Anybody heard about this Rolling Stone UVA rape story controversy?

[Mr Bread]

Do you really think that a raper would pass on a possible rape because the potential rapee wasn't showing cleavage or wearing tight pants?  He can see a little titty and it's raping time.  Those tits are nice and covered, no thanks he'll pass. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you really think that a raper would pass on a possible rape because the potential rapee wasn't showing cleavage or wearing tight pants?  He can see a little titty and it's raping time.  Those tits are nice and covered, no thanks he'll pass.

no boners, no rape

know boners, know rape

[Dugout DickStone]

I can honestly say, in my fraternity, rape prevention was never on one of our meeting agendas.

Honestly? In-house risk management can be good to extremely poor depending upon the chapter. It was pretty good at ours at KSU - which, by the way, has a relatively well-managed and tame Greek system. These are 18-22yo males with often far too-little supervision. And college women also seem to be getting dumber and putting themselves in riskier situations when it comes to parties, dress, drugs, and alcohol. It terrifies the general fraternities. They're constantly trying to recruit alums to come in and provide guidance - especially risk management. Women and alcohol are literally lawsuits waiting to happen.

 

I know that's not a PC thing to say, but it is true. Don't be a PCtard. That doesn't mean scantily-dressed women deserve to be assaulted, and it doesn't reduce the culpability of the men involved, but it's still a stupid thing to do. Women are engaging in riskier behavior and it's a serious liability problem. National fraternities are clamping down more and more, as they should. I would bet you that most fraternities outlaw house parties within the next decade. Parties will be held at more easily monitored public venues, just like a number of fraternities already do now.

I mean...c'mon guy.

[star seed 7]

Do you really think that a raper would pass on a possible rape because the potential rapee wasn't showing cleavage or wearing tight pants?  He can see a little titty and it's raping time.  Those tits are nice and covered, no thanks he'll pass.

no boners, no rape

know boners, know rape

Lol

[DQ12]

i'm a little confused about who is going to have their reputation tarnished by this forever.  did the story use actual names of individuals?

The girl asked the Rolling Stone not to contact any of the fraternity bros or house, which should have put an end to the story. She only identified one guy as "Drew", and it turns out he isn't even a member of the frat.

Ah of course.  "Drew."  Yeah everyone knows "Drew" that goes to UVA.  "Drew" that goes to UVA...man his reputation is tarnished forever.

[star seed 7]

I have met a "drew" that went to ksu 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

i'm a little confused about who is going to have their reputation tarnished by this forever.  did the story use actual names of individuals?

The girl asked the Rolling Stone not to contact any of the fraternity bros or house, which should have put an end to the story. She only identified one guy as "Drew", and it turns out he isn't even a member of the frat.

Ah of course.  "Drew."  Yeah everyone knows "Drew" that goes to UVA.  "Drew" that goes to UVA...man his reputation is tarnished forever.

My point was they never should have identified the frat house just on her word. Poor journalism.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

[Dugout DickStone]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

Everyone knows to not wear yoga pants over there now.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

Everyone knows to not wear yoga pants over there now.

No rape, tho

[Dugout DickStone]

We gotta get some type of rape safe/rape attracting clothes manual.

[DQ12]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

And surely it's members' reputations will be forever tarnished.

I'm not saying RS didn't screw up in a catastrophic way, but lets tone it down just a tad.  A year from now, anyone who paid attention to this enough to remember that it was the phi psi house, will definitely remember the widely publicized retraction.

[ednksu]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

And surely it's members' reputations will be forever tarnished.

I'm not saying RS didn't screw up in a catastrophic way, but lets tone it down just a tad.  A year from now, anyone who paid attention to this enough to remember that it was the phi psi house, will definitely remember the widely publicized retraction.

But the women!  With their skirts and sexuality, they're practically asking for it! /KSUW

['taterblast]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

And surely it's members' reputations will be forever tarnished.

