil.
Total Spending Per Pupil through 2014: http://www.kansasopengov.org/StateAverageSpendMajorCategory/tabid/1563/Default.aspx (http://www.kansasopengov.org/StateAverageSpendMajorCategory/tabid/1563/Default.aspx)
Total Local, State, and Federal Funding through 2013: http://www.kansaspolicy.org/KPIBlog/112858.aspx?plain=true (http://www.kansaspolicy.org/KPIBlog/112858.aspx?plain=true)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kansaspolicy.org%2FTotalfunding.png&hash=2e16d79d91eac959a48e5eb94bd792544aa3c812)
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The real reason this is so annoying is not because she behaved like a jerk - people do that all the time - but that she actually thought she was making a valid point because she "watches the news." It's an indictment of the media's failure to report simple, basic facts in an effort to support their liberal agenda. As an example, look no further than this very article about the dumbass waitress, which at no point even mentions the basic facts regarding school funding.
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Looks like Obama is the real culprit here.
I can't believe how politicized Kansas has allowed education to become. At the drop of a hat leftists can file suit in Shawnee county district court to have a three judge panel of leftists decide how much money is supposed to be spent on schools. That's rough ridin' crazy from a governance pov. The tiniest minority of whackos can completely obfuscate the legislative process.
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http://www.cbpp.org/research/most-states-still-funding-schools-less-than-before-the-recession?fa=view&id=4213
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http://www.kshb.com/news/tip-the-schools-receipt-to-brownback-from-waitress-goes-viral
very ethical @trim
"Tip The Grid Iron Club"
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http://www.cbpp.org/research/most-states-still-funding-schools-less-than-before-the-recession?fa=view&id=4213
I just gave you that actual dollar figures. You're just citing a liberal think tank. The source for their numbers is "CBPP [their own] budget analysis." So believe what you want, I guess.
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When you say "actual" dollar figures, does that include a consistent definition of "per pupil spending" for each year? That would seem to be kind of important.
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When you say "actual" dollar figures, does that include a consistent definition of "per pupil spending" for each year? That would seem to be kind of important.
I don't know. But that's why I linked both "per pupil" and "total funding" numbers.
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I think if you are going to claim "more funding than ever before" you should at least account for inflation.
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When you say "actual" dollar figures, does that include a consistent definition of "per pupil spending" for each year? That would seem to be kind of important.
I don't know. But that's why I linked both "per pupil" and "total funding" numbers.
Right, but KPI is using weasel words and their own definitions to get around the change in definition of "per pupil spending" done under Brownback. The state had been putting IOUs in to KPERS and not fully funding their obligations. Brownback and the legislature shored up the shortfall by increasing teacher rate of contribution, increasing the district rate and by counting the increased state and district obligations as part of "per pupil" or "total per pupil" spending. They re-defined what "per-pupil spending" meant to include this additional spending. In addition, that chart is not inflation adjusted.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/VhjJFEhGzC7PW6chYHcPuoAVisFFVohjXNnXUqtLLuFzTUciaiMgUxRVx6W56uRis23ehpaSNYIyC5STaLdfWLHvxOmWXl2CKMF_YweYY3zShaq5eTXdcZmUH5O8itCVHQ)
This is not new information, this was a campaign issue that was widely discussed in the governor's race (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/election/article1295921.html).
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kansasopengov.org%2FChartImg.axd%3Fi%3Dcharts_0%2Fchart_0_1.png%26amp%3Bg%3D3821f6a79bc74fb68b1b38dfde0617c0&hash=3dd64e0a0fe0a1c353af118b71a702d888f7f78a)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/fFZX_2olXzX4zyi8S12pD_oBXIvfN-DMKTVeXpBONz-G4keErGtbFOC25u9NBmX_vldMFM05vlXGSleDkuBwToejdV04czxcTIOGFJWEiam4M7l2HW7BMxudIDgjm-8Pug)
Monday, August 11, 2014
Facts about Kansas school funding: up, down or flat?
New facts about changes in Kansas school funding: up, down or flat?
As the 2014 election campaign heats up and school boards adopt budgets for the current year, KASB has been receiving more and more questions about what has really happened to Kansas school funding in recent years.
Questions about school funding will continue to grow because the Kansas Supreme Court has held the test of constitutionally adequate funding is the so-called “Rose” standards for preparing students to be successful in their lives beyond high school. Before the state can decide how much money is needed to reach those standards, there must be an agreement on what we are already spending.
To help answer this question, we started with two documents the Kansas Budget Division - which is headed by Governor Brownback’s budget director - recently posted on its website. First is the budget Comparison Report. This document reflects final Legislative action on the state budget for the the fiscal year that ended June 30 and the current fiscal year that began July 1. Page 60 contains a chart showing state aid programs for K-12 education, including federal stimulus funding during the recession years, from Fiscal Year 2010 to the current year FY 2015 (2014-15 school year). Page 62 contains a chart showing state and federal funding for FY 2013 through FY 2015. The second document is a spreadsheet entitled State and Federal Support of Elementary and Secondary Education in Kansas, which covers the years from 2009 to 2015.
There are two major differences between these reports. The Comparison Report shows the shift of the 20 mill statewide levy from local revenue to state aid, which indicates that state aid increased 23 percent from last year to this year. The second document does not (as of August 3) show that change, which indicates total state and federal support increased just 4.6 percent this year. The second document also includes funding for Governor Brownback’s initiatives that impact K-12 students and districts but are not under the Kansas State Department of Education or included in district budgets: secondary technical education tuition funding through the Board of Regents and funding for the Read to Succeed program, Reading Roadmap and Jobs for America’s Graduates under the Department of Children and Families.
Missing from both of the documents is local school district funding. To show total changes in total school funding, KASB used total school district expenditure levels as provided by KSDE for 2009 through 2013, and KASB estimates for 2014 (final actual spending is not yet reported) and 2015 (budgets are not yet adopted) to develop the following data. (NOTE: All numbers in these tables and charts are in thousands of dollars.)
Several items stand out. First, total school district support declined from 2009 to 2011 during the Great Recession. Second, total funding has risen each year from 2011 to 2015. Third, funding from the state general fund - the state’s general purpose “checkbook” of revenue from income and sales taxes - has remained essentially unchanged for five years even though the state economy has recovered, largely because state income tax cuts have reduced available revenue. Fourth, other state funding and federal funding increased from less than $500 million in 2009 to $850 million in 2014, largely because of federal stimulus funding in 2010 and 2011, and the use of state highway funding and expanded lottery revenues for education programs in 2014.
Because the statewide 20 mill levy will be collected by the state, rather than local districts, beginning in 2015, it produces a major increase in “other state and federal funding.” However, this change does not provide an increase in total school funding, because the 20 mill revenue disappears as a local revenue source. Finally, other local revenues are expected to decrease by about $20 million in 2015 because fully funding local option budget state aid will reduce LOB property tax requirements in many districts. These changes are displayed graphically below.
This data shows that school funding has increased every year during Governor Brownback’s administration. However, when adjusted for inflation, the picture looks somewhat different. KASB used the state’s April Consensus Revenue Estimate predictions for changes in the consumer price index in 2014 and 2015, and then adjusted previous years’ funding to projected 2015 dollars.
As the following chart shows, when adjusted for inflation, total K-12 revenue has been essentially flat for the past five years, and is still below 2009 and 2010 levels.
Total revenues by source, however, does not explain how funding has changed for different programs within district budgets. In fact, most of the increase in school funding has not been available for “this year” expenditures for teachers, administrators, and support staff positions or salaries, or other annual operating costs. Instead, most of the increase has gone to pension and building costs.
Most funding for operating costs is in four areas that make up about 75 percent of total school budgets. First is the school district general fund, determined by the base state aid per pupil multiplied by student enrollment as adjusted with pupil weightings, plus special education state aid. Except for a few minor local revenues, this is funded entirely by state aid and the 20 mill statewide levy.
Second is the local option budget, funded by local property taxes, and in about 80 percent of districts, by state LOB aid based on the district’s per pupil property wealth. Third is funding for federal educational programs like special education and Title I (No Child Left Behind), but excluding student meal support and federal stimulus funding that was included in the general fund and LOB funding. Fourth, we included funding for Governor Brownback’s technical education and reading initiatives.
In actual dollars, school district general funds and special education aid have been reduced by about $160 million, but local option budgets have increased by about the same amount. Federal education programs increased about $15 million, and funding for the Governor’s targeted programs increased by about $40 million. As a result, net funding for these programs, after dropping over $200 million in 2010, in 2014 recovered to about the same level as it was six years ago.
When adjusted for inflation, however, as the following table and graph show, the state’s base support for K-12 education through school district general fund budgets has declined almost $500 million, and Local Option Budgets did no more than keep up with inflation until 2015, when the Legislature increased the maximum LOB districts can adopt. Federal education program funding declined $15 million during this timeframe.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f0SGPeAqSHuh6CLIGnEwIQWSX1gJBsCVjGjJVxEgssZ14cTFyU3CQUwoUsmddKYkXy5USSQLVsEDN7kuI-O3FsvBVtFXC6-s_s0JfI4uRSl8Zmd91Xw7mIlUniNKjkO4Og)
These figures illustrate why school leaders continue to express deep concerns about the adequacy of school funding, despite increases that have been provided in certain areas. When measured against changes in the cost of living, funding for educational programs that can actually be spent on teachers, administrators and student support programs has declined by $500 million since 2009, and even the increases in these areas provided by the 2014 Legislature for 2015 will be less than the projected rate of inflation.
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I think if you are going to claim "more funding than ever before" you should at least account for inflation.
Yeah - inflation has just been off the charts recently.
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I think if you are going to claim "more funding than ever before" you should at least account for inflation.
Yeah - inflation has just been off the charts recently.
It is intellectually dishonest to not use inflation adjustments when comparing funding year-to-year. No one is claiming it will make much difference, but it is a good starting point. It makes no sense to do it unless there is an ulterior motive. I explained that there was a purposeful attempt to re-define "per-pupil" spending to game the statistics. The lack of inflation adjusted numbers is in keeping with the "apples to oranges" nature of the comparison being put forth.
It is fine to be uninformed about the basic vocabulary and numbers of the debate, as you admitted earlier, but to then get pissy when others point out basic problems with the statistics you posted is further evidence that you aren't interested in actually knowing what is happening here.
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Looking only at the leftists graphs and information you still can't find a "draconian" "gutting" of the education system, or anything that even resembles anything more than a slight reduction in funding. That's the point in all of this - that the left and the media is misrepresenting (lying) the facts of the matter.
There have been claims that schools are going to have to shudder their doors over funding, that copy paper and pens are running out, etc. It's all bullshit. And if the people in those districts actually cared, they'd raise the mill levy a mill or two.
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There's funding in the schools, just not where they need it. My high school recently got a grant to install cameras around the entire school (because a small rural school needs cameras) but it still is using 15 year old books and they don't have an A/C. :shakesfist:
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Its not all bullshit, but there is definitely waste. Our local HS is doing a $130k reno of their cafeteria to make the whole eating area look like some kind of cafe, complete with charging stations at every table for the phones they aren't even supposed to have on in school. They are doing this because their lunch revenue is severely down over the last two years(since switching to a new vendor). Evidently their food is similar in quality to the recent bucknight hotdogs of twitter fame. So, rather than spending some money on higher quaility meals, they are convinced that making the place look like an Applebees, or something, will make the kids buy more school lunch.
Dumb.
Oh, also, they just deleted the Instructional Math Coach and ESL Specialist positions from my wife's school. Both of which could have been maintained with something like $30-$40k of that left over.
Pretty smart spending going on.
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I think if you are going to claim "more funding than ever before" you should at least account for inflation.
Yeah - inflation has just been off the charts recently.
It is intellectually dishonest to not use inflation adjustments when comparing funding year-to-year. No one is claiming it will make much difference, but it is a good starting point. It makes no sense to do it unless there is an ulterior motive. I explained that there was a purposeful attempt to re-define "per-pupil" spending to game the statistics. The lack of inflation adjusted numbers is in keeping with the "apples to oranges" nature of the comparison being put forth.
It is fine to be uninformed about the basic vocabulary and numbers of the debate, as you admitted earlier, but to then get pissy when others point out basic problems with the statistics you posted is further evidence that you aren't interested in actually knowing what is happening here.
I'm not running the numbers against inflation because I'm not running the numbers. Instead, I'm doing a google search for numbers from a source I trust, like kansasopengov.org. Feel free to nitpick away, but the idea that Brownback is cutting spending on education is rough ridin' stupid. You are being rough ridin' stupid. Why? Almost speaks of an "alterior motive."
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What is it that makes kansasopengov.org a source you can trust?
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What is it that makes kansasopengov.org a source you can trust?
Because it is a government transparency website devoted to reporting raw numbers straight from official government sources (the numbers I posted above came straight from the Department of Education) without manipulation or editorial content.
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What is it that makes kansasopengov.org a source you can trust?
Because it is a government transparency website devoted to reporting raw numbers straight from official government sources (the numbers I posted above came straight from the Department of Education) without manipulation or editorial content.
It's a service provided by the Kansas Policy Institute, which appears to be a right-wing blog at first glance anyway.
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What is it that makes kansasopengov.org a source you can trust?
Because it is a government transparency website devoted to reporting raw numbers straight from official government sources (the numbers I posted above came straight from the Department of Education) without manipulation or editorial content.
It's a service provided by the Kansas Policy Institute, which appears to be a right-wing blog at first glance anyway.
So the numbers didn't come from the KSDE?
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What is it that makes kansasopengov.org a source you can trust?
Because it is a government transparency website devoted to reporting raw numbers straight from official government sources (the numbers I posted above came straight from the Department of Education) without manipulation or editorial content.
It's a service provided by the Kansas Policy Institute, which appears to be a right-wing blog at first glance anyway.
So the numbers didn't come from the KSDE?
I'm sure they probably did. We have no idea if the numbers for previous years were calculated the same way as the last few years have been, though. There isn't any transparency coming from the KSDE. The study I quoted got its data from the US Census bureau.
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I don't trust the US Census Bureau.
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2 of my family members are teachers and ksopgov isn't accurate. Many salaries are inflated
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2 of my family members are teachers and ksopgov isn't accurate. Many salaries are inflated
It is salaries + benefits.
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2 of my family members are teachers and ksopgov isn't accurate. Many salaries are inflated
It is salaries + benefits.
Which makes sense, considering those benefits supposedly make up such an important part of their compensation.
