not just missouri, best to avoid all cops

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

More sociopathy

[MakeItRain]

[CNS]

With reference to BLM, there are two main groups of individuals involved.  One is an organized, trained, group of ppl hired for a specific job and supervised to do that job.  The other group is a general group of society tied to each other by nothing more than skin color and culture.  I don't care who's side anyone falls on, the only reasonable solution is for the former to make necessary changes.  To expect the latter to make the changes would alter their rights to something less than other groups of society. 

I mean, there may be multiple issues at play here, and ppl may disagree as to what they all are, but the one that is indisputable is that cops need more training and their protocols need to be reviewed and alter accordingly.  That may not solve all the problem, but it's known and something we can address right now.  Why not do that why we are trying to unwind any other additional issues there may be?

To not proceed with that is to either close your eyes and say what's happening is acceptable or to admit that this is a money issue and that it's not monetarily worth trying to fix. Both are crap human being positions, fwiw.

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[sonofdaxjones]

Per WP:

Of 990 cop shootings in 2015 494 killed white people, 258 killed black people, 178 killed Hispanics.   So, white death by cop outpaced both black and Hispanic'/Latino combined in 2015 (yes I'm aware of the population %). 

The population of the U.S. in 2015:  approx 320 million, that works to an approximate 0.00000309375% chance of death by cop.

[CNS]

Guys, better training would benefit all those categories.  We don't need to play for the win when it comes to getting shot by cops


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[Emo EMAW]

There is a point where more training might yield diminishing returns or even net negative results.  The goal should be to reduce it to a minimum, but also realize that there is a minimum and nothing we can reasonably do is going to change that.

[star seed 7]

Well let's attempt the minimum then

[8manpick]

Per WP:

Of 990 cop shootings in 2015 494 killed white people, 258 killed black people, 178 killed Hispanics.

60% of violent criminals are white (incl Hispanic) and 36% are black (incl Hispanic) according to DOJ. Unclear how exactly Hispanic is broken up, but those numbers do correlate pretty well
www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/

[CNS]

I think there are still changes to be made.  Did you see how scared crap less that cop was in Minnesota?  I mean, that guy needs to be trained more.

How about the 911 call in Louisiana?   The call was about a waived gun, they show up and tackle a guy even though no gun is being waived, rather than one cop sitting on him while the other grabs the caller to confirm identity?  Again, some training or protocol changes could benefit that sitch. No?

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[MakeItRain]

With reference to BLM, there are two main groups of individuals involved.  One is an organized, trained, group of ppl hired for a specific job and supervised to do that job.  The other group is a general group of society tied to each other by nothing more than skin color and culture.  I don't care who's side anyone falls on, the only reasonable solution is for the former to make necessary changes.  To expect the latter to make the changes would alter their rights to something less than other groups of society. 

I mean, there may be multiple issues at play here, and ppl may disagree as to what they all are, but the one that is indisputable is that cops need more training and their protocols need to be reviewed and alter accordingly.  That may not solve all the problem, but it's known and something we can address right now.  Why not do that why we are trying to unwind any other additional issues there may be?

To not proceed with that is to either close your eyes and say what's happening is acceptable or to admit that this is a money issue and that it's not monetarily worth trying to fix. Both are crap human being positions, fwiw.

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Training isn't as important as proper vetting and being faced with actual repercussions when egregious errors cost innocent people their lives.

[Brock Landers]

I think there are still changes to be made.  Did you see how scared crap less that cop was in Minnesota?  I mean, that guy needs to be trained more.

How about the 911 call in Louisiana?   The call was about a waived gun, they show up and tackle a guy even though no gun is being waived, rather than one cop sitting on him while the other grabs the caller to confirm identity?  Again, some training or protocol changes could benefit that sitch. No?

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Honestly I don't think more training is going to help the Minnesota cop guy.  He just doesn't seem to be cut out for it.  He needs to either find a new career, or be a cop with a lesser role and no gun.  He can be one of those cops in the TV cop shows that just sits at a typewriter and types reports all day.

[CNS]

With reference to BLM, there are two main groups of individuals involved.  One is an organized, trained, group of ppl hired for a specific job and supervised to do that job.  The other group is a general group of society tied to each other by nothing more than skin color and culture.  I don't care who's side anyone falls on, the only reasonable solution is for the former to make necessary changes.  To expect the latter to make the changes would alter their rights to something less than other groups of society. 

I mean, there may be multiple issues at play here, and ppl may disagree as to what they all are, but the one that is indisputable is that cops need more training and their protocols need to be reviewed and alter accordingly.  That may not solve all the problem, but it's known and something we can address right now.  Why not do that why we are trying to unwind any other additional issues there may be?

To not proceed with that is to either close your eyes and say what's happening is acceptable or to admit that this is a money issue and that it's not monetarily worth trying to fix. Both are crap human being positions, fwiw.

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Training isn't as important as proper vetting and being faced with actual repercussions when egregious errors cost innocent people their lives.

More rigorous training would vet out applicants.  Of course those committing errors should be punished. 

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[420seriouscat69]

I think there are still changes to be made.  Did you see how scared crap less that cop was in Minnesota?  I mean, that guy needs to be trained more.

How about the 911 call in Louisiana?   The call was about a waived gun, they show up and tackle a guy even though no gun is being waived, rather than one cop sitting on him while the other grabs the caller to confirm identity?  Again, some training or protocol changes could benefit that sitch. No?

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Honestly I don't think more training is going to help the Minnesota cop guy.  He just doesn't seem to be cut out for it.  He needs to either find a new career, or be a cop with a lesser role and no gun.  He can be one of those cops in the TV cop shows that just sits at a typewriter and types reports all day.

He's going to prison, so I don't think he'll have to worry about it anymore.

[CNS]

Well see.

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[420seriouscat69]

That women is in prison now.

[420seriouscat69]

They were all awful acts this week, but that Minnesota killing is by far thee worst!

[steve dave]

Good on Newt

It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years, to get a sense of this: If you are a normal white American, the truth is you don't understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk. It is more dangerous to be black in America. It is more dangerous in that they are substantially more likely to end up in a situation where the police don't respect you and you could easily get killed. And sometimes for whites it's difficult to appreciate how real that is and how it's an everyday danger.

[CNS]

I absolutely love all the fb stories out there where the guy guys are explaining that all you have to do when pulled over while carrying is turn your gun over to the govt (cops) to avoid being shot, yet 1. The guy in Minnesota was shot before he could, and 2. Most of those gun guys have guns because they think the govt is coming for them.

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[Emo EMAW]

I absolutely love all the fb stories out there where the guy guys are explaining that all you have to do when pulled over while carrying is turn your gun over to the govt (cops) to avoid being shot, yet 1. The guy in Minnesota was shot before he could, and 2. Most of those gun guys have guns because they think the govt is coming for them.

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This is a pretty ignorant statement.

[catastrophe]

I don't necessarily have a problem with #BLM, but to me this whole deal isn't about blatant racism or even poor training (though I think it would help). It's a trust issue. Situations escalate quickly when each side thinks the other is out to get them. Distrust causes innocent people to act defensive and on edge which results in police officers acting more aggressively to protect themselves. I don't think BLM does anything to help that. It is important to keep police accountable, but the more people hear that cops are out to murder black people the less likely anything good will come of it.

[Asteriskhead]

I don't necessarily have a problem with #BLM, but to me this whole deal isn't about blatant racism or even poor training (though I think it would help). It's a trust issue. Situations escalate quickly when each side thinks the other is out to get them. Distrust causes innocent people to act defensive and on edge which results in police officers acting more aggressively to protect themselves. I don't think BLM does anything to help that. It is important to keep police accountable, but the more people hear that cops are out to murder black people the less likely anything good will come of it.

That's where the community outreach section of a police department is supposed to reach out to the leadership of the local segment of the Black Lives Matter movement and begin to rebuild that trust. We've back slid from a community based policing approach to what resembles a broken windows approach. There's data to show which method brings about that best results, it's not the latter.

[XocolateThundarr]

I absolutely love all the fb stories out there where the guy guys are explaining that all you have to do when pulled over while carrying is turn your gun over to the govt (cops) to avoid being shot, yet 1. The guy in Minnesota was shot before he could, and 2. Most of those gun guys have guns because they think the govt is coming for them.

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When I get pulled over, I grab my ID and CCL and in one hand and place both of my hands in sight on the edge of my window so the guy can see them.  When he approaches my window, I explain that I have a CCL and I have a weapon in my console.  I have never been asked to surrender the weapon and most generally they don't even say much about it.  That is in Kansas though.....

[stunted]

Those non Hispanic whites are some drunken idiots!

Asians is predictable. Prostitution and gambling.

Blacks...very predictable

[catastrophe]

I don't necessarily have a problem with #BLM, but to me this whole deal isn't about blatant racism or even poor training (though I think it would help). It's a trust issue. Situations escalate quickly when each side thinks the other is out to get them. Distrust causes innocent people to act defensive and on edge which results in police officers acting more aggressively to protect themselves. I don't think BLM does anything to help that. It is important to keep police accountable, but the more people hear that cops are out to murder black people the less likely anything good will come of it.

That's where the community outreach section of a police department is supposed to reach out to the leadership of the local segment of the Black Lives Matter movement and begin to rebuild that trust. We've back slid from a community based policing approach to what resembles a broken windows approach. There's data to show which method brings about that best results, it's not the latter.

But the problem is that national movements like BLM detract from a community based approach. Dallas has had one of the lowest instances of violence against police among all major cities, and there were no issues from the actual BLM protest. Still, you get someone willing to kill themselves in order to kill a few cops in that setting just because of outrage over stuff that happened hundreds of miles away.

[star seed 7]

I don't necessarily have a problem with #BLM, but to me this whole deal isn't about blatant racism or even poor training (though I think it would help). It's a trust issue. Situations escalate quickly when each side thinks the other is out to get them. Distrust causes innocent people to act defensive and on edge which results in police officers acting more aggressively to protect themselves. I don't think BLM does anything to help that. It is important to keep police accountable, but the more people hear that cops are out to murder black people the less likely anything good will come of it.

That's where the community outreach section of a police department is supposed to reach out to the leadership of the local segment of the Black Lives Matter movement and begin to rebuild that trust. We've back slid from a community based policing approach to what resembles a broken windows approach. There's data to show which method brings about that best results, it's not the latter.

But the problem is that national movements like BLM detract from a community based approach. Dallas has had one of the lowest instances of violence against police among all major cities, and there were no issues from the actual BLM protest. Still, you get someone willing to kill themselves in order to kill a few cops in that setting just because of outrage over stuff that happened hundreds of miles away.

yeah you totally missed the point