I'm not saying RS didn't screw up in a catastrophic way, but lets tone it down just a tad.  A year from now, anyone who paid attention to this enough to remember that it was the phi psi house, will definitely remember the widely publicized retraction.

i think "let's just tone it down a tad" is exactly what i was going for earlier ITT, but that was a fruitless endeavor

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

And surely it's members' reputations will be forever tarnished.

I'm not saying RS didn't screw up in a catastrophic way, but lets tone it down just a tad.  A year from now, anyone who paid attention to this enough to remember that it was the phi psi house, will definitely remember the widely publicized retraction.

If the RS had exhibited a modicum of candor or integrity in its reporting, you might have a point. Still yet, if it had exhibited the slightest bit of remorse for the damage it's recklessness caused the fraternity, it could be forgivable. None of that happened, which makes its actions malicious and unconscionable. In our society, that warrants harsh punishment.

Since its a corporation and not a person, we probably can't punish it though, because corporations can't do anything that's not corporate-y, by the silence of the constitution.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Great point, I'm sure nobody at uva knows who is in the phi psi house.

And surely it's members' reputations will be forever tarnished.

I'm not saying RS didn't screw up in a catastrophic way, but lets tone it down just a tad.  A year from now, anyone who paid attention to this enough to remember that it was the phi psi house, will definitely remember the widely publicized retraction.

That's not a strong defenses to a libel suit nor should it be. RS needs to be severely punished. This wasn't just negligent (and that's all that's required) it was reckless. The fraternity will have no problem proving damage and it may not even have to (rape accusation would seem to perfectly fit libel per se).

['taterblast]

do you guys get this fired up about actual rape when it happens? seriously.

['taterblast]

like, i'm not even sure if there's a Cosby thread around here, but i feel like you're going after RS ten times harder than you have Bill Cosby. why?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

do you guys get this fired up about actual rape when it happens? seriously.

You think an apology to the stained bed sheets is consequence enough for the convicted rapist, so what difference does it make?

['taterblast]

do you guys get this fired up about actual rape when it happens? seriously.

You think an apology to the stained bed sheets is consequence enough for the convicted rapist, so what difference does it make?

so, no?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

It's a long post, but worth a read if you're curious about the various legal hurdles the fraternity will face. Eugene Volokh is a very smart law professor. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/04/05/libel-law-and-the-rolling-stone-uva-alleged-gang-rape-story-an-update-in-light-of-the-columbia-school-of-journalism-report/

The toughest challenge the fraternity will face is whether the chapter and/or national fraternity can sue as a group, since it seems doubtful any individual was identified with enough specificty to stand on his own. But based on the law I've seen and what is cited by Volokh, I'd say there's a better than 50/50 chance that the fraternity will prevail on this point. That's because the allegations of a gang rape performed as part of some initiation defame a large portion of the chapter, and thereby defame all members of the chapter by implication.

The only thing I wish Volokh had addressed was "defamation per se." Under Virginia law, an allegation of "commission of some criminal offense involving moral turpitude" is defamation per se, which means that you don't have to show any damage at all.

[Institutional Control]

Jon Leibowitz's take.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/niqoe4/fact-ish

[DQ12]

I like volokh a lot, and I think he's right that no individual would have a case. But he kind of nonchalantly dubbed the fraternity a private figure.  I think that's a little suspect, and that designation is super important because it changes the negligence standard.

Even so, itll be interesting if they can prove damages to the fraternity itself.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

itll be interesting if they can prove damages to the fraternity itself.

The chapter or general? Chapter should be pretty easy, what with having to shut down and the vandalism. General may be tougher but I bet they could show a drop in fundraising with creative enough accounting. If this case gets to the damages element RS is eff'd.

I'm also not sure that the public/private figure distinction will matter much, since I think the judge will find a question of fact for the jury as to whether RS was reckless - not just negligent. Again, if this case goes to a jury RS is eff'd.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

If the frat asks for a jury trial, they should have a subsequent decent malpractice claim against their attorney. No rough ridin' way you're able to get a majority of people who aren't predisposed to hating fraternities.

The RS would be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) not to settle, there's no upside to defending what they did. They should just admit that they're a comic book and quit pretending to be journalists. That's actually probably their best defense in this matter.