Author Topic: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops  (Read 181289 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #650 on: September 16, 2015, 12:46:44 PM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #651 on: September 16, 2015, 12:50:22 PM »
I can't tell if edn is a giant wuss ass or has an inferiority complex or he likes the taste of leather. All three?

so damn edgy


it's great being the most neutral, no bias, poster in the Pit.  really a fun time seeing how agenda drives people to ignore facts/logic/blatant issues with their own agenda. /sorry this isn't dunning it's questioning your beliefs

 :lol:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #652 on: September 16, 2015, 12:54:19 PM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit. 
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Offline SdK

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #653 on: September 16, 2015, 01:00:39 PM »
I can't tell if edn is a giant wuss ass or has an inferiority complex or he likes the taste of leather. All three?

so damn edgy


it's great being the most neutral, no bias, poster in the Pit.  really a fun time seeing how agenda drives people to ignore facts/logic/blatant issues with their own agenda. /sorry this isn't dunning it's questioning your beliefs
I was serious.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #654 on: September 16, 2015, 01:12:14 PM »
I can't tell if edn is a giant wuss ass or has an inferiority complex or he likes the taste of leather. All three?

so damn edgy


it's great being the most neutral, no bias, poster in the Pit.  really a fun time seeing how agenda drives people to ignore facts/logic/blatant issues with their own agenda. /sorry this isn't dunning it's questioning your beliefs

 :lol:

Better be careful. We don't know the 3 levels of force elevation. We might be entering "clean kill" territory.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #655 on: September 16, 2015, 07:02:29 PM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit.

You need to calm the eff down, you're cussing about the kermit meme, take yourself even more seriously.

Anyway, that post I asked you to address talks about how the cop approached the guy he beat up and the suspect wasn't the aggressor at all, you posted some barely coherent crap about someone going at someone else's face. So do you want to read meatsauce's post and try again or do you want to look stupid about something else? Personally I don't care, I'm entertained either way.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #656 on: September 16, 2015, 10:16:51 PM »
I think he is saying ignore the impartial witness and believe the cop or you are a liar.

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #657 on: September 17, 2015, 09:48:23 AM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit.

You need to calm the eff down, you're cussing about the kermit meme, take yourself even more seriously.

Anyway, that post I asked you to address talks about how the cop approached the guy he beat up and the suspect wasn't the aggressor at all, you posted some barely coherent crap about someone going at someone else's face. So do you want to read meatsauce's post and try again or do you want to look stupid about something else? Personally I don't care, I'm entertained either way.

Man you're going to have a tough time as an adult if you think people calling your bullshit position bullshit is hysteria. 

And I've talked about your point multiple times.  You can choose to ignore it, or read posts.  But judging by the discourse of the Pit you've made up your mind.  The fact is the witness testimony doesn't directly conflict with what the cop said, and it doesn't directly conflict with what the victim is claiming.  The author of the piece paints it one direction for sure. In fact if you read the poorly written account there is actually no way for the incident to occur the way its depicted without adding in steps.  All accounts pretty much agree the person was rushed by the cop and that a scuffle broke out.  The witness doesn't have any input on what was said as well.  Does the situation take on a radically different scenario if Barger says "Yes officer, I'll come peacefully, just let me put my kitten down" versus "eff you I'll kill you cop! You aren't taking me in alive!"  But lets get back to the conflicting statements.  How does one, with no steps in between, put someone in a head lock and and cause that kind of damage with elbow strikes?  Now we can infer what happened based on what we want to believe happened, which you all have done, but at this point we don't have enough info (my position all along) to really judge what happened here.  The emotional reaction you all have displayed here is why we need more body cams, more independent review, and more accountability for people tampering with evidence. 
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #658 on: September 17, 2015, 09:51:27 AM »
Nope, no way. Do you really think people read these novels when you type them? I sure as hell don't.

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #659 on: September 17, 2015, 09:53:10 AM »
I herped when I derped and should have tapped out
Better?
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #660 on: September 17, 2015, 10:14:28 AM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit.

You need to calm the eff down, you're cussing about the kermit meme, take yourself even more seriously.

Anyway, that post I asked you to address talks about how the cop approached the guy he beat up and the suspect wasn't the aggressor at all, you posted some barely coherent crap about someone going at someone else's face. So do you want to read meatsauce's post and try again or do you want to look stupid about something else? Personally I don't care, I'm entertained either way.

Man you're going to have a tough time as an adult if you think people calling your bullshit position bullshit is hysteria. 

And I've talked about your point multiple times.  You can choose to ignore it, or read posts.  But judging by the discourse of the Pit you've made up your mind.  The fact is the witness testimony doesn't directly conflict with what the cop said, and it doesn't directly conflict with what the victim is claiming.  The author of the piece paints it one direction for sure. In fact if you read the poorly written account there is actually no way for the incident to occur the way its depicted without adding in steps.  All accounts pretty much agree the person was rushed by the cop and that a scuffle broke out.  The witness doesn't have any input on what was said as well.  Does the situation take on a radically different scenario if Barger says "Yes officer, I'll come peacefully, just let me put my kitten down" versus "eff you I'll kill you cop! You aren't taking me in alive!"  But lets get back to the conflicting statements.  How does one, with no steps in between, put someone in a head lock and and cause that kind of damage with elbow strikes?  Now we can infer what happened based on what we want to believe happened, which you all have done, but at this point we don't have enough info (my position all along) to really judge what happened here.  The emotional reaction you all have displayed here is why we need more body cams, more independent review, and more accountability for people tampering with evidence.