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Finally found the official spending numbers direct from the KSDE. Buried deep on their website (curious that they're so hard to find...)
http://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School%20Finance/data_warehouse/total_expenditures/d0Stateexp.pdf (http://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School%20Finance/data_warehouse/total_expenditures/d0Stateexp.pdf)
The KansasOpenGov numbers are correct. We are now spending more money on KS education than ever before, both in total dollars and per pupil. Feel free to adjust these numbers for almost non-existent inflation - it won't matter.
I also did a google news search for these numbers. Not one, single, article. Strange.
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We went over the differences. You can make the claim that more money is being spent on schools. There are lots of resources that will explain what changed in regards to the definition of "per pupil" and "total" spending and why there were competing claims about the issues if you are interested. It was a major campaign issue the last election.
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We went over the differences. You can make the claim that more money is being spent on schools. There are lots of resources that will explain what changed in regards to the definition of "per pupil" and "total" spending and why there were competing claims about the issues if you are interested. It was a major campaign issue the last election.
Ok. I'll just use the numbers actually provided by the KS Department of Education.
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We went over the differences. You can make the claim that more money is being spent on schools. There are lots of resources that will explain what changed in regards to the definition of "per pupil" and "total" spending and why there were competing claims about the issues if you are interested. It was a major campaign issue the last election.
Ok. I'll just use the numbers actually provided by the KS Department of Education.
Heads up: This is a department of the same regime that stated over and over during the election that our tax policy isn't going to be a budget issue, then immediately told us all how behind we are on rev one month after winning.
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CNS, give me a buzz when you find a local or state government that doesn't think it's "underfunded" or "starving for resources". Better yet, call me when one has "more money than it knows what to do with" or at the very least considers itself "satisfactorily funded".
You gals are chasing your tails here.
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Ok, so I guess we're going to shift from the source of the numbers to pretending that the KSDE is somehow in league with Brownback or the Republican legislators because it's a gov agency? :facepalm:
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Ok, so I guess we're going to shift from the source of the numbers to pretending that the KSDE is somehow in league with Brownback or the Republican legislators because it's a gov agency? :facepalm:
They absolutely are told how to calculate/report their numbers by the governor/legislature.
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Ok, so I guess we're going to shift from the source of the numbers to pretending that the KSDE is somehow in league with Brownback or the Republican legislators because it's a gov agency? :facepalm:
They absolutely are told how to calculate/report their numbers by the governor/legislature.
No, they absolutely aren't. You're absolutely wrong. Take for example...
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article7843530.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article7843530.html)
Gov. Sam Brownback's proposed budget represents about a $127.4 million cut in schools' regular K-12 operating funds from this fiscal year to next year, according to a report released Tuesday [this article is from January] by the state Department of Education.
Some Senate Republicans dispute that the cut is really that deep, saying the education department figure doesn't account for spending on bonds and interest for school construction and payments to the state retirement fund.
The KSDE's computations are not dicated by the governor or republican legislature. In fact, the KSDE has zero incentive to inflate its own figures as to how much is being spent on education. If anything, they are undervalued. Hence, the KSDE burying its own spending calculations. If the numbers could have shown an actual cut, they would have been featured prominently on the front page.
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Some Senate Republican leaders dispute that the cut is really that deep, saying the education department figure doesn’t account for spending on bonds and interest for school construction and payments to the state retirement fund.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article7843530.html#storylink=cpy
Interesting that the state ed department figures now account for spending on bonds and interest as well as payments to the state retirement fund. I wonder what changed their minds.
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As another example, recall the dispute earlier this year over whether those mean Republicans were "cutting" education spending when they revised the budget to appropriate less money than they originally committed to, but still more than the last fiscal year. How'd that happen? The KSDE undervalued the original appropriation in reporting to the legislature. The legislature relied upon the KSDE's numbers in crafting the budget, only to be informed by the KSDE just a few months later that the appropriation they passed was actually $63.6 million more than they intended. So, the legislature amended the budget to reduce the amount by about $28 million. And the libtards went berserk, calling it a "cut." You can read all about it here:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article9524750.html (http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article9524750.html)
Your statement that the governor/legislature tells the KSDE how to compute their numbers is asinine. Flat. Out. Wrong.
But even the KSDE cannot deny that funding is at an all time high.
Quit being so naive. :dropsmic:
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As another example, recall the dispute earlier this year over whether those mean Republicans were "cutting" education spending when they revised the budget to appropriate less money than they originally committed to, but still more than the last fiscal year. How'd that happen? The KSDE undervalued the original appropriation in reporting to the legislature. The legislature relied upon the KSDE's numbers in crafting the budget, only to be informed by the KSDE just a few months later that the appropriation they passed was actually $63.6 million more than they intended. So, the legislature amended the budget to reduce the amount by about $28 million. And the libtards went berserk, calling it a "cut." You can read all about it here:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article9524750.html (http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article9524750.html)
Your statement that the governor/legislature tells the KSDE how to compute their numbers is asinine. Flat. Out. Wrong.
But even the KSDE cannot deny that funding is at an all time high.
Quit being so naive. :dropsmic:
Well, yeah, their formula used to have a lot of moving targets and their estimates were off. It's very similar to how the state sets its budget on variable revenues and end up missing by like $1 billion. It's as much of a cut as the state adjusting taxes to meet expected revenues would be a tax increase.
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Every time I point out the error in your post, you just shift to something else. I'm done with that.
The KSDE is either getting more money than last year, or they're not. They're either getting more money than ever before, or they're not. In both cases, the answer is indisputably the former, by the KSDE's own numbers.
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
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http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/05/05/3654912/brownback-says-waitress-urged-tip-schools-entitled-opinion/
Clay Barker, Kansas GOP director, wasn’t quite so measured in his response, however, on the television station’s Facebook page, questioning why the station would ignore compliments to the governor and focus on Hough.
Barker wrote, “So you are publicizing her arrogant stupidity and utter ignorance. Typical liberal KS media,” and “Why would the Kansas media, well-known for its frequent liberal, anti-Brownback disposition, go to such lengths to highlight a rude comment from a single individual?”
:lol:
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
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Every time I point out the error in your post, you just shift to something else. I'm done with that.
The KSDE is either getting more money than last year, or they're not. They're either getting more money than ever before, or they're not. In both cases, the answer is indisputably the former, by the KSDE's own numbers.
Can you explain the chart I posted with the same source as yours that showed that schools weren't getting as much money if you used a consistent definition of "per pupil spending" and adjusted for inflation?
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Every time I point out the error in your post, you just shift to something else. I'm done with that.
The KSDE is either getting more money than last year, or they're not. They're either getting more money than ever before, or they're not. In both cases, the answer is indisputably the former, by the KSDE's own numbers.
Can you explain the chart I posted with the same source as yours that showed that schools weren't getting as much money if you used a consistent definition of "per pupil spending" and adjusted for inflation?
You should probably take that up with the KSDE. Let us know when you get a response.
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http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/05/05/3654912/brownback-says-waitress-urged-tip-schools-entitled-opinion/
Clay Barker, Kansas GOP director, wasn’t quite so measured in his response, however, on the television station’s Facebook page, questioning why the station would ignore compliments to the governor and focus on Hough.
Barker wrote, “So you are publicizing her arrogant stupidity and utter ignorance. Typical liberal KS media,” and “Why would the Kansas media, well-known for its frequent liberal, anti-Brownback disposition, go to such lengths to highlight a rude comment from a single individual?”
:lol:
OMG
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KS, and all it's liberals, really make daily life tough on 'pubs.
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Dear liberals,
You look really rough ridin' dumb in this thread.
Your pal,
Sugar Dick
P.S.
The "schools are broke" rhetoric is political bullshit, as demonstrated ad nauseum in this thread, according to either sides numbers.
P.S.S.
I cringe every time one of you retards posts a think to thinkprogress. Don't claim something like a government agency is partisan, and then use that in your retort.
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
It looks like we are about $400k below 2009 levels, actually. That shouldn't make a huge difference if you spread it over the entire state, but when schools were budgeted more than $40 million more than the state ended up paying them this year, I think it's pretty easy to see why some of them might have to close early, lay off teachers, or end extra-curricular programs.
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
You don't seem to have an even basic grasp on school financing. You realize that not school districts rely on multiple sources of revenue, right?
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
You don't seem to have an even basic grasp on school financing. You realize that not school districts rely on multiple sources of revenue, right?
Did you even look at the KSDE's numbers? They include federal, state, and local revenue.
Local revenue is computed by determining the total expenditures minus state and federal aid. It is not unusual for a district to accumulate monies in its capital outlay fund for large projects and spend the money in one year. During that year, expenditures will be higher than usual and may drop the following year. Also, in those districts where the voters have approved for a bond issue, the expenditures would be higher in the year that the district begins making bond payments.
You. Are. Flailing.
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
It looks like we are about $400k below 2009 levels, actually. That shouldn't make a huge difference if you spread it over the entire state, but when schools were budgeted more than $40 million more than the state ended up paying them this year, I think it's pretty easy to see why some of them might have to close early, lay off teachers, or end extra-curricular programs.
Huh. Let's look to the KSDE numbers...
| School Year | Enrollment | State Aid | Federal Aid | Local Revenue | Total Spent | Total Per Pupil |
| 2008-2009 | 447,615.1 | 3,287,165,278 | 413,624,558 | 1,965,551,201 | 5,666,731,992 | 12,660 |
| 2013-2014 | 461,088.3 | 3,267,998,852 | 485,563,067 | 2,221,955,762 | 5,975,517,681 | 12,960 |
So, in total dollars, that's 5,975,517,681 - 5,666,731,992 = $308,785,689 more in 2014 than 2009.
And per pupil, that's 12,960 - 12,660 = $300 more per pupil in 2014 than 2009.
If you dispute the KSDE's numbers, you should really take it up with them. I'm sure they'd love to be able to demonstrate an actual spending cut.
Flailing.
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Maybe you should try putting $3.287 billion in an inflation calculator and see what you get.
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For those of you keeping score at home, I think this is a current running list of libtard denials for record funding...
1. INFLATION in the last decade.
2. Left wing think tank distortions.
3. KSDE official numbers can't be trusted cause they're in league with the GOP (my favorite)
4. A couple of districts are ending the school year a couple days early.
I'll try to keep this updated as we move along.
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For those of you keeping score at home, I think this is a current running list of libtard denials for record funding...
1. INFLATION in the last decade.
2. Left wing think tank distortions.
3. KSDE official numbers can't be trusted cause they're in league with the GOP (my favorite)
4. A couple of districts are ending the school year a couple days early.
I'll try to keep this updated as we move along.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=3.28&year1=2009&year2=2015
3.28 in 2009 = 3.59 today
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
You don't seem to have an even basic grasp on school financing. You realize that not school districts rely on multiple sources of revenue, right?
Did you even look at the KSDE's numbers? They include federal, state, and local revenue.
Local revenue is computed by determining the total expenditures minus state and federal aid. It is not unusual for a district to accumulate monies in its capital outlay fund for large projects and spend the money in one year. During that year, expenditures will be higher than usual and may drop the following year. Also, in those districts where the voters have approved for a bond issue, the expenditures would be higher in the year that the district begins making bond payments.
You. Are. Flailing.
Right. But that is not the same for each district.
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
You don't seem to have an even basic grasp on school financing. You realize that not school districts rely on multiple sources of revenue, right?
Did you even look at the KSDE's numbers? They include federal, state, and local revenue.
Local revenue is computed by determining the total expenditures minus state and federal aid. It is not unusual for a district to accumulate monies in its capital outlay fund for large projects and spend the money in one year. During that year, expenditures will be higher than usual and may drop the following year. Also, in those districts where the voters have approved for a bond issue, the expenditures would be higher in the year that the district begins making bond payments.
You. Are. Flailing.
Right. But that is not the same for each district.
Obviously, I'm not looking at this on a district-by-district level. How the money is being apportioned and whether it is equitable is a different issue.
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For those of you keeping score at home, I think this is a current running list of libtard denials for record funding...
1. INFLATION in the last decade.
2. Left wing think tank distortions.
3. KSDE official numbers can't be trusted cause they're in league with the GOP (my favorite)
4. A couple of districts are ending the school year a couple days early.
I'll try to keep this updated as we move along.
It is a bit funny that you dismiss inflation, when you were one of the inflation bugs on here. But whatever. It is just a fact that the numbers from KSDE/KPI are not inflation adjusted. That is an undisputed fact and makes a difference. A difference that makes your "highest funding levels ever" claim false. That makes it relevant.
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For those of you keeping score at home, I think this is a current running list of libtard denials for record funding...
1. INFLATION in the last decade.
2. Left wing think tank distortions.
3. KSDE official numbers can't be trusted cause they're in league with the GOP (my favorite)
4. A couple of districts are ending the school year a couple days early.
I'll try to keep this updated as we move along.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=3.28&year1=2009&year2=2015
3.28 in 2009 = 3.59 today
Right. I'm not disputing inflation. I'm disputing that it makes any meaningful difference in the real world cost of educating our kids, especially during the "Obama recovery."
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Where is all of the money going, then?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue
And here you go deflecting to another issue yet again. I can't tell you how individual districts are spending their money (well, actually, I could because this will alleventually be reported by the KSDE, but I'm not going to waste my time on that) - my guess is, wastefully, given that they've got more money than ever before. Or (gasp), maybe closing a couple of days early is a nice publicity stunt.
You think schools are furloughing teachers for publicity?
I don't know, and I don't really care. More likely, they're just not managing their record-level funding properly.
It's really pretty embarrassing for you to keep flailing away like this. We're spending more than ever before. It's a point beyond dispute.
You don't seem to have an even basic grasp on school financing. You realize that not school districts rely on multiple sources of revenue, right?
Did you even look at the KSDE's numbers? They include federal, state, and local revenue.
Local revenue is computed by determining the total expenditures minus state and federal aid. It is not unusual for a district to accumulate monies in its capital outlay fund for large projects and spend the money in one year. During that year, expenditures will be higher than usual and may drop the following year. Also, in those districts where the voters have approved for a bond issue, the expenditures would be higher in the year that the district begins making bond payments.
You. Are. Flailing.
Right. But that is not the same for each district.
Obviously, I'm not looking at this on a district-by-district level. How the money is being apportioned and whether it is equitable is a different issue.
Well, it is related to the "a couple of districts are ending the school year a couple days early" part. Talking about "total funding levels" is going miss why some districts are feeling squeezed and others aren't.
-
For those of you keeping score at home, I think this is a current running list of libtard denials for record funding...
1. INFLATION in the last decade.
2. Left wing think tank distortions.
3. KSDE official numbers can't be trusted cause they're in league with the GOP (my favorite)
4. A couple of districts are ending the school year a couple days early.
I'll try to keep this updated as we move along.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=3.28&year1=2009&year2=2015
3.28 in 2009 = 3.59 today
Right. I'm not disputing inflation. I'm disputing that it makes any meaningful difference in the real world cost of educating our kids, especially during the "Obama recovery."
It makes about $300 million difference when you compare the 08-09 budget to the 14-15 budget.
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
probably salaries, real estate, and transportation
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
It's totally smokes
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
:lol: this is great. I bet the numbers will look better if you use transportation and energy costs.
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I think the cost of new Steinway grand pianos has gone up - oh, that was in Missouri.
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
probably salaries, real estate, and transportation
Average Joe with kids in school has seen his net worth shrink during those years.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advisorperspectives.com%2Fdshort%2Fcharts%2Fcensus%2Fhousehold-incomes-mean-real.gif&hash=1f499c4e45c19a6d3da33122f490c9bf4740160c)
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Guys, inflation is a real thing. It's widely known that economists look to three major benchmarks in measuring inflation: the cost of gas, milk, and public education.
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I think the cost of new Steinway grand pianos has gone up - oh, that was in Missouri.
No it was in Kansas. And this is a typical example of something stupid to complain about.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8867900.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8867900.html)
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Serious question, does Kansas have a single one of the "urban areas" surveyed for the CPI? Wichita or KCK maybe?
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Clearly all CPI questions thus far have been very serious.
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I think the cost of new Steinway grand pianos has gone up - oh, that was in Missouri.
No it was in Kansas. And this is a typical example of something stupid to complain about.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8867900.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article8867900.html)
Huh. But isn't Sumner a private school, or is it a magnet? If it's getting the same public funds as other schools, then yeah, this is something to complain about. Even for a good high school music program like Sumner, you can get a perfectly good grand piano for less than half what they spent on that Mercedes. But, you know, inflation.
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
:lol: this is great. I bet the numbers will look better if you use transportation and energy costs.
:lol: you're the dumbass who brought the cost of consumer goods into the public school funding thread.
I would guess the overwhelming cause of the shrinking school budgets are related to the rapidly expanding compensation (health insurance, pensions, pay) of teachers, current and legacy. But hey, they do it all for the kids. That's why a kindergarten teacher needs tenure. As with any industry suffocating and starved for cash, one need to look no further than the union.
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Yup, teachers just make too much God damn money :curse:
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It is pretty great that lots of people on this board were talking about how much inflation there was that CPI wasn't catching and now KSU and FSD are claiming that there inflation is irrelevant.
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It is pretty great that lots of people on this board were talking about how much inflation there was that CPI wasn't catching and now KSU and FSD are claiming that there inflation is irrelevant.
Was I one of those people?
(I wasn't. A little inflation each year is a good thing). But again, if arguing that it costs 10% more to teach Kansas students in 2014 than in 2009 due to the CPI surveys in urban areas of prices of things that largely don't impact schools, you're delusional. But we already knew that.
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It is pretty great that lots of people on this board were talking about how much inflation there was that CPI wasn't catching and now KSU and FSD are claiming that there inflation is irrelevant.
Was I one of those people?
(I wasn't. A little inflation each year is a good thing). But again, if arguing that it costs 10% more to teach Kansas students in 2014 than in 2009 due to the CPI surveys in urban areas of prices of things that largely don't impact schools, you're delusional. But we already knew that.
I think it costs pretty much the same after you convert 2009 dollars to 2015 dollars.
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Hey guys, sorry to interrupt, but Mr. Dave told me to come tell you guys to keep it down. He said he is really busy and that you guys were being a little bit too loud.
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I would guess the overwhelming cause of the shrinking school budgets are related to the rapidly expanding compensation (health insurance, pensions, pay) of teachers, current and legacy. But hey, they do it all for the kids.
:ROFL:
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You guys said inflation is out of control (wut?) therefore inflation has a 100% direct correlation to the cost of schooling, but there isn't inflation, but it strongly effects schooling, and the most money ever is actually the least money ever by a long shot and kids are walking around barefoot and starving.
You people are so rough ridin' stupid, it's pathetic. :lol:
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You guys said inflation is out of control (wut?) therefore inflation has a 100% direct correlation to the cost of schooling, but there isn't inflation, but it strongly effects schooling, and the most money ever is actually the least money ever by a long shot and kids are walking around barefoot and starving.
You people are so rough ridin' stupid, it's pathetic. :lol:
The dollar losing about 10% of its value over a 7-8 year time period is hardly out of control inflation.
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You guys said inflation is out of control (wut?) therefore inflation has a 100% direct correlation to the cost of schooling, but there isn't inflation, but it strongly effects schooling, and the most money ever is actually the least money ever by a long shot and kids are walking around barefoot and starving.
You people are so rough ridin' stupid, it's pathetic. :lol:
The dollar losing about 10% of its value over a 7-8 year time period is hardly out of control inflation.
Thanks
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Question for the monstrously stupid indoctrinated morons itt:
Which of the consumer goods in the cpi basket has driven the cost of education up the most? Apartment rent? Wine? Airfare? Cigarettes?
I mean, come on. . .
:lol: this is great. I bet the numbers will look better if you use transportation and energy costs.
I did a little sleuthing for you using the cpi website. It's a wealth of knowledge, so you probably wouldn't be interested.
I took the 2008 average for energy (which is excluded from core cpi bc it's so volatile) and transportation and compared to year end 2014 (no averages yet)
Here's the (de)inflation:
Energy: -18%
Transportation: 2.01%
So, ha ha ha ha, dumbsticks
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:lol:
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pwn3d
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We've been over this. The cost of a concert-grade Steinway grand piano is up over 200% from five years ago. $6 billion simply is not enough to adequately educate young Kansans in this day and age. #TIPTHESCHOOLSYOUEVILREPUBLICANS #IMINFORMEDBECAUSEIWATCHTHENEWS
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If I had to wager I would guess deep seated psychological id racism from conservatives has caused the cost of crayons and notepad paper to accelerate in cost far greater then brownback has funded it. Of course we don't give a eff what's going on with the budget...when a Democrat is governor.
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If I had to wager I would guess deep seated psychological id racism from conservatives has caused the cost of crayons and notepad paper to accelerate in cost far greater then brownback has funded it. Of course we don't give a eff what's going on with the budget...when a Democrat is governor.
Nope, just a historically low inflation rate, accumulated over 8 years.
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I'd bet the cost of a 10-pack of markers in 2009 was the same 1.99 it is today. But maybe now you only get 9 markers??? I'm telling you guys, a buck just doesn't stretch as far now as the good ol days in aught-9. I guess that's the downside of this booming recovery!
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Lol at crayons and markers being bought by the schools. Teachers and kids cover that.
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I'd bet the cost of a 10-pack of markers in 2009 was the same 1.99 it is today. But maybe now you only get 9 markers??? I'm telling you guys, a buck just doesn't stretch as far now as the good ol days in aught-9. I guess that's the downside of this booming recovery!
I'm sure that the average costs of things schools pay for have increased by about 10%, just like they have for every other business and individual.
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I don't think school supplies are really the issue.
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I don't think school supplies are really the issue.
Nope, just draconian budget cuts and the cost of consumer goods. With the former being unfounded rhetoric, and the latter being wholly unrelated.
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Yup. Back then, in The Nine we used to call it, a shoeshine cost a nickel. Twitterin was for the birds. They were simpler times back then, by golly.
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Maybe you guys should try a strategy that doesn't make you look so ignorant of how the world works. Something like "we were spending too much money on schools in 2009" would be a whole lot better.
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Well, so much for the "schools closing early" crap. The evil Republicans have decided to #tiptheschools. http://www.gctelegram.com/news/state/state-council-hands-in-emergency-funding-to-five-public-school/article_56ee7f26-b931-5a40-a45e-90d680b4cbb5.html (http://www.gctelegram.com/news/state/state-council-hands-in-emergency-funding-to-five-public-school/article_56ee7f26-b931-5a40-a45e-90d680b4cbb5.html)
Tack this on to the record amount being spent on public schools in Kansas.
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Maybe you guys should try a strategy that doesn't make you look so ignorant of how the world works. Something like "we were spending too much money on schools in 2009" would be a whole lot better.
Says the guy who honestly believes it costs 10% more to provide a quality education to our students now than it did five years ago - based on CPI surveys of select goods in urban areas.
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Well, so much for the "schools closing early" crap. The evil Republicans have decided to #tiptheschools. http://www.gctelegram.com/news/state/state-council-hands-in-emergency-funding-to-five-public-school/article_56ee7f26-b931-5a40-a45e-90d680b4cbb5.html (http://www.gctelegram.com/news/state/state-council-hands-in-emergency-funding-to-five-public-school/article_56ee7f26-b931-5a40-a45e-90d680b4cbb5.html)
Tack this on to the record amount being spent on public schools in Kansas.
The article says some got paid and others didn't. Brownback wanted to fund them all, but I guess the republicans just don't like him anymore.
Maybe you guys should try a strategy that doesn't make you look so ignorant of how the world works. Something like "we were spending too much money on schools in 2009" would be a whole lot better.
Says the guy who honestly believes it costs 10% more to provide a quality education to our students now than it did five years ago - based on CPI surveys of select goods in urban areas.
You are the guy who thinks it costs 0% more, so I'd check the cheek if I were you.
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Hey guys, good news! Now we can all #tiptheschools!!! http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares (http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares)
So far, we've raised a whopping $613! That's 0.15 cents per each Paul Davis voter! CAUTION: these numbers are not adjusted for rampant inflation.
What should the schools buy with it?
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Hey guys, good news! Now we can all #tiptheschools!!! http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares (http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares)
So far, we've raised a whopping $613! That's 0.15 cents per each Paul Davis voter! CAUTION: these numbers are not adjusted for rampant inflation.
What should the schools buy with it?
My wife collects box tops. I think that is enough.
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Hey guys, good news! Now we can all #tiptheschools!!! http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares (http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares)
So far, we've raised a whopping $613! That's 0.15 cents per each Paul Davis voter! CAUTION: these numbers are not adjusted for rampant inflation.
What should the schools buy with it?
My wife collects box tops. I think that is enough.
Mine too. How does that even raise money? :dunno:
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Hey guys, good news! Now we can all #tiptheschools!!! http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares (http://www.gofundme.com/tpsuuk?fb_action_ids=437486613089090&fb_action_types=og.shares)
So far, we've raised a whopping $613! That's 0.15 cents per each Paul Davis voter! CAUTION: these numbers are not adjusted for rampant inflation.
What should the schools buy with it?
My wife collects box tops. I think that is enough.
Mine too. How does that even raise money? :dunno:
I think it might be a scam, honestly. I have no idea how it works.
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I'd really like to know how the waitress plans to divvy up the GFM proceeds. It would be neat if she actually tried to follow the same byzantine formula the legislature just scrapped. At some point pretty early on she would probably stop and think "damn, this is totally mumped up - maybe the GOP was on to something."
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I'd really like to know how the waitress plans to divvy up the GFM proceeds. It would be neat if she actually tried to follow the same byzantine formula the legislature just scrapped. At some point pretty early on she would probably stop and think "damn, this is totally mumped up - maybe the GOP was on to something."
She's probably going to take one of those giant checks to the statehouse so she can embarrass the pubs on tv like the KU student who did the bake sale did. The money will end up in the general fund and get spent on something other than schools, most likely.
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Yeah that makes sense I guess. Plus, a novelty check is way more tweet'able. I like my way better though.
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Yeah that makes sense I guess. Plus, a novelty check is way more tweet'able. I like my way better though.
There is some sort of formula with regards to size of check $ and size of check in square inches that is undisputable but I'm not sure what the exact figures are.
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KC Public Schools (http://kckps.org/index.php/news-releases/609-kckps-responds-to-release-from-governor-s-office) does a nice job of summarizing the "increase in funding" talking point and why district's budgets aren't actually showing the additional dollars.
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Meanwhile, KS Legislature is finally figuring out the entire budget as it gets slopped together through amendments with no scoring, no clue what the actual effect will be to any of them and probably lots of issues and maybe even a special session to clean up the mess later.
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Meanwhile, KS Legislature is finally figuring out the entire budget as it gets slopped together through amendments with no scoring, no clue what the actual effect will be to any of them and probably lots of issues and maybe even a special session to clean up the mess later.
Sounds like the ACA, except for the "figuring out" part
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Wow, eliminating exemptions for non profits AND lowering sales tax. FIXED!
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Welp, they killed the exemption, so now we have a tax cut without a way to pay for it.
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Welp, they killed the exemption, so now we have a tax cut without a way to pay for it.
That would have been something else if non-profits had to pay taxes and LLCs didn't.
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Lol
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Welp, they killed the exemption, so now we have a tax cut without a way to pay for it.
Amazing.
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yakety sax on blast/repeat
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How will this affect johnson county private school attenders? Do I have more money now?
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KC Public Schools (http://kckps.org/index.php/news-releases/609-kckps-responds-to-release-from-governor-s-office) does a nice job of summarizing the "increase in funding" talking point and why district's budgets aren't actually showing the additional dollars.
Huh, I'm not sure I would say this was a "nice job" summarizing funding facts. It seems more like the typical blather we've heard from the teacher's union and regurgitated by the media. For example...
Next, the [recent Brownback communications director press release] implies that an additional $3.75 million per year (or $7.5 million over the life of the Block Grants) that the state is spending on the Kansas Public Employees Retirement System (KPERS) is money that the district can spend on schools.
Impies? There's no sleight of hand here. If you read the Ingrams article cited in the press release, it makes quite clear that the increase in school funding includes contributions to KPERS. And why shouldn't they?
If you take a job which includes a pension, you'd consider that pension to be part of your compensation, right? Especially if you took a job with government, where the pension can sometimes be a relatively large chunk of your compensation? So if it's part of teacher compensation, isn't that part of the cost of educating children? Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
This idea that the increase in school funding really isn't an increase at all because some of that money goes to the teachers' pension fund is incredibly libtarded.
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KC Public Schools (http://kckps.org/index.php/news-releases/609-kckps-responds-to-release-from-governor-s-office) does a nice job of summarizing the "increase in funding" talking point and why district's budgets aren't actually showing the additional dollars.
Huh, I'm not sure I would say this was a "nice job" summarizing funding facts. It seems more like the typical blather we've heard from the teacher's union and regurgitated by the media. For example...
Next, the [recent Brownback communications director press release] implies that an additional $3.75 million per year (or $7.5 million over the life of the Block Grants) that the state is spending on the Kansas Public Employees Retirement System (KPERS) is money that the district can spend on schools.
Impies? There's no sleight of hand here. If you read the Ingrams article cited in the press release, it makes quite clear that the increase in school funding includes contributions to KPERS. And why shouldn't they?
If you take a job which includes a pension, you'd consider that pension to be part of your compensation, right? Especially if you took a job with government, where the pension can sometimes be a relatively large chunk of your compensation? So if it's part of teacher compensation, isn't that part of the cost of educating children? Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
This idea that the increase in school funding really isn't an increase at all because some of that money goes to the teachers' pension fund is incredibly libtarded.
The state absolutely did spend more on KPERS. My position has been that the state's/your/KPI's argument about funding was a bit more complicated than "most dollars evar!" because 1) not adjusting for inflation 2) not using a consistent definition of per-pupil spending 3) block grants
The KPERS money has always (and still is) a completely independent funding mechanism and the dollars don't really involve the districts at all, teachers (or other govt. workers) and the state are making the contributions. No one is saying that the state did not make contributions to KPERS, just that districts don't see the money.
The reason districts say they are experiencing cuts is as the post describes.
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KC Public Schools (http://kckps.org/index.php/news-releases/609-kckps-responds-to-release-from-governor-s-office) does a nice job of summarizing the "increase in funding" talking point and why district's budgets aren't actually showing the additional dollars.
Huh, I'm not sure I would say this was a "nice job" summarizing funding facts. It seems more like the typical blather we've heard from the teacher's union and regurgitated by the media. For example...
Next, the [recent Brownback communications director press release] implies that an additional $3.75 million per year (or $7.5 million over the life of the Block Grants) that the state is spending on the Kansas Public Employees Retirement System (KPERS) is money that the district can spend on schools.
Impies? There's no sleight of hand here. If you read the Ingrams article cited in the press release, it makes quite clear that the increase in school funding includes contributions to KPERS. And why shouldn't they?
If you take a job which includes a pension, you'd consider that pension to be part of your compensation, right? Especially if you took a job with government, where the pension can sometimes be a relatively large chunk of your compensation? So if it's part of teacher compensation, isn't that part of the cost of educating children? Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
This idea that the increase in school funding really isn't an increase at all because some of that money goes to the teachers' pension fund is incredibly libtarded.
The state absolutely did spend more on KPERS. My position has been that the state's/your/KPI's argument about funding was a bit more complicated than "most dollars evar!" because 1) not adjusting for inflation 2) not using a consistent definition of per-pupil spending 3) block grants
The KPERS money has always (and still is) a completely independent funding mechanism and the dollars don't really involve the districts at all, teachers (or other govt. workers) and the state are making the contributions. No one is saying that the state did not make contributions to KPERS, just that districts don't see the money.
The reason districts say they are experiencing cuts is as the post describes.
Ok, so you really believe that money spent on teachers' pensions should not be included in the amount of money spent on education. Amazing. But actually, this leads to an easy solution. If it's not part of the cost of education, then I think we can agree that we should stop wasting all this money on pensions and buy more iPads for the kids. No more pensions, more iPads = smarter kids. I'm sure the union will love this idea.
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That is not what I said. I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed. I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed. I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake. I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.
The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.
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Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
You mean like slaves?
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That is not what I said. I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed. I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed. I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake. I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.
The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.
Well, I'll agree with you that the post does a good job of explaining the absurd "reasoning" of the teachers' union. But they can't have their cake and eat it too - if the money is spent on teacher benefits, there's less money to spend on other things. (Actually, I guess they can have their cake and eat it too as long as they and the Supreme Court continue to pressure the legislature to spend ever growing gobs of cash on education, which is the whole point of this dishonest campaign.)
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Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
You mean like slaves?
I don't consider volunteers to be slaves, do you? Seriously though, I don't expect teachers to work for free, but they're laying on the irony a little thick complaining about funding "cuts" because more money was spent shoring up their pensions.
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Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
You mean like slaves?
I don't consider volunteers to be slaves, do you? Seriously though, I don't expect teachers to work for free, but they're laying on the irony a little thick complaining about funding "cuts" because more money was spent shoring up their pensions.
I guess they should be happy that the state finally agreed to fund the pension program they agreed to fund when they took the job in the first place. That's basically the same thing as a raise.
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Volunteers? Oh man!
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Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?
You mean like slaves?
I don't consider volunteers to be slaves, do you? Seriously though, I don't expect teachers to work for free, but they're laying on the irony a little thick complaining about funding "cuts" because more money was spent shoring up their pensions.
I guess they should be happy that the state finally agreed to fund the pension program they agreed to fund when they took the job in the first place. That's basically the same thing as a raise.
Yeah its times like this that KSUW makes it totally clear he has no rough ridin' clue what the facts are in this and he is flying as blind as a single issue voter. He is probably worse than them on a theoretical level because they just lack knowledge whereas KSUW is willfully blinding himself for his partisan interests over the facts.
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/riSW1_Fma4XrlUUSW9XNoEQYXygelB0iCcj1WhZIbM_hAmrrE5FkqzHaab6e5n39wcNRp7SHTFLMYFFw8ZbydnzTF_D3-CtcAJ9Rq1AFpvSZspas7Tyh2UvOhKW9I_xx3A)
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That is not what I said. I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed. I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed. I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake. I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.
The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.
Well, I'll agree with you that the post does a good job of explaining the absurd "reasoning" of the teachers' union. But they can't have their cake and eat it too - if the money is spent on teacher benefits, there's less money to spend on other things. (Actually, I guess they can have their cake and eat it too as long as they and the Supreme Court continue to pressure the legislature to spend ever growing gobs of cash on education, which is the whole point of this dishonest campaign.)
1. The link I posted was a response sent out by the central office of Kansas City, Kansas Public Schools (KCKPS). Consider it to be the words of the superintendent's office. That is the chief representative that a teacher's union would bargain with (against/in opposition to) to determine the benefits/salary working conditions within a district.
2. KPERS is not bargained at the local level and has nothing to do with school district budgets. It is a retirement pension plan that the state of Kansas set up for government employees and that since 1970 has included teachers. It is entirely under the purview of the state legislature and while benefits are promised/guaranteed to members that have already been vested, it is not guaranteed in perpetuity for new workers. In other words, the legislature has the power to change it to a 401k style program at any time for non-vested members. I'm not sure exactly how it would work for people that are already vested, but it isn't guaranteed by the constitution, so my understanding is the pension is pretty much entirely within the purview of the legislature. They exercise control of it.
3. It is perfectly fine to note that when looking at the totality of dollars, the legislature just spent money on KPERS, and that KPERS relates to education and to even label that "education spending." It is absolutely true that the money ultimately comes from the same source-- taxpayers. No qualms with any of that thinking. But it has anything to do with districts or why they are having budget issues, which was what I was talking about.
HTH
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That is not what I said. I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed. I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed. I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake. I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.
The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.
Well, I'll agree with you that the post does a good job of explaining the absurd "reasoning" of the teachers' union. But they can't have their cake and eat it too - if the money is spent on teacher benefits, there's less money to spend on other things. (Actually, I guess they can have their cake and eat it too as long as they and the Supreme Court continue to pressure the legislature to spend ever growing gobs of cash on education, which is the whole point of this dishonest campaign.)
1. The link I posted was a response sent out by the central office of Kansas City, Kansas Public Schools (KCKPS). Consider it to be the words of the superintendent's office. That is the chief representative that a teacher's union would bargain with (against/in opposition to) to determine the benefits/salary working conditions within a district.
2. KPERS is not bargained at the local level and has nothing to do with school district budgets. It is a retirement pension plan that the state of Kansas set up for government employees and that since 1970 has included teachers. It is entirely under the purview of the state legislature and while benefits are promised/guaranteed to members that have already been vested, it is not guaranteed in perpetuity for new workers. In other words, the legislature has the power to change it to a 401k style program at any time for non-vested members. I'm not sure exactly how it would work for people that are already vested, but it isn't guaranteed by the constitution, so my understanding is the pension is pretty much entirely within the purview of the legislature. They exercise control of it.
3. It is perfectly fine to note that when looking at the totality of dollars, the legislature just spent money on KPERS, and that KPERS relates to education and to even label that "education spending." It is absolutely true that the money ultimately comes from the same source-- taxpayers. No qualms with any of that thinking. But it has anything to do with districts or why they are having budget issues, which was what I was talking about.
HTH
Wow. You really believe the fiction that the teachers union bargains "against" the KCKPS?! :lol: I don't think you understand the fundmanetal problem of public sector unions. I can't help you, KK. Continue to live your delusion.
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lol
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I can't help you. Continue to live your delusion.
Same.
:frown:
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Funniest part of the ongoing KS legislature shenanigans?
Tom Arpke, a KS Senate Republican from Salina, is a travel agent and booked an Alaskan cruise for the week thinking the session would be over. He is on the cruise and collecting his legislator pay.
I offer my consulting services free of charge in the hopes that this ad comes to fruition:
Tom Arpke voted against welfare recipients using their taxpayer dollars to go on a cruise. Then during the budget crisis, Tom Arpke booked himself a cruise on your tax payer dollars. Let's send Tom Arpke packing on November 1st and send him on a cruise far away from the capitol building.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kslegislature.org%2Fli_2014%2Fm%2Fimages%2Fpics%2Fsen_arpke_tom_1.jpg&hash=e3f5ab283b7c7c37932d295bbe8938ae7e6601a6)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justincarmony.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2FSeattleToAlaskaCruiseShip.jpg&hash=23586096c5fc1ad3dda57de72a3bee17a3dc9a05)
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Funniest part of the ongoing KS legislature shenanigans?
Tom Arpke, a KS Senate Republican from Salina, is a travel agent and booked an Alaskan cruise for the week thinking the session would be over. He is on the cruise and collecting his legislator pay.
I offer my consulting services free of charge in the hopes that this ad comes to fruition:
Tom Arpke voted against welfare recipients using their taxpayer dollars to go on a cruise. Then during the budget crisis, Tom Arpke booked himself a cruise on your tax payer dollars. Let's send Tom Arpke packing on November 1st and send him on a cruise far away from the capitol building.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kslegislature.org%2Fli_2014%2Fm%2Fimages%2Fpics%2Fsen_arpke_tom_1.jpg&hash=e3f5ab283b7c7c37932d295bbe8938ae7e6601a6)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justincarmony.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2FSeattleToAlaskaCruiseShip.jpg&hash=23586096c5fc1ad3dda57de72a3bee17a3dc9a05)
I don't know if this was your intent, but this sounds strikingly similar to the Obama vacation/golf memes the libtards love to deride.
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FWIW, the archaic "per pupil" formula is the whole reason the "school funding" issue is constantly being wrangled over. No matter how much money is spent on education, there's always a way to argue that it's being cut. It's ridiculous and 95% political propaganda.
It's quite a boon politically for the dems, and I imagine they want things as obfuscated as possible. They don't give a crap about people, just power. And this issue is their only foothold in Kansas. Congrats! The amount of money spent redebating this every year of every republican governorship could fill the budget gap 10 times over.
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I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow. Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well? Too busy?
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Kk is lying, there is no such thing as a travel agent
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Funniest part of the ongoing KS legislature shenanigans?
Tom Arpke, a KS Senate Republican from Salina, is a travel agent and booked an Alaskan cruise for the week thinking the session would be over. He is on the cruise and collecting his legislator pay.
I offer my consulting services free of charge in the hopes that this ad comes to fruition:
Tom Arpke voted against welfare recipients using their taxpayer dollars to go on a cruise. Then during the budget crisis, Tom Arpke booked himself a cruise on your tax payer dollars. Let's send Tom Arpke packing on November 1st and send him on a cruise far away from the capitol building.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kslegislature.org%2Fli_2014%2Fm%2Fimages%2Fpics%2Fsen_arpke_tom_1.jpg&hash=e3f5ab283b7c7c37932d295bbe8938ae7e6601a6)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justincarmony.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2FSeattleToAlaskaCruiseShip.jpg&hash=23586096c5fc1ad3dda57de72a3bee17a3dc9a05)
lol
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I won't be happy until someone I don't know publishes it on facebook and it gets posted in the political facebook thread.
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Kk is lying, there is no such thing as a travel agent
Probably a Russian Spy.
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Kk is lying, there is no such thing as a travel agent
our former mayor was also a "travel agent". drugs?
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Not drugs, just Salina.
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I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow. Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well? Too busy?
FYI, the governor is not a member of the legislature.
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I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow. Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well? Too busy?
Hopefully he Skypes in. The state needs to save all of the money it can.
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I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow. Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well? Too busy?
FYI, the governor is not a member of the legislature.
IIRC, that's right. I hope an out of town education-based forum is more important that signing a budget bill.
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Wait - is there a bill to sign? Last I heard, the Chamber GOP and Conservative GOP can't agree on which taxes to increase, and nobody (at least in leadership) has the guts to bring spending cuts to the floor for a vote.
I wonder if there is any precedent for this sort of budget impasse when one party so completely dominates the Legislature and Executive? It would actually be pretty amusing but for, you know, the liklihood of higher taxes.
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Wait - is there a bill to sign? Last I heard, the Chamber GOP and Conservative GOP can't agree on which taxes to increase, and nobody (at least in leadership) has the guts to bring spending cuts to the floor for a vote.
I wonder if there is any precedent for this sort of budget impasse when one party so completely dominates the Legislature and Executive? It would actually be pretty amusing but for, you know, the liklihood of higher taxes.
It seems like tax hikes are inevitable. The only debate is over who gets to take on the burden. Poor people seemed like the likely candidate, but they couldn't pass the sin tax, so who really knows where the revenue will come from.
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Wait - is there a bill to sign? Last I heard, the Chamber GOP and Conservative GOP can't agree on which taxes to increase, and nobody (at least in leadership) has the guts to bring spending cuts to the floor for a vote.
I wonder if there is any precedent for this sort of budget impasse when one party so completely dominates the Legislature and Executive? It would actually be pretty amusing but for, you know, the liklihood of higher taxes.
It seems like tax hikes are inevitable. The only debate is over who gets to take on the burden. Poor people seemed like the likely candidate, but they couldn't pass the sin tax, so who really knows where the revenue will come from.
I like the regressive nature of a sales tax, but it still means I end up paying more in taxes, too. So that's out. About the only tax I support is booze and cigarettes, but that's not going to raise $400 million. We should just cut our spending by 6% across the board. Problem solved. (Well, at least until the Supreme Court says we can't cut school spending, at which point it's finally time for the legislature to tell the Court "thanks for your advice - now eff off and leave the power of the purse to us, where it belongs").
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Wait - is there a bill to sign? Last I heard, the Chamber GOP and Conservative GOP can't agree on which taxes to increase, and nobody (at least in leadership) has the guts to bring spending cuts to the floor for a vote.
I wonder if there is any precedent for this sort of budget impasse when one party so completely dominates the Legislature and Executive? It would actually be pretty amusing but for, you know, the liklihood of higher taxes.
It seems like tax hikes are inevitable. The only debate is over who gets to take on the burden. Poor people seemed like the likely candidate, but they couldn't pass the sin tax, so who really knows where the revenue will come from.
I like the regressive nature of a sales tax, but it still means I end up paying more in taxes, too. So that's out. About the only tax I support is booze and cigarettes, but that's not going to raise $400 million. We should just cut our spending by 6% across the board. Problem solved. (Well, at least until the Supreme Court says we can't cut school spending, at which point it's finally time for the legislature to tell the Court "thanks for your advice - now eff off and leave the power of the purse to us, where it belongs").
They should drop the sales tax to 0 on food and jack it up on everything else. Then I could just not buy anything in Kansas and get a huge tax break. :billdance:
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Hey, so now that ks sold 1 billion in bonds, to get the teachers pension funding ratio up to 66% from 60% it's totally viable now long term, right?
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Hey, so now that ks sold 1 billion in bonds, to get the teachers pension funding ratio up to 66% from 60% it's totally viable now long term, right?
Does that make it more or less solvent than Social Security of Medicaid? I'm guessing "more." At least until we cut the pensions. We should cut those. Then we can spend more education dollars on education, amiright?
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We should legalize sports gambling. Sam wants to bring jobs, that would make crap explode. Fast.
Also, legalize weed and prostitution and become the largest tourist state in the union.
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We should legalize sports gambling. Sam wants to bring jobs, that would make crap explode. Fast.
Also, legalize weed and prostitution and become the largest tourist state in the union.
blow, too
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Sure. Why not. Legalize, regulate, tax, profit.
Seems like a no brainer.
Cons need to get out of the way and let this state prosper.
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They love job killing regulations more than having a rich ass state
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Just think of all of the Colorado residents that would come and support our businesses if we had legalized blow.
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swing and another miss on those June tax revenues. Missing the mark by 20 million. Good thing Brownback's responsible, run it like a household philosophy, asked for a 840 home equity loan.
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Yep, and the courts mushed his fat face and now his budget woes just grew by approx $50mil per yr.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
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Just think of all of the Colorado residents that would come and support our businesses if we had legalized blow.
Just think of all the work I'd get done!
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did we ever figure out what was wrong with the school funding formula?
like...not the result being less (or more) than it ought be. but the formula itself? whats wrong (or correct) about it?
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did we ever figure out what was wrong with the school funding formula?
like...not the result being less (or more) than it ought be. but the formula itself? whats wrong (or correct) about it?
Same as the last couple years. The court didn't think it was an adequate amt per kid. this ruling also said that it was unconstitutional to change the funding from $/kid to block grants. They said basing it on something other than $/kid would mean the state wouldn't be providing an equal ed to all students.
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This is a recommendation of the ks education efficiency study that was commissioned by the ks legislature and contracted to an outside consultant.
There were actually some good recommendos, but this. My God, this.
https://twitter.com/BryanLowry3/status/686957002270978052
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http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article54370945.html
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http://kac.org/media/media/release-brownback-budget-recommends-dismantling-of-kansas-early-childhood-legacy/
Oh man Brownback to dismantle early childhood programs.
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All those kids are just sucking the teet dry
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article54370945.html
Is that what is normally considered a fact check? Not defending Sam, but "true, but let's try to kind of say he is full of crap" is not "true" or "false" which I think of when I think of a fact check.
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
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Not really worth it's own thread, so here's good enough.
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/01/20/teacher-sickouts-expected-to-close-many-detroit-schools-wednesday/ (http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/01/20/teacher-sickouts-expected-to-close-many-detroit-schools-wednesday/)
DETROIT (WWJ) – Mass teacher sickouts have prompted nearly all of Detroit Public Schools to close on the day President Barack Obama is set to visit the city.
More than 85 schools across the city are closed Wednesday because of excessive teacher absences — the largest in a string of recent sickouts meant to call attention to high class sizes, dilapidated buildings and other problems in Michigan’s largest school district. [COMPLETE LIST HERE]
DPS officials say they have “no other option but to close schools when teachers do not report for work.” Michelle Zdrodowski, DPS spokesperson, said staff members at the schools which have closed must still report for work Wednesday or take a personal leave day. Otherwise, staff could face disciplinary action as most of the district’s 46,000 students sit at home.
Zdrodowski said the call-offs have left just nine school buildings open across the district.
It's fascinating to me that teachers think this sort of behavior is ok - that you can just stage a walk out, shut down your business, and not face any repercussions.
I've never worked in a job where I would ever think I could do this without getting fired.
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Unionize, KSU. The world will be your oyster.
It should be noted that not all states have unionized public employees.
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Maybe if ksuw unionizes he would get some decent health insurance that he's always bitching about
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Maybe if ksuw unionizes he would get some decent health insurance that he's always bitching about
Did I bitch about my insurance? My insurance is great. Actually, my wife and separately insure so we get HSA contributions from both our employers. It's a pretty sweet deal.
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I'm glad you got it worked out,I know obamacare had really knocked you for a loop for a bit.
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Oh man the KS Supreme Court just mushed block grants.
edit:
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article59752316.html
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This sounds like something our Supreme Court should be weighing in on. The Kansas Budget Crisis - brought to you by a bunch of crazy libs on the Supreme Court, who don't have the power to craft a budget but evidently do have the power to order the legislature to spend more money.
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This sounds like something our Supreme Court should be weighing in on. The Kansas Budget Crisis - brought to you by a bunch of crazy libs on the Supreme Court, who don't have the power to craft a budget but evidently do have the power to order the legislature to spend more money.
You would think that the legislature would have learned by now that they are going to lose this lawsuit every time they cut school funding. They need to amend the constitution if they are going to cut school funding.
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This sounds like something our Supreme Court should be weighing in on. The Kansas Budget Crisis - brought to you by a bunch of crazy libs on the Supreme Court, who don't have the power to craft a budget but evidently do have the power to order the legislature to spend more money.
You would think that the legislature would have learned by now that they are going to lose this lawsuit every time they cut school funding. They need to amend the constitution if they are going to cut school funding.
Or....and this is just a crazy idea I'm throwing out here....they could adequately fund schools.... :Wha:
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This sounds like something our Supreme Court should be weighing in on. The Kansas Budget Crisis - brought to you by a bunch of crazy libs on the Supreme Court, who don't have the power to craft a budget but evidently do have the power to order the legislature to spend more money.
You would think that the legislature would have learned by now that they are going to lose this lawsuit every time they cut school funding. They need to amend the constitution if they are going to cut school funding.
Or....and this is just a crazy idea I'm throwing out here....they could adequately fund schools.... :Wha:
They don't want to do that, though. They need to get rid of their legal requirements to get what they want.
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Ghouls
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Seems to me if the state would just offer really crappy education then we'd produce kids who are only educated enough to take over their parents' farming practices instead of going out on their own. They'd make more money and pay more taxes that way. Shrewd move, IMO.
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The article I read today on the decision noted that the state is required to adequately fund schools in such a way that kids get a constitutionally adequate education. Surely, the next step is refefining what level of education is considered "constitutionally adequate". I mean, there is no way that Brownback loses and tosses money back, and no way he raises taxes either. They are going to let it be ok for kids to simply be under educated. This has benefit down the road. Under educated kids don't go to college, so those whiny rough ridin' secondary education budget ppl will find themselves needing less money due to less participation.
A true KS Win/Win.
Also, manufacturing will rush to KS due to the corporate tax change and what will soon be a bunch of cheap labor who have no other options in life than your factory job at min wage.
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This sounds like something our Supreme Court should be weighing in on. The Kansas Budget Crisis - brought to you by a bunch of crazy libs on the Supreme Court, who don't have the power to craft a budget but evidently do have the power to order the legislature to spend more money.
You would think that the legislature would have learned by now that they are going to lose this lawsuit every time they cut school funding. They need to amend the constitution if they are going to cut school funding.
Or....and this is just a crazy idea I'm throwing out here....they could adequately fund schools.... :Wha:
Please don't start with the "adequate funding" BS. It's ridiculous how much we already spend per pupil, and how inefficiently that money is spent on unnecessary administration because we refuse to consolidate. Just. Stop.
Another alternative would be for the legislature to tell the SC "thanks for your advice, but we make the budget." There is literally nothing the SC can do if the legislature tells them to stuff it. We have co-equal branches of government and the budget has always been within the power of the legislature.
Here is per public spending in Kansas:
http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/SpendingPerPupil (http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/SpendingPerPupil)
And that spending doesn't even include local bond revenue.
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The do more with less crowd needs to step forward with a plan and lead. If it's so easy, then propose a plan. Just taking away money and not providing structure is a horrible idea.
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The do more with less crowd needs to step forward with a plan and lead. If it's so easy, then propose a plan. Just taking away money and not providing structure is a horrible idea.
cut athletics :dunno:
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Yeah, we discussed that earlier ITT. I would be fine with that. Munis provide that service for little league and it works. Why not for the older kids too. Isn't that how Germany is set up. No school sports, all club ball?
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The do more with less crowd needs to step forward with a plan and lead. If it's so easy, then propose a plan. Just taking away money and not providing structure is a horrible idea.
First, the "taking money away from schools" BS. Under the new grant program, some school districts got a bit more, some got a bit less, but overall spending per pupil continues to increase.
Second, a number of plans have been proposed. See, e.g., http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article58283968.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article58283968.html). Naturally, any such efforts are vigorously opposed.
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The do more with less crowd needs to step forward with a plan and lead. If it's so easy, then propose a plan. Just taking away money and not providing structure is a horrible idea.
First, the "taking money away from schools" BS. Under the new grant program, some school districts got a bit more, some got a bit less, but overall spending per pupil continues to increase.
Second, a number of plans have been proposed. See, e.g., http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article58283968.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article58283968.html). Naturally, any such efforts are vigorously opposed.
Man, governing with a Republican governor, Senate and House is tough.
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:lol:
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It's like that time fsd said the kansas democrats have a huge amount of power in the state
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The do more with less crowd needs to step forward with a plan and lead. If it's so easy, then propose a plan. Just taking away money and not providing structure is a horrible idea.
First, the "taking money away from schools" BS. Under the new grant program, some school districts got a bit more, some got a bit less, but overall spending per pupil continues to increase.
Second, a number of plans have been proposed. See, e.g., http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article58283968.html (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article58283968.html). Naturally, any such efforts are vigorously opposed.
Man, governing with a Republican governor, Senate and House is tough.
Oh I completely agree. It's tough for the legislature and governor to whine about the liberals on the Supreme Court when they refuse to (a) consolidate, or (b) tell the court to eff off. Bad actors all around.
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
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Yeah, we discussed that earlier ITT. I would be fine with that. Munis provide that service for little league and it works. Why not for the older kids too. Isn't that how Germany is set up. No school sports, all club ball?
Of if school districts want sports programs beyond basic physical education classes, maybe require that the communities issue bonds to pay for them? The farmers aren't going to like that one bit.
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School athletics provide a tremendous positive for society and education
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
Sounds the republicans should consolidate the school districts or is the stupid liberal supreme court stopping that too.
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School athletics provide a tremendous positive for society and education
I agree with you, up to a point. But you don't have to spend much money at all to field, say, a cross country or soccer team. The facilities and equipment for some sports are quite expensive. I would significantly cut funding and let the communities decide to issue bonds if they really want that football team.
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
What would they spend after consolidation?
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School athletics provide a tremendous positive for society and education
Would those same positives not be available if you played through your city rather than your school?
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
They don't have very many pupils.
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
They don't have very many pupils.
Sounds like we just want to shift the cost to the parents(driving the kids to school = time and money cost). Forcing them to drive all the way across the county to go to the single school district after the consolidation. After the districts get cut down to a single one, you know the next step is greatly slashing the number of schools etc.
Kind of a bummer.
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
They don't have very many pupils.
Sounds like we just want to shift the cost to the parents(driving the kids to school = time and money cost). Forcing them to drive all the way across the county to go to the single school district after the consolidation. After the districts get cut down to a single one, you know the next step is greatly slashing the number of schools etc.
Kind of a bummer.
Mathematically I think there would be very few situations a student would have to travel even close to "all the way across the county." That's not a reason to have 3 or 4 districts in sparsely populated counties.
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Put the school on the far side of the county, if it makes sense, then let the free market figure the transportation out. Quit waiting for the govt to solve all your problems.
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People in western Kansas don't need schools, it's 98% agrarian and the 2% that aren't end up as contrarians in San Francisco
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Kansas counties are tiny.
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How does KS compare to even more rural western states? WY, MT, ID, UT?
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How does KS compare to even more rural western states? WY, MT, ID, UT?
Well, we are better than those loser states for one thing.
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MT is a lot better than KS.
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People in western Kansas don't need schools, it's 98% agrarian and the 2% that aren't end up as contrarians in San Francisco
Most western Kansas counties outside of the Wichita area only have one or 2 cities, anyway. It's southeast Kansas that would get hit the hardest by this.
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I've only read news snippets, but it sounds like the court didn't order more spending just that the current funding be spent more equitably. That would be a huge victory for the brownbackites, if so.
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I've only read news snippets, but it sounds like the court didn't order more spending just that the current funding be spent more equitably. That would be a huge victory for the brownbackites, if so.
Yeah. I'm sure they will rule against the state on overall spending pretty soon, though.
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How is that not the same case?
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How is that not the same case?
:dunno:
The Supreme Court had said it would schedule arguments on whether school funding is adequate for spring 2016.
http://www.wibw.com/content/news/KS-Supreme-Courts-1st-school-funding-ruling-comes-Thursday-368404261.html
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I've only read news snippets, but it sounds like the court didn't order more spending just that the current funding be spent more equitably. That would be a huge victory for the brownbackites, if so.
Yeah. I'm sure they will rule against the state on overall spending pretty soon, though.
Correct.
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The legislature just went full KSUW......never go full KSUW.
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2015_16/measures/sb439/
g)?attempting to subvert fundamental laws and introduce arbitrary
power;
(h)?attempting to usurp the power of the legislative or executive
branch of government
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I think that was introduced the morning of the court decision.
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:facepalm:
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Not that I agree with everything that goes on in Kansas, but "fully funding schools" in ProgLib world is an unquantifiable number.
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Well there is a formula that every one agreed on before the tea party
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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How is that not the same case?
:dunno:
The Supreme Court had said it would schedule arguments on whether school funding is adequate for spring 2016.
http://www.wibw.com/content/news/KS-Supreme-Courts-1st-school-funding-ruling-comes-Thursday-368404261.html
Man, our S. Ct. has a perverted dedication to judicial inefficiency. The school decisions are the only ones that come out in less than 3 years, and they manage to bifurcate those before punting on remand.
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Good to see Kansans see through the lies. It's a shame more of them didn't vote this loser out of office.
http://cjonline.com/news/state/2016-02-29/kansas-poll-shows-deep-disapproval-us-congress-brownback#gsc.tab=0
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
Because they get the same amount of $$/pupil as higher cost areas whether they need it or not and continue to suck tax revenues from suburban areas to supplement low tax rates for rural communities.
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The equality spending for schools is complete crap until there is equality in taxation used to fund school spending.
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
Because they get the same amount of $$/pupil as higher cost areas whether they need it or not and continue to suck tax revenues from suburban areas to supplement low tax rates for rural communities.
Or to supplement things like busing or pay a higher margin for items because they are in the middle of no where. But we need to axe those 3 of 4 of those one office secretaries because their 40k is really sucking the budget dry!
http://cjonline.com/news/2015-03-23/rural-majority-school-consolidation-complex-controversial
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Did you guys know that Rice County, Kansas, population 10,000 and change (that's total population) has 4 school districts? I just picked a random western county off the list. Those 4 counties spend an average $15,738 per pupil. The Kansas average is $13,124.
But yeah, the problem is we're just not "adequately funding" our schools...
How are they spending that much if (I assume) the cost of living is so low out there?
Because they get the same amount of $$/pupil as higher cost areas whether they need it or not and continue to suck tax revenues from suburban areas to supplement low tax rates for rural communities.
Or to supplement things like busing or pay a higher margin for items because they are in the middle of no where. But we need to axe those 3 of 4 of those one office secretaries because their 40k is really sucking the budget dry!
http://cjonline.com/news/2015-03-23/rural-majority-school-consolidation-complex-controversial
So if the rural school district has those issues that cost more than the basic cost of education, tax the constituents of that district instead of looking to equalization payments from areas that pay taxes based upon the value of their properties/income.
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Well, this has been a disaster
http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article64000247.html
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The only good thing anyone can point to is lower income taxes. We are driving ppl away in droves, losing jobs, losing teachers, and my propt taxes are going up. I dislike this.
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Nothing to see
Obama's fault
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Kcmo has such a prime oppy here. Get schools fixed and they will rob the crap out of ks.
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sarpy county looks better and better with each passing day.
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kansasdegreestats.org
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http://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160418 (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160418)
In Kansas, which is our best guess for the state you’re currently in, the average district spends $11,452 per student, similar to the nationwide average
They have a pretty cool map showing the areas of KS and the US and how they spend comparably. Pockets of western KS are spending their asses off. Meanwhile most of the pop center in NE KS is under avg. Some areas are significant.
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http://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160418 (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160418)
In Kansas, which is our best guess for the state you’re currently in, the average district spends $11,452 per student, similar to the nationwide average
They have a pretty cool map showing the areas of KS and the US and how they spend comparably. Pockets of western KS are spending their asses off. Meanwhile most of the pop center in NE KS is under avg. Some areas are significant.
The nationwide trend for the most part seems to be that education costs more in rural areas.
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http://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160418 (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160418)
In Kansas, which is our best guess for the state you’re currently in, the average district spends $11,452 per student, similar to the nationwide average
They have a pretty cool map showing the areas of KS and the US and how they spend comparably. Pockets of western KS are spending their asses off. Meanwhile most of the pop center in NE KS is under avg. Some areas are significant.
Never would have pegged npr as a Brownback apologist for bankrupting the public school system. I wonder if the numbers are adjusted for cost of living?
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http://www.kmbz.com/Another-KS-school-district-is-looking-to-cut-back-/22686842 (http://www.kmbz.com/Another-KS-school-district-is-looking-to-cut-back-/22686842)
Another KS school district is looking to cut back on school days
KANSAS CITY, Kan. - There are now 41 schools in Kansas operating on a 4-day school week. The latest is the Caney school district in the southeast part of the state, where there are 16 schools operating on a 4-day week. There are 24 schools in the western half, and 1 in the northeast. It's just one way some schools are hoping to cut their expenses.
In Coffey County, LeRoy Gridley school superintendent Russ Mildward says they've had a 4-day school week since 2007. He says it works for them. "We save approximately about $75,000 a year, which has allowed us to maintain curriculum and instructional needs," Mildward tells KMBZ.
Two metro-area schools, Bonner Springs and Spring Hill, both have around 2,000 kids each in four schools. Superintendent Dan Brungardt says cutting back on the number of days in Bonner Springs is not an option.
"I think research shows the more days you spend with your instructor, the greater the learning," says Brungardt. Brungardt says altering the days would also have a tremendous impact on parents whose children would either need day care or would be home alone every Friday.
Brungardt admits money is tight, especially since the district continues to grow. "Our expenses continue to grow, and that's where our issue is. More comp, more teachers salaries, more everything. And we're trying to pull it out of the same money as two years ago."
Wichita, the state's largest school district with over 51,000 students, is tossing around the possibility of a 4-day schedule. There are no metro schools indicating they will follow suit.
Quite a few schools cutting days in class by 20%. Way to go KS voters!
Cheap labor is on it's way. Sam's plan of having large manufacturing biz head to KS is only about 10-12 yrs away.
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https://news.wgbh.org/2016/04/26/innovation/how-massachusetts-became-best-state-education
Imagine this: Not that long ago, in the 1970s and ‘80s, Massachusetts’ public schools were considered mediocre by many standards. Today, the state’s school system ranks among the best in the world.
What happened?
Magic.
So said Republican Governor William Weld, in 1993, after he signed a landmark effort to overhaul how the state pays for its schools.
“Of all the gifts within our purview, a good education in a safe environment is the magic wand that brings opportunity,” Weld said. “It’s up to us to make sure that wand is waved over every cradle.”
To do that, Massachusetts poured state money into districts that educated lots of low-income kids, many of which also struggled to raise funds through local property taxes. This windfall allowed poorer districts to hire and keep good teachers, give them better training and improve curriculum in the classroom.
For 36 years, Karen English has been teaching in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. (Kirk Carapezza/WGBH)
“I really think that the funding was like winning the World Series,” says Karen English, a teacher of 36 years in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. “Everybody embraced [the extra funding], and just to have the curriculum and the books and the space made you wanna be here.”
For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year. Former Revere superintendent Paul Dakin says those steady funding increases didn’t just support teachers but also new classes and standards.
“There wasn’t a calculus course the year I came here,” Dakin says. “So we redid the graduation requirements and, over the years, moved to the point where honors programs and calculus courses and A.P. courses were and are still plentiful.”
“We noticed the difference right away,” says Revere’s current superintendent Dianne Kelly. Back in 1993, Kelly was teaching high school algebra.
“We adopted a whole new textbook series in the math department,” Kelly recalls. “The first year I was here, the textbooks I was using with my students dated – no exaggeration – back to the ‘50s and ‘60s.”
Revere schools also used the money to hire reading coaches and a technology team. Some schools even lengthened the school day.
And with these changes, student test scores and graduation rates slowly improved. Today, the district says nearly 90 percent of its high school graduates go on to some form of post-secondary education -- up from 70 percent before Weld’s magic wand moment.
“When you look at Massachusetts’ overall performance nationally, we have gone from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack,” says Paul Reville, a former state education secretary who now teaches at Harvard’s Graduate School of Education.
Reville, though, says it’s important to remember that while education may be a magic wand, money isn’t.
“For every dollar you add, you’re not necessarily going to see an increase in improved output,” Reville insists. “It depends how you spend the money. As we look around the Commonwealth, some places have spent money wisely, and other people have wasted the opportunity.”
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Think about how much of that is wasted though
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Any school board that cuts 20% of its school days over 3% less funding shold be tarred and feathered.
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https://news.wgbh.org/2016/04/26/innovation/how-massachusetts-became-best-state-education
Imagine this: Not that long ago, in the 1970s and ‘80s, Massachusetts’ public schools were considered mediocre by many standards. Today, the state’s school system ranks among the best in the world.
What happened?
Magic.
So said Republican Governor William Weld, in 1993, after he signed a landmark effort to overhaul how the state pays for its schools.
“Of all the gifts within our purview, a good education in a safe environment is the magic wand that brings opportunity,” Weld said. “It’s up to us to make sure that wand is waved over every cradle.”
To do that, Massachusetts poured state money into districts that educated lots of low-income kids, many of which also struggled to raise funds through local property taxes. This windfall allowed poorer districts to hire and keep good teachers, give them better training and improve curriculum in the classroom.
For 36 years, Karen English has been teaching in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. (Kirk Carapezza/WGBH)
“I really think that the funding was like winning the World Series,” says Karen English, a teacher of 36 years in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. “Everybody embraced [the extra funding], and just to have the curriculum and the books and the space made you wanna be here.”
For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year. Former Revere superintendent Paul Dakin says those steady funding increases didn’t just support teachers but also new classes and standards.
“There wasn’t a calculus course the year I came here,” Dakin says. “So we redid the graduation requirements and, over the years, moved to the point where honors programs and calculus courses and A.P. courses were and are still plentiful.”
“We noticed the difference right away,” says Revere’s current superintendent Dianne Kelly. Back in 1993, Kelly was teaching high school algebra.
“We adopted a whole new textbook series in the math department,” Kelly recalls. “The first year I was here, the textbooks I was using with my students dated – no exaggeration – back to the ‘50s and ‘60s.”
Revere schools also used the money to hire reading coaches and a technology team. Some schools even lengthened the school day.
And with these changes, student test scores and graduation rates slowly improved. Today, the district says nearly 90 percent of its high school graduates go on to some form of post-secondary education -- up from 70 percent before Weld’s magic wand moment.
“When you look at Massachusetts’ overall performance nationally, we have gone from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack,” says Paul Reville, a former state education secretary who now teaches at Harvard’s Graduate School of Education.
Reville, though, says it’s important to remember that while education may be a magic wand, money isn’t.
“For every dollar you add, you’re not necessarily going to see an increase in improved output,” Reville insists. “It depends how you spend the money. As we look around the Commonwealth, some places have spent money wisely, and other people have wasted the opportunity.”
How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
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https://news.wgbh.org/2016/04/26/innovation/how-massachusetts-became-best-state-education
Imagine this: Not that long ago, in the 1970s and ‘80s, Massachusetts’ public schools were considered mediocre by many standards. Today, the state’s school system ranks among the best in the world.
What happened?
Magic.
So said Republican Governor William Weld, in 1993, after he signed a landmark effort to overhaul how the state pays for its schools.
“Of all the gifts within our purview, a good education in a safe environment is the magic wand that brings opportunity,” Weld said. “It’s up to us to make sure that wand is waved over every cradle.”
To do that, Massachusetts poured state money into districts that educated lots of low-income kids, many of which also struggled to raise funds through local property taxes. This windfall allowed poorer districts to hire and keep good teachers, give them better training and improve curriculum in the classroom.
For 36 years, Karen English has been teaching in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. (Kirk Carapezza/WGBH)
“I really think that the funding was like winning the World Series,” says Karen English, a teacher of 36 years in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. “Everybody embraced [the extra funding], and just to have the curriculum and the books and the space made you wanna be here.”
For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year. Former Revere superintendent Paul Dakin says those steady funding increases didn’t just support teachers but also new classes and standards.
“There wasn’t a calculus course the year I came here,” Dakin says. “So we redid the graduation requirements and, over the years, moved to the point where honors programs and calculus courses and A.P. courses were and are still plentiful.”
“We noticed the difference right away,” says Revere’s current superintendent Dianne Kelly. Back in 1993, Kelly was teaching high school algebra.
“We adopted a whole new textbook series in the math department,” Kelly recalls. “The first year I was here, the textbooks I was using with my students dated – no exaggeration – back to the ‘50s and ‘60s.”
Revere schools also used the money to hire reading coaches and a technology team. Some schools even lengthened the school day.
And with these changes, student test scores and graduation rates slowly improved. Today, the district says nearly 90 percent of its high school graduates go on to some form of post-secondary education -- up from 70 percent before Weld’s magic wand moment.
“When you look at Massachusetts’ overall performance nationally, we have gone from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack,” says Paul Reville, a former state education secretary who now teaches at Harvard’s Graduate School of Education.
Reville, though, says it’s important to remember that while education may be a magic wand, money isn’t.
“For every dollar you add, you’re not necessarily going to see an increase in improved output,” Reville insists. “It depends how you spend the money. As we look around the Commonwealth, some places have spent money wisely, and other people have wasted the opportunity.”
How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
Yep, it's all admin. As you tried before, we need to axe that old bat who has been running the district phone desk for 43 years and brings in apple pie on fridays. Her $34k a year job is really the problem in rural districts.
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https://news.wgbh.org/2016/04/26/innovation/how-massachusetts-became-best-state-education
Imagine this: Not that long ago, in the 1970s and ‘80s, Massachusetts’ public schools were considered mediocre by many standards. Today, the state’s school system ranks among the best in the world.
What happened?
Magic.
So said Republican Governor William Weld, in 1993, after he signed a landmark effort to overhaul how the state pays for its schools.
“Of all the gifts within our purview, a good education in a safe environment is the magic wand that brings opportunity,” Weld said. “It’s up to us to make sure that wand is waved over every cradle.”
To do that, Massachusetts poured state money into districts that educated lots of low-income kids, many of which also struggled to raise funds through local property taxes. This windfall allowed poorer districts to hire and keep good teachers, give them better training and improve curriculum in the classroom.
For 36 years, Karen English has been teaching in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. (Kirk Carapezza/WGBH)
“I really think that the funding was like winning the World Series,” says Karen English, a teacher of 36 years in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. “Everybody embraced [the extra funding], and just to have the curriculum and the books and the space made you wanna be here.”
For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year. Former Revere superintendent Paul Dakin says those steady funding increases didn’t just support teachers but also new classes and standards.
“There wasn’t a calculus course the year I came here,” Dakin says. “So we redid the graduation requirements and, over the years, moved to the point where honors programs and calculus courses and A.P. courses were and are still plentiful.”
“We noticed the difference right away,” says Revere’s current superintendent Dianne Kelly. Back in 1993, Kelly was teaching high school algebra.
“We adopted a whole new textbook series in the math department,” Kelly recalls. “The first year I was here, the textbooks I was using with my students dated – no exaggeration – back to the ‘50s and ‘60s.”
Revere schools also used the money to hire reading coaches and a technology team. Some schools even lengthened the school day.
And with these changes, student test scores and graduation rates slowly improved. Today, the district says nearly 90 percent of its high school graduates go on to some form of post-secondary education -- up from 70 percent before Weld’s magic wand moment.
“When you look at Massachusetts’ overall performance nationally, we have gone from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack,” says Paul Reville, a former state education secretary who now teaches at Harvard’s Graduate School of Education.
Reville, though, says it’s important to remember that while education may be a magic wand, money isn’t.
“For every dollar you add, you’re not necessarily going to see an increase in improved output,” Reville insists. “It depends how you spend the money. As we look around the Commonwealth, some places have spent money wisely, and other people have wasted the opportunity.”
How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
Yep, it's all admin. As you tried before, we need to axe that old bat who has been running the district phone desk for 43 years and brings in apple pie on fridays. Her $34k a year job is really the problem in rural districts.
Clearly he was talking about the rank and file admin personnel, Flying Tap Dancing Spaghetti Monster Whack-A-Doodle. :rolleyes:
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https://news.wgbh.org/2016/04/26/innovation/how-massachusetts-became-best-state-education
Imagine this: Not that long ago, in the 1970s and ‘80s, Massachusetts’ public schools were considered mediocre by many standards. Today, the state’s school system ranks among the best in the world.
What happened?
Magic.
So said Republican Governor William Weld, in 1993, after he signed a landmark effort to overhaul how the state pays for its schools.
“Of all the gifts within our purview, a good education in a safe environment is the magic wand that brings opportunity,” Weld said. “It’s up to us to make sure that wand is waved over every cradle.”
To do that, Massachusetts poured state money into districts that educated lots of low-income kids, many of which also struggled to raise funds through local property taxes. This windfall allowed poorer districts to hire and keep good teachers, give them better training and improve curriculum in the classroom.
For 36 years, Karen English has been teaching in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. (Kirk Carapezza/WGBH)
“I really think that the funding was like winning the World Series,” says Karen English, a teacher of 36 years in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. “Everybody embraced [the extra funding], and just to have the curriculum and the books and the space made you wanna be here.”
For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year. Former Revere superintendent Paul Dakin says those steady funding increases didn’t just support teachers but also new classes and standards.
“There wasn’t a calculus course the year I came here,” Dakin says. “So we redid the graduation requirements and, over the years, moved to the point where honors programs and calculus courses and A.P. courses were and are still plentiful.”
“We noticed the difference right away,” says Revere’s current superintendent Dianne Kelly. Back in 1993, Kelly was teaching high school algebra.
“We adopted a whole new textbook series in the math department,” Kelly recalls. “The first year I was here, the textbooks I was using with my students dated – no exaggeration – back to the ‘50s and ‘60s.”
Revere schools also used the money to hire reading coaches and a technology team. Some schools even lengthened the school day.
And with these changes, student test scores and graduation rates slowly improved. Today, the district says nearly 90 percent of its high school graduates go on to some form of post-secondary education -- up from 70 percent before Weld’s magic wand moment.
“When you look at Massachusetts’ overall performance nationally, we have gone from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack,” says Paul Reville, a former state education secretary who now teaches at Harvard’s Graduate School of Education.
Reville, though, says it’s important to remember that while education may be a magic wand, money isn’t.
“For every dollar you add, you’re not necessarily going to see an increase in improved output,” Reville insists. “It depends how you spend the money. As we look around the Commonwealth, some places have spent money wisely, and other people have wasted the opportunity.”
How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
Yep, it's all admin. As you tried before, we need to axe that old bat who has been running the district phone desk for 43 years and brings in apple pie on fridays. Her $34k a year job is really the problem in rural districts.
Clearly he was talking about the rank and file admin personnel, Flying Tap Dancing Spaghetti Monster Whack-A-Doodle. :rolleyes:
oh you mean the numerous superintendents who have districts so big they can visit schools at either end of it in one day? Yeah eff them too.
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Minimizing the quantity of admin in KS earning very large salaries isn't helping your argument. Blind money doesn't solve anything, and tax payers aren't going to trust a large increase of money if existing money isn't thought of as being spent efficiently.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
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https://news.wgbh.org/2016/04/26/innovation/how-massachusetts-became-best-state-education
Imagine this: Not that long ago, in the 1970s and ‘80s, Massachusetts’ public schools were considered mediocre by many standards. Today, the state’s school system ranks among the best in the world.
What happened?
Magic.
So said Republican Governor William Weld, in 1993, after he signed a landmark effort to overhaul how the state pays for its schools.
“Of all the gifts within our purview, a good education in a safe environment is the magic wand that brings opportunity,” Weld said. “It’s up to us to make sure that wand is waved over every cradle.”
To do that, Massachusetts poured state money into districts that educated lots of low-income kids, many of which also struggled to raise funds through local property taxes. This windfall allowed poorer districts to hire and keep good teachers, give them better training and improve curriculum in the classroom.
For 36 years, Karen English has been teaching in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. (Kirk Carapezza/WGBH)
“I really think that the funding was like winning the World Series,” says Karen English, a teacher of 36 years in Revere, a town just north of Boston where nearly 80 percent of students are low-income. “Everybody embraced [the extra funding], and just to have the curriculum and the books and the space made you wanna be here.”
For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year. Former Revere superintendent Paul Dakin says those steady funding increases didn’t just support teachers but also new classes and standards.
“There wasn’t a calculus course the year I came here,” Dakin says. “So we redid the graduation requirements and, over the years, moved to the point where honors programs and calculus courses and A.P. courses were and are still plentiful.”
“We noticed the difference right away,” says Revere’s current superintendent Dianne Kelly. Back in 1993, Kelly was teaching high school algebra.
“We adopted a whole new textbook series in the math department,” Kelly recalls. “The first year I was here, the textbooks I was using with my students dated – no exaggeration – back to the ‘50s and ‘60s.”
Revere schools also used the money to hire reading coaches and a technology team. Some schools even lengthened the school day.
And with these changes, student test scores and graduation rates slowly improved. Today, the district says nearly 90 percent of its high school graduates go on to some form of post-secondary education -- up from 70 percent before Weld’s magic wand moment.
“When you look at Massachusetts’ overall performance nationally, we have gone from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack,” says Paul Reville, a former state education secretary who now teaches at Harvard’s Graduate School of Education.
Reville, though, says it’s important to remember that while education may be a magic wand, money isn’t.
“For every dollar you add, you’re not necessarily going to see an increase in improved output,” Reville insists. “It depends how you spend the money. As we look around the Commonwealth, some places have spent money wisely, and other people have wasted the opportunity.”
How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
Yep, it's all admin. As you tried before, we need to axe that old bat who has been running the district phone desk for 43 years and brings in apple pie on fridays. Her $34k a year job is really the problem in rural districts.
Clearly he was talking about the rank and file admin personnel, Flying Tap Dancing Spaghetti Monster Whack-A-Doodle. :rolleyes:
oh you mean the numerous superintendents who have districts so big they can visit schools at either end of it in one day? Yeah eff them too.
Yeah, them. :rolleyes
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How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
Yep, it's all admin. As you tried before, we need to axe that old bat who has been running the district phone desk for 43 years and brings in apple pie on fridays. Her $34k a year job is really the problem in rural districts.
Clearly he was talking about the rank and file admin personnel, Flying Tap Dancing Spaghetti Monster Whack-A-Doodle. :rolleyes:
oh you mean the numerous superintendents who have districts so big they can visit schools at either end of it in one day? Yeah eff them too.
When the farmer with $300,000 worth of land pays the same in taxes for schools as a homeowner pays for a $300,000 house, the rural districts can have as many old bats and superintendents as they can afford.
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How much of the increased $$ went into the classrooms and how much to administration?
Yep, it's all admin. As you tried before, we need to axe that old bat who has been running the district phone desk for 43 years and brings in apple pie on fridays. Her $34k a year job is really the problem in rural districts.
Clearly he was talking about the rank and file admin personnel, Flying Tap Dancing Spaghetti Monster Whack-A-Doodle. :rolleyes:
oh you mean the numerous superintendents who have districts so big they can visit schools at either end of it in one day? Yeah eff them too.
When the farmer with $300,000 worth of land pays the same in taxes for schools as a homeowner pays for a $300,000 house, the rural districts can have as many old bats and superintendents as they can afford.
I don't think those are the districts he's talking about.
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For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year.
50 million increase in 10 years for one school :rolleyes:
Perhaps we should follow the European model since liberals love Europe so much. Separate the kids immediately in grade 1: Dumb, Average and Smart. The dumb kids get their hands held and forced into votech jobs, the average kids get blacklisted from high end universities and the smart kids take all the standardized tests.
It wouldn't cost much and the schools would look great on paper. Just like Europe.
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For roughly a decade, from 1993 to 2003, Revere’s school budget increased by some $5 million a year.
50 million increase in 10 years for one school :rolleyes:
Perhaps we should follow the European model since liberals love Europe so much. Separate the kids immediately in grade 1: Dumb, Average and Smart. The dumb kids get their hands held and forced into votech jobs, the average kids get blacklisted from high end universities and the smart kids take all the standardized tests.
It wouldn't cost much and the schools would look great on paper. Just like Europe.
you would be in the low-medium classes, fyi
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Anyone arguing that the public school system isn't a bloated bureaucracy is crazy. It costs more money per kid to go to kindergarten than kstate or ku, by a factor of almost 2x.
The left has turned the public school system into their personal treasure trove. It's unconscionable, and they should be punished for what they've done.
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Did the left sneak into KS and do that, under the light of the moon, or something?
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They've been doing it for decades. Do you think a school district commands a larger budget and higher paid staff than a city and county combined is by accident? They're stealing money from the public under the guise of education. Any attempt to rein in cost is met with vitriol and slander. They have to protect the largesse.
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What is the purpose of this intentional theft?
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Intentional theft :lol:
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So it's not intentional?
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What was the point of this intentional murder?
Well, I intentionally wanted that person to be dead.
Intentionally or unintentionally?
Intentionally.
Welp, case closed.
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Ah, so you have no answer for why "the left" is "stealing money". I figured you had some grand daxian scheme where education money was going directly to Hillary Clinton
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What an r-tard
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The power of the left to sneak into each and every red state and completely own the ed system and it's funding is freightening.
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It should cost more to educate a kindergartner than a college student when you look at the resources required for each. I think both cost more than they really need to, though.
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It's not a red state blue state thing you dorks. The cost of college has, what, quadrupled in the last 10-20 years? $14k per kid per year for elementary school? There are a lot of people lining their pockets in the education "industry" (big ed?). It's all at the expense of the public, or this new generation of servants indentured to Sallie Mae.
Surely the Berners recognize it (although they obviously can't ID the actual source of the problem).
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Not red/blue, but is liberal? Hmmm.
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It's not a red state blue state thing you dorks. The cost of college has, what, quadrupled in the last 10-20 years? $14k per kid per year for elementary school? There are a lot of people lining their pockets in the education "industry" (big ed?). It's all at the expense of the public, or this new generation of servants indentured to Sallie Mae.
Surely the Berners recognize it (although they obviously can't ID the actual source of the problem).
Per pupil spending and tuition are really stupid to compare. First off "public" universities in Kansas get a minority of their funding from taxpayers.
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Why is it stupid, and what metric would be better to gauge which is the greater buggerer of public funds (including federal loans and grants)?
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It's not a red state blue state thing you dorks. The cost of college has, what, quadrupled in the last 10-20 years? $14k per kid per year for elementary school? There are a lot of people lining their pockets in the education "industry" (big ed?). It's all at the expense of the public, or this new generation of servants indentured to Sallie Mae.
Surely the Berners recognize it (although they obviously can't ID the actual source of the problem).
:lol: I've heard everything now. Granted, you could argue college related money as "big ed" given how prices keep being jacked up since it's a bubble created by all the "free" money available to the universities through FAFSA, but public elementary through high school as "big ed" is the greatest stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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Public education (k-12) consumes like one half the state budget. It is a trillion dollar industry nationwide. Thinking that's insignificant is far stupidier.
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http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/steve-rose/article87288257.html
great op ed debunking reno type numbers
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Lifetime contract, retire at 55, double dipping education administrators never think there's enough money. Yet in many school systems senior admins always manage to find money for substantial pay raises for themselves via rubber stamp boards, and also manage to create cushy positions for their friends.
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That article does nothing but reinforce "reno-type" numbers. That guy is a moron.
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Tomorrow is primary day in KS. If they're in, vote them out. New blood is needed.
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Kansas Labor Department says state lost 5,600 jobs in July
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/20/kansas-labor-department-says-state-lost-5600-jobs-/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/20/kansas-labor-department-says-state-lost-5600-jobs-/)
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http://www.shankerinstitute.org/resource/publicschoolinginefficiency
Boom roasted
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I have no idea if this true:
Want to understand how corrupt Kansas is? Here we have an attorney, Alan Rupe, earning millions of dollars suing the state "on behalf of the children" for more money for schools. The millions of dollars he is paid come from taxpayers, meaning that Kansas taxpayers end up paying to sue themselves so, in the end, they are forced to pay more in taxes. Those higher taxes then go to the government school cartel, which then spends millions more to hire Mr. Rupe and others like him to keep filing lawsuits so they receive even more tax money. After all, how else will some local Kansas public school superintendents continue to earn more than the President of the United States?
What a great system, right?
But wait, it gets better.
So just who is Alan Rupe? Turns out, he's none other than the ex-husband of Carol Rupe who served on the State Board of Education when all of these never-ending lawsuits got started. Back then, the Topeka Capital-Journal caught Ms. Rupe having inappropriate side conversations with her ex-husband about his ongoing lawsuits against the very department she helped oversee (which, remember, is funded by the taxpayers of this state). Though Ms. Rupe, as an elected member of the State Board of Education, owed it to the taxpayers to defend their right to decide, through their elected officials, how much money amounts to providing a "suitable" education, The Cap-Journal reported, "Republican Carol Rupe, of Wichita, said she talked to [Mr.] Rupe. After all, she said, he is her ex-husband and she was sympathetic toward his cause."
(http://cjonline.com/stories/090606/leg_rupe.shtml#.WV0669ZtmM8)
And just who, in the above article, is that "tsk-tsk"ing over in the corner about the inappropriate conversation between the former Mr. and Mrs. Rupe?