I think the witness provided the "steps in between" when he stated that the cop charged the guy.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #661 on: September 17, 2015, 10:29:33 AM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit.

You need to calm the eff down, you're cussing about the kermit meme, take yourself even more seriously.

Anyway, that post I asked you to address talks about how the cop approached the guy he beat up and the suspect wasn't the aggressor at all, you posted some barely coherent crap about someone going at someone else's face. So do you want to read meatsauce's post and try again or do you want to look stupid about something else? Personally I don't care, I'm entertained either way.

Man you're going to have a tough time as an adult if you think people calling your bullshit position bullshit is hysteria. 

And I've talked about your point multiple times.  You can choose to ignore it, or read posts.  But judging by the discourse of the Pit you've made up your mind.  The fact is the witness testimony doesn't directly conflict with what the cop said, and it doesn't directly conflict with what the victim is claiming.  The author of the piece paints it one direction for sure. In fact if you read the poorly written account there is actually no way for the incident to occur the way its depicted without adding in steps.  All accounts pretty much agree the person was rushed by the cop and that a scuffle broke out.  The witness doesn't have any input on what was said as well.  Does the situation take on a radically different scenario if Barger says "Yes officer, I'll come peacefully, just let me put my kitten down" versus "eff you I'll kill you cop! You aren't taking me in alive!"  But lets get back to the conflicting statements.  How does one, with no steps in between, put someone in a head lock and and cause that kind of damage with elbow strikes?  Now we can infer what happened based on what we want to believe happened, which you all have done, but at this point we don't have enough info (my position all along) to really judge what happened here.  The emotional reaction you all have displayed here is why we need more body cams, more independent review, and more accountability for people tampering with evidence.

I think the witness provided the "steps in between" when he stated that the cop charged the guy.

Yeah, sounds like the steps that the cop took were pretty quick. And no matter what the guy said, if he didn't have a weapon or was within distance to use his body as a weapon then the cop had no reason to charge him.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #663 on: September 17, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit.

You need to calm the eff down, you're cussing about the kermit meme, take yourself even more seriously.

Anyway, that post I asked you to address talks about how the cop approached the guy he beat up and the suspect wasn't the aggressor at all, you posted some barely coherent crap about someone going at someone else's face. So do you want to read meatsauce's post and try again or do you want to look stupid about something else? Personally I don't care, I'm entertained either way.

Man you're going to have a tough time as an adult if you think people calling your bullshit position bullshit is hysteria. 

And I've talked about your point multiple times.  You can choose to ignore it, or read posts.  But judging by the discourse of the Pit you've made up your mind.  The fact is the witness testimony doesn't directly conflict with what the cop said, and it doesn't directly conflict with what the victim is claiming.  The author of the piece paints it one direction for sure. In fact if you read the poorly written account there is actually no way for the incident to occur the way its depicted without adding in steps.  All accounts pretty much agree the person was rushed by the cop and that a scuffle broke out.  The witness doesn't have any input on what was said as well.  Does the situation take on a radically different scenario if Barger says "Yes officer, I'll come peacefully, just let me put my kitten down" versus "eff you I'll kill you cop! You aren't taking me in alive!"  But lets get back to the conflicting statements.  How does one, with no steps in between, put someone in a head lock and and cause that kind of damage with elbow strikes?  Now we can infer what happened based on what we want to believe happened, which you all have done, but at this point we don't have enough info (my position all along) to really judge what happened here.  The emotional reaction you all have displayed here is why we need more body cams, more independent review, and more accountability for people tampering with evidence.

I think the witness provided the "steps in between" when he stated that the cop charged the guy.

Not in any way shape or form.  Both accounts agree the cop put hands on the guy. You're adding info to your narrative.

The worst part of all this bullshit you people are trapped into, is that you've missed the worst part of this story.  Why did the cop admit to pulling his gun?  That weapon should only be drawn to protect the lives of the officer or surrounding populace.  It is not a compliance tool.  Why did this situation get so out of control that the cop felt the need to use deadly force OR why did the cop use it so early as a compliance tool? 
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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #664 on: September 17, 2015, 10:49:16 AM »
my edn problem here is that he refuses to acknowledge a systemic/cultural problem with policing in america. of course it's possible to look at any single killing in a fishbowl and rationalize at least one hypothetical way it could have gone to be justified as a clean killtm.

Offline MeatSauce

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #665 on: September 17, 2015, 10:50:58 AM »
Why did this situation get so out of control that the cop felt the need to use deadly force OR why did the cop use it so early as a compliance tool? 

He probably drew his gun because he's the same guy who would also spend a couple minutes beating the crap out of a guy with his hands up.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 10:55:42 AM by MeatSauce »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #666 on: September 17, 2015, 10:56:11 AM »


Never been in a fight?  I mean just normal everyday response tells you that is a rough ridin' absurd.  If someone goes at your face you act with force to end the threat.