That would be Dan Biles, then the Attorney for the State Board of Education, who, like Ms. Rupe, was SUPPOSED to be defending the taxpayers against lawsuits like Mr. Rupe's. As it turns out, though, he too was secretly pulling for Mr. Rupe and just months after this article ran, Mr. Biles was rewarded by insane left-wing Democrat Governor Kathleen Sebelius with an appointment to the Kansas Supreme Court....
...yes, THAT Supreme Court -- the one that is now putting loaded pistols to the heads of the Legislative and Executive branches (figuratively speaking, of course) and ordering them to spend billions more on public schools. After all, nothing says "We Supreme Court justices care about providing a suitable education to our children" like threatening to shutter schools.
In Hamlet, Shakespeare famously penned, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." He obviously hadn't yet become acquainted with the State of Kansas.
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Probably should just fund the schools properly from the get go.
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Libtard playbook p.4:
Are schools properly funded?
1) Is a republican governor? If yes: No!!!!!! Commence rioting. If no: yes, funding is great.
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Libtard playbook p.4:
Are schools properly funded?
1) Is a republican governor? If yes: No!!!!!! Commence rioting. If no: yes, funding is great.
The answer has been no for more than a decade now.
http://cjonline.com/stories/120203/bre_schools.shtml#.WWKdBLFOmhA
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https://twitter.com/bryanlowry3/status/984956047810023424?s=21
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104?s=20
Magas are now complaining to schools about ANYTHING that they don't like and demanding their kids be given alternate assignments/materials.
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104?s=20
Magas are now complaining to schools about ANYTHING that they don't like and demanding their kids be given alternate assignments/materials.
it's driven by one of those sean davis or matt walsh turds
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
Yes, pretty sure both Walsh and Davis home school their kids but are just itching for a culture war
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Huge lib neighbor always coming unglued about the 'pubs hauls her kid off to private school every day in her giant ass SUV (no recycle bin either . . . SMDH)
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
Yes, pretty sure both Walsh and Davis home school their kids but are just itching for a culture war
https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1441503734572277760
Not only does he home school his kids, but he moved to Loudoun County just so he could rant at their school board meetings. The rule change came after he pretended to be a resident of the area and spoke at a school board meeting.
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Imagine having your head so far up your ass that you are proud enough of being a dumbass to publicize it with a tweet like that.
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
So is your position that if a parent doesn't like what is being taught in a government school or how a government school is being run, they should keep quiet and not try to change what is being taught? They should just homeschool or send their child to a private school?
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
So is your position that if a parent doesn't like what is being taught in a government school or how a government school is being run, they should keep quiet and not try to change what is being taught? They should just homeschool or send their child to a private school?
Is your position that people who are trained to set a curriculum, supervised by other people with similar training, and evaluated based on student performance on standardized tests should throw said curriculum in the garbage and let some angry assholes rewrite it because they saw something about critical race theory on Fox News?
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
So is your position that if a parent doesn't like what is being taught in a government school or how a government school is being run, they should keep quiet and not try to change what is being taught? They should just homeschool or send their child to a private school?
Is your position that people who are trained to set a curriculum, supervised by other people with similar training, and evaluated based on student performance on standardized tests should throw said curriculum in the garbage and let some angry assholes rewrite it because they saw something about critical race theory on Fox News?
No, it's not. I couldn't imagine sending my kids to a government school, and do not do so, because I do not agree with what is being taught in government schools. I don't think anybody should be complaining about what is being taught in government schools. If you don't like it, then leave. But for me, that applies to ALL parents over ALL issues with what is being taught in government schools.
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What being taught in "government" schools do you disagree with?
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https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1445502369593135104
I thought this was what homeschooling was for.
So is your position that if a parent doesn't like what is being taught in a government school or how a government school is being run, they should keep quiet and not try to change what is being taught? They should just homeschool or send their child to a private school?
Is your position that people who are trained to set a curriculum, supervised by other people with similar training, and evaluated based on student performance on standardized tests should throw said curriculum in the garbage and let some angry assholes rewrite it because they saw something about critical race theory on Fox News?
No, it's not. I couldn't imagine sending my kids to a government school, and do not do so, because I do not agree with what is being taught in government schools. I don't think anybody should be complaining about what is being taught in government schools. If you don't like it, then leave. But for me, that applies to ALL parents over ALL issues with what is being taught in government schools.
That's kind of my point, if you don't like it then homeschool or go private.
These clowns won't take their kids out but are demanding that the schools/teacher bend over backwards for them.
Anecdote, friend's student's chose ANY book they liked across any genre. Kid went out of town for a week. Kid comes back and parent didn't approve of the book the kid checked out, kid did not do assignment per parent directive.
Parent want's reading lists from teacher/librarian that they ok ahead of time for their kid to read so this doesn't happen again.
I think that's bush league of the parent.
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"government school" lol
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The government school is indoctrinating kids by letting them choose what they want to read. We need to stop the indoctrination by forcing teachers to provide us a list of books that align with our partisan world view before letting kids read them.
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What being taught in "government" schools do you disagree with?
A lot.
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Like what?
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This conversation is infuriating.
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“government school” lmao
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Like what?
I'm not going to give you a list. I have no desire to debate/argue about those things. I'm happy to agree that nobody should ever complain about what goes on in government schools, and if you don't like what is going on, then you should just leave.
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What being taught in "government" schools do you disagree with?
you know
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Ok, I'm curious because I honestly can't think of anything taught in government schools that is objectionable. I'm also not very up to date on the subject because I don't have school age children.
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Ok, I'm curious because I honestly can't think of anything taught in government schools that is objectionable. I'm also not very up to date on the subject because I don't have school age children.
I'm pretty confident that you would not find anything taught in government schools objectionable.
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Ok, I'm curious because I honestly can't think of anything taught in government schools that is objectionable. I'm also not very up to date on the subject because I don't have school age children.
I have two (2) that go to government school. AMA (about Kindergarten and 3rd grade anyway).
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Fact 1:
they are pussyfying our youth.
Evidence:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211006/8f70999ae74cf7887ca7db826ad4bbc2.jpg)
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Fact 2:
They are physically damaging our youth
Evidence:
I had to pick up my son from school and take him to the MD the other day with a concussion he got from blasting into a brick wall playing “spider ball” which he explains to me is “like dodgeball but with no teams”. As a result he missed one (1) week of baseball and flag football and he was super pissed.
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Fact 3:
I don’t know what government school 3rd grade music curriculum is like but my kid HATES ITS GUTS!!!
Evidence:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211006/6bb24d36594b1b3c270c312b5d551375.jpg)
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I tell you one thing about govt school. Common core math can suck a fat one
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Does government school make your kids stand for the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance, steve dave?
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Does government school make your kids stand for the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance, steve dave?
I don’t think so, I’ll ask.
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I just asked my 5th grader and they do say the Pledge of Allegiance every day in his class.
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I just asked my 5th grader and they do say the Pledge of Allegiance every day in his class.
OK, I find this objectionable. Justwin is this what you disagree with?
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I tell you one thing about govt school. Common core math can suck a fat one
I used to hear about this all the time but now that my kids are in government high school we don't really hear much about this any more
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Also I thought common core math was cool as crap. Very cool way to learn imo
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I tell you one thing about govt school. Common core math can suck a fat one
I used to hear about this all the time but now that my kids are in government high school we don't really hear much about this any more
Don't they switch to real math at some point before high school?
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my kids confirmed they do the pledge. Right after morning announcements and the birthday song. Kinda lmao that we make kids do that still.
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Ok, I'm curious because I honestly can't think of anything taught in government schools that is objectionable. I'm also not very up to date on the subject because I don't have school age children.
I'm pretty confident that you would not find anything taught in government schools objectionable.
Do they make your kids stand for the pledge at their anti-government school?
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I think some people do not want their kids to be taught concepts they personally find to be confusing and have no meaning to them. Like per capita.
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Justwin is doing it correctly. If you rough riding hate the curriculum of government school then don’t put your kids there.
I have my suspicions in joco that most of the screeching comes from the Nazarene’s and the Mormons who won’t build their own private schools
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segregating my child from their peers into a closed group of my selected peers will solve this!
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I think as a society mostly we would be better off if parents took more of an interest in their children’s education, but I don’t think that universally applies.
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Ok, I'm curious because I honestly can't think of anything taught in government schools that is objectionable. I'm also not very up to date on the subject because I don't have school age children.
I'm pretty confident that you would not find anything taught in government schools objectionable.
Do they make your kids stand for the pledge at their anti-government school?
No, we homeschool and do not say the pledge of allegiance. We do say a prayer sometimes.
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I just asked my 5th grader and they do say the Pledge of Allegiance every day in his class.
OK, I find this objectionable. Justwin is this what you disagree with?
It's not anything I really thought about, but I don't think a kid should be forced to do it.
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I just asked my 5th grader and they do say the Pledge of Allegiance every day in his class.
My dickhead maga governor mandated this, in 20fucking21. These people love talking about liberal indoctrination, they're far too stupid to know what irony is.
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I just asked my 5th grader and they do say the Pledge of Allegiance every day in his class.
My dickhead maga governor mandated this, in 20fucking21. These people love talking about liberal indoctrination, they're far too stupid to know what irony is.
But they can't require kids to participate. That's how you get them.
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Just some concerned parents
https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1445823871500779524
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minorities?
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The list of triggering events for #blueanonGe is approaching exponential growth.
Very sad for people who live at the pinnacle of first world problems.
#frown
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imagine being a someone who makes me uncomfortable who doesn't want their kids being chased by anti vaxxers while going to government school! LMAO
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Relative to non masking issues. Imagine the authoritarian power rush your average #blueanon school board member or senior school administrator must feel when they can quash all discussion about curriculum.
The jackboots get an extra special shine on those day’s.
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Ok, I'm curious because I honestly can't think of anything taught in government schools that is objectionable. I'm also not very up to date on the subject because I don't have school age children.
I'm pretty confident that you would not find anything taught in government schools objectionable.
Do they make your kids stand for the pledge at their anti-government school?
No, we homeschool and do not say the pledge of allegiance. We do say a prayer sometimes.
Government schools in Smallville have Pledge of Allegiance / "give respect to the flag" time in the morning before class. My daughter has a student in her class who is Jehovah's Witness and abstains.
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I remember having JWs in class. No Halloween party for them either as I recall
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Just some concerned parents
https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1445823871500779524
maga thread
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I remember having JWs in class. No Halloween party for them either as I recall
JH have done a lot of good work for civil liberties over the years.
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I knew a home school kid that went to church with some of my friends. Anyway his dad had some small business run out of their basement so there were like 10 computers down there and this kid would invite myself and other nerd bros over for counterstrike lan parties. It was pretty rad.
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I was surprised that one of my kids' NYC government school said the pledge. The other one didn't.
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I was surprised that one of my kids' NYC government school said the pledge. The other one didn't.
For or against?
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I was surprised that one of my kids' NYC government school said the pledge. The other one didn't.
For or against?
The fact that one said it was a bit of a surprise. Although there are some very conservative NYC neighborhoods and a bit of lingering patriotism because of 9/11 I think.
Columbus Day at our government schools is now "Indigenous Peoples/Italian Heritage Day".
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mumped around and found out(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/2acf384112306722fe2de19dee71f323.jpg)
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I mean, good on his black friend for trying to help his bro not get cancelled (while somehow not being super pissed at the racism). That dude is the real MVP.
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I think the friend helped make the sign as a joke but correctly identified that it shouldn't be posted to social media (*source is a caller on local radio)
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I think the friend helped make the sign as a joke but correctly identified that it shouldn't be posted to social media (*source is a caller on local radio)
That's a weird scenario but I am a white dude so can't really comment.
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I think the friend helped make the sign as a joke but correctly identified that it shouldn't be posted to social media (*source is a caller on local radio)
That's a weird scenario but I am a white dude so can't really comment.
As a black dude that has, he's going to look back at this with some regret. I let some "friends" in high school get by with, in retrospect, some incredibly racist crap. I was very naive and things aren't as heightened as they are now. That dude is just trying to fit in and not rock the boat.
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I was surprised that one of my kids' NYC government school said the pledge. The other one didn't.
For or against?
The fact that one said it was a bit of a surprise. Although there are some very conservative NYC neighborhoods and a bit of lingering patriotism because of 9/11 I think.
Columbus Day at our government schools is now "Indigenous Peoples/Italian Heritage Day".
I get Indigenous Peoples, but WTF with Italian Heritage Day?
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I think the friend helped make the sign as a joke but correctly identified that it shouldn't be posted to social media (*source is a caller on local radio)
That's a weird scenario but I am a white dude so can't really comment.
As a black dude that has, he's going to look back at this with some regret. I let some "friends" in high school get by with, in retrospect, some incredibly racist crap. I was very naive and things aren't as heightened as they are now. That dude is just trying to fit in and not rock the boat.
Yeah, I assume they play football together which probably made him a bit hesitant to tell guy to not pull that kind of crap.
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I was surprised that one of my kids' NYC government school said the pledge. The other one didn't.
For or against?
The fact that one said it was a bit of a surprise. Although there are some very conservative NYC neighborhoods and a bit of lingering patriotism because of 9/11 I think.
Columbus Day at our government schools is now "Indigenous Peoples/Italian Heritage Day".
I get Indigenous Peoples, but WTF with Italian Heritage Day?
it's to appease Italians upset about not having Columbus Day
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I think the friend helped make the sign as a joke but correctly identified that it shouldn't be posted to social media (*source is a caller on local radio)
That's a weird scenario but I am a white dude so can't really comment.
As a black dude that has, he's going to look back at this with some regret. I let some "friends" in high school get by with, in retrospect, some incredibly racist crap. I was very naive and things aren't as heightened as they are now. That dude is just trying to fit in and not rock the boat.
Yeah, I had situations like this when I was younger. One black acquaintance I would see at parties would love telling racist jokes and everyone thought it was hilarious. I obviously view it though a different lens now.
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I think the friend helped make the sign as a joke but correctly identified that it shouldn't be posted to social media (*source is a caller on local radio)
That's a weird scenario but I am a white dude so can't really comment.
As a black dude that has, he's going to look back at this with some regret. I let some "friends" in high school get by with, in retrospect, some incredibly racist crap. I was very naive and things aren't as heightened as they are now. That dude is just trying to fit in and not rock the boat.
Yeah, I had situations like this when I was younger. One black acquaintance I would see at parties would love telling racist jokes and everyone thought it was hilarious. I obviously view it though a different lens now.
I once went to a bar in Platte City. There was one Asian dude in there and a bunch of rednecks. They all called the guy Chink, he even introduced himself that way to the people that brought me there and myself. Needless to say I didn't than man that word and we all left 30 minutes later.