Don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit MiR.

I'm confused about why this is direted at me and why you're swearing
Umm that fact you're using a childish meme to make a point about a comment that was already diffused?  Yeah that's kinda bullshit.

You need to calm the eff down, you're cussing about the kermit meme, take yourself even more seriously.

Anyway, that post I asked you to address talks about how the cop approached the guy he beat up and the suspect wasn't the aggressor at all, you posted some barely coherent crap about someone going at someone else's face. So do you want to read meatsauce's post and try again or do you want to look stupid about something else? Personally I don't care, I'm entertained either way.

Man you're going to have a tough time as an adult if you think people calling your bullshit position bullshit is hysteria. 

And I've talked about your point multiple times.  You can choose to ignore it, or read posts.  But judging by the discourse of the Pit you've made up your mind.  The fact is the witness testimony doesn't directly conflict with what the cop said, and it doesn't directly conflict with what the victim is claiming.  The author of the piece paints it one direction for sure. In fact if you read the poorly written account there is actually no way for the incident to occur the way its depicted without adding in steps.  All accounts pretty much agree the person was rushed by the cop and that a scuffle broke out.  The witness doesn't have any input on what was said as well.  Does the situation take on a radically different scenario if Barger says "Yes officer, I'll come peacefully, just let me put my kitten down" versus "eff you I'll kill you cop! You aren't taking me in alive!"  But lets get back to the conflicting statements.  How does one, with no steps in between, put someone in a head lock and and cause that kind of damage with elbow strikes?  Now we can infer what happened based on what we want to believe happened, which you all have done, but at this point we don't have enough info (my position all along) to really judge what happened here.  The emotional reaction you all have displayed here is why we need more body cams, more independent review, and more accountability for people tampering with evidence.

I think the witness provided the "steps in between" when he stated that the cop charged the guy.

Not in any way shape or form.  Both accounts agree the cop put hands on the guy. You're adding info to your narrative.

The worst part of all this bullshit you people are trapped into, is that you've missed the worst part of this story.  Why did the cop admit to pulling his gun?  That weapon should only be drawn to protect the lives of the officer or surrounding populace.  It is not a compliance tool.  Why did this situation get so out of control that the cop felt the need to use deadly force OR why did the cop use it so early as a compliance tool?

It's a lot easier to get somebody into a headlock and beat the crap out of them if you get them to put their hands up first.

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #667 on: September 17, 2015, 10:58:45 AM »
sorry, edna, i didnt read your thing about cops should not use their guns as a compliance tool (which they do constantly) i agree with you on this and offer you my deepest and warmest positive reinforcement

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #668 on: September 17, 2015, 10:59:44 AM »
my edn problem here is that he refuses to acknowledge a systemic/cultural problem with policing in america. of course it's possible to look at any single killing in a fishbowl and rationalize at least one hypothetical way it could have gone to be justified as a clean killtm.

That is because we are seeing an epidemic of people rushing to a conclusion without any semblance of fact.  When someone questions the narrative you guys are constructing they are painted as a pro police violence fascist.  Rationalizing a killing is not the same as questioning the narrative certain groups are constructing.  Just the same way that you see the union rep protecting any cops at any cost, I see you people in the same light where you are removing facts that get in the way of what story you want to be told. You joke about a clean kill (which I don't think I've used here, please by all means quote me) because you don't want any taking of life by a cop to be justified. Me giving examples of how a shooting is justified or how levels of increased force are at play aren't an approval or disapproval of the morality of those scenarios.  Me correcting you on the bastardization of those facts also isn't my approval or disapproval.  It's me trying to get you guys to see that we've accepted a certain set of standards and "we" (society) need to first see if these cops have deviated from those standards.  Just like the Cincinnati shooting everyone failed to account for me saying it was in a gray area for the standards that "we" have adopted and instead only looked as my comments in the most ludicrous way possible, and now your narrative has another enemy and another catch phrase of "clean kill."   
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KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #669 on: September 17, 2015, 11:06:14 AM »
Cases where a police shooting might be justified:

An armed suspect points his weapon at somebody.

I honestly can't think of any others right now.


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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #670 on: September 17, 2015, 11:07:22 AM »
i'm going to blame the horrible search function for me not being able to find you registering the trademark for "clean kill"

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #671 on: September 17, 2015, 11:15:46 AM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

Sorry, edn. You said "clean shoot", not "clean kill". Everyone has been misquoting you, myself included.

Offline Tobias

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #672 on: September 17, 2015, 11:16:49 AM »
clean kill is better anyways

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #673 on: September 17, 2015, 11:17:14 AM »
clean kill is better anyways

it's practically his user name at this point

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #674 on: September 17, 2015, 11:17:25 AM »
Cases where a police shooting might be justified:

An armed suspect points his weapon at somebody.

I honestly can't think of any others right now.
Society disagrees
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

Also many states have this
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/2/9/D/9.42


And further what do you define as an armed suspect?

Not "armed" does this mean the cop shouldn't use deadly force?
